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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21493 Should answer all your questions regarding damage calculation...ever. Side story, we actually couldn't figure out the order without extensive testing aka we couldn't just look at code and say this is how its done. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 30 2012 14:41 Judicator wrote: @Nevuk and anyone else curious... http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21493 Should answer all your questions regarding damage calculation...ever. Side story, we actually couldn't figure out the order without extensive testing aka we couldn't just look at code and say this is how its done. Thanks. All of these still hold true in dota 2, correct? I remember there being speculation about Vanguard after tides starting buying it in the international. My only question about damage is where blademail falls. (Say you turn on blademail and get ulted by Necro with 1 hp and have shallow grave on. What happens?) edit : also, #8 is that where AM manabreak falls too? I've noticed diffusal works on ancients but mana break doesn't | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VAPUi.png) Im so sad  First time SK mid and I did so well, even got like 5 solo kills on the SF, but noone wanted to push so they got so farmed up and crushed us | ||
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Corr
Denmark796 Posts
why did you get a bkb? that's where you lost your momentum also pms is a junk item, everyone who needs to discuss whether or not its a good option is playing at a level where saving up for a roh/other better item shouldn't be very difficult. bloodseeker may be the exception but its such a useless hero nowadays... | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
On January 30 2012 18:13 Corr wrote: not enough radiance/hex/shivas/ac why did you get a bkb? that's where you lost your momentum also pms is a junk item, everyone who needs to discuss whether or not its a good option is playing at a level where saving up for a roh/other better item shouldn't be very difficult. bloodseeker may be the exception but its such a useless hero nowadays... I never lost my momentum lol, but I got bkb so i didn't get epi interrupted, which happened a few times b4 i got it. And why would you say pms is a bad item? If you're going to go battlefury and skip vanguard its a great item to pick up, helps in the early game tremendously, and is pretty damn cheap. | ||
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Corr
Denmark796 Posts
On January 30 2012 18:32 PHILtheTANK wrote: I never lost my momentum lol, but I got bkb so i didn't get epi interrupted, which happened a few times b4 i got it. And why would you say pms is a bad item? If you're going to go battlefury and skip vanguard its a great item to pick up, helps in the early game tremendously, and is pretty damn cheap. clearly you lost your momentum if you 5-0'd SF and he still ended up how he did. with proper positioning/timing you shouldn't get epi-interrupted by anything that BKB blocks against that lineup. if you wanna "carry" with SK you need one or more of these items to keep your damage output/teamfight presence otherwise you end up relying way too much on your team. skipping vanguard to get bfury has no relevance, fastest possible roh will always do more for you than a pms in a difficult lane. | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
On January 30 2012 18:38 Corr wrote: clearly you lost your momentum if you 5-0'd SF and he still ended up how he did. with proper positioning/timing you shouldn't get epi-interrupted by anything that BKB blocks against that lineup. if you wanna "carry" with SK you need one or more of these items to keep your damage output/teamfight presence otherwise you end up relying way too much on your team. skipping vanguard to get bfury has no relevance, fastest possible roh will always do more for you than a pms in a difficult lane. He switched lanes after that and went top, and all of his farm came like after the 20 minute mark when we just sat around and did nothing I didn't lose momentum just lost 1 teamfight. And I wasn't trying to carry with sk, just wanted to end the game at like 25 mins but everyone just refused to group up and push. Also I don't know how you can say that about roh/pms when a lot of pros still pick up pms and im fairly certain they probably know what theyre doing. | ||
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Corr
Denmark796 Posts
On January 30 2012 18:53 PHILtheTANK wrote: He switched lanes after that and went top, and all of his farm came like after the 20 minute mark when we just sat around and did nothing I didn't lose momentum just lost 1 teamfight. And I wasn't trying to carry with sk, just wanted to end the game at like 25 mins but everyone just refused to group up and push. Also I don't know how you can say that about roh/pms when a lot of pros still pick up pms and im fairly certain they probably know what theyre doing.losing 1 teamfight playing SK = momentum lost :p going mid with SK/taking charge of the the game = you're trying to "carry", especially with no clear carry on your lineup. if you read carefully you would notice I put a premise for roh/pms. | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
