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On September 26 2014 22:47 ZeaL. wrote:Playing 1 protect 4 as support ogre. Get rekt early/midgame. They try to push middle a little too hastily and then... + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +we trade 1 for 3. Suddenly, richest ogre in the world Not sure how to feel about this.
Now you can buy that Euls you always wanted! But really the other team is still winning, look at that mini map and net worth different. You just need to do that 3 more times for a full comeback.
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On September 26 2014 19:09 FHDH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 19:06 Laserist wrote:
Problem is the delicious ancient gold. March can't pierce bkb now, right? It's a problem. The hero has certainly been nerfed but unless aggressively shut down it was a fucking god before. The idea that it's been nerfed into unplayability lacks imagination.
The only real change beyond reverting to 6.80 in terms of builds is that losing his lane is more punishing. You just have to be good.
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On September 26 2014 22:49 Geo.Rion wrote:
PL in every game, ruining every game
0.5 sec invulnerability with the added benefits that the spells thrown at you are cast and do nothing, into having additional illus that charge the enemy
How the fuck did they come up with this cancerous shit
Tanky aoe. like dp centaur wrecks pl.
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On September 26 2014 22:47 ZeaL. wrote:Playing 1 protect 4 as support ogre. Get rekt early/midgame. They try to push middle a little too hastily and then... + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +we trade 1 for 3. Suddenly, richest ogre in the world Not sure how to feel about this.
This. Is. The problem.
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Its actually more like many other games are:
SC2: You get a huge lead but take 1-2 bad Engagements --> Your lead is gone or you are even dead.
Quake: You get a Killlead, die, now your Opponent gets Item control, suddenly you have to fight from "behind" despite still leading in kills.
It's too early to tell if this is bad or if its (if it is) just too extreme for Dota. Wait and see.
The only Problem I see is, that it puts early/midgame lineups even more on a timer... But we'll see.
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On September 26 2014 23:02 GinNtoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 22:47 ZeaL. wrote:Playing 1 protect 4 as support ogre. Get rekt early/midgame. They try to push middle a little too hastily and then... + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +we trade 1 for 3. Suddenly, richest ogre in the world Not sure how to feel about this. This. Is. The problem.
They. Are. Still losing. The Euls. Won't. Save. Them. Alone.
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On September 26 2014 23:00 Fwizzz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 22:49 Geo.Rion wrote:
PL in every game, ruining every game
0.5 sec invulnerability with the added benefits that the spells thrown at you are cast and do nothing, into having additional illus that charge the enemy
How the fuck did they come up with this cancerous shit Tanky aoe. like dp centaur wrecks pl.
he dodges aoe spells too, he s invulnerable for 0.5 a cheap, low cd ability. hwo the hell is that ok
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On September 26 2014 23:03 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 23:00 Fwizzz wrote:On September 26 2014 22:49 Geo.Rion wrote:
PL in every game, ruining every game
0.5 sec invulnerability with the added benefits that the spells thrown at you are cast and do nothing, into having additional illus that charge the enemy
How the fuck did they come up with this cancerous shit Tanky aoe. like dp centaur wrecks pl. he dodges aoe spells too, he s invulnerable for 0.5 a cheap, low cd ability. hwo the hell is that ok
Because it has been all of half a day and the hero is still squishy as hell with no way to sustain and can't farm up as quickly as before. And if you're not defunct in the head you can read where he is going to reappear.
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On September 26 2014 23:03 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 23:00 Fwizzz wrote:On September 26 2014 22:49 Geo.Rion wrote:
PL in every game, ruining every game
0.5 sec invulnerability with the added benefits that the spells thrown at you are cast and do nothing, into having additional illus that charge the enemy
How the fuck did they come up with this cancerous shit Tanky aoe. like dp centaur wrecks pl. he dodges aoe spells too, he s invulnerable for 0.5 a cheap, low cd ability. hwo the hell is that ok
He was MAJORLY nerfed, though.
Minus 30 fucking AGI (at level 25).
No magic resistance bonus.
Illusions lasts shorter than my payment.
