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Just a matter of time before all will be tinkerfanboys, i show you guys the light!
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Please, I was enjoying only being sad about one team I support for a while.
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On February 06 2015 11:20 FHDH wrote:
I mean, I was advocating for a coach a few months ago and I do agree every real team should have one. The need here is beyond question. If nothing else they need someone who can keep them balanced.
Me too, since a few months ago I am longing for some serious structure in the team.
"Coach + in game captain" would be best but I believe that "coach + drafter + in game plays caller" is better, because separating the three activities lighten the weight on every person and the amount of distrust can be quite different.
Also when someone is feeling down you will lose only a part of it instead of all. Think about it this way, if Goblak is not feeling ok, or even two players are not fully trusting him, his draft may go poor and his in game calls may not be answered right away or with the same attitude.
I don't know. I feel like in Dota there is so much room for improvement but the organizations are not dealing with it properly. I am not even sure if NaVi not practicing is all about the players, because we know how many times they were sent anywhere for publicity and sells. Maybe they don't practice on their own or maybe they could have been sent to Evergreen street to advertise.
EDIT: F**K, Secret lost. Now I feel we can only reach top 6... GOGOGO! Even if it is Secret, they have already lost once, you can do it!
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Agree, if esports is to be taken seriously they need to act like serious organizations too and become more prefessional
a coach and a 2nd coach would be a no brainer and training schedules, Team + Coach + Head Coach.
Watch replays, analize them, practice, come up with strategies, play to their strenghs, all of these are done by teams but a coach can bring a new set of eyes, a new cold head to analize plays and stuff. its pretty naive to think that the same 5 players can do so much, theres a reason every sports has coach and someone that review past games and plays
Teams says that "we do not practice", assuming its ture... wtf is that, how is that even possible
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On February 06 2015 21:21 Faruko wrote:
Agree, if esports is to be taken seriously they need to act like serious organizations too and become more prefessional
a coach and a 2nd coach would be a no brainer and training schedules, Team + Coach + Head Coach.
Watch replays, analize them, practice, come up with strategies, play to their strenghs, all of these are done by teams but a coach can bring a new set of eyes, a new cold head to analize plays and stuff. its pretty naive to think that the same 5 players can do so much, theres a reasonevery sports has coach and someone that review past games and plays
Teams says that "we do not practice", assuming its ture... wtf is that, how is that even possible
Teams don't practice because there is no pentalty for not doing so.
Orgas keep paying and hoping for the best even tough what the players do is considered a job.
Coach won't fix it because the mentality of the players hasn't reached the needed level i mean look at all the players like Singx2 ixmike fluffnstuff and all the tantrum babys for the past year... do you think any one with half a brain will keep such workers any where else?
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On February 06 2015 22:44 drusalnik wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2015 21:21 Faruko wrote:
Agree, if esports is to be taken seriously they need to act like serious organizations too and become more prefessional
a coach and a 2nd coach would be a no brainer and training schedules, Team + Coach + Head Coach.
Watch replays, analize them, practice, come up with strategies, play to their strenghs, all of these are done by teams but a coach can bring a new set of eyes, a new cold head to analize plays and stuff. its pretty naive to think that the same 5 players can do so much, theres a reasonevery sports has coach and someone that review past games and plays
Teams says that "we do not practice", assuming its ture... wtf is that, how is that even possible Teams don't practice because there is no pentalty for not doing so. Orgas keep paying and hoping for the best even tough what the players do is considered a job. Coach won't fix it because the mentality of the players hasn't reached the needed level i mean look at all the players like Singx2 ixmike fluffnstuff and all the tantrum babys for the past year... do you think any one with half a brain will keep such workers any where else?
But do you believe there should be some kind of penalty ? i mean, in most sports if you dont practice some drastic punishment has been taken (even terminate contract)
Do you think that if a team creates this kind of ecosystem (coach, practice, and all of that) could achieve something meaninful to create a "crack" in the scene ?
There are examples in sports
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On January 17 2015 23:34 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 22:51 Elyvilon wrote:On January 17 2015 22:33 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:00 NInoff wrote:On January 17 2015 19:38 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. Don't be mad, we all want to see some of them succeed but not all you want will happen. Well, I guess we can say the same for every CIS team at this point. Empire losing to NaVi at DAC, HR and PR getting eliminated right off the bat in SL11 (being them in the finals for DAC qualifier). Right now I feel like VP.P, Empire, HR and PR are all at the same level. Showing some badass performances here and sucking so bad there. Soo.... I don't know guys, if I were you I would not hop on the CIS rollercoaster this year and just enjoy Dota2 as much as you can without actually caring so much about who you cheer for. In my honest opinion, I didn't like EG because they were so emo and sad, NaVi is playing so bad with some sparks here and there, Fnatic is no more, C9 I don't know, I don't feel them so much, the other CIS teams I never cared a lot about. I began to enjoy TS because of Kuro and N0tail but after the rooster change I don't really appreciate them so much. So, I guess as much as I said, I will just enjoy N0tail's plays at C9, some chinese badass moves, and hope for Dendi and Funnik to get some love and find either better teammates or team. On January 17 2015 08:44 deadmau wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. the funny thing is you were the one who originally who held out hope that things were trending up for Na'Vi, and wanted to withhold judgement, when most people know they are clearly shit and have been for awhile. honestly i dunno how i can cheer for them without Puppey in there. He wasn't the star or anything, nothing crazy, but I felt like he embodied that team somewhat maybe due to him being the drafter/captain a lot. He was sort of their compass? Without someone to fill his shoes, and point them in a direction, just not fun to watch. Man, I don't know, Puppey was the face of NaVi for the successful period of time, as much as he was the face of failure, but not everyone wants to realize it. When you find your "favourite player" it is so hard to accept when he make mistakes and it is easier to blame other. When the meta changed and Ppy began to draft shit plus Xboct's feeding tendencies it is far easier to flame him instead of Ppy. But remember that even Ppy recognized his so called movements were off, so he is at least as guilty as the other 4 if not more (the weight of carrying his team to victory through draft is heavier than making magic happens by perfect execution with a losing composition). Xboct is the target for flame because he is the thrower and not Dendi the playmaker. Xboct is just polemic, think of it this way: As far as Dota's meta fit Xboct's playstyle he rocks and when not then he feeds, it is his playstyle, it is like expecting RTZ not to go emo after any stupid minimal thing, no sir that will never be so. After so much time we see Troll once again as a good carry and Xboct getting the best of him (just an exaggeration) and Dendi doing really good stuff on Magnus. Two games where they don't get any of those heroes and they play shit. Sometimes Puppey failed the team, but NaVi NEVER got humiliated. Now they feel the humiliation very very often. I mean Lets be honest, can you imagine NaVi getting stomped by MVP last year? Not to mention that this is going to be the first time for NaVi not getting the invite for TI, and it is not looking good for the qualifiers, i hope that they can get their things together. Yea, I agree, leaving players (former