if players start being selective about tournaments, less big names will make an appearance at every, for instance, star ladder. this will bring competition, viewership, and consequently prize money down.

orgs will be forced to reduce the amount of tournaments and then most teams will actually be able to play all of the tournaments out there.

its basically a differential equation except instead of the fox and bunny example, its teams and tournament organizers.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

December 16 2014 16:19 GMT

#1442

No, we agree with you and think that teams being more selective about what events they are going to and the problem will resolve itself. The only difference is that we are not calling Dota 2 Pros spoiled divas or chide them for complaining about having to play in to many qualifiers.

Just because he said it differently doesn't mean you are both not making the exact same point.

Unleashing

Denmark14978 Posts

December 16 2014 16:20 GMT

#1443

On December 17 2014 01:17 Sn0_Man wrote:
I think EE explained plenty well why they can't really just opt out of half the tournaments. There's a TI to get to and always the chance that you won't do well at the tournaments that you do sign up for. Hell secret failed to qualify for dreamhack imagine if they hadn't signed up for other tournaments.

But they end up dropping out of a ton of the tournaments anyway in the end, it's pretty common in the scene that a top tier team just drops out of a tournament in the middle of it, sign up for fewer tournaments and perform better in those instead of apparently being super stressed out and performing poorly due to stress/not caring.

If the players aren't selective the problem will not go away until the amount of tournaments begin dropping because viewers simply don't care anymore. Organizations wont stop producing tournaments as long as it's profitable, which it is as longer as the viewers care.

One thing organizers could do however is just inviting more pro teams directly instead of all the bullshit online qualifiers for qualifiers, that's something i agree completely with. But again, they probably wont because it's simply too profitable and brings in too much viewership to have that online qualifier running.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8910 Posts

December 16 2014 16:20 GMT

#1444

I was responding to this

On December 17 2014 01:15 Unleashing wrote:
You and the blog say it as though the organizations have to reduce the number of tournaments they host. That isn't how it works, why would they reduce the number if it's currently profitable to shit out tournaments 24/7?

icystorage

Jollibee19350 Posts

December 16 2014 16:24 GMT

#1445

Well, i believe every tournament wants to be the very best (no one ever was). To catch viewers is the first test to that and teams should train for the cause. Some teams travel across the land sometimes searching far and wide but we all know that's more on you and me, like our destiny. This game is our best friend and we must defend. We watch them and they teach us. There will be challenges along the way but with courage we will face. I will watch every day to just to claim our rightful place. Arm in arm we'll win the fight, it's always been our dream.

We gotta watch them all.

Qbek

Poland12923 Posts

December 16 2014 16:29 GMT

#1446

It's a free market guys. If the current state is not profitable for everyone involved, it won't last. Nobody is forced to play in tournaments or host them. And even if they are, that won't last either.

cecek

Czech Republic18921 Posts

December 16 2014 16:51 GMT

#1447

As a viewer, I don't think I'm overall less hyped for Dota 2. My hype just shifted, now I only get hyped for LAN matches pretty much. I used to get hyped about Starladder groupstage matches, because there wasn't that much else going on. Now I don't get hyped for groupstage matches anymore, instead I get hyped about that stuff, because I depleted my hype on Dreamhack, previous SL and Summit LANs. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and I think most people feel this way.

The other concerns from EE's blog form the players' point of view like how badly are treated with flights, being forced to play in long qualifiers, dysfunctional PCs and stuff are probably very valid, tho.

ahswtini

Northern Ireland22211 Posts

December 16 2014 16:55 GMT

#1448

i pretty much never watch a tournament stream that isn't a grand finals nowadays, barring like one or two games from summit 2

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

December 16 2014 17:00 GMT

#1449

I pretty much just watch whatever matches EG is playing in. I agree with a lot of people that the whole issue with to many events will work itself out.

However, players do need to speak up about shit quality PCs, shit quality housing and treatment at events where that is handled by the event runner and excessive qualifiers. I do not like the idea that the players should be just happy with whatever shit the event forces them to put up with. No one wants so many games that players are phoning it in because they are on their 7th best of 3 for the week against some team.

Qbek

Poland12923 Posts

December 16 2014 17:02 GMT

#1450

Players should speak up to their manager and tell him to deal with it. These are all people on sponsored teams ffs, they can do it professionally.

Unleashing

Denmark14978 Posts

December 16 2014 17:03 GMT

#1451

On December 17 2014 02:00 Plansix wrote:
However, players do need to speak up about shit quality PCs, shit quality housing and treatment at events where that is handled by the event runner and excessive qualifiers.

I agree entirely with this, the players should be treated properly at events and stuff.
Like the no bathroom break stuff was completely dumb, same with poor PC quality and organizers buying the cheapest possible flight plans to the event etc. that kind of shit isn't acceptable.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

December 16 2014 17:06 GMT

#1452

On December 17 2014 02:02 Qbek wrote:
Players should speak up to their manager and tell him to deal with it. These are all people on sponsored teams ffs, they can do it professionally.

A little of both I think is fine. EEs blog pretty much takes everyone to task about issues. Once again, I would rather people be aware of this stuff so when C9 says "Nah, we are not going to Starladder because last time they shoved us in a single hotel room and there were no practice PCs" everyone says "seems legit".

A little player push back is fine. Excessive whining over the span of several months is not.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 16 2014 17:31 GMT

#1453

OMG KEEP THIS SHIT OUT OF OFF-TOPIC FFS

dismiss

United Kingdom3341 Posts

December 16 2014 17:33 GMT

#1454

Please do not backseat moderate.

Tbh, I still think it's hilarious that players whine about it so publically, it should be handled behind the scenes, but I guess the maturity and professionalism just isn't there for all involved parties.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 16 2014 17:34 GMT

#1455

It's a little ironic that we can go on-topic about dota in an off-topic thread and yet, the on-topic dota subject is, subsequently, off-topic.

also lol @ backseat moderation. good label

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

December 16 2014 17:34 GMT

#1456

Someone is grumpy about having to update all those guides and not being appreciated by Carmac.

ahswtini

Northern Ireland22211 Posts

December 16 2014 17:36 GMT

#1457

On December 17 2014 02:31 Torte de Lini wrote:
OMG KEEP THIS SHIT OUT OF OFF-TOPIC FFS

bold text is too far m80

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 16 2014 17:44 GMT

#1458

On December 17 2014 02:36 ahswtini wrote:

Show nested quote +

bold text is too far m80

I wish there was something in-between bold and /big. It's so frustrating because bold is too flashy, but /big is strange looking

underline just looks wrong everywhere

On December 17 2014 02:34 Plansix wrote:
Someone is grumpy about having to update all those guides and not being appreciated by Carmac.

you gut me mate