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On September 26 2014 22:54 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 19:09 FHDH wrote:On September 26 2014 19:06 Laserist wrote:
Problem is the delicious ancient gold. March can't pierce bkb now, right? It's a problem. The hero has certainly been nerfed but unless aggressively shut down it was a fucking god before. The idea that it's been nerfed into unplayability lacks imagination. The only real change beyond reverting to 6.80 in terms of builds is that losing his lane is more punishing. You just have to be good.
no tinker isnt back to 6.8, he's been nerfed on every single front, bottle more expensive, blink more expensive, dagon costs more mana, eblade no longer makes you ghosted and the obvisous march nerf
Tinker is trash tier now(at least now that people are so used to playing against him)
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On September 26 2014 23:03 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 23:02 GinNtoniC wrote:On September 26 2014 22:47 ZeaL. wrote:Playing 1 protect 4 as support ogre. Get rekt early/midgame. They try to push middle a little too hastily and then... + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +we trade 1 for 3. Suddenly, richest ogre in the world Not sure how to feel about this. This. Is. The problem. They. Are. Still losing. The Euls. Won't. Save. Them. Alone.
It is not a problem until 1 team fight may go insta throne? I am not saying it is a huge problem or game breaking, but the values should be revised soon.
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The formula should definitely be altered. Its absurd right now, unless you want gameplay to be play HotS
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On September 26 2014 23:10 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 23:03 Plansix wrote:On September 26 2014 23:02 GinNtoniC wrote:On September 26 2014 22:47 ZeaL. wrote:Playing 1 protect 4 as support ogre. Get rekt early/midgame. They try to push middle a little too hastily and then... + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +we trade 1 for 3. Suddenly, richest ogre in the world Not sure how to feel about this. This. Is. The problem. They. Are. Still losing. The Euls. Won't. Save. Them. Alone. It is not a problem until 1 team fight may go insta throne? I am not saying it is a huge problem or game breaking, but the values should be revised soon.
... You could already do that before. It literally hasn't changed at all... You still have to win the fight.
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On September 26 2014 23:10 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 23:03 Plansix wrote:On September 26 2014 23:02 GinNtoniC wrote:On September 26 2014 22:47 ZeaL. wrote:Playing 1 protect 4 as support ogre. Get rekt early/midgame. They try to push middle a little too hastily and then... + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +we trade 1 for 3. Suddenly, richest ogre in the world Not sure how to feel about this. This. Is. The problem. They. Are. Still losing. The Euls. Won't. Save. Them. Alone. It is not a problem until 1 team fight may go insta throne? I am not saying it is a huge problem or game breaking, but the values should be revised soon.
Yeah, that might happen and I don't think it will be bad. Valve and Icefrog are very good about fixing that stuff if they see its not working after a couple of weeks. They might be a bit high right now, but they level out after each fight. Its not like you get bonus tons gold if the games are equal.
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On September 26 2014 22:21 GinNtoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 22:01 govie wrote:all games will be closer, people wont give up that easily as they used too, that isnt bad thats good  No, that is bad. Why? Because a great early games gets erased by one bad fight or a smoke gank. Why would you even put emphasis on playing an early-game-focused lineup? What will happen is: • Early game rotations will mean less because comebacks are a lot easier to pull off (bounty value) • Teams that accumulate a solid lead in the midgame will pull back and farm/starve their opponents rather than going high ground --> We will have very long and stale games where people will avoid pushing high ground to avoid big teamfights where massive Net Worth swings will happen. Your kind of logic annoys me massively, because all you see is "games will be closer = more exciting!" Imagine you watch a game of football/soccer and a team is down by 0-3. What if the referee gave the losing team a free goal or two just to make the game more exciting? That's TERRIBLE for the sport and if Dota is to be considered a legitimate e-sport, then changes like this are hurting the game.
Agreed, I feel like DOTA2 is taking a page from Heroes of the Storm's underdog advantage and I am not a big fan of this. Come backs should be based on the players' abilities alone and not by some in-game handicap/mechanic that kills the leading team's advantage all for the sake of "close, exciting, back-and-forth games".