and current) aside. NaVi has never faced such position, and now they are always going further down, with some games/series showing a good overall performance. I am not defending anyone. I just wanted to state that people tends to strengthen their opinion (usually off the mark in my eyes) based on two separated events, even if those events are related to the topic. Making statements of the caliber "Xboct sucks and always sucked" is the same as "Ppy never sucked he is not to blame". Both made mistakes, same with Dendi and Kuro and Funnik. Time has passed, NaVi is not Ppy+Kuro+Funnik+Xboct+Dendi, we just need to stop comparing any rooster to its best rooster, its not the smartest thing to do. After this loss I guess ZG should make his move even if it means losing a TI5 invite. I find better for NaVi not to go to TI that getting rekt and humiliated. But "Sponsors" you know? It is always about that, so.... From the organization's and the player's perspective, it's certainly better to go to TI, even if your results aren't good. Also as for roster changes, who do you want to poach? With TI invites coming and Valve's absurdly vague standards for inviting, I suspect players don't want to risk losing an invite by leaving their teams, especially since it's not as if Navi's a lock for the invite, so you're left with attempting to recruit free agents or players on teams who aren't in the running for a slot(so no VPP, Empire, or HR players). Well, I think it will only get better for teams in general when Dota reaches a the state of: . Every team has a coach . Every team has more than one player for each role . The coaches have the ability to sit some and call some depending on their performances and playstyle/hero pool With this Dota's teams will expand their reach to a gross spectrum of possibilities, be it strategy, execution or even level of performance. Until then we are bound to cheer for players instead of teams and flame whoever seems guilty at the time. Given this, if I were ZG, I would hire hungry players and a coach, no one tied to NaVi in any way. Give him free pass to whatever he wants to try and if that turns into Xboct and Dendi leaving, so be it. Of course, given ZG's relation with Xboct and the risk of losing TI invite, that won't happen. I am speaking my mind, I don't have any connections to any player nor do I run a team, so I don't think ZG will think even 5% alike.
I quote myself. I think coaches can fix the problem if they are given enough resources. Players not practicing are present in every sport, and they are dealt with substitutes.
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On February 06 2015 23:53 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 23:34 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:51 Elyvilon wrote:On January 17 2015 22:33 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:00 NInoff wrote:On January 17 2015 19:38 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. Don't be mad, we all want to see some of them succeed but not all you want will happen. Well, I guess we can say the same for every CIS team at this point. Empire losing to NaVi at DAC, HR and PR getting eliminated right off the bat in SL11 (being them in the finals for DAC qualifier). Right now I feel like VP.P, Empire, HR and PR are all at the same level. Showing some badass performances here and sucking so bad there. Soo.... I don't know guys, if I were you I would not hop on the CIS rollercoaster this year and just enjoy Dota2 as much as you can without actually caring so much about who you cheer for. In my honest opinion, I didn't like EG because they were so emo and sad, NaVi is playing so bad with some sparks here and there, Fnatic is no more, C9 I don't know, I don't feel them so much, the other CIS teams I never cared a lot about. I began to enjoy TS because of Kuro and N0tail but after the rooster change I don't really appreciate them so much. So, I guess as much as I said, I will just enjoy N0tail's plays at C9, some chinese badass moves, and hope for Dendi and Funnik to get some love and find either better teammates or team. On January 17 2015 08:44 deadmau wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. the funny thing is you were the one who originally who held out hope that things were trending up for Na'Vi, and wanted to withhold judgement, when most people know they are clearly shit and have been for awhile. honestly i dunno how i can cheer for them without Puppey in there. He wasn't the star or anything, nothing crazy, but I felt like he embodied that team somewhat maybe due to him being the drafter/captain a lot. He was sort of their compass? Without someone to fill his shoes, and point them in a direction, just not fun to watch. Man, I don't know, Puppey was the face of NaVi for the successful period of time, as much as he was the face of failure, but not everyone wants to realize it. When you find your "favourite player" it is so hard to accept when he make mistakes and it is easier to blame other. When the meta changed and Ppy began to draft shit plus Xboct's feeding tendencies it is far easier to flame him instead of Ppy. But remember that even Ppy recognized his so called movements were off, so he is at least as guilty as the other 4 if not more (the weight of carrying his team to victory through draft is heavier than making magic happens by perfect execution with a losing composition). Xboct is the target for flame because he is the thrower and not Dendi the playmaker. Xboct is just polemic, think of it this way: As far as Dota's meta fit Xboct's playstyle he rocks and when not then he feeds, it is his playstyle, it is like expecting RTZ not to go emo after any stupid minimal thing, no sir that will never be so. After so much time we see Troll once again as a good carry and Xboct getting the best of him (just an exaggeration) and Dendi doing really good stuff on Magnus. Two games where they don't get any of those heroes and they play shit. Sometimes Puppey failed the team, but NaVi NEVER got humiliated. Now they feel the humiliation very very often. I mean Lets be honest, can you imagine NaVi getting stomped by MVP last year? Not to mention that this is going to be the first time for NaVi not getting the invite for TI, and it is not looking good for the qualifiers, i hope that they can get their things together. Yea, I agree, leaving players (former and current) aside. NaVi has never faced such position, and now they are always going further down, with some games/series showing a good overall performance. I am not defending anyone. I just wanted to state that people tends to strengthen their opinion (usually off the mark in my eyes) based on two separated events, even if those events are related to the topic. Making statements of the caliber "Xboct sucks and always sucked" is the same as "Ppy never sucked he is not to blame". Both made mistakes, same with Dendi and Kuro and Funnik. Time has passed, NaVi is not Ppy+Kuro+Funnik+Xboct+Dendi, we just need to stop comparing any rooster to its best rooster, its not the smartest thing to do. After this loss I guess ZG should make his move even if it means losing a TI5 invite. I find better for NaVi not to go to TI that getting rekt and humiliated. But "Sponsors" you know? It is always about that, so.... From the organization's and the player's perspective, it's certainly better to go to TI, even if your results aren't good. Also as for roster changes, who do you want to poach? With TI invites coming and Valve's absurdly vague standards for inviting, I suspect players don't want to risk losing an invite by leaving their teams, especially since it's not as if Navi's a lock for the invite, so you're left with attempting to recruit free agents or players on teams who aren't in the running for a slot(so no VPP, Empire, or HR players). Well, I think it will only get better for teams in general when Dota reaches a the state of: . Every team has a coach . Every team has more than one player for each role . The coaches have the ability to sit some and call some depending on their performances and playstyle/hero pool With this Dota's teams will expand their reach to a gross spectrum of possibilities, be it strategy, execution or even level of performance. Until then we are bound to cheer for players instead of teams and flame whoever seems guilty at the time. Given this, if I were ZG, I would hire hungry players and a coach, no one tied to NaVi in any way. Give him free pass to whatever he wants to try and if that turns into Xboct and Dendi leaving, so be it. Of course, given ZG's relation with Xboct and the risk of losing TI invite, that won't happen. I am speaking my mind, I don't have any connections to any player nor do I run a team, so I don't think ZG will think even 5% alike. I quote myself. I think coaches can fix the problem if they are given enough resources. Players not practicing are present in every sport, and they are dealt with substitutes.
