EPT6.82 Balance Changes and Discussion Thread - Page 77
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
On September 26 2014 23:58 Plansix wrote: Further confirming that dota buff is bad at stuff. I really wish it showed you how many games caused the increase. I know spectre is godly, but I wonder how many games caused that increase? I haven't see spectre in a game in like 4-6 months(my personal games) Uh, I'm pretty sure sample sizes are sufficient. I mean if there is ONE thing that dotabuff is good for it's having large sample sizes. | ||
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
On September 26 2014 23:58 Plansix wrote: Further confirming that dota buff is bad at stuff. I really wish it showed you how many games caused the increase. I know spectre is godly, but I wonder how many games caused that increase? I haven't see spectre in a game in like 4-6 months(my personal games) http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/spectre Getting picked very slight less than before, but sitting at 7% of games. | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 27 2014 00:00 Sn0_Man wrote: 15,051, according to heroes -> most played -> 6.82 That is quite a few. I like spectre and that is an amazing leap. I am willing to give it another 24 hours before I call the hero OP and demand they be removed from dota. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Kireak
Sweden358 Posts
The should have changed kill streak gold to individual networth gold along with the other anti-push, anti-snowball changes in this patch | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On September 26 2014 23:55 Sn0_Man wrote: No thats just what dotabuff graphs look like cuz dotabuff dynamically scales all their graphs (LOL). The point remains, if ur hero goes late ur hero has up to 10.7% higher winrate with essentially no buff (or even big nerfs). And while I'll be the first to tell u that dotabuff means very very little in terms of how balanced a hero is, its hard to say that spectre picking up 10% winrate doesn't say a lot about how the patch itself is balanced. parallel_universe would be proud. That's some solid data, winrates and graphs. That's how you can tell the arguments are solid! | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 27 2014 00:04 Sn0_Man wrote: It's got jack shit to do with the hero being OP and everything to do with dota being fucked up Sarcasm and intentional hyperbole is lost on you huh? | ||
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Asymmetric
Scotland1309 Posts
On September 26 2014 23:40 idonthinksobro wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JLuqeDB.png) You know something very, very odd is going on when Medusa has that high a winrate in pubs. Reckon im picking Medusa, Spectre or Void this week. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On September 27 2014 00:04 Kireak wrote: I dont see why a support with no farm should get super punished by his carry farming like a beast. You litterally have to sit in your base not to risk feeding the enemies thousands of gold for killing you (unless they got bloodseeker, zeus in which case you will die anyway). The should have changed kill streak gold to individual networth gold along with the other anti-push, anti-snowball changes in this patch The bonus part of the assist gold is directly related to the individual hero networth. If you have 20% of his networth, you will give away 20% of the gold he would give, besides the static stuff from levels. Also, DotaBuff is fine, as long as people know how to read. Overall, lategame carries increased their winrate, some by little, some by a lot. A 3%-5% increase is definatelly meaningful. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
As for the bounty changes... one game my team played kind of poorly all game, losing more teamfights than we won and not farming efficiently at all. The other team takes a lane of rax against us, overextends (they didn't fountain dive, but they thought about it) and we wipe them. Game is now even again. We take a very poor fight, lose another lane and a half of rax, leaving us with a single ranged rax and one tier 4. However, they overextend again a little, get wiped, and we push down through t2, t3 and throne mid. To be fair, they played kind of poorly at the end, defending in ones and twos. They threw pretty hard - but that's not my point. My point is that I had the distinct feeling all game that nothing I did in the first 30 minutes actually affected the outcome of the game. In 6.81, my 10 minute ultra kill with Sanity's Eclipse would have had a significant impact on how the rest of the game progressed. In 6.82, I really don't feel like it did. A couple of minutes later I got picked off and, welp, gold and XP lead now evaporated. In short, I just didn't care for most of the game. Got picked off? Doesn't matter, that's just more gold for us the next time we get a kill. Lost a teamfight? Who cares, as long as you don't get hammered so hard the other team can take lots of objectives. You just kind of mess around and both teams build up gold/xp until one team or the other is fat enough to throne. (The other game I played our team had an advantage and more-or-less kept it for the entire game... but I was playing Meepo so I'm not sure how applicable that is in general.) | ||
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TrainSamurai
339 Posts
