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Lelou
2 Posts
Fyi, it was not Kuku who made that cover up. That was Paulo Sy, their manager. Kuku is not a good English speaker, you can sense that it was not him. Right after they qualified for Chongqing Major, Kuku posted on his personal facebook account about the issue. There he apologized with sincerety using our dialect and you can say that it is really him. That was also the time Paulo Sy revealed that he was the one who made the cover up. | ||
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nuketurnal2
62 Posts
On November 30 2018 16:50 Tio- wrote: You seem to forgot the lie Kuku attempted to cover up his racial remarks. For the chinese, the racial remarks he threw is miniscule compared to that failed cover up, you see. He shouldn't have done that. If it wasn't for that, the ball wouldn't be unstoppable like it is now. there is no forgiving then? | ||
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550
418 Posts
just imo, maybe its not a "person" doing the decision, maybe the condition is like a "forum topic" -> "spontaneous city meet" multiple parties that are loosely connected , after meetings long gone, out of the blue? who would who could.. what traction.. who's even related unless its the offender himself (kuku probably didnt realize his lack of initiative, locks the other party from doing anything, not because they dont want to, but its not any "1/2/3 person") | ||
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3474 Posts
On November 30 2018 19:38 haduken wrote: I'm having a real hard time believing that they meant anything other than what those words are meant to mean. Unless you live in some strange world where Ching chong have some sort of positive connotation, i think you are just arguing on semantics. Intent makes a huge difference here in my opinion. I see no reason to believe those remarks weren't meant jokingly, not to insult or harm. Bad joke? For sure, but not worth a ban. Words are not just negative or positive, they have different meanings to different people. I think It's rather pretentious to claim to know what a word is "supposed to mean". | ||
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550
418 Posts
not about right/wrong its that the punishment came from a topic of unrelated people (pleb-to-pleb x100) so (who knows who) to speak on who's behalf afterwards (to forgive/ignore) its logical to do it the mc/tl way needs to be personal to gain traction/attention | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On November 29 2018 04:31 HolyPepsi wrote: it is the same... the only reason i say such things because I know holocause history but you dont know Chinese history in North America. i am quoting my response from anther post in liquiddota... ------------------ Your response was partially contributed to this problem.... Ching Chong and Chink are equivalent to nigger... Slaves were ported to US and Canada during late Qing (Ching dynasty) where men have pony tales on their head.. They could not speak English, being treated like slave and built majority of railways in Canada and USA... Canada use to charge head tax against Chinese ethnic only... The word Chink and Ching chong are originated to discriminate the Qing Slaves, the first mass generated migrated to North America looking for survival... Asian do not make as big noise as black... Does not knowing the origin and meaning of this word is ignorant, not excuses... It is valve's responsibility to stop this whole bullshit going out of control. "Ching chong, Chinaman, Sitting on a wall. Along came a white man, and chopped his head off." ![[image loading]](https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2010/08/Capture5.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://images.asian-nation.org/anti-chinese-10.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IWZjSs_9h3o/UgBH4aEQg4I/AAAAAAAAHzc/5U9p7QuYLSA/s400/imageMain_16_802.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://philadelphiaencyclopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/The-Great-Fear-of-the-Period.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://factsanddetails.com/media/2/20080304-anti_CHinese.gif) Chinese exclusion Act in 1882 in US https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/chinese-exclusion-act/ the reason is Asian history in the western has been under-represented, does not mean it does not happen. i can start a separate thread if necessary. ------------------- I didn't read the whole thing fully, but as a Chinese I can confirm that ching Chong itself has no meaning in Asia, it is a weak slur. The reason why it is offensive lies behind the fact that we know historically it has been used by westerners to degrade Chinese in the west, like in examples you put. Thus we equate that to being a disrespectful term. So maybe Chinese living in the west will be impacted, but Chinese in Asia don't really care about the term. You call/mock a black African a monkey like some do in Europe, and they're upset because you're associating them as an animal or a beast, or that you're mocking their appearance. You make a ching chong joke to a Chinese in Asia, we won't get upset over the word itself. We get upset because you decided to insult and disrespect us. And mainland Chinese are very proud people these days and think their time of being belittled is over. | ||
