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On November 16 2011 04:48 eatmyshorts5 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:42 sinii wrote:
SO im totally new to Dota, only ever played some LoL. I openly admitted this in my beta survey thingy but still got an invite last night.
So far I have just played some bot games to try to get into it, however the different item system and the various differences is allot to get your head around at first.
Would you suggest I hammer out practice bot games for a long time? Or just dig straight into multiplayer and in all likeliness drag some games down with poor play?
Got to start somewhere right? :< Pick a hero to play, and play a few bot games with it. I suggest lich, cause lich is a really simple hero, i mean it's hard to mess up with lich, so he's a good hero to start out with. Even though this is a DOTA 1 guide, i think it will be quite helpful to read a guide like this one: http://www.playdota.com/guides/without-a-trace-of-warmthYou can look up the guide for any of the other heros here: http://www.playdota.com/guidesHave fun! EDIT: Oh you probably aren't familiar with dota 1 items, you can see what they are here: http://www.playdota.com/itemsEDIT 2: Actually you are better off just reading this: http://www.playdota.com/guides/welcome-to-dota-you-suckObviously skip the stuff that has to do with warcraft 3 dota, (except controls)
Thanks allot for that I will start reading them guides right away, very helpful! I will also take your advise and try to learn as much as I can using Lich for now.
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On November 16 2011 02:13 Zlasher wrote:
Lol 12 minute dagger my ass, if you're properly playing Lion or ES you're not going to steal all the farm from the semicarry/carry in your lane.
Stop with the subtle brags because nobody here actually thinks you're any good. You can try insulting the forum or throwing out these bullshit numbers but nobody knows or cares who you are unless you're playing and winning tournaments.
good post.
it's quite clear he's just talking out of his ass and his dota experience consist of pubs and that's it.
if youre getting a 12min dagger on lion your team is already well behind since you stole so much farm from a more important farm hero.
Zzz.
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On November 16 2011 05:20 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:13 Zlasher wrote:
Lol 12 minute dagger my ass, if you're properly playing Lion or ES you're not going to steal all the farm from the semicarry/carry in your lane.
Stop with the subtle brags because nobody here actually thinks you're any good. You can try insulting the forum or throwing out these bullshit numbers but nobody knows or cares who you are unless you're playing and winning tournaments. good post. it's quite clear he's just talking out of his ass and his dota experience consist of pubs and that's it. if youre getting a 12min dagger on lion your team is already well behind since you stole so much farm from a more important farm hero. Zzz.
This, and Dagger on Lion, As a first item? =/ Yeah, it's good, it can save your hide, but I might make the case to go for something before hand.
Love dat -apem, right ilovelings?
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Ive had games where I've gotten way too many kills on SK and had decent farm in lane and that'll be like 14 minute dagger, but you're not going to get an ES AND a lion getting THAT much farm to both have 12 minute daggers to gank AM that just makes absolutely no sense.
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On November 16 2011 04:34 hideo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:55 Zlasher wrote:
Drow can fight AM if she is more farmed than him but AM farms much faster and much easier. Early and mid game AM will destroy Drow though, its so much easier to shut down a Drow with no real escape mechanisms compared to AM's 50% spell reduction and blink. Do you really think that she develops faster becuase thats something I absolutely disagree with. Yes... her DPS growth totally outshines AM. Drow with treads+yasha around 10+ minutes is a far more dangerous threat than AM at that point in the game.
While true, that isn't really the issue since Drow can't really push towers down without others and can still get nuked down by teammates. Once 20 minutes hits AM starts becoming a real problem, a farmed Drow can do something but she can't stop AM from farming very quickly.
On November 16 2011 05:30 Jitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:20 crms wrote:On November 16 2011 02:13 Zlasher wrote:
Lol 12 minute dagger my ass, if you're properly playing Lion or ES you're not going to steal all the farm from the semicarry/carry in your lane.
Stop with the subtle brags because nobody here actually thinks you're any good. You can try insulting the forum or throwing out these bullshit numbers but nobody knows or cares who you are unless you're playing and winning tournaments. good post. it's quite clear he's just talking out of his ass and his dota experience consist of pubs and that's it. if youre getting a 12min dagger on lion your team is already well behind since you stole so much farm from a more important farm hero. Zzz. This, and Dagger on Lion, As a first item? =/ Yeah, it's good, it can save your hide, but I might make the case to go for something before hand. Love dat -apem, right ilovelings?
if lion solos a lane fast dagger is not infeasible in 12 minutes, however on ES i would wonder who is not getting the farm  . the only problem with a fast dagger lion is that he is still somewhat paper, which can be an issue
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He's saying he regularly gets Treads Dagger and is constantly warding 12 minutes into the game. No matter how you look at it that's not realistically ever happening. Sure you can get the farm if you get every creep and get a kill or two, but Lion shouldn't be farming like that anyways, and if he's constantly moving back and forth warding the rivers then he WON'T be killing every creep wave and getting that farm.