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On the topic of the bounty gold/exp:
From my, VERY limited experience with this patch, this makes any hero focused on early game completely useless. Unless you win hard by 15min, heroes like CM and Enchantress are useless. And I mean it. They bring mostly nothing to the table after 10min.
If this balance is kept they will need to add some form of late game to these and other heroes, because they were bad before now they are very, very bad.
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On September 26 2014 22:21 GinNtoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 22:01 govie wrote:all games will be closer, people wont give up that easily as they used too, that isnt bad thats good No, that is bad. Why? Because a great early games gets erased by one bad fight or a smoke gank. Why would you even put emphasis on playing an early-game-focused lineup? What will happen is: • Early game rotations will mean less because comebacks are a lot easier to pull off (bounty value) • Teams that accumulate a solid lead in the midgame will pull back and farm/starve their opponents rather than going high ground --> We will have very long and stale games where people will avoid pushing high ground to avoid big teamfights where massive Net Worth swings will happen. Your kind of logic annoys me massively, because all you see is "games will be closer = more exciting!" Imagine you watch a game of football/soccer and a team is down by 0-3. What if the referee gave the losing team a free goal or two just to make the game more exciting? That's TERRIBLE for the sport and if Dota is to be considered a legitimate e-sport, then changes like this are hurting the game.
I understand that but i enjoy dota alot more when everyone is trying to win. I see alot of games in the trench were people give up and throw a game pre 10 minutemark thats winneable, just because they had a bad start. Those games will occur alot less. I guess the lower mmr you have the happier you are with this xp/gold change, because 40/50% of my games feel like people are throwing games on purpose 6 minutes in and valve punishes me if i leave, so eventually i start to feed too just to find a descent game. This patch solves that to an extend, sadly not everyone plays with the mentality of a 5k+ mmr player.
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What if the underdog will have the same gold/xp gain before the patch and the stomper team will gain less and less?
I mean keeping the item costs same and boost the underdog leads very quick itemization which they don't deserve. Snowballing should give you less instead of feeding underdog more imo.
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On September 26 2014 23:14 Jotoco wrote:
On the topic of the bounty gold/exp:
From my, VERY limited experience with this patch, this makes any hero focused on early game completely useless. Unless you win hard by 15min, heroes like CM and Enchantress are useless. And I mean it. They bring mostly nothing to the table after 10min.
If this balance is kept they will need to add some form of late game to these and other heroes, because they were bad before now they are very, very bad.
The two heroes you named are pretty awesome if they can get gold. Enchantress is very good late game and CM is awesome if you can get a blink and BKB on her. They don't scale endlessly like some heroes, but they are useful after 10 minutes with gold.
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On September 26 2014 23:16 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 22:21 GinNtoniC wrote:On September 26 2014 22:01 govie wrote:all games will be closer, people wont give up that easily as they used too, that isnt bad thats good No, that is bad. Why? Because a great early games gets erased by one bad fight or a smoke gank. Why would you even put emphasis on playing an early-game-focused lineup? What will happen is: • Early game rotations will mean less because comebacks are a lot easier to pull off (bounty value) • Teams that accumulate a solid lead in the midgame will pull back and farm/starve their opponents rather than going high ground --> We will have very long and stale games where people will avoid pushing high ground to avoid big teamfights where massive Net Worth swings will happen. Your kind of logic annoys me massively, because all you see is "games will be closer = more exciting!" Imagine you watch a game of football/soccer and a team is down by 0-3. What if the referee gave the losing team a free goal or two just to make the game more exciting? That's TERRIBLE for the sport and if Dota is to be considered a legitimate e-sport, then changes like this are hurting the game. I understand that but i enjoy dota alot more when everyone is trying to win. I see alot of games in the trench were people give up and throw a game pre 10 minutemark thats winneable, just because they had a bad start. Those games will occur alot less. I guess the lower mmr you have the happier you are with this xp/gold change, because 40/50% of my games feel like people are throwing games on purpose 6 minutes in and valve punishes me if i leave, so eventually i start to feed too just to find a descent game. This patch solves that to an extend, sadly not everyone plays with the mentality of a 5k+ mmr player.
I dont want my games turning into shit just so trench games aren't as awfull
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GDy7XuE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zDQuPg8.jpg)