On January 30 2012 18:59 Corr wrote: losing 1 teamfight playing SK = momentum lost :p going mid with SK/taking charge of the the game = you're trying to "carry", especially with no clear carry on your lineup. if you read carefully you would notice I put a premise for roh/pms. I took mid cuz noone else would I just wish people in pubs would push. No matter how much begging everyone just wants to stay in the "laning phase" when we could just finish games by pushing. | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
That's actually blowing my mind...Venge is 1-9 and has 100CK, but still had the money to get a Yasha and 2 mithrils...the game should have been over by 35 mins | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
Sorry dude, hard luck. You just happened to run into some of the few players who don't push with a pushing team. | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
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lozarian
United Kingdom1043 Posts
Not saying always worth doing, but it's certainly a considerable option. | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:34 Hassybaby wrote: Sort of why I never play full pubs; I always sign up for games with at least one mate. Means I play less, but at least I have one reliable guy on the team. Otherwise, I dunno what the solution can be...maybe pick a more game-defining hero? SK is great and all but he doesn't dictate the pace as much as, say. an anti-mage or a dark seer. I also play with a friend a lot, although I wouldn't exactly say he's reliable haha. I random about 90%u of my games(my 2nd game as sk) unless people have already picked then ill pick accordingly. Im just trying to get good at the game and be well rounded, and I have catching up to do because before getting my beta key the last time I had played dota was casually back in like 2005. I started trying to play prophet so I could dictate the pace of the game, but even then people won't push with me or just push so I can split push. Game gets so frustrating sometimes so when that happens I just try and watch vods to get better. | ||
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lozarian
United Kingdom1043 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:34 Hassybaby wrote: Sort of why I never play full pubs; I always sign up for games with at least one mate. Means I play less, but at least I have one reliable guy on the team. Otherwise, I dunno what the solution can be...maybe pick a more game-defining hero? SK is great and all but he doesn't dictate the pace as much as, say. an anti-mage or a dark seer. Really kinda doesnt matter that much, you can have antimage, have 60 cs in 10 minutes, two kills and a tower 1v1 vs a windrunner, and still lose if your team are a bunch of mouth breathers who lose a 2v1 lion/jakiro vs a clinkz and never gank. He said bitterly and without the tiniest bit of personal experience. The way to win pub games in your own is to win your AND EACH OTHER lane. You need a hero that can carry, that wins a lane, and that can gang. This is why furion. | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:50 lozarian wrote: Really kinda doesnt matter that much, you can have antimage, have 60 cs in 10 minutes, two kills and a tower 1v1 vs a windrunner, and still lose if your team are a bunch of mouth breathers who lose a 2v1 lion/jakiro vs a clinkz and never gank. He said bitterly and without the tiniest bit of personal experience. The way to win pub games in your own is to win your AND EACH OTHER lane. You need a hero that can carry, that wins a lane, and that can gang. This is why furion. I was going to mention Furion, but the other team had him  But yes, if you wanna win on your own, Furion is the best hero for that. If your team has 2 possibly competent players in, you can add AM into the mix as well. EDIT: Then again, if I pick, its almost always Engima. Every time I ulti I have Tobi screaming "BLAAACCCKKK HOOOOLLLLEEEE" in my mind  | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2012 18:13 Corr wrote: also pms is a junk item, everyone who needs to discuss whether or not its a good option is playing at a level where saving up for a roh/other better item shouldn't be very difficult. bloodseeker may be the exception but its such a useless hero nowadays... Yup, PMS is a junk item and that's why we see it all the time in competitive play. Oh wait... PMS isn't an item for even/losing lanes. Obviously RoH and health regen are better for that. What PMS does for you is give you a quick, cheap, cost-effective upgrade to a Stout Shield that you will already have anyway that gives a minor boost to your fighting power before a gank or a teamfight. If you've got 300 gold on hand, a teamfight/gank is imminent, and you can't really buy something else, spending that 300 to upgrade to PMS isn't a terrible way to give a minor boost to your strength in that fight. On January 30 2012 19:32 lozarian wrote: For the pms/vanguard debate - consider pms+Sange as an alternative, more raw hp (Sange gives 304), combined with the damage block gives comparable ehp in most situations, plus a Jammy slow can get you a kill, and it builds into halberd now, which is again pretty solid ehp, and screws up any dpsers pretty hard. Not saying always worth doing, but it's certainly a considerable option. Sange is also twice as expensive as Vit Booster. I'd hardly call that a comparison, when it gives 20% more HP, but costs twice as much. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
I also get it on AM/void sometimes if I know that I will get a hard lane. | ||
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