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On November 16 2011 11:09 Zlasher wrote:
He's saying he regularly gets Treads Dagger and is constantly warding 12 minutes into the game. No matter how you look at it that's not realistically ever happening. Sure you can get the farm if you get every creep and get a kill or two, but Lion shouldn't be farming like that anyways, and if he's constantly moving back and forth warding the rivers then he WON'T be killing every creep wave and getting that farm.
true . that or hes playing bads every game lol (1450 + 2150 + 3x200 and probably a Bottle), thats actually much harder than a 12 minute sacred relic
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I'm not sure why anyone is even arguing with a guy whose position on AM balance is: "It's no big deal, dude, just free-farm with Lion for like 13 minutes and then you can just gank AM whenever with your 15 minute dagger, orchid, sheepstick combo."
I haven't heard anyone whose opinion and reasoning were respectable saying that AM is completely fine as is.
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AM is completely fine as a hero. It is the other factors that makes AM a strong pick now.
I've been watching competitive Dota since a long long time ago and witnessed the evolution of strategies employed in DotA.
For anyone who has been watching competitive DotA. You'd notice the Gank style evolve to 1-carry strategies, then the 3-core comes up, then to the PL/Drow right-click era, to the Tanky Alchemist era, then to one-shot morphling, fat syllabear.
Sure, maybe they received nerfs. But the thing is, teams changed the way they execute their games in order to snuff out the strategy of the other team. I, for one was surprised how quickly syllabear became a mainstay of the game right now. When competitive teams introduced it, everyone was saying "pub pick".
Right now, I'd say that with the current hero pool and the way top teams are executing in order to aid AM carry's farming situation, AM definitely seems to be very strong.
TLDR: Give teams time to innovate and analyze what other factors make AM such a strong hero. Who knows one day, Slark becomes a viable pick because teams are able to create a good farming environment for slark to farm sufficiently to overcome his HP issue and become a DPS machine.
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On November 16 2011 12:37 s_side wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone is even arguing with a guy whose position on AM balance is: "It's no big deal, dude, just free-farm with Lion for like 13 minutes and then you can just gank AM whenever with your 15 minute dagger, orchid, sheepstick combo."
I haven't heard anyone whose opinion and reasoning were respectable saying that AM is completely fine as is.
I dunno, there are people who think he's not THAT broken though. Most agree on some nerfs, but some teams actually give him to other teams because they find it easier to counter it.
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On November 16 2011 13:56 5-s wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 12:37 s_side wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone is even arguing with a guy whose position on AM balance is: "It's no big deal, dude, just free-farm with Lion for like 13 minutes and then you can just gank AM whenever with your 15 minute dagger, orchid, sheepstick combo."
I haven't heard anyone whose opinion and reasoning were respectable saying that AM is completely fine as is.
I dunno, there are people who think he's not THAT broken though. Most agree on some nerfs, but some teams actually give him to other teams because they find it easier to counter it.
He really isn't completely broken, but in the current DotA2 hero pool he is. The lack of other first-pick quality heroes that have been ported over makes his broken-ness stand out though.
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Plus since the only mode in matchmaking is all pick you don't even get a chance to ban him right now. Does he need nerfs? I mean...I would hope that fucking spell shield is nerfed because half damage on alls pells is just stupid if you ask me, but more if he's not nerfed and they just give us the proper heroes like SD Invoker OD and whatever else then I'll be content I think.
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am isnt overpowered...
maybe in the state dota is in right now (not all the heroes have been included) but once all the heroes are this will change.
and i basically can guarantee you that there wont be buffs/nerfs until then. (unless the original dota gets an update)
oh and imo the lion 12min dagger is not AS unusual but he would have to play solo mid for that.
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On November 16 2011 15:58 paschl wrote:
am isnt overpowered...
maybe in the state dota is in right now (not all the heroes have been included) but once all the heroes are this will change.
and i basically can guarantee you that there wont be buffs/nerfs until then. (unless the original dota gets an update)
oh and imo the lion 12min dagger is not AS unusual but he would have to play solo mid for that.
Thats exactly what I'm saying though. More important than if he's OP or needs nerfs is that we need the right heroes to stop him first.
