On March 19 2012 18:34 -Archangel- wrote: Since I know I will get flamed if I ask this question on LoL section of TL let me try here. Can anyone explain to me what makes HoN and Dota1/2 more esports and more competitive then LoL (I only played Dota1 for about 1 year)?
All I know is that LoL does not have deny and I personally I don't like its graphics (although that has nothing to do with being competitive).
Are they more competitive, though?
I personally would say that the game's faster-paced because of runes and also because of more powerful CC and weaker towers. I'd also say that it's more difficult mechanically because of controlling more characters and also because of many more active skills on items.
However I wouldn't say LoL is less competitive. Like in the west I'd call SC2 more competitive than SCBW simply because of the amount of players.
By the way you obviously shouldn't listen to this person:
On March 19 2012 18:34 -Archangel- wrote: Since I know I will get flamed if I ask this question on LoL section of TL let me try here. Can anyone explain to me what makes HoN and Dota1/2 more esports and more competitive then LoL (I only played Dota1 for about 1 year)?
All I know is that LoL does not have deny and I personally I don't like its graphics (although that has nothing to do with being competitive).
From my understanding LoL is very static in laning always same ways to lane, very low kill counts since kills doesn't help much (you don't lose gold etc if you die) and every hero has free blink dagger, very bad juke mechanic in DotA there's night time, trees etc while LoL just has some bushes you can go into and become invisible. No denies = can't control lanes properly only thing u can do is zoning. And like neutral creeps are very important and gives auras to your whole team so you fight neutrals more than heroes very fun!
I have never played LoL only watched one final and this is what I got + from reading some comments so take with grain of salt as its not 100% accurate it was just very boring + I dont like the graphics etc..
Or others who think they know something about LoL because they saw it played once. This is all just completely incorrect.
On March 19 2012 19:09 Catch]22 wrote: The thing is the players, I'hve been watching all 3 for a long time, and the dotaplayers are so much better it boggles your mind.
Oh I should have mentioned this as well and it's completely true. I think it's got something to do with it being a newer game but it still amazes me just how bad some of the top players are
On March 19 2012 19:09 Catch]22 wrote: The thing is the players, I'hve been watching all 3 for a long time, and the dotaplayers are so much better it boggles your mind.
Oh I should have mentioned this as well and it's completely true. I think it's got something to do with it being a newer game but it still amazes me just how bad some of the top players are
I watched a "pro" LoL game the other day where 3 heroes towerdive vs 1, and all 3 died to tower fire, while the 1 flashed away. Does that sort of thing happen often?
In terms of being a spectator sport, lol is just not as interesting to watch as Dota IMO. And this is coming from a person who started with lol. It's fun to play, but boring to watch. Very little variation in laning phase and team composition. Very hard to gank due to short lanes and strong towers. This means few kills in the laning phase. It's not uncommon to be 0-0 at the 10 minute mark. Combine that with what some say is an even stronger snowballing effect than Dota, and IMO the games aren't as fun to watch.
On March 19 2012 18:34 -Archangel- wrote: Since I know I will get flamed if I ask this question on LoL section of TL let me try here. Can anyone explain to me what makes HoN and Dota1/2 more esports and more competitive then LoL (I only played Dota1 for about 1 year)?
All I know is that LoL does not have deny and I personally I don't like its graphics (although that has nothing to do with being competitive).
In LoL you have Baron, the Baron buff is much, much more powerfull then the Roshan aegis, leading to a 5v5 standoff in the middle/near baron where both teams poke around, since there is no ability to tp quickly into baron(bar teleport,shen/tf ulti) this leads to a standoff in the middle, one can not just splitpush pretty much for fear of losing Baron. No buyback only ads to this problem.
LoL has infinite wards and only a couple ganking angles for both top and bottom lane, wards are relativly cheap,(esp if you have gp10 quints, which yo should have as a support), LoL also has flash for escaping and no smoke of deceit. Smoke of Deceit allows you to quickly bypass wards and gank.
Dota also has arguablly a more variety in picks, putting pressure on either side, some heroes can outcarry others, and each hero has more unique abilities, some of which are ''overpowered'' and heroes can be amplified greatly by getting for example blink dagger, LoL doesn't have these overpowerd abilities such as Black Hole, Ravage, Epicenter. LoL items are also far more static and are mostly stat improvements, whereas Dota has Force Staff, Mekansm, Pipe, Drums, Arcane Boots Necromonicon, Blink Dagger, Guinsoo and BKB, granted LoL has Shurelays and now Locket, most of the items in LoL are frankly just stat improvements, the aforementioned dota items and their power lead to strategic play where you, if you have them, your heroes are far, far stronger.
LoL also suffers from the bruiser top, jungle, ap mid, AD+Support bottom setup, which riot tries to enforce, granted M5 has tried to change it up a bit with a roaming cow as of recent but most if not all games are the same setup.
Also, getting killed in LoL is actually very bad, because LoL tends to snowball alot, if you get killed in the bot lane and they take dragon, they are very far ahead of you and its incredibly hard to come back. Dota has more comebacks due to the aforementioned factors.
