On August 07 2015 08:40 Piledriver wrote: Also I guess I'm a bit mollified about the performance of C9, seeing that Secret has fallen pretty hard as well. I think the Euro meta as a whole has been demolished against the 5 man fighting meta of the Chinese. Both Secret and C9 suffered from the inability to adapt to the meta mid-tournament.
That's Team Empires thing though...
#1 for me is just choking. VP are not as good as secret, yet puppey, S4 and kuro were no where to be seen that series.
I don't think its choking, other teams brought a better attitude and teamspirit, whereas C9 had internal issues, and Secret admittedly weren't even scrimming, since they felt scrims are useless.
Source on the not scrimming thing? Thats actually beyond retarded they deserve to lose.
Also idk I think its choking as previously EU teams have had success in other tournaments, like Marsdotatv league where the top 3 teams were EU in a tournament on chinese soil.
On August 07 2015 08:40 Piledriver wrote: Also I guess I'm a bit mollified about the performance of C9, seeing that Secret has fallen pretty hard as well. I think the Euro meta as a whole has been demolished against the 5 man fighting meta of the Chinese. Both Secret and C9 suffered from the inability to adapt to the meta mid-tournament.
That's Team Empires thing though...
#1 for me is just choking. VP are not as good as secret, yet puppey, S4 and kuro were no where to be seen that series.
I don't think its choking, other teams brought a better attitude and teamspirit, whereas C9 had internal issues, and Secret admittedly weren't even scrimming, since they felt scrims are useless.
Source on the not scrimming thing? Thats actually beyond retarded they deserve to lose.
Also idk I think its choking as previously EU teams have had success in other tournaments, like Marsdotatv league where the top 3 teams were EU in a tournament on chinese soil.
Interview with arteezy. The relevant part is at 9 minutes 52 seconds, where Hotbid asks Arteezy about Secret's lack of scrimming.
On August 07 2015 08:40 Piledriver wrote: Also I guess I'm a bit mollified about the performance of C9, seeing that Secret has fallen pretty hard as well. I think the Euro meta as a whole has been demolished against the 5 man fighting meta of the Chinese. Both Secret and C9 suffered from the inability to adapt to the meta mid-tournament.
That's Team Empires thing though...
#1 for me is just choking. VP are not as good as secret, yet puppey, S4 and kuro were no where to be seen that series.
I don't think its choking, other teams brought a better attitude and teamspirit, whereas C9 had internal issues, and Secret admittedly weren't even scrimming, since they felt scrims are useless.
Source on the not scrimming thing? Thats actually beyond retarded they deserve to lose.
Also idk I think its choking as previously EU teams have had success in other tournaments, like Marsdotatv league where the top 3 teams were EU in a tournament on chinese soil.
^ and also didn't zai say in his interview something like: Scrims bore me. When we scrim I don't care and sometimes just start feeding? I didn't see the interview myself so take my quote with a grain of salt. Edit: Doesn't matter in the end it's not the Secret Thread I for one would love to see ArtEEzy
On August 07 2015 08:40 Piledriver wrote: Also I guess I'm a bit mollified about the performance of C9, seeing that Secret has fallen pretty hard as well. I think the Euro meta as a whole has been demolished against the 5 man fighting meta of the Chinese. Both Secret and C9 suffered from the inability to adapt to the meta mid-tournament.
That's Team Empires thing though...
#1 for me is just choking. VP are not as good as secret, yet puppey, S4 and kuro were no where to be seen that series.
I don't think its choking, other teams brought a better attitude and teamspirit, whereas C9 had internal issues, and Secret admittedly weren't even scrimming, since they felt scrims are useless.
Source on the not scrimming thing? Thats actually beyond retarded they deserve to lose.
Also idk I think its choking as previously EU teams have had success in other tournaments, like Marsdotatv league where the top 3 teams were EU in a tournament on chinese soil.
^ and also didn't zai say in his interview something like: Scrims bore me. When we scrim I don't care and sometimes just start feeding? I didn't see the interview myself so take my quote with a grain of salt. Edit: Doesn't matter in the end it's not the Secret Thread I for one would love to see ArtEEzy
Nah, I was just discussing about the fall of European dota in general. The success of Col, EG and Chinese teams and the relative failures of C9 and Secret seem to point in that general direction.
Just hypothetically speaking: Could a S4 pickup be good for them? Kick Bone or take him as a coach. Rotate Fata on the offlane and S4 mid? His playing at TI aside he could be a good captain/drafter who maybe becomes a free agent in the near future.
