EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 234
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Antoine
United States7481 Posts
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[wh]_ForAlways
United States235 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
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mdma-_-
Nauru1213 Posts
On March 16 2012 10:48 NB wrote: well sadly, dota is a team game... its not like you can just hold ursa jungle 30 mins and came out beyond godlike carry all the thing. 1 wrong decision from an individual could easily lead to a 5 men down fall. Not even counting most of the time kuroky play under carry or semi-carry role which make his decision making even more costly. We all know how good he is but look at how fail gosugamer team did in the international... gosugamers team was a joke at the international cos they had a roster reshuffle 2 weeks before gamescom and barely trained dota2. | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
On March 16 2012 12:19 PHILtheTANK wrote: Watching demon play shadow demon on stream right now... most of the time when new heroes come out I can basically understand what's going on after like 3 mins of watching... I have no idea wtf this hero is doing with all this wave shit. I need to look him up lol. From what I gathered just from watching Demon like you is the waves add stacks. At any point you can detonate those stacks and depending how many were on something is how much damage is done. That's pretty much all I've figured out. That and the banish clones whoever was banished after they come out....i think lol. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 16 2012 12:19 PHILtheTANK wrote: Watching demon play shadow demon on stream right now... most of the time when new heroes come out I can basically understand what's going on after like 3 mins of watching... I have no idea wtf this hero is doing with all this wave shit. I need to look him up lol. disruption is basically a banish for a few seconds, then makes strong clones of whatever that was banished (heroes only) soul catcher is a ground ability that amps damage of a random unit within it, best used when the one you want is only in it since the selection is completely random, so you can target a side area to catch that hero poison wave sends a wave of poison, they will take some initial damage, but their poison counter will go up, the poison counter is exponential multiplier for 4 stacks and then just linear after that (on the 5th stack), but it doesnt matter it does a lot of damage, but you have to get these stacks first. his ultimate is a single target purge with the slow, that does nuke damage once the slow runs off. his combo is basically wave(optimal) disruption, then time a wave hit as soon as hero comes out of disruption, soul catcher, then ultimate, then wave again. this combo probably does about 800-1000 damage to a single target at level 7 if you hit all waves + autoattacks in between. if you hit the 4th stack here, it does about 260 more damage than what i said, but it can be hard solo to hit that 4th stack. disruption can be used defensively or offensively, just think of it as a super-euls, works very well with force staff to save people | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
On March 16 2012 13:12 rabidch wrote: disruption is basically a banish for a few seconds, then makes strong clones of whatever that was banished (heroes only) soul catcher is a ground ability that amps damage of a random unit within it, best used when the one you want is only in it since the selection is completely random, so you can target a side area to catch that hero poison wave sends a wave of poison, they will take some initial damage, but their poison counter will go up, the poison counter is exponential for about a handful of stacks and then just linear after that, but it doesnt matter it does a lot of damage, but you have to get these stacks first. his ultimate is a single target purge with the slow, that does nuke damage once the slow runs off. his combo is basically wave(optimal) disruption, then time a wave hit as soon as hero comes out of disruption, soul catcher, then ultimate, then wave again. this combo probably does about 800-1000 damage to a single target at level 7 if you hit all waves + autoattacks in between disruption can be used defensively or offensively, just think of it as a super-euls, works very well with force staff to save people cool man thanks for the info! | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
Also, honestly Kuroky has played well when we've seen him but he isn't deserving of just hopping onto a #1 sort of skilled team from the get go at this stage. I think thats pretty selfish/conceited of him to think that a team should cater to him rather than him being actively out there with a team and working them up to a top spot along with Na'vi. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