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550
418 Posts
regarding (kuku) / (grant) what does he expect? a random dude in the other community, to come out and initiate a discussion (in his behalf) to overturn without context / a personal address / request? so strange (in their behalf?) isit just me, or is this alittle weird too? the (on their behalf), is the weirdest part, tbh | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
As the OP wrote, it seems there is no hard ban. But the organizers and TNC are essentially being threatened by what might happen if Kuku comes and plays normally. I don't know if they are empty threats or if they would actually cancel the event or something. It seems pretty awkward that noone is taking responsibility for deciding what to do. The municipal government seemingly isn't clearly saying what they will do but instead are throwing vague threats. The organizers are saying that they can't guarantee Kuku's safety and the entire event might be cancelled if he comes, but at the same time they aren't blocking him from coming and seeing what happens. And Valve is just sitting quietly saying nothing. Seems possible that the event will go on normally and this will just turn out to be empty posturing. But I wouldn't be that comfortable in Kuku's position without a better idea of how serious the municipal government officials are being. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On December 02 2018 15:06 DucK- wrote: I didn't read the whole thing fully, but as a Chinese I can confirm that ching Chong itself has no meaning in Asia, it is a weak slur. The reason why it is offensive lies behind the fact that we know historically it has been used by westerners to degrade Chinese in the west, like in examples you put. Thus we equate that to being a disrespectful term. So maybe Chinese living in the west will be impacted, but Chinese in Asia don't really care about the term. You call/mock a black African a monkey like some do in Europe, and they're upset because you're associating them as an animal or a beast, or that you're mocking their appearance. You make a ching chong joke to a Chinese in Asia, we won't get upset over the word itself. We get upset because you decided to insult and disrespect us. And mainland Chinese are very proud people these days and think their time of being belittled is over. There is an important difference between who says the CC insult though. It may have started as a Chinese-specific insult, but it morphed into a catch-all insult against Asians in western countries. If a white or black person says CC to an Asian, then it is a horrible insult on the same level as the N word, and probably Filipinos themselves are sometimes the recipient of the word in a racist way. However if I see an Asian say CC to another Asian it's not going to look so serious, and remember Filipinos are grouped into the Asian category in the west. I'm not at all justifying them saying it publicly as that's just dumb, but there is a big difference between a non-Asian and an Asian using the same slur. | ||
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550
418 Posts
(Seems email correspondence thru valve can fix) Grant n the reddit posters being so weird though.. Somehow i feel its supposed to be much easier, prolly not with people intervening left n right (I mean, have kuku tried posting himself in the other forums "lol guys sorry my bad, can w still be friends, " After his managers botched attempt? | ||
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Tio-
6 Posts
On November 30 2018 22:25 Lelou wrote: Tio- Fyi, it was not Kuku who made that cover up. That was Paulo Sy, their manager. Kuku is not a good English speaker, you can sense that it was not him. Right after they qualified for Chongqing Major, Kuku posted on his personal facebook account about the issue. There he apologized with sincerety using our dialect and you can say that it is really him. That was also the time Paulo Sy revealed that he was the one who made the cover up. Really? I am not really following these issue, so I don't know this. Thanks for correcting me. Sadly, it still doesn't change that it was that unfortunate moment that leads to chinese community lost their trust. If only.. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