This
"you dont practice ? well, there are 100 others like you waiting for a chance" (unless your name is Messi or Ronaldo :p)
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On February 06 2015 23:55 Faruko wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2015 23:53 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 23:34 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:51 Elyvilon wrote:On January 17 2015 22:33 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:00 NInoff wrote:On January 17 2015 19:38 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. Don't be mad, we all want to see some of them succeed but not all you want will happen. Well, I guess we can say the same for every CIS team at this point. Empire losing to NaVi at DAC, HR and PR getting eliminated right off the bat in SL11 (being them in the finals for DAC qualifier). Right now I feel like VP.P, Empire, HR and PR are all at the same level. Showing some badass performances here and sucking so bad there. Soo.... I don't know guys, if I were you I would not hop on the CIS rollercoaster this year and just enjoy Dota2 as much as you can without actually caring so much about who you cheer for. In my honest opinion, I didn't like EG because they were so emo and sad, NaVi is playing so bad with some sparks here and there, Fnatic is no more, C9 I don't know, I don't feel them so much, the other CIS teams I never cared a lot about. I began to enjoy TS because of Kuro and N0tail but after the rooster change I don't really appreciate them so much. So, I guess as much as I said, I will just enjoy N0tail's plays at C9, some chinese badass moves, and hope for Dendi and Funnik to get some love and find either better teammates or team. On January 17 2015 08:44 deadmau wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. the funny thing is you were the one who originally who held out hope that things were trending up for Na'Vi, and wanted to withhold judgement, when most people know they are clearly shit and have been for awhile. honestly i dunno how i can cheer for them without Puppey in there. He wasn't the star or anything, nothing crazy, but I felt like he embodied that team somewhat maybe due to him being the drafter/captain a lot. He was sort of their compass? Without someone to fill his shoes, and point them in a direction, just not fun to watch. Man, I don't know, Puppey was the face of NaVi for the successful period of time, as much as he was the face of failure, but not everyone wants to realize it. When you find your "favourite player" it is so hard to accept when he make mistakes and it is easier to blame other. When the meta changed and Ppy began to draft shit plus Xboct's feeding tendencies it is far easier to flame him instead of Ppy. But remember that even Ppy recognized his so called movements were off, so he is at least as guilty as the other 4 if not more (the weight of carrying his team to victory through draft is heavier than making magic happens by perfect execution with a losing composition). Xboct is the target for flame because he is the thrower and not Dendi the playmaker. Xboct is just polemic, think of it this way: As far as Dota's meta fit Xboct's playstyle he rocks and when not then he feeds, it is his playstyle, it is like expecting RTZ not to go emo after any stupid minimal thing, no sir that will never be so. After so much time we see Troll once again as a good carry and Xboct getting the best of him (just an exaggeration) and Dendi doing really good stuff on Magnus. Two games where they don't get any of those heroes and they play shit. Sometimes Puppey failed the team, but NaVi NEVER got humiliated. Now they feel the humiliation very very often. I mean Lets be honest, can you imagine NaVi getting stomped by MVP last year? Not to mention that this is going to be the first time for NaVi not getting the invite for TI, and it is not looking good for the qualifiers, i hope that they can get their things together. Yea, I agree, leaving players (former and current) aside. NaVi has never faced such position, and now they are always going further down, with some games/series showing a good overall performance. I am not defending anyone. I just wanted to state that people tends to strengthen their opinion (usually off the mark in my eyes) based on two separated events, even if those events are related to the topic. Making statements of the caliber "Xboct sucks and always sucked" is the same as "Ppy never sucked he is not to blame". Both made mistakes, same with Dendi and Kuro and Funnik. Time has passed, NaVi is not Ppy+Kuro+Funnik+Xboct+Dendi, we just need to stop comparing any rooster to its best rooster, its not the smartest thing to do. After this loss I guess ZG should make his move even if it means losing a TI5 invite. I find better for NaVi not to go to TI that getting rekt and humiliated. But "Sponsors" you know? It is always about that, so.... From the organization's and the player's perspective, it's certainly better to go to TI, even if your results aren't good. Also as for roster changes, who do you want to poach? With TI invites coming and Valve's absurdly vague standards for inviting, I suspect players don't want to risk losing an invite by leaving their teams, especially since it's not as if Navi's a lock for the invite, so you're left with attempting to recruit free agents or players on teams who aren't in the running for a slot(so no VPP, Empire, or HR players). Well, I think it will only get better for teams in general when Dota reaches a the state of: . Every team has a coach . Every team has more than one player for each role . The coaches have the ability to sit some and call some depending on their performances and playstyle/hero pool With this Dota's teams will expand their reach to a gross spectrum of possibilities, be it strategy, execution or even level of performance. Until then we are bound to cheer for players instead of teams and flame whoever seems guilty at the time. Given this, if I were ZG, I would hire hungry players and a coach, no one tied to NaVi in any way. Give him free pass to whatever he wants to try and if that turns into Xboct and Dendi leaving, so be it. Of course, given ZG's relation with Xboct and the risk of losing TI invite, that won't happen. I am speaking my mind, I don't have any connections to any player nor do I run a team, so I don't think ZG will think even 5% alike. I quote myself. I think coaches can fix the problem if they are given enough resources. Players not practicing are present in every sport, and they are dealt with substitutes. This "you dont practice ? well, there are 100 others like you waiting for a chance" (unless your name is Messi or Ronaldo :p)
Heheheh, poor guys those subs...