On August 07 2015 09:58 TheNewEra wrote: Just hypothetically speaking: Could a S4 pickup be good for them? Kick Bone or take him as a coach. Rotate Fata on the offlane and S4 mid? His playing at TI aside he could be a good captain/drafter who maybe becomes a free agent in the near future.
Who knows. It depends on EE's and s4's relationship. EE always speaks very highly of s4 but I don't have any idea of what s4 thinks. But if Secret ends up breaking up some c9 players getting involved in a shuffle with them is very likely. Not necessarily s4 "joining" the current c9 but rather both teams somewhat breaking up and new teams being formed.
EE and rtz have had a bromance since forever. It's pretty premature to be talking about the great shuffle, but I would not be surprised to see the two together if Secret implodes.
s4 is possible but it's gonna be either s4 or rtz, not both. My money's on ArtEEzy.
On August 07 2015 11:02 Belisarius wrote: EE and rtz have had a bromance since forever. It's pretty premature to be talking about the great shuffle, but I would not be surprised to see the two together if Secret implodes.
s4 is possible but it's gonna be either s4 or rtz, not both. My money's on ArtEEzy.
EE has said multiple times in interviews that he didn't want to play with rtz in competitive.
On August 07 2015 11:02 Belisarius wrote: EE and rtz have had a bromance since forever. It's pretty premature to be talking about the great shuffle, but I would not be surprised to see the two together if Secret implodes.
s4 is possible but it's gonna be either s4 or rtz, not both. My money's on ArtEEzy.
EE has said multiple times in interviews that he didn't want to play with rtz in competitive.
I don't think he's said he doesn't want to. He has said that he doesn't think that it will happen/ it would be difficult with them fulfilling the same position. Personally I think rtz would probably be happy to go mid again. Whenever S4 took the lane at TI5 he performed much worse than RTZ did. Compare their SF games vs ehome. Anyways, I hope that whatever EE's team is coming out of TI5 doesn't pick up S4. He was definitively the weakest link in that Secret team.
On August 07 2015 11:02 Belisarius wrote: EE and rtz have had a bromance since forever. It's pretty premature to be talking about the great shuffle, but I would not be surprised to see the two together if Secret implodes.
s4 is possible but it's gonna be either s4 or rtz, not both. My money's on ArtEEzy.
EE has said multiple times in interviews that he didn't want to play with rtz in competitive.
I don't think he's said he doesn't want to. He has said that he doesn't think that it will happen/ it would be difficult with them fulfilling the same position. Personally I think rtz would probably be happy to go mid again. Whenever S4 took the lane at TI5 he performed much worse than RTZ did. Compare their SF games vs ehome. Anyways, I hope that whatever EE's team is coming out of TI5 doesn't pick up S4. He was definitively the weakest link in that Secret team.
The weakest link in the secret team is that they didnt prepare and S4s champion pool suffered. I hope secret losing stops this attitude in western dota teams that practice and scrims arent important. Why the fuck do you think china dominates 2 TIs in a row?
On August 07 2015 11:02 Belisarius wrote: EE and rtz have had a bromance since forever. It's pretty premature to be talking about the great shuffle, but I would not be surprised to see the two together if Secret implodes.
s4 is possible but it's gonna be either s4 or rtz, not both. My money's on ArtEEzy.
EE has said multiple times in interviews that he didn't want to play with rtz in competitive.
I don't think he's said he doesn't want to. He has said that he doesn't think that it will happen/ it would be difficult with them fulfilling the same position. Personally I think rtz would probably be happy to go mid again. Whenever S4 took the lane at TI5 he performed much worse than RTZ did. Compare their SF games vs ehome. Anyways, I hope that whatever EE's team is coming out of TI5 doesn't pick up S4. He was definitively the weakest link in that Secret team.
Arteezy have always been playing the same position, no matter where he laned. He have always been playing carry. EE is also playing carry. It's a problem if you're going to have two hard-farming position 1's on one team
On August 07 2015 11:02 Belisarius wrote: EE and rtz have had a bromance since forever. It's pretty premature to be talking about the great shuffle, but I would not be surprised to see the two together if Secret implodes.
s4 is possible but it's gonna be either s4 or rtz, not both. My money's on ArtEEzy.
EE has said multiple times in interviews that he didn't want to play with rtz in competitive.