he said ching chong in a pub (fucking stupid, but kids/trolls be kids, it's hormonal and cultural inexperience) then said it was a players name so you wouldnt get so butthurt about it after reading this shit i really don't blame him/his manager for the second part holy fuck goddamn morons, go outside for a change, breath in the air, and realise we as an international community won't get anywhere in life if something so distant and negligible affects us so much | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On December 02 2018 18:48 tomatriedes wrote: There is an important difference between who says the CC insult though. It may have started as a Chinese-specific insult, but it morphed into a catch-all insult against Asians in western countries. If a white or black person says CC to an Asian, then it is a horrible insult on the same level as the N word, and probably Filipinos themselves are sometimes the recipient of the word in a racist way. However if I see an Asian say CC to another Asian it's not going to look so serious, and remember Filipinos are grouped into the Asian category in the west. I'm not at all justifying them saying it publicly as that's just dumb, but there is a big difference between a non-Asian and an Asian using the same slur. Umm for this case its more of who you're saying ching chong too. To chinese in the west, they would feel insulted. To Chinese in Asia, we're not affected by the word at all. Notice how I don't even abbreviate ching Chong because the term is not taboo here. The mainland Chinese are just pissed at the disrespect shown to them (that a westerner/pinoy had the audacity to mock them), and they're recently a rather prideful bunch. | ||
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leemr
1 Post
Right after they qualified for Chongqing Major, Kuku posted on his personal facebook account about the issue. There he apologized with sincerety using our dialect and you can say that it is really him. That was also the time Paulo Sy revealed that he was the one who made the cover up.www.liquiddota.com | ||
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HolyPepsi
Canada210 Posts
On December 02 2018 15:06 DucK- wrote: I didn't read the whole thing fully, but as a Chinese I can confirm that ching Chong itself has no meaning in Asia, it is a weak slur. The reason why it is offensive lies behind the fact that we know historically it has been used by westerners to degrade Chinese in the west, like in examples you put. Thus we equate that to being a disrespectful term. So maybe Chinese living in the west will be impacted, but Chinese in Asia don't really care about the term. You call/mock a black African a monkey like some do in Europe, and they're upset because you're associating them as an animal or a beast, or that you're mocking their appearance. You make a ching chong joke to a Chinese in Asia, we won't get upset over the word itself. We get upset because you decided to insult and disrespect us. And mainland Chinese are very proud people these days and think their time of being belittled is over. exactly... the english word 'nigge'r translate to "black ghost" in Chinese... does not have any particular meaning either... if a Chinese public figure calls a black person "black ghost" in public in Chinese, he may not carry the negative intent but a serious offense is made.. | ||
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550
418 Posts
meh i probably shouldnt have cared so much valve should just put all this 8 parties in a room, if at all possible, in real life everything would probably be solved in under an hour (online communication/skype doesnt work that well) (yea, those casters included) | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27172 Posts
It dragged nearly all the heat from Skem to Kuku, and of course anything that related to him, which include his daughter. There are Internet crazy mobs in every community and of course the Chinese community does the same. So all out the death threats and racist shit. I don’t approve of that action, but I understand their fury. Justification of threatening death to a player's child. Classy. | ||
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3474 Posts
On December 03 2018 10:45 leemr wrote: Fyi, it was not Kuku who made that cover up. That was Paulo Sy, their manager. Kuku is not a good English speaker, you can sense that it was not him. Right after they qualified for Chongqing Major, Kuku posted on his personal facebook account about the issue. There he apologized with sincerety using our dialect and you can say that it is really him. That was also the time Paulo Sy revealed that he was the one who made the cover up.www.liquiddota.com this is pure speculation. Afaik Kuku never publically stated that the cover-up story was posted without his knowledge or assent (feel free to prove me wrong). It doesn't matter who typed the words as long as Kuku was in on it. | ||
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ben4ptx
1 Post
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HolyPepsi
Canada210 Posts
On December 03 2018 13:50 InFiNitY[pG] wrote: this is pure speculation. Afaik Kuku never publically stated that the cover-up story was posted without his knowledge or assent (feel free to prove me wrong). It doesn't matter who typed the words as long as Kuku was in on it. it is a collective decision. kuku certainly was a part of it (he has an official Chinese blog. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/phvOpTE.jpg) | ||
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