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On February 06 2015 23:55 Faruko wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2015 23:53 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 23:34 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:51 Elyvilon wrote:On January 17 2015 22:33 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:00 NInoff wrote:On January 17 2015 19:38 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. Don't be mad, we all want to see some of them succeed but not all you want will happen. Well, I guess we can say the same for every CIS team at this point. Empire losing to NaVi at DAC, HR and PR getting eliminated right off the bat in SL11 (being them in the finals for DAC qualifier). Right now I feel like VP.P, Empire, HR and PR are all at the same level. Showing some badass performances here and sucking so bad there. Soo.... I don't know guys, if I were you I would not hop on the CIS rollercoaster this year and just enjoy Dota2 as much as you can without actually caring so much about who you cheer for. In my honest opinion, I didn't like EG because they were so emo and sad, NaVi is playing so bad with some sparks here and there, Fnatic is no more, C9 I don't know, I don't feel them so much, the other CIS teams I never cared a lot about. I began to enjoy TS because of Kuro and N0tail but after the rooster change I don't really appreciate them so much. So, I guess as much as I said, I will just enjoy N0tail's plays at C9, some chinese badass moves, and hope for Dendi and Funnik to get some love and find either better teammates or team. On January 17 2015 08:44 deadmau wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. the funny thing is you were the one who originally who held out hope that things were trending up for Na'Vi, and wanted to withhold judgement, when most people know they are clearly shit and have been for awhile. honestly i dunno how i can cheer for them without Puppey in there. He wasn't the star or anything, nothing crazy, but I felt like he embodied that team somewhat maybe due to him being the drafter/captain a lot. He was sort of their compass? Without someone to fill his shoes, and point them in a direction, just not fun to watch. Man, I don't know, Puppey was the face of NaVi for the successful period of time, as much as he was the face of failure, but not everyone wants to realize it. When you find your "favourite player" it is so hard to accept when he make mistakes and it is easier to blame other. When the meta changed and Ppy began to draft shit plus Xboct's feeding tendencies it is far easier to flame him instead of Ppy. But remember that even Ppy recognized his so called movements were off, so he is at least as guilty as the other 4 if not more (the weight of carrying his team to victory through draft is heavier than making magic happens by perfect execution with a losing composition). Xboct is the target for flame because he is the thrower and not Dendi the playmaker. Xboct is just polemic, think of it this way: As far as Dota's meta fit Xboct's playstyle he rocks and when not then he feeds, it is his playstyle, it is like expecting RTZ not to go emo after any stupid minimal thing, no sir that will never be so. After so much time we see Troll once again as a good carry and Xboct getting the best of him (just an exaggeration) and Dendi doing really good stuff on Magnus. Two games where they don't get any of those heroes and they play shit. Sometimes Puppey failed the team, but NaVi NEVER got humiliated. Now they feel the humiliation very very often. I mean Lets be honest, can you imagine NaVi getting stomped by MVP last year? Not to mention that this is going to be the first time for NaVi not getting the invite for TI, and it is not looking good for the qualifiers, i hope that they can get their things together. Yea, I agree, leaving players (former and current) aside. NaVi has never faced such position, and now they are always going further down, with some games/series showing a good overall performance. I am not defending anyone. I just wanted to state that people tends to strengthen their opinion (usually off the mark in my eyes) based on two separated events, even if those events are related to the topic. Making statements of the caliber "Xboct sucks and always sucked" is the same as "Ppy never sucked he is not to blame". Both made mistakes, same with Dendi and Kuro and Funnik. Time has passed, NaVi is not Ppy+Kuro+Funnik+Xboct+Dendi, we just need to stop comparing any rooster to its best rooster, its not the smartest thing to do. After this loss I guess ZG should make his move even if it means losing a TI5 invite. I find better for NaVi not to go to TI that getting rekt and humiliated. But "Sponsors" you know? It is always about that, so.... From the organization's and the player's perspective, it's certainly better to go to TI, even if your results aren't good. Also as for roster changes, who do you want to poach? With TI invites coming and Valve's absurdly vague standards for inviting, I suspect players don't want to risk losing an invite by leaving their teams, especially since it's not as if Navi's a lock for the invite, so you're left with attempting to recruit free agents or players on teams who aren't in the running for a slot(so no VPP, Empire, or HR players). Well, I think it will only get better for teams in general when Dota reaches a the state of: . Every team has a coach . Every team has more than one player for each role . The coaches have the ability to sit some and call some depending on their performances and playstyle/hero pool With this Dota's teams will expand their reach to a gross spectrum of possibilities, be it strategy, execution or even level of performance. Until then we are bound to cheer for players instead of teams and flame whoever seems guilty at the time. Given this, if I were ZG, I would hire hungry players and a coach, no one tied to NaVi in any way. Give him free pass to whatever he wants to try and if that turns into Xboct and Dendi leaving, so be it. Of course, given ZG's relation with Xboct and the risk of losing TI invite, that won't happen. I am speaking my mind, I don't have any connections to any player nor do I run a team, so I don't think ZG will think even 5% alike. I quote myself. I think coaches can fix the problem if they are given enough resources. Players not practicing are present in every sport, and they are dealt with substitutes. This "you dont practice ? well, there are 100 others like you waiting for a chance" (unless your name is Messi or Ronaldo :p)
Here is your problem.
The dota scene is way to small for a thing like this.
"Do you practice? No , well there 100 like you waiting for a chance" the reality is there are really not that many people outside the pro scene who can play on that level the pro scene consists of around 150-200players spread across all tiers of teams everything else is just fun and games for the rest.
It is baffeling tough because the amount of money put in to dota2 are not justified by the numbers of pro's playing the game at all.
Coaches can fix the problem to some degree but i don't see them been as valuable as coaches like football,basketball,tennis and so on and so forth at least not in the next year or two.
And the worst thing is people bet on personalitys even retardet ones like Singx2 or ixmike with hes virgin stache and so on and not on skill/dedication and so on and untill there are players like those in the scene coaches will never work.
Take Mario Balloteli for example fenomenal player but a moron in its own right got major contracts but after a while the team decided to stop putting up with hes moronic behavior so he went from a championship team to a struggling Milan and he will probably end hes career preaty soon cause of hes behavior cause people managers coaches no one tolerates a idiot except the e-sport community it seems, because and i qoute " HES FUN YELLING FUCK THEM IN THE P*SSY" or similar things like those or rage kids like Idra and what not.
