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General Discussion - Page 263

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
March 21 2012 18:37 GMT
#5241
On March 22 2012 03:33 MrCon wrote:
I don't understand the reasoning behind linken being standard on morphling. I mean, all his skills are escape mechanisms basically. Why it's standard on him and not on comparable heroes which don't even have half his escape power ?

the regen, he has a spell called morph that helps him tank (most) spells when he wants to, so unless he's getting mega disabled in teamfights he can get by with linkens and its excellent regen properties. previously urn and medallion would just own that item but not so anymore in the latest patch.
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Dubzex
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6994 Posts
March 21 2012 18:41 GMT
#5242
On March 22 2012 03:37 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2012 03:33 MrCon wrote:
I don't understand the reasoning behind linken being standard on morphling. I mean, all his skills are escape mechanisms basically. Why it's standard on him and not on comparable heroes which don't even have half his escape power ?

the regen, he has a spell called morph that helps him tank (most) spells when he wants to, so unless he's getting mega disabled in teamfights he can get by with linkens and its excellent regen properties. previously urn and medallion would just own that item but not so anymore in the latest patch.

It also gives both strength and agility so he has more options as far as which direction he wishes to morph towards.
"DONT UNDERESTIMATE MY CARRY OR YOU WILL BE CARRIED INTO THE ABYSS OF SUFFERING" - Tyler 'TC' Cook
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
March 21 2012 18:44 GMT
#5243
On March 22 2012 03:41 Dubzex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2012 03:37 rabidch wrote:
On March 22 2012 03:33 MrCon wrote:
I don't understand the reasoning behind linken being standard on morphling. I mean, all his skills are escape mechanisms basically. Why it's standard on him and not on comparable heroes which don't even have half his escape power ?

the regen, he has a spell called morph that helps him tank (most) spells when he wants to, so unless he's getting mega disabled in teamfights he can get by with linkens and its excellent regen properties. previously urn and medallion would just own that item but not so anymore in the latest patch.

It also gives both strength and agility so he has more options as far as which direction he wishes to morph towards.

while its true he does get more stats, the main point is to be able to shrug off initiation disables. the alternative is BKB which people get for more extreme situations or playing from behind. it's not so much the stats but the fact that you can get away with split pushing a lot easier with items that help you not get disabled since you can just replicate/tp/run away while morphing to strength
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Tryhat
Profile Joined March 2012
160 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-21 18:48:47
March 21 2012 18:47 GMT
#5244
On March 22 2012 03:33 MrCon wrote:
I don't understand the reasoning behind linken being standard on morphling. I mean, all his skills are escape mechanisms basically. Why it's standard on him and not on comparable heroes which don't even have half his escape power ?


The HP regen is good for staying in lane, the MP regen is great for his waveform/morph. He is also the hero that benefits the most from items that give +x to all stats (until he has sufficient mana, and until he runs out of his str buffer), so the ultimate orb provides pretty good value in itself. And with Linkens he won't be surprise stunned from a Mirana arrow or a blink stunner, so he will always have time to use Morph to practically heal himself for 150 HP/sec (you can't activate Morph while stunned, but it works while stunned if you activate it before getting stunned), or to replicate away.
scorch-
Profile Joined January 2011
United States816 Posts
March 21 2012 18:59 GMT
#5245
On March 22 2012 03:47 Tryhat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2012 03:33 MrCon wrote:
I don't understand the reasoning behind linken being standard on morphling. I mean, all his skills are escape mechanisms basically. Why it's standard on him and not on comparable heroes which don't even have half his escape power ?


He is also the hero that benefits the most from items that give +x to all stats (until he has sufficient mana, and until he runs out of his str buffer), so the ultimate orb provides pretty good value in itself.


Why do you say that +X to all stats benefits morph more than any other hero?
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
March 21 2012 18:59 GMT
#5246
Because he can change the stats from agi to str or from str to agi at will.
WriterXiao8~~
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-21 19:07:22
March 21 2012 19:05 GMT
#5247
On March 22 2012 03:59 Kipsate wrote:
Because he can change the stats from agi to str or from str to agi at will.

Only your base stats. You can't morph itemized Agi/Str.

Morphling does make full use of all 3 stats (there are a lot of Str/Agi heroes that pass a point where they don't need more mana, and there are a lot of Int heroes that don't need IAS from Agi). But he's also not the only hero to do so.
Moderator
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
March 21 2012 19:06 GMT
#5248
is it just me or CLG is more succesful when they pick a carry focus line up than a ganking/pushing line up?
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
March 21 2012 19:07 GMT
#5249
On March 22 2012 04:05 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2012 03:59 Kipsate wrote:
Because he can change the stats from agi to str or from str to agi at will.

Only your base stats. You can't morph itemized Agi/Str.