I don't think he's said he doesn't want to. He has said that he doesn't think that it will happen/ it would be difficult with them fulfilling the same position. Personally I think rtz would probably be happy to go mid again. Whenever S4 took the lane at TI5 he performed much worse than RTZ did. Compare their SF games vs ehome. Anyways, I hope that whatever EE's team is coming out of TI5 doesn't pick up S4. He was definitively the weakest link in that Secret team.
Arteezy have always been playing the same position, no matter where he laned. He have always been playing carry. EE is also playing carry. It's a problem if you're going to have two hard-farming position 1's on one team
You switch one although it would be preferable if rtz switches since he has played as a traditional and the new mid playstyle before at really high level. However EE talked about how he see the possibility of him switching (at least he was saying how long he would be able to adapt and shit) so there's him who is prolly willing to switch if he has to.
Actually fuck that ee ain't switching he already said that before that he enjoys playing carry more than anything.
Arteezy and EE have made it work before, both in Kaipi and when Arteezy stood in at MLG. Obviously that was quite a while ago and Arteezy has moved even more towards playing carry heroes from that point, but if they actually wanted to play together I don't think it would be a huge issue. But it's another question whether they really want to play together or not.
On August 07 2015 11:02 Belisarius wrote: EE and rtz have had a bromance since forever. It's pretty premature to be talking about the great shuffle, but I would not be surprised to see the two together if Secret implodes.
s4 is possible but it's gonna be either s4 or rtz, not both. My money's on ArtEEzy.
EE has said multiple times in interviews that he didn't want to play with rtz in competitive.
I don't think he's said he doesn't want to. He has said that he doesn't think that it will happen/ it would be difficult with them fulfilling the same position. Personally I think rtz would probably be happy to go mid again. Whenever S4 took the lane at TI5 he performed much worse than RTZ did. Compare their SF games vs ehome. Anyways, I hope that whatever EE's team is coming out of TI5 doesn't pick up S4. He was definitively the weakest link in that Secret team.
Arteezy have always been playing the same position, no matter where he laned. He have always been playing carry. EE is also playing carry. It's a problem if you're going to have two hard-farming position 1's on one team
You switch one although it would be preferable if rtz switches since he has played as a traditional and the new mid playstyle before at really high level. However EE talked about how he see the possibility of him switching (at least he was saying how long he would be able to adapt and shit) so there's him who is prolly willing to switch if he has to.
Actually fuck that ee ain't switching he already said that before that he enjoys playing carry more than anything.
I still beliEEve Goody. With Zai's breakdown and RTZ's obvious disgruntled response he really could leave
On August 07 2015 21:32 spudde123 wrote: Arteezy and EE have made it work before, both in Kaipi and when Arteezy stood in at MLG. Obviously that was quite a while ago and Arteezy has moved even more towards playing carry heroes from that point, but if they actually wanted to play together I don't think it would be a huge issue. But it's another question whether they really want to play together or not.
Well EE has said that he could totally see playing with arteezy so that's fixed on that end. And rtz has expressed that he really really wanted to play with eternalenvy that he invited him to ditch his team and play with EG back before TI4 as well as being really happy that he gets to play with EE during starladder 9 when EE stoodin for EG.
However the only recent thing is the EE seeing that he plays with rtz. And both have mentioned that they probably can't cause overlapping position and similar playstyl while i could see one switching . That would mean one of them would sacrifice what they are comfortable already and play differently. That's like putting suma1l on offlane with the lesser farm priority.
On August 07 2015 09:58 TheNewEra wrote: Just hypothetically speaking: Could a S4 pickup be good for them? Kick Bone or take him as a coach. Rotate Fata on the offlane and S4 mid? His playing at TI aside he could be a good captain/drafter who maybe becomes a free agent in the near future.
Who knows. It depends on EE's and s4's relationship. EE always speaks very highly of s4 but I don't have any idea of what s4 thinks. But if Secret ends up breaking up some c9 players getting involved in a shuffle with them is very likely. Not necessarily s4 "joining" the current c9 but rather both teams somewhat breaking up and new teams being formed.
I don't think both players relationship with each other is really nice. I mean remember EE talking on that toffee interview that he felt s4 betrayed him the most back on NTH and i don't believe s4 believes in EE. Of course that;s just me speculating cause that's all the info i got from them.
On August 07 2015 11:02 Belisarius wrote: EE and rtz have had a bromance since forever. It's pretty premature to be talking about the great shuffle, but I would not be surprised to see the two together if Secret implodes.
s4 is possible but it's gonna be either s4 or rtz, not both. My money's on ArtEEzy.
EE has said multiple times in interviews that he didn't want to play with rtz in competitive.