Note, its just my opinion but this is why personally I find Dota to be more competitive then LoL, although LoL can be fun to watch sometimes(noteably the M5 LoL team games).
On March 19 2012 19:21 Kipsate wrote: LoL also suffers from the bruiser top, jungle, ap mid, AD+Support bottom setup, which riot tries to enforce, granted M5 has tried to change it up a bit with a roaming cow as of recent but most if not all games are the same setup.
I've watched a few LoL events between this year and last year, this is what bugs me the most. You are suggesting riot enforces this stale laning but why would they do so? I don't get it. It takes most of the enjoyment away from me knowing every single game is going to see the same setup. Even the drafting seems a bit dumbed down.
On March 19 2012 19:13 ControlMonkey wrote: In terms of being a spectator sport, lol is just not as interesting to watch as Dota IMO. And this is coming from a person who started with lol. It's fun to play, but boring to watch. Very little variation in laning phase and team composition. Very hard to gank due to short lanes and strong towers. This means few kills in the laning phase. It's not uncommon to be 0-0 at the 10 minute mark. Combine that with what some say is an even stronger snowballing effect than Dota, and IMO the games aren't as fun to watch.
Pretty much this. Also, in dota your abilities can have much more impact - if black hole hits 5 people, that is huge and can likely win a teamfight. Compare this to LoL, where everyone gets really tanky due to the nature of how MR and armor works in LoL, disables are harder to come by, so everyone can basically rely on getting everything off.
Also, riot just makes every character the same. Recently every bruiser has a gap closer, every AP has a stun or similar, ect. Compare this to DotA - a recent example of good design decisions is shaodw fiend. He has trouble surviving ganks, hence he was not being used. But they didn't give his an escape mechanism or more life - they just buffed his strengths. This might make him viable in sidelanes with support, or the risk/reward improving might make it worth it to put him mid still. Sometimes a mechanic is broken (like darkseer's allied illusions), and need to be removed, but don't it if you can avoid it.
I realised I hated Riot after they changed an item because of dominion, when there are plenty of other items that had already been removed. They also can't make up their mind on whether to balance for nubs or not - nerfing competitive heroes like morde and xin, yet other huge pubstompers *cough trynd cough* weren't touched at all (I understand nerfing really big pubstompers, but only if they do it consistently, otherwise what is the point?). I also heard the butchered the jungle and removed dodge for no reason (jax was my second favourite hero T.T).
On March 19 2012 19:21 Kipsate wrote: LoL also suffers from the bruiser top, jungle, ap mid, AD+Support bottom setup, which riot tries to enforce, granted M5 has tried to change it up a bit with a roaming cow as of recent but most if not all games are the same setup.
I've watched a few LoL events between this year and last year, this is what bugs me the most. You are suggesting riot enforces this stale laning but why would they do so? I don't get it. It takes most of the enjoyment away from me knowing every single game is going to see the same setup. Even the drafting seems a bit dumbed down.
I don't know why, previously there were some pushing oriented strats if I am not mistaken but they were nerfed(if i am wrong on this feel free to correct me)
Things forgot to say
Towers hit like trucks in Dota, they hit like Freight treins in LoL, making diving very hard. There is also the option for TP in Dota, this enables counterganks, if someone dives your tower in Dota, beware the TP support, not only the tower itself, this allows for faster and more of a fun spectatorship experience, LoL doesn't have TP scrolls.
Dota also has a Day/Night cycle and knows a more complicated map, complemented with tree vision, trees abilities to be destroyed, high ground, aside from this , runes are powerfull tools for ganking granted the right one(Haste/invis) or powerfull tools overall(even illusion)
The LoL map has brushes instead, which function different.
Either way, which game you like is up to you for personal preference, but for all the reason I stated, I find Dota to be a far more friendly spectator sport, complemented by the casting of Tobi.Tobi makes Dota alot more exciting, sometimes more exciting then it really is, which is only a good thing.
I am ofcourse, hugely biased in my statements, just to let you know.
it seems the metagame now for invoker is to go exort over quas wex to get the 2 forge spirits up and push fast, but watching the techlabs showcase and the hero composition, wouldn't it have been better for invoker to go quas wex for that initiation? dts' lineup had mad scary aoe damage potential with black hole, echo slam, vacuum + dark wall, freezing field (if required, EMP, deafening blast
also the recent techlabs showcase, i felt that invoker was really useless throughout the whole match ;S and i question the item choice of necrobook
honestly i never felt that necrobook was that good an item, unless late game you needed true sight and didn't have slot for gem or preferred book over gem, so why would anyone get it?
On March 19 2012 21:11 konadora wrote: also the recent techlabs showcase, i felt that invoker was really useless throughout the whole match ;S and i question the item choice of necrobook
honestly i never felt that necrobook was that good an item, unless late game you needed true sight and didn't have slot for gem or preferred book over gem, so why would anyone get it?
it is a great pushing item, especially with beastmaster since they attack ultra fast
and for those who didnt bother to check who they're playing, it's various chinese players/teams. pub style scrims but i guess some people will want to watch them
EPT