No, but it allows you to morph more of your base stats, if he gets +10 str he can morph +10 str from his base stats to agility, there is obviously a limit too it though.
WriterXiao8~~
scorch-
Profile Joined January 2011
United States816 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-21 19:08:58
March 21 2012 19:07 GMT
#5250
On March 22 2012 03:59 Kipsate wrote:
Because he can change the stats from agi to str or from str to agi at will.


But you can't morph stats from items, so how does that skill mean that +10 stats benefits him more than other heroes?

e: I guess my point is that +10 to all stats is great on any hero that needs str, int, and agi.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 21 2012 19:08 GMT
#5251
On March 22 2012 04:07 Kipsate wrote:
No, but it allows you to morph more of your base stats, if he gets +10 str he can morph +10 str from his base stats to agility, there is obviously a limit too it though.

Yes, but that doesn't need to be *stats*.

For the purpose of Morph, there's no reason that having Strength is better than having HP. Strength isn't inherently a better stat for Morphling just because of Morph.
Moderator
Qbek
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Poland12923 Posts
March 21 2012 19:11 GMT
#5252
Getting 10 agi and 10 strenght with an ultimate orb is 2100(let's ignore the int for a sec) and getting 20 of either would be something similar in cost(varies depending on how you get it) and linits your possibilities at the same time.

Anyway, the hero that gets the most out of +X to all stats is medusa
This space left intentionally dank /)3(\ http://i.imgur.com/RmeEUcF.png
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
March 21 2012 19:22 GMT
#5253
Medusa needs buffs

WriterXiao8~~
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
March 21 2012 19:23 GMT
#5254
morph 'no stat' build: MoM buriza = GG
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
March 21 2012 19:36 GMT
#5255
you and medusa i swear
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Tryhat
Profile Joined March 2012
160 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-21 19:40:25
March 21 2012 19:37 GMT
#5256
On March 22 2012 04:08 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2012 04:07 Kipsate wrote:
No, but it allows you to morph more of your base stats, if he gets +10 str he can morph +10 str from his base stats to agility, there is obviously a limit too it though.

Yes, but that doesn't need to be *stats*.

For the purpose of Morph, there's no reason that having Strength is better than having HP. Strength isn't inherently a better stat for Morphling just because of Morph.


Ok... But an ultimate orb doesn't give HP, and no one has mentioned that, so I have no idea why you bring it up. Armor/magic resistance is also better on Morphling. Does that invalidate what I say about +x to all stats is better on Morphling than on any other hero? Nope.

And yes, strength is a better stat for Morphling than other heroes precisely because of Morph. If you could buy Power Treads on Spectre that give +10 str and you can't change it into agi, would you rather do that than buy the sort that can be changed into agi? Would you say the latter sort is better? If you do, then I don't see why you can't agree that str is better on Morph than on other agi heroes.

And for those saying that Morphling can't morph stats from items... I already mention that in my first post. I said he has a buffer from which he can morph so up to a certain point where he runs out of base str/agi there is no difference from actually morphing stats from items.

Also, when I said an ultimate orb is better for him than for any other hero, I also meant the int which he needs desperately.
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7596 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-21 19:40:03
March 21 2012 19:39 GMT
#5257
Morphling needs a defensive item, which supplies +manapool, and +mana regen. Linkens is the only option in the pool of choices. Since he has two high-damage spammable spells, and a 3rd "Morph" which is high usage of mana. A unique hero, which is not so dependant on +damage items since he can morph all his stats into Agility, he just needs regen + a defensive item to always stay in the fray and just smash people.

**Hypothetical**
Imagine if Anti-Mage got remade/nerfed, Mana Break costs 10 mana a swing(Only applies when attacking to Heroes), Blink costs +40 mana (up to 100 as Morphling), and his Aura changed to 50% effectiveness, with an on use which brings it to 100% (current) effectiveness, for a mana cost to maintain.

His defense+offensive would be dependant on his mana at this point. BFury+Vlads +Manta or Linkens + Manta + Vlads would be the new standard. (Probably Linkens -->)
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
March 21 2012 20:20 GMT
#5258
On March 22 2012 04:22 Kipsate wrote:
Medusa needs buffs


she's still quite buff due to a few changes (stone gaze, linkens, split shot).
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Tevinhead
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom470 Posts
March 21 2012 20:27 GMT
#5259
- Stolen from reddit but, extremely interesting dark seer jungle guide. Never saw anything like this in DOTA 1.
Candadar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
2049 Posts
March 21 2012 20:28 GMT
#5260
I'm curious, other than Morphling, who Linken is really good on? I realize it's a situational item, much like many items are -- but I see so many people saying Linkens is so good on Morph and I was wondering if there was anyone else? It's such an interesting item and I'm just wondering why it isn't used far more often.
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