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>that just happened
reshuffle incoming? yes or sure?
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On January 30 2015 15:42 bagels21 wrote:
what the hell happened to funnik and who is this imposter
relevant
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my only wish that happens after this DAC is that this team doesn't steal players from Empire , VPP and HR
All of them are in a good spot right now. I'd rather have this team die than steal another player from the growing teams who are doing well for a meantime.(even if they are inconsistent they are in a good spot)
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Maybe this TI will be the first without inviting a previous winner? All of the former champions haven't done well recently...
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On February 07 2015 01:46 cbk486 wrote:
Maybe this TI will be the first without inviting a previous winner? All of the former champions haven't done well recently...
maybe
well there is still a chance for newbee to get their shit together and stop playing wc3 rpgs although it's highly unlikely
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Russian Federation3333 Posts
Na'Vi imploded in spectacular fashion against HGT. GGWP for the tournament boys~
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On February 07 2015 01:14 drusalnik wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2015 23:55 Faruko wrote:On February 06 2015 23:53 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 23:34 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:51 Elyvilon wrote:On January 17 2015 22:33 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:00 NInoff wrote:On January 17 2015 19:38 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. Don't be mad, we all want to see some of them succeed but not all you want will happen. Well, I guess we can say the same for every CIS team at this point. Empire losing to NaVi at DAC, HR and PR getting eliminated right off the bat in SL11 (being them in the finals for DAC qualifier). Right now I feel like VP.P, Empire, HR and PR are all at the same level. Showing some badass performances here and sucking so bad there. Soo.... I don't know guys, if I were you I would not hop on the CIS rollercoaster this year and just enjoy Dota2 as much as you can without actually caring so much about who you cheer for. In my honest opinion, I didn't like EG because they were so emo and sad, NaVi is playing so bad with some sparks here and there, Fnatic is no more, C9 I don't know, I don't feel them so much, the other CIS teams I never cared a lot about. I began to enjoy TS because of Kuro and N0tail but after the rooster change I don't really appreciate them so much. So, I guess as much as I said, I will just enjoy N0tail's plays at C9, some chinese badass moves, and hope for Dendi and Funnik to get some love and find either better teammates or team. On January 17 2015 08:44 deadmau wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. the funny thing is you were the one who originally who held out hope that things were trending up for Na'Vi, and wanted to withhold judgement, when most people know they are clearly shit and have been for awhile. honestly i dunno how i can cheer for them without Puppey in there. He wasn't the star or anything, nothing crazy, but I felt like he embodied that team somewhat maybe due to him being the drafter/captain a lot. He was sort of their compass? Without someone to fill his shoes, and point them in a direction, just not fun to watch. Man, I don't know, Puppey was the face of NaVi for the successful period of time, as much as he was the face of failure, but not everyone wants to realize it. When you find your "favourite player" it is so hard to accept when he make mistakes and it is easier to blame other. When the meta changed and Ppy began to draft shit plus Xboct's feeding tendencies it is far easier to flame him instead of Ppy. But remember that even Ppy recognized his so called movements were off, so he is at least as guilty as the other 4 if not more (the weight of carrying his team to victory through draft is heavier than making magic happens by perfect execution with a losing composition). Xboct is the target for flame because he is the thrower and not Dendi the playmaker. Xboct is just polemic, think of it this way: As far as Dota's meta fit Xboct's playstyle he rocks and when not then he feeds, it is his playstyle, it is like expecting RTZ not to go emo after any stupid minimal thing, no sir that will never be so. After so much time we see Troll once again as a good carry and Xboct getting the best of him (just an exaggeration) and Dendi doing really good stuff on Magnus. Two games where they don't get any of those heroes and they play shit. Sometimes Puppey failed the team, but NaVi NEVER got humiliated. Now they feel the humiliation very very often. I mean Lets be honest, can you imagine NaVi getting stomped by MVP last year? Not to mention that this is going to be the first time for NaVi not getting the invite for TI, and it is not looking good for the qualifiers, i hope that they can get their things together. Yea, I agree, leaving players (former and current) aside. NaVi has never faced such position, and now they are always going further down, with some games/series showing a good overall performance. I am not defending anyone. I just wanted to state that people tends to strengthen their opinion (usually off the mark in my eyes) based on two separated events, even if those events are related to the topic. Making statements of the caliber "Xboct sucks and always sucked" is the same as "Ppy never sucked he is not to blame". Both made mistakes, same with Dendi and Kuro and Funnik. Time has passed, NaVi is not Ppy+Kuro+Funnik+Xboct+Dendi, we just need to stop comparing any rooster to its best rooster, its not the smartest thing to do. After this loss I guess ZG should make his move even if it means losing a TI5 invite. I find better for NaVi not to go to TI that getting rekt and humiliated. But "Sponsors" you know? It is always about that, so.... From the organization's and the player's perspective, it's certainly better to go to TI, even if your results aren't good. Also as for roster changes, who do you want to poach? With TI invites coming and Valve's absurdly vague standards for inviting, I suspect players don't want to risk losing an invite by leaving their teams, especially since it's not as if Navi's a lock for the invite, so you're left with attempting to recruit free agents or players on teams who aren't in the running for a slot(so no VPP, Empire, or HR players). Well, I think it will only get better for teams in general when Dota reaches a the state of: . Every team has a coach . Every team has more than one player for each role . The coaches have the ability to sit some and call some depending on their performances and playstyle/hero pool With this Dota's teams will expand their reach to a gross spectrum of possibilities, be it strategy, execution or even level of performance. Until then we are bound to cheer for players instead of teams and flame whoever seems guilty at the time. Given this, if I were ZG, I would hire hungry players and a coach, no one tied to NaVi in any way. Give him free pass to whatever he wants to try and if that turns into Xboct and Dendi leaving, so be it. Of course, given ZG's relation with Xboct and the risk of losing TI invite, that won't happen. I am speaking my mind, I don't have any connections to any player nor do I run a team, so I don't think ZG will think even 5% alike. I quote myself. I think coaches can fix the problem if they are given enough resources. Players not practicing are present in every sport, and they are dealt with substitutes. This "you dont practice ? well, there are 100 others like you waiting for a chance" (unless your name is Messi or Ronaldo :p) Here is your problem. The dota scene is way to small for a thing like this. "Do you practice? No , well there 100 like you waiting for a chance" the reality is there are really not that many people outside the pro scene who can play on that level the pro scene consists of around 150-200players spread across all tiers of teams everything else is just fun and games for the rest. It is baffeling tough because the amount of money put in to dota2 are not justified by the numbers of pro's playing the game at all. Coaches can fix the problem to some degree but i don't see them been as valuable as coaches like football,basketball,tennis and so on and so forth at least not in the next year or two. And the worst thing is people bet on personalitys even retardet ones like Singx2 or ixmike with hes virgin stache and so on and not on skill/dedication and so on and untill there are players like those in the scene coaches will never work. Take Mario Balloteli for example fenomenal player but a moron in its own right got major contracts but after a while the team decided to stop putting up with hes moronic behavior so he went from a championship team to a struggling Milan and he will probably end hes career preaty soon cause of hes behavior cause people managers coaches no one tolerates a idiot except the e-sport community it seems, because and i qoute " HES FUN YELLING FUCK THEM IN THE P*SSY" or similar things like those or rage kids like Idra and what not.