On September 26 2014 22:01 Plansix wrote: There are plenty of people who don't care or think its fine. They are just less loud that the people complaining. If you look at reddit(a terrible example to prove anything, but it is all we have) there seem to be people on both sides of the fence. The math will be adjusted. And its not like the kills give you back towers or raxes, so you can still get an advantage and use it to take objectives. And the new bounty system doesn't give you extra gold when the teams are equal in value So if the other team makes a huge come back and gets a big lead, its because the other team gave it away and then lost more when the field was equal. Its weird because a lot of people complained about stomps and how its hard it is to come back. But clearly there was no problem when they were the one doing the stomping. I disagree with your last point. Most people who seem to be making the argument about comebacks seem to be sub 4.5k mmr (annecdoctal). Just because people think comebacks were previously impossible does not make this true at all. From what I've seen, the difference between higher mmr players is that the mentality, they don't give up and say comebacks are impossible. This should be obvious since all the top streamers almost always had to make those comebacks happen because of how MM worked. My initial impression of this patch is negative because I think it punishes those who made the mistake last rather than who played worse for most of the game. TL;DR the only people who say this is good because of comebacks are probably people who whined and called 15 minute gg in the previous patch and are now trying to act pro. | ||
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
Right now they might be fucked up but you have to see it as a button that Valve/Icefrog can turn to easily balance early game snowballing vs lategame comebacks. Sure they'll probably tone it a bit down in 6.82b in a few weeks/months once the dust settles and it'll be ok. But the point is that they will be able to tune it further in the future patches to adjust the game how they want. Think of it as a tool that they can use in the future. Right now it's fucked up but it's only a numbers problem. | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On September 27 2014 00:09 Aquanim wrote: Having played and won two games so far my opinion is... meh. Compared to the bounty changes, everything else (even the map differences) are pretty much irrelevant I think. As for the bounty changes... one game my team played kind of poorly all game, losing more teamfights than we won and not farming efficiently at all. The other team takes a lane of rax against us, overextends (they didn't fountain dive, but they thought about it) and we wipe them. Game is now even again. We take a very poor fight, lose another lane and a half of rax, leaving us with a single ranged rax and one tier 4. However, they overextend again a little, get wiped, and we push down through t2, t3 and throne mid. To be fair, they played kind of poorly at the end, defending in ones and twos. They threw pretty hard - but that's not my point. My point is that I had the distinct feeling all game that nothing I did in the first 30 minutes actually affected the outcome of the game. In 6.81, my 10 minute ultra kill with Sanity's Eclipse would have had a significant impact on how the rest of the game progressed. In 6.82, I really don't feel like it did. A couple of minutes later I got picked off and, welp, gold and XP lead now evaporated. In short, I just didn't care for most of the game. Got picked off? Doesn't matter, that's just more gold for us the next time we get a kill. Lost a teamfight? Who cares, as long as you don't get hammered so hard the other team can take lots of objectives. You just kind of mess around and both teams build up gold/xp until one team or the other is fat enough to throne. (The other game I played our team had an advantage and more-or-less kept it for the entire game... but I was playing Meepo so I'm not sure how applicable that is in general.) this is what I hate the most, your play doesn't matter for the first 30-40 minutes, its all about what carries they have and who wins the last teamfight | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On September 27 2014 00:07 Asymmetric wrote: You know something very, very odd is going on when Medusa has that high a winrate in pubs. I haven't played with or against Medusa in 6.82 yet, but I think the ystic snake MS buff is pretty damn big. If you look at just the numbers, the spell was nuts for the laning phase already. The problem was that it never hit if you tried to bounce it off a couple creeps. In 6.82 the MS of the snake got increased from 633 to 800, that seems really big, I bet you hit heroes a lot more often now. Her mana shield and the mana steal on the snake also got buffed. And her ult is probably better now, a lot more spells use physical damage now, so they should work better with stone form, right? There also might be something weird going on with how some of the spells that had their damage type changed interact with her mana shield. Stuff like this adds up really quickly, I'm not surprised she's doing well in pubs. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On September 26 2014 22:34 Laserist wrote: I think it is like basketball where when the score difference high, your single scores count as 4-5-6-7 because you are behind. except in basketball, your advantages don't earn you additional edges that add to your speed, agility, or stamina. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On September 27 2014 00:14 BluemoonSC wrote: except in basketball, your advantages don't earn you additional edges that add to your speed, agility, or stamina. Don't bring actual logic into this discussion! What are you doing!!?? | ||
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