EPT
There's no moral quandary here.Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion - Page 10427
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OmniEulogy
Canada6600 Posts
There's no moral quandary here. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
Quietly taking advantage of a rule mistake instead of pointing it out is a perfect example of unsportsmanlike behaviour. | ||
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Slomo
Germany7198 Posts
The best thing out of all of this will be twitch chat when [A] loses a game or feeds first blood. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On May 13 2021 17:54 Slomo wrote: Might be unsportsmanlike. But if a team is there to win, not just to compete, its fair game. The best thing out of all of this will be twitch chat when [A] loses a game or feeds first blood. Thing is, 'unsportsmanlike behaviour' IS against the rules. It's in there as a catch-all rule for situations exactly like this. So no, it's not fair game and there absolutely is a case against Alliance. Honestly, if I were one of the other teams in upper division I'd be fucking furious about this. Alliance got away with murder, they had A MASSIVE advantage in their matches, their wins make them much more likely to qualify to TI now, the EV change is gigantic. And of course Dreamhack won't do anything because they have no spine and want this to blow over, because it mainly reflects poorly on them. | ||
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Slomo
Germany7198 Posts
Turn it around. Is it Alliances responsibility to read rules to the other teams? We all agree this is a dick move. And we all agree it's on ESL/Dreamhack that this shitty rule was in place. And I agree that other teams should be furious. The only difference is that IMO they should be furious at themselves/coaches/managers who didn't read/forward this Mail properly instead of Alliance. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On May 13 2021 19:36 Slomo wrote: But these catch-all rules rarely ever work. In this case it's such a massive change that Alliance can always say: "why should we say it, it's obviously soooo big that everybody had to catch it" and act all surprised the other teams didn't follow it? Turn it around. Is it Alliances responsibility to read rules to the other teams? We all agree this is a dick move. And we all agree it's on ESL/Dreamhack that this shitty rule was in place. And I agree that other teams should be furious. The only difference is that IMO they should be furious at themselves/coaches/managers who didn't read/forward this Mail properly instead of Alliance. The rules do rarely ever work, because the TO never have the balls to enforce them. That's been a problem in Dota (and probably esports overall) since the very start. What's gonna happen is that nobody is gonna get penalized for this. Alliance will get away with this, Dreamlague will get away with it, and the rest of the teams will just have to suck up the fact that they had to play 5v6 vs Alliance in these incrediby important DPC matches. I hate the precedent this sets, it's bullshit, and it's definitely not fair. | ||
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harodihg
Japan1344 Posts
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On May 13 2021 22:57 harodihg wrote: I think what should be realized is that even if the rules explicitly stated "you can use a 6th player as a coach in game" in bright red text, it would be a huge deal -- it would be like if FIFA changed the rules allowing nets 1/2 smaller if you brought them, then only one team showed up with a smaller net. In this instance, I can't imagine Alliance didn't see the rule change as shocking and wasn't alarmed nor suspect of their own actions. They WERE anxious about what they were doing and decided to do it anyway with "we read the rules" as their fallback excuse. They knew what they were doing was questionable at best, and cheating at worst, and decided that the potential gains outweighed the risks, it was a calculated decision to benefit themselves at the expense of others. That's why it's so annoying. And it worked, perfectly. No consequences at all. If you estimate the EV gained from the stunt, it might be like a million dollar gamble for them. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
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Slomo
Germany7198 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7764 Posts
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Slomo
Germany7198 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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harodihg
Japan1344 Posts
"Like, Alliance's image took a massive blow over all this, despite them literally not doing anything wrong." their image should take a massive blow, they knowingly tried to cheat based on the premise that "haha its not teknikully against da rulez" its the same kind of stupid shit i would do to bait getting banned on TL, except they stand to gain a shitload of money, and others stand to lose a shitload of money | ||
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PoulsenB
Poland7764 Posts
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
Honestly, wouldn't be surprised if teams refused to scrim with Alliance, that's probably what I'd do. | ||
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harodihg
Japan1344 Posts
On May 14 2021 22:16 PoulsenB wrote: It's funny how Loda was all upset about NaVi using the fountain hook strat back in the day and now Alliance does something equivalent to that (i.e. using an advantage nobody else used even though it was technically not forbidden) and suddenly it's totally okay lul it's not even equivalent, this situation for Alliance is FAR worse because anyone with half a brain that's ever even touched semi-pro dota would tell you that it's intended to not be allowed Loda is a balding loser | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
But this look so bad on so many levels. ESL and Dreamhack for both making game charging rules without clearly inform Valve, teams, casters and public. Also find it astounding that after a team contacted them regarding the charge, they did not think to clarify the rule for everyone. Wondering what goes on in there heads. Valve for not making clear rules in general, feel like we tried something similar when ESL decided to only use Facebook to cast tournament. The management of E sport for only one team reading the mail and noticing and understanding the rule change. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34173 Posts
do they throw it and teleport to where it lands? i've always wonder that | ||
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