Idra got kicked of his team for his behavior.
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On February 07 2015 03:04 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 01:14 drusalnik wrote:On February 06 2015 23:55 Faruko wrote:On February 06 2015 23:53 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 23:34 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:51 Elyvilon wrote:On January 17 2015 22:33 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:00 NInoff wrote:On January 17 2015 19:38 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. Don't be mad, we all want to see some of them succeed but not all you want will happen. Well, I guess we can say the same for every CIS team at this point. Empire losing to NaVi at DAC, HR and PR getting eliminated right off the bat in SL11 (being them in the finals for DAC qualifier). Right now I feel like VP.P, Empire, HR and PR are all at the same level. Showing some badass performances here and sucking so bad there. Soo.... I don't know guys, if I were you I would not hop on the CIS rollercoaster this year and just enjoy Dota2 as much as you can without actually caring so much about who you cheer for. In my honest opinion, I didn't like EG because they were so emo and sad, NaVi is playing so bad with some sparks here and there, Fnatic is no more, C9 I don't know, I don't feel them so much, the other CIS teams I never cared a lot about. I began to enjoy TS because of Kuro and N0tail but after the rooster change I don't really appreciate them so much. So, I guess as much as I said, I will just enjoy N0tail's plays at C9, some chinese badass moves, and hope for Dendi and Funnik to get some love and find either better teammates or team. On January 17 2015 08:44 deadmau wrote:
[quote]
the funny thing is you were the one who originally who held out hope that things were trending up for Na'Vi, and wanted to withhold judgement, when most people know they are clearly shit and have been for awhile. honestly i dunno how i can cheer for them without Puppey in there. He wasn't the star or anything, nothing crazy, but I felt like he embodied that team somewhat maybe due to him being the drafter/captain a lot. He was sort of their compass? Without someone to fill his shoes, and point them in a direction, just not fun to watch. Man, I don't know, Puppey was the face of NaVi for the successful period of time, as much as he was the face of failure, but not everyone wants to realize it. When you find your "favourite player" it is so hard to accept when he make mistakes and it is easier to blame other. When the meta changed and Ppy began to draft shit plus Xboct's feeding tendencies it is far easier to flame him instead of Ppy. But remember that even Ppy recognized his so called movements were off, so he is at least as guilty as the other 4 if not more (the weight of carrying his team to victory through draft is heavier than making magic happens by perfect execution with a losing composition). Xboct is the target for flame because he is the thrower and not Dendi the playmaker. Xboct is just polemic, think of it this way: As far as Dota's meta fit Xboct's playstyle he rocks and when not then he feeds, it is his playstyle, it is like expecting RTZ not to go emo after any stupid minimal thing, no sir that will never be so. After so much time we see Troll once again as a good carry and Xboct getting the best of him (just an exaggeration) and Dendi doing really good stuff on Magnus. Two games where they don't get any of those heroes and they play shit. Sometimes Puppey failed the team, but NaVi NEVER got humiliated. Now they feel the humiliation very very often. I mean Lets be honest, can you imagine NaVi getting stomped by MVP last year? Not to mention that this is going to be the first time for NaVi not getting the invite for TI, and it is not looking good for the qualifiers, i hope that they can get their things together. Yea, I agree, leaving players (former and current) aside. NaVi has never faced such position, and now they are always going further down, with some games/series showing a good overall performance. I am not defending anyone. I just wanted to state that people tends to strengthen their opinion (usually off the mark in my eyes) based on two separated events, even if those events are related to the topic. Making statements of the caliber "Xboct sucks and always sucked" is the same as "Ppy never sucked he is not to blame". Both made mistakes, same with Dendi and Kuro and Funnik. Time has passed, NaVi is not Ppy+Kuro+Funnik+Xboct+Dendi, we just need to stop comparing any rooster to its best rooster, its not the smartest thing to do. After this loss I guess ZG should make his move even if it means losing a TI5 invite. I find better for NaVi not to go to TI that getting rekt and humiliated. But "Sponsors" you know? It is always about that, so.... From the organization's and the player's perspective, it's certainly better to go to TI, even if your results aren't good. Also as for roster changes, who do you want to poach? With TI invites coming and Valve's absurdly vague standards for inviting, I suspect players don't want to risk losing an invite by leaving their teams, especially since it's not as if Navi's a lock for the invite, so you're left with attempting to recruit free agents or players on teams who aren't in the running for a slot(so no VPP, Empire, or HR players). Well, I think it will only get better for teams in general when Dota reaches a the state of: . Every team has a coach . Every team has more than one player for each role . The coaches have the ability to sit some and call some depending on their performances and playstyle/hero pool With this Dota's teams will expand their reach to a gross spectrum of possibilities, be it strategy, execution or even level of performance. Until then we are bound to cheer for players instead of teams and flame whoever seems guilty at the time. Given this, if I were ZG, I would hire hungry players and a coach, no one tied to NaVi in any way. Give him free pass to whatever he wants to try and if that turns into Xboct and Dendi leaving, so be it. Of course, given ZG's relation with Xboct and the risk of losing TI invite, that won't happen. I am speaking my mind, I don't have any connections to any player nor do I run a team, so I don't think ZG will think even 5% alike. I quote myself. I think coaches can fix the problem if they are given enough resources. Players not practicing are present in every sport, and they are dealt with substitutes. This "you dont practice ? well, there are 100 others like you waiting for a chance" (unless your name is Messi or Ronaldo :p) Here is your problem. The dota scene is way to small for a thing like this. "Do you practice? No , well there 100 like you waiting for a chance" the reality is there are really not that many people outside the pro scene who can play on that level the pro scene consists of around 150-200players spread across all tiers of teams everything else is just fun and games for the rest. It is baffeling tough because the amount of money put in to dota2 are not justified by the numbers of pro's playing the game at all. Coaches can fix the problem to some degree but i don't see them been as valuable as coaches like football,basketball,tennis and so on and so forth at least not in the next year or two. And the worst thing is people bet on personalitys even retardet ones like Singx2 or ixmike with hes virgin stache and so on and not on skill/dedication and so on and untill there are players like those in the scene coaches will never work. Take Mario Balloteli for example fenomenal player but a moron in its own right got major contracts but after a while the team decided to stop putting up with hes moronic behavior so he went from a championship team to a struggling Milan and he will probably end hes career preaty soon cause of hes behavior cause people managers coaches no one tolerates a idiot except the e-sport community it seems, because and i qoute " HES FUN YELLING FUCK THEM IN THE P*SSY" or similar things like those or rage kids like Idra and what not. Idra got kicked of his team for his behavior.