I don't think he's said he doesn't want to. He has said that he doesn't think that it will happen/ it would be difficult with them fulfilling the same position. Personally I think rtz would probably be happy to go mid again. Whenever S4 took the lane at TI5 he performed much worse than RTZ did. Compare their SF games vs ehome. Anyways, I hope that whatever EE's team is coming out of TI5 doesn't pick up S4. He was definitively the weakest link in that Secret team.
Arteezy have always been playing the same position, no matter where he laned. He have always been playing carry. EE is also playing carry. It's a problem if you're going to have two hard-farming position 1's on one team
You switch one although it would be preferable if rtz switches since he has played as a traditional and the new mid playstyle before at really high level. However EE talked about how he see the possibility of him switching (at least he was saying how long he would be able to adapt and shit) so there's him who is prolly willing to switch if he has to.
Actually fuck that ee ain't switching he already said that before that he enjoys playing carry more than anything.
I still beliEEve Goody. With Zai's breakdown and RTZ's obvious disgruntled response he really could leave
lets not get our hopes up. Especially considering EE has expressed his happiness with the current roster(although they may disband) and rtz may have expressed that he wanted to play but that was back on SADBOYS days so that may not hold true anymore.
On August 07 2015 21:32 spudde123 wrote: Arteezy and EE have made it work before, both in Kaipi and when Arteezy stood in at MLG. Obviously that was quite a while ago and Arteezy has moved even more towards playing carry heroes from that point, but if they actually wanted to play together I don't think it would be a huge issue. But it's another question whether they really want to play together or not.
Well EE has said that he could totally see playing with arteezy so that's fixed on that end. And rtz has expressed that he really really wanted to play with eternalenvy that he invited him to ditch his team and play with EG back before TI4 as well as being really happy that he gets to play with EE during starladder 9 when EE stoodin for EG.
However the only recent thing is the EE seeing that he plays with rtz. And both have mentioned that they probably can't cause overlapping position and similar playstyl while i could see one switching . That would mean one of them would sacrifice what they are comfortable already and play differently. That's like putting suma1l on offlane with the lesser farm priority.
Yeah it's not gonna happen.
I don't see what rtz couldn't play mid (he still is probably a top 3 laner in the world) that farms a lot and EE plays carries that are more team fighting oriented (ala Fear's old picks and stuff like Doom). If they want to play with each other (Which it really seems to be the case) it could happen. I don't think Arteezy stays in Secret, and I don't think he goes back to EG.
On August 07 2015 21:32 spudde123 wrote: Arteezy and EE have made it work before, both in Kaipi and when Arteezy stood in at MLG. Obviously that was quite a while ago and Arteezy has moved even more towards playing carry heroes from that point, but if they actually wanted to play together I don't think it would be a huge issue. But it's another question whether they really want to play together or not.
Well EE has said that he could totally see playing with arteezy so that's fixed on that end. And rtz has expressed that he really really wanted to play with eternalenvy that he invited him to ditch his team and play with EG back before TI4 as well as being really happy that he gets to play with EE during starladder 9 when EE stoodin for EG.
However the only recent thing is the EE seeing that he plays with rtz. And both have mentioned that they probably can't cause overlapping position and similar playstyl while i could see one switching . That would mean one of them would sacrifice what they are comfortable already and play differently. That's like putting suma1l on offlane with the lesser farm priority.
Yeah it's not gonna happen.
I don't see what rtz couldn't play mid (he still is probably a top 3 laner in the world) that farms a lot and EE plays carries that are more team fighting oriented (ala Fear's old picks and stuff like Doom). If they want to play with each other (Which it really seems to be the case) it could happen. I don't think Arteezy stays in Secret, and I don't think he goes back to EG.
Theoretically for them not to give up what they are good at they could have a Empire-like setup and they may need a Yoky type of 3 position player and a very aggressive backbone supports. So that both don't have to change their playstyle hugely.
Oh idk about that they could go back on EG they have admitted way back after DAC that they did not fix the team problems as how a team should fix them but rather left it to rot. I'm sure that artour may be ok returning to EG although i don't know about zai since zai is the first one who expressed distaste on playing under ppd's team.
If Fear decides to retire I wouldn't be surprised if Arteezy was asked back to EG, but if he doesn't then I doubt there is a spot open for him there. But who knows again.
Yeah well we are theoretically just discussing obviously ATM there's no spot for him. So he's stuck with secret or some EU team or some NA team or some old team reformed post-TI5
EPT
I for one would love to see ArtEEzy
