EPTI would've picked Bristle because he would've faired better against Luna in lane, he can get pick offs with Io thanks to the fact that he slows people to a crawl and no one except QoP has anything to get away from that and deals A LOT of damage with Warpath stacks, Bristle has good teamfight presence because of his constant quill spray, and the fact that he is really fucking hard to kill - If he had been on Na'Vi and the game had dragged on like it did VG wouldn't have had nearly enough consistent DPS to kill him without wasting all their resources on him which would've resulted in Anti-Mage and Lina blowing everyone up.
Na`Vi Discussion - Page 126
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druk_qs
Venezuela44 Posts
I would've picked Bristle because he would've faired better against Luna in lane, he can get pick offs with Io thanks to the fact that he slows people to a crawl and no one except QoP has anything to get away from that and deals A LOT of damage with Warpath stacks, Bristle has good teamfight presence because of his constant quill spray, and the fact that he is really fucking hard to kill - If he had been on Na'Vi and the game had dragged on like it did VG wouldn't have had nearly enough consistent DPS to kill him without wasting all their resources on him which would've resulted in Anti-Mage and Lina blowing everyone up. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On August 04 2015 20:44 Faruko wrote: Thats it how ? Alliance are still a thing and they didnt even get to the playoffs of the qualifiers I just woke up, will watch the game later (dont know when exactly  ) but considering the time prior to TI5, its more than enough  Doesn't mean Alliance haven't made changes or won't completely revamp their roster though. I think basically every team will, Na'Vi probably no exception. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34173 Posts
On August 04 2015 22:06 StarVe wrote: Doesn't mean Alliance haven't made changes or won't completely revamp their roster though. I think basically every team will, Na'Vi probably no exception. "thats it for NaVi" = disband = team gets rid of Dota 2 team =/= NaVi doing roster changes. People tend to forget that the organizations are above the players For the record, i was just about to write that changes are coming and theres little anyone could do about it If you ask me, theres a player i wanted on NaVi since last year... Resolut1on, i would even go to try Dendi for carry. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On August 04 2015 22:27 Faruko wrote: "thats it for NaVi" = disband = team gets rid of Dota 2 team =/= NaVi doing roster changes. People tend to forget that the organizations are above the players For the record, i was just about to write that changes are coming and theres little anyone could do about it If you ask me, theres a player i wanted on NaVi since last year... Resolut1on, i would even go to try Dendi for carry. I would rather put Dendi offlane or maybe even support. | ||
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BlueSpace
Germany2182 Posts
On August 04 2015 21:49 druk_qs wrote: But that's the thing - Their draft was focused TOO much around getting pick offs, they couldn't fall back on a plan B in case A didn't work because they didn't have one, it was that or die. I would've picked Bristle because he would've faired better against Luna in lane, he can get pick offs with Io thanks to the fact that he slows people to a crawl and no one except QoP has anything to get away from that and deals A LOT of damage with Warpath stacks, Bristle has good teamfight presence because of his constant quill spray, and the fact that he is really fucking hard to kill - If he had been on Na'Vi and the game had dragged on like it did VG wouldn't have had nearly enough consistent DPS to kill him without wasting all their resources on him which would've resulted in Anti-Mage and Lina blowing everyone up. Plan B was to split-push, which Xbot did fairly well. He wasn't perfect, but he kept highest net worth for quite some time (the whole time?) and made it very hard for VG to actually push high ground. The biggest "mistake" during that was when he escaped using a BKB charge. That probably wouldn't have mattered against lesser teams, but Vici immediately took Rosh as a result. Bristle is good at chasing, but also he has to walk around fissures... So no, he wouldn't have been able to just run down people at will. Also what do you mean by a lack of consistent DPS? They had presence of the dark lord, lunar blessing and three ranged cores... On top of that both SF and Luna can incorporate shadow blades in their builds. Bristle would have been better as Tusk late game, but VG would still have had the better late-lategame. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
Although I like all of them and wish them the best, it seems to me like a step that's worth evaluating. At this point what I'd honestly love to see the most is the players who have been doubted and declared washed up try to step up in a completely different team environment and prove that they've still got the talent and motivation it takes to thrive in today's strong Dota scene to all fans and doubters alike, and maybe prove it to themselves, too. I don't know if Na'Vi are willing to break with everything just because of the still existent marketing value of the old team, but I'd find it understandable if they were taking the chance at forming a potentially winning team again that's not weighed down by previous successes or failures, only possibly by the brand name itself. Dear Post-TI Shuffle. Please deliver. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34173 Posts
Sonneiko its stupidly good and really really young, you keep it too, he is also universally loved so he can get into navi marketing also. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
If there ever truly were attitude problems this finish ought to have humbled them enough that it might change. If not, all the better. I think a radical environment change with completely different teammates and a different captain they'd have to take orders from might benefit them all, no matter who has done what and whose fault this and that was. I'd love to know if they could adjust more to a patch or to a different playstyle with a different team/captain and without that Na'Vi legacy and burden. Though it might backfire and they'd all go full LightofHeaven burnout mode. That'd be unfortunate. I can't say how it would go, but it's what I'd like to see. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
Also they need to learn to deal with naga and split push. | ||
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zdfgucker
China594 Posts
On August 05 2015 01:39 DucK- wrote: I think the squad is perfectly fine as it is. They need more tournaments together, and work on the stupid little mistakes like artstyle random feeds. Also they need to learn to deal with naga and split push. That has been said for way too long. This lineup sucks and it's not just the supports that are lacking. Dendi or Xboct need to go too. | ||