Well he is kinda right about it, idra is the exception to the rule
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On February 07 2015 03:14 Faruko wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 03:04 Racket wrote:On February 07 2015 01:14 drusalnik wrote:On February 06 2015 23:55 Faruko wrote:On February 06 2015 23:53 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 23:34 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:51 Elyvilon wrote:On January 17 2015 22:33 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:00 NInoff wrote:On January 17 2015 19:38 Racket wrote:
[quote]
Don't be mad, we all want to see some of them succeed but not all you want will happen.
Well, I guess we can say the same for every CIS team at this point. Empire losing to NaVi at DAC, HR and PR getting eliminated right off the bat in SL11 (being them in the finals for DAC qualifier).
Right now I feel like VP.P, Empire, HR and PR are all at the same level. Showing some badass performances here and sucking so bad there. Soo.... I don't know guys, if I were you I would not hop on the CIS rollercoaster this year and just enjoy Dota2 as much as you can without actually caring so much about who you cheer for.
In my honest opinion, I didn't like EG because they were so emo and sad, NaVi is playing so bad with some sparks here and there, Fnatic is no more, C9 I don't know, I don't feel them so much, the other CIS teams I never cared a lot about. I began to enjoy TS because of Kuro and N0tail but after the rooster change I don't really appreciate them so much.
So, I guess as much as I said, I will just enjoy N0tail's plays at C9, some chinese badass moves, and hope for Dendi and Funnik to get some love and find either better teammates or team.
[quote]
Man, I don't know, Puppey was the face of NaVi for the successful period of time, as much as he was the face of failure, but not everyone wants to realize it. When you find your "favourite player" it is so hard to accept when he make mistakes and it is easier to blame other. When the meta changed and Ppy began to draft shit plus Xboct's feeding tendencies it is far easier to flame him instead of Ppy. But remember that even Ppy recognized his so called movements were off, so he is at least as guilty as the other 4 if not more (the weight of carrying his team to victory through draft is heavier than making magic happens by perfect execution with a losing composition).
Xboct is the target for flame because he is the thrower and not Dendi the playmaker. Xboct is just polemic, think of it this way:
As far as Dota's meta fit Xboct's playstyle he rocks and when not then he feeds, it is his playstyle, it is like expecting RTZ not to go emo after any stupid minimal thing, no sir that will never be so.
After so much time we see Troll once again as a good carry and Xboct getting the best of him (just an exaggeration) and Dendi doing really good stuff on Magnus. Two games where they don't get any of those heroes and they play shit.
Sometimes Puppey failed the team, but NaVi NEVER got humiliated. Now they feel the humiliation very very often. I mean Lets be honest, can you imagine NaVi getting stomped by MVP last year? Not to mention that this is going to be the first time for NaVi not getting the invite for TI, and it is not looking good for the qualifiers, i hope that they can get their things together. Yea, I agree, leaving players (former and current) aside. NaVi has never faced such position, and now they are always going further down, with some games/series showing a good overall performance. I am not defending anyone. I just wanted to state that people tends to strengthen their opinion (usually off the mark in my eyes) based on two separated events, even if those events are related to the topic. Making statements of the caliber "Xboct sucks and always sucked" is the same as "Ppy never sucked he is not to blame". Both made mistakes, same with Dendi and Kuro and Funnik. Time has passed, NaVi is not Ppy+Kuro+Funnik+Xboct+Dendi, we just need to stop comparing any rooster to its best rooster, its not the smartest thing to do. After this loss I guess ZG should make his move even if it means losing a TI5 invite. I find better for NaVi not to go to TI that getting rekt and humiliated. But "Sponsors" you know? It is always about that, so.... From the organization's and the player's perspective, it's certainly better to go to TI, even if your results aren't good. Also as for roster changes, who do you want to poach? With TI invites coming and Valve's absurdly vague standards for inviting, I suspect players don't want to risk losing an invite by leaving their teams, especially since it's not as if Navi's a lock for the invite, so you're left with attempting to recruit free agents or players on teams who aren't in the running for a slot(so no VPP, Empire, or HR players). Well, I think it will only get better for teams in general when Dota reaches a the state of: . Every team has a coach . Every team has more than one player for each role . The coaches have the ability to sit some and call some depending on their performances and playstyle/hero pool With this Dota's teams will expand their reach to a gross spectrum of possibilities, be it strategy, execution or even level of performance. Until then we are bound to cheer for players instead of teams and flame whoever seems guilty at the time. Given this, if I were ZG, I would hire hungry players and a coach, no one tied to NaVi in any way. Give him free pass to whatever he wants to try and if that turns into Xboct and Dendi leaving, so be it. Of course, given ZG's relation with Xboct and the risk of losing TI invite, that won't happen. I am speaking my mind, I don't have any connections to any player nor do I run a team, so I don't think ZG will think even 5% alike. I quote myself. I think coaches can fix the problem if they are given enough resources. Players not practicing are present in every sport, and they are dealt with substitutes. This "you dont practice ? well, there are 100 others like you waiting for a chance" (unless your name is Messi or Ronaldo :p) Here is your problem. The dota scene is way to small for a thing like this. "Do you practice? No , well there 100 like you waiting for a chance" the reality is there are really not that many people outside the pro scene who can play on that level the pro scene consists of around 150-200players spread across all tiers of teams everything else is just fun and games for the rest. It is baffeling tough because the amount of money put in to dota2 are not justified by the numbers of pro's playing the game at all. Coaches can fix the problem to some degree but i don't see them been as valuable as coaches like football,basketball,tennis and so on and so forth at least not in the next year or two. And the worst thing is people bet on personalitys even retardet ones like Singx2 or ixmike with hes virgin stache and so on and not on skill/dedication and so on and untill there are players like those in the scene coaches will never work. Take Mario Balloteli for example fenomenal player but a moron in its own right got major contracts but after a while the team decided to stop putting up with hes moronic behavior so he went from a championship team to a struggling Milan and he will probably end hes career preaty soon cause of hes behavior cause people managers coaches no one tolerates a idiot except the e-sport community it seems, because and i qoute " HES FUN YELLING FUCK THEM IN THE P*SSY" or similar things like those or rage kids like Idra and what not. Idra got kicked of his team for his behavior. Well he is kinda right about it, idra is the exception to the rule