And once again, 12 minute dagger is possible if you're solo free farming, but theres no way you get treads dagger and constant warding in 12 minutes, while helping your carry farm and level up.
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On November 16 2011 16:52 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 15:58 paschl wrote:
am isnt overpowered...
maybe in the state dota is in right now (not all the heroes have been included) but once all the heroes are this will change.
and i basically can guarantee you that there wont be buffs/nerfs until then. (unless the original dota gets an update)
oh and imo the lion 12min dagger is not AS unusual but he would have to play solo mid for that. Thats exactly what I'm saying though. More important than if he's OP or needs nerfs is that we need the right heroes to stop him first. And once again, 12 minute dagger is possible if you're solo free farming, but theres no way you get treads dagger and constant warding in 12 minutes, while helping your carry farm and level up.
thats the point, a solo mid lion doesnt have a carry on lane to support. and he usually doesnt get the wards either.
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On November 16 2011 16:56 paschl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 16:52 Zlasher wrote:On November 16 2011 15:58 paschl wrote:
am isnt overpowered...
maybe in the state dota is in right now (not all the heroes have been included) but once all the heroes are this will change.
and i basically can guarantee you that there wont be buffs/nerfs until then. (unless the original dota gets an update)
oh and imo the lion 12min dagger is not AS unusual but he would have to play solo mid for that. Thats exactly what I'm saying though. More important than if he's OP or needs nerfs is that we need the right heroes to stop him first. And once again, 12 minute dagger is possible if you're solo free farming, but theres no way you get treads dagger and constant warding in 12 minutes, while helping your carry farm and level up. thats the point, a solo mid lion doesnt have a carry on lane to support. and he usually doesnt get the wards either.
lion maybe, lion and es both...no fing way
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United States47024 Posts
On November 16 2011 13:56 5-s wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 12:37 s_side wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone is even arguing with a guy whose position on AM balance is: "It's no big deal, dude, just free-farm with Lion for like 13 minutes and then you can just gank AM whenever with your 15 minute dagger, orchid, sheepstick combo."
I haven't heard anyone whose opinion and reasoning were respectable saying that AM is completely fine as is.
I dunno, there are people who think he's not THAT broken though. Most agree on some nerfs, but some teams actually give him to other teams because they find it easier to counter it.
Who's saying he needs nerfs?
It's completely senseless to nerf anyone until they've ported over the whole (or at least the majority of) the hero pool. And by then, I doubt Antimage will be as much of a problem as he is now.
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On November 16 2011 20:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 13:56 5-s wrote:On November 16 2011 12:37 s_side wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone is even arguing with a guy whose position on AM balance is: "It's no big deal, dude, just free-farm with Lion for like 13 minutes and then you can just gank AM whenever with your 15 minute dagger, orchid, sheepstick combo."
I haven't heard anyone whose opinion and reasoning were respectable saying that AM is completely fine as is.
I dunno, there are people who think he's not THAT broken though. Most agree on some nerfs, but some teams actually give him to other teams because they find it easier to counter it. Who's saying he needs nerfs? It's completely senseless to nerf anyone until they've ported over the whole (or at least the majority of) the hero pool. And by then, I doubt Antimage will be as much of a problem as he is now.
Got to agree with Yango, i highly doubt they are gonna touch any balance issues or what not until they have finished their game. As of right now expect only bug fixes, more hero ports, and new features instead of balance fixing.
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On November 16 2011 20:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 13:56 5-s wrote:On November 16 2011 12:37 s_side wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone is even arguing with a guy whose position on AM balance is: "It's no big deal, dude, just free-farm with Lion for like 13 minutes and then you can just gank AM whenever with your 15 minute dagger, orchid, sheepstick combo."
I haven't heard anyone whose opinion and reasoning were respectable saying that AM is completely fine as is.
I dunno, there are people who think he's not THAT broken though. Most agree on some nerfs, but some teams actually give him to other teams because they find it easier to counter it. Who's saying he needs nerfs? It's completely senseless to nerf anyone until they've ported over the whole (or at least the majority of) the hero pool. And by then, I doubt Antimage will be as much of a problem as he is now.
Yea people are merely saying AM in current dota 2 pool is hard to counter so it stands to reason it should be banned out. Not that it's some kind of OP hero that needs re balancing in order to work. This mindset of something being strong thus it must be nerfed and we can't think of other ways to deal with it is just terrible :<
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I'm a HoN-Player and started playing Dota 2 now. I am not used to some items, on which heroes do you usually get:
Urn of Shadows
Medallion of Courage
Ethereal Blade
Veil of Discord
Thanks
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EPT