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clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On August 04 2015 20:58 Racket wrote: That is right. Picking on ArtStyle for that mistake makes no sense, he is still the only captain that actually worked for NaVi over the past year if not two years. How did Artstyle work, he didn't even manage to bring Na'Vi on the level they were on before the old squad disbanded. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On August 05 2015 01:43 zdfgucker wrote: That has been said for way too long. This lineup sucks and it's not just the supports that are lacking. Dendi or Xboct need to go too. You need to go, you suck. On August 05 2015 01:48 clusen wrote: How did Artstyle work, he didn't even manage to bring Na'Vi on the level they were on before the old squad disbanded. So you are saying that the last period with Ppy and Kky was better than this? Either my or your memory is not working properly, maybe as intended but not properly. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On August 05 2015 01:43 zdfgucker wrote: That has been said for way too long. This lineup sucks and it's not just the supports that are lacking. Dendi or Xboct need to go too. If I'm not wrong, TI was only their 2nd LAN tournament with the full squad. | ||
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caiovigg
Brazil1802 Posts
On August 05 2015 02:07 Racket wrote: You need to go, you suck. So you are saying that the last period with Ppy and Kky was better than this? Either my or your memory is not working properly, maybe as intended but not properly. Navi was much better last TI compared to this one. Last year they were bad, but at least they got an invite and finished top 10. This year they had to go to the qualifiers and finished last place about artstyle: He is not a good player, but he is the only one who can captain dendi and/or xboct. IMO, navi should kick the player who don't accept a new captain, even if its their oldest players, and kick artstyle as well. Maybe if they start fresh with only sonneiko they can bring FNG back, and now they have a good drafter/captain and a solid support. Finding 3 decent cores in CIS region shouldn't be hard, and they are navi, they can get any player they want. | ||
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clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On August 05 2015 02:07 Racket wrote: So you are saying that the last period with Ppy and Kky was better than this? Either my or your memory is not working properly, maybe as intended but not properly. Yeah, I actually do. It's a perception thing, in the last year under ppy they slowly detoriated until they imploded, while they improved a lot when Artstyle joined. The same kind of performance that would make someone happy under Artstyle (it's so much better than before!) would have disappointed the same person probably under ppy(they can play so much better...) They were still one of the top teams leading up to TI4, just not as good as EG (who they lost to in most tournaments), and people expected more than top 6 at TI. | ||
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Alcor
Italy137 Posts
http://watch.navi-gaming.com/en/videos/42057562, i think xboct and funnik will quit, or take a pause, while dendi arstyle and sonneinko could build a good team, because they seem to have the motivation to keep going on | ||
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Faruko
Chile34173 Posts
On August 05 2015 02:38 clusen wrote: Yeah, I actually do. It's a perception thing, in the last year under ppy they slowly detoriated until they imploded, while they improved a lot when Artstyle joined. The same kind of performance that would make someone happy under Artstyle (it's so much better than before!) would have disappointed the same person probably under ppy(they can play so much better...) They were still one of the top teams leading up to TI4, just not as good as EG (who they lost to in most tournaments), and people expected more than top 6 at TI. Im pretty sure NaVi leading to TI4 was pretty bad, they somehow had a decent run at TI, thats all... Pretty much like in this TI but with lowered expectations, nobody gave 2 cents about them making it into TI, yet they did. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On August 05 2015 02:38 clusen wrote: Yeah, I actually do. It's a perception thing, in the last year under ppy they slowly detoriated until they imploded, while they improved a lot when Artstyle joined. The same kind of performance that would make someone happy under Artstyle (it's so much better than before!) would have disappointed the same person probably under ppy(they can play so much better...) They were still one of the top teams leading up to TI4, just not as good as EG (who they lost to in most tournaments), and people expected more than top 6 at TI. TI4 was as disastrous as this TI, they positioned better but their performance was crap. Every team in this TI is way better than the worst team at TI4. Even ending up last in their group NaVi looked promising, if they could find the missing part in their game plan. They did not look promising at all at TI4, and the thing is at TI4 no one had a clear idea of what the hell was happening with the patch until the end of the group stages. Newbee got it and ended up winning. I understand your point about feeling happy and disappointed, you are right but that iteration had 18 months running and the atmosphere was terrible, this iteration is four months old with only two tournaments backing them, I can't demand more, I would be stupid. | ||
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caiovigg
Brazil1802 Posts
On August 05 2015 02:56 Alcor wrote: from what i heard in the various interviews, expecially xboct' one and this one http://watch.navi-gaming.com/en/videos/42057562, i think xboct and funnik will quit, or take a pause, while dendi arstyle and sonneinko could build a good team, because they seem to have the motivation to keep going on I have the motivation to play on a pro team, but Im just a 4k scrub. They REALLY should kick artstyle. | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On August 05 2015 04:23 Racket wrote: TI4 was as disastrous as this TI, they positioned better but their performance was crap. Every team in this TI is way better than the worst team at TI4. Even ending up last in their group NaVi looked promising, if they could find the missing part in their game plan. They did not look promising at all at TI4, and the thing is at TI4 no one had a clear idea of what the hell was happening with the patch until the end of the group stages. Newbee got it and ended up winning. I understand your point about feeling happy and disappointed, you are right but that iteration had 18 months running and the atmosphere was terrible, this iteration is four months old with only two tournaments backing them, I can't demand more, I would be stupid. Second this. | ||
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