that was kinda different though ,, idra was toxic on everybody
he was like shitting for the reasons shitting people
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Russian Federation3333 Posts
On February 07 2015 00:11 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2015 23:55 Faruko wrote:On February 06 2015 23:53 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 23:34 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:51 Elyvilon wrote:On January 17 2015 22:33 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 22:00 NInoff wrote:On January 17 2015 19:38 Racket wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. Don't be mad, we all want to see some of them succeed but not all you want will happen. Well, I guess we can say the same for every CIS team at this point. Empire losing to NaVi at DAC, HR and PR getting eliminated right off the bat in SL11 (being them in the finals for DAC qualifier). Right now I feel like VP.P, Empire, HR and PR are all at the same level. Showing some badass performances here and sucking so bad there. Soo.... I don't know guys, if I were you I would not hop on the CIS rollercoaster this year and just enjoy Dota2 as much as you can without actually caring so much about who you cheer for. In my honest opinion, I didn't like EG because they were so emo and sad, NaVi is playing so bad with some sparks here and there, Fnatic is no more, C9 I don't know, I don't feel them so much, the other CIS teams I never cared a lot about. I began to enjoy TS because of Kuro and N0tail but after the rooster change I don't really appreciate them so much. So, I guess as much as I said, I will just enjoy N0tail's plays at C9, some chinese badass moves, and hope for Dendi and Funnik to get some love and find either better teammates or team. On January 17 2015 08:44 deadmau wrote:On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote:
Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol.
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. the funny thing is you were the one who originally who held out hope that things were trending up for Na'Vi, and wanted to withhold judgement, when most people know they are clearly shit and have been for awhile. honestly i dunno how i can cheer for them without Puppey in there. He wasn't the star or anything, nothing crazy, but I felt like he embodied that team somewhat maybe due to him being the drafter/captain a lot. He was sort of their compass? Without someone to fill his shoes, and point them in a direction, just not fun to watch. Man, I don't know, Puppey was the face of NaVi for the successful period of time, as much as he was the face of failure, but not everyone wants to realize it. When you find your "favourite player" it is so hard to accept when he make mistakes and it is easier to blame other. When the meta changed and Ppy began to draft shit plus Xboct's feeding tendencies it is far easier to flame him instead of Ppy. But remember that even Ppy recognized his so called movements were off, so he is at least as guilty as the other 4 if not more (the weight of carrying his team to victory through draft is heavier than making magic happens by perfect execution with a losing composition). Xboct is the target for flame because he is the thrower and not Dendi the playmaker. Xboct is just polemic, think of it this way: As far as Dota's meta fit Xboct's playstyle he rocks and when not then he feeds, it is his playstyle, it is like expecting RTZ not to go emo after any stupid minimal thing, no sir that will never be so. After so much time we see Troll once again as a good carry and Xboct getting the best of him (just an exaggeration) and Dendi doing really good stuff on Magnus. Two games where they don't get any of those heroes and they play shit. Sometimes Puppey failed the team, but NaVi NEVER got humiliated. Now they feel the humiliation very very often. I mean Lets be honest, can you imagine NaVi getting stomped by MVP last year? Not to mention that this is going to be the first time for NaVi not getting the invite for TI, and it is not looking good for the qualifiers, i hope that they can get their things together. Yea, I agree, leaving players (former and current) aside. NaVi has never faced such position, and now they are always going further down, with some games/series showing a good overall performance. I am not defending anyone. I just wanted to state that people tends to strengthen their opinion (usually off the mark in my eyes) based on two separated events, even if those events are related to the topic. Making statements of the caliber "Xboct sucks and always sucked" is the same as "Ppy never sucked he is not to blame". Both made mistakes, same with Dendi and Kuro and Funnik. Time has passed, NaVi is not Ppy+Kuro+Funnik+Xboct+Dendi, we just need to stop comparing any rooster to its best rooster, its not the smartest thing to do. After this loss I guess ZG should make his move even if it means losing a TI5 invite. I find better for NaVi not to go to TI that getting rekt and humiliated. But "Sponsors" you know? It is always about that, so.... From the organization's and the player's perspective, it's certainly better to go to TI, even if your results aren't good. Also as for roster changes, who do you want to poach? With TI invites coming and Valve's absurdly vague standards for inviting, I suspect players don't want to risk losing an invite by leaving their teams, especially since it's not as if Navi's a lock for the invite, so you're left with attempting to recruit free agents or players on teams who aren't in the running for a slot(so no VPP, Empire, or HR players). Well, I think it will only get better for teams in general when Dota reaches a the state of: . Every team has a coach . Every team has more than one player for each role . The coaches have the ability to sit some and call some depending on their performances and playstyle/hero pool With this Dota's teams will expand their reach to a gross spectrum of possibilities, be it strategy, execution or even level of performance. Until then we are bound to cheer for players instead of teams and flame whoever seems guilty at the time. Given this, if I were ZG, I would hire hungry players and a coach, no one tied to NaVi in any way. Give him free pass to whatever he wants to try and if that turns into Xboct and Dendi leaving, so be it. Of course, given ZG's relation with Xboct and the risk of losing TI invite, that won't happen. I am speaking my mind, I don't have any connections to any player nor do I run a team, so I don't think ZG will think even 5% alike. I quote myself. I think coaches can fix the problem if they are given enough resources. Players not practicing are present in every sport, and they are dealt with substitutes. This "you dont practice ? well, there are 100 others like you waiting for a chance" (unless your name is Messi or Ronaldo :p) Heheheh, poor guys those subs...
Actually Ronaldo is one of the most driven players ever... Allen Iverson on the other hand... we gonna talk about practice?
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EPT