His dota1 peak came when his teammates played a 4-1 style, gave him all farm and all carrying possibility. One of the best examples of a team with an archetypal carry and he really shined in this role at a very young age. So ya he probably isn't deserving, but you can see where his mindset is coming from. Also rabid/yango solve a dispute pls: Solo SD skill build different than laning sd build? And at level 5 maxed disrupt or 1-1-3? Obviously variables taken into account. Do you have a lane where you can go aggressive etc When you are level 5, isn't the theoretical most damage you can do based off a max disrupt build? With 2 in soul and one in poison? Ofc your image damage will be different based on hero and ranged/melee etc... thanks | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Level 1 first blood vs weaver mid -> stack Shadow Poison 7 times and activate, died from above half hp In teamfights enemy has fed antimage -> NP, Q him and the illusions kill him during my ulti trolo~ Got arcane boots mekansm and pipe and in the midgame we just pushed mid for like 5min until we killed their throne, everytime their carry engaged I just QWE -> R'd him and he died to his own illusions while I spammed E from a distance and dealt a million billion damage. I think it ended like 10-1-20 for me In short: Shadow Demon seems fun. | ||
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SirSongBird
4 Posts
On March 16 2012 13:47 Shikyo wrote: I tried Shadow Demon for the first time ever now! And holy shit he seemed imba O_O Level 1 first blood vs weaver mid -> stack Shadow Poison 7 times and activate, died from above half hp In teamfights enemy has fed antimage -> NP, Q him and the illusions kill him during my ulti trolo~ Got arcane boots mekansm and pipe and in the midgame we just pushed mid for like 5min until we killed their throne, everytime their carry engaged I just QWE -> R'd him and he died to his own illusions while I spammed E from a distance and dealt a million billion damage. I think it ended like 10-1-20 for me In short: Shadow Demon seems fun. Probably gonna see him banned in major tourny along with prophet, and such | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 16 2012 13:47 Shikyo wrote: I tried Shadow Demon for the first time ever now! And holy shit he seemed imba O_O Level 1 first blood vs weaver mid -> stack Shadow Poison 7 times and activate, died from above half hp In teamfights enemy has fed antimage -> NP, Q him and the illusions kill him during my ulti trolo~ Got arcane boots mekansm and pipe and in the midgame we just pushed mid for like 5min until we killed their throne, everytime their carry engaged I just QWE -> R'd him and he died to his own illusions while I spammed E from a distance and dealt a million billion damage. I think it ended like 10-1-20 for me In short: Shadow Demon seems fun. how anybody would allow himself to get 7 stacks of shadow poison is beyond me. thats like getting 7 stacks of napalm :/ On March 16 2012 13:35 Ack1027 wrote: It's was reinforced in his brain for pretty much an entire year of comp dota at euro's highest level. Not to mention he was taken under wing of great leaders like Puppey. His dota1 peak came when his teammates played a 4-1 style, gave him all farm and all carrying possibility. One of the best examples of a team with an archetypal carry and he really shined in this role at a very young age. So ya he probably isn't deserving, but you can see where his mindset is coming from. Also rabid/yango solve a dispute pls: Solo SD skill build different than laning sd build? And at level 5 maxed disrupt or 1-1-3? Obviously variables taken into account. Do you have a lane where you can go aggressive etc When you are level 5, isn't the theoretical most damage you can do based off a max disrupt build? With 2 in soul and one in poison? Ofc your image damage will be different based on hero and ranged/melee etc... thanks depends on the lane and how disruption follows up. higher disruption can do more damage, especially if they're ranged illusions, but if you have a couple other slows and disables you can get 3, even 4, stacks pretty easy-- level 1 shadow poison has awful stack damage. if you're defensive sometimes its better to get the poison first so you can fend off pushes, but against most aggressive lineups get disruption. just depends. | ||
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EZjijy
United States1039 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 16 2012 14:10 rabidch wrote: how anybody would allow himself to get 7 stacks of shadow poison is beyond me. thats like getting 7 stacks of napalm :/ High quality progames at 6am (got to assume he had never seen shadow demon before, after getting bursted for a billion dmg though he played alot more carefully) | ||
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MaV_gGSC
Canada1345 Posts
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
On March 16 2012 13:35 Ack1027 wrote: Solo SD skill build different than laning sd build? And at level 5 maxed disrupt or 1-1-3? Obviously variables taken into account. Do you have a lane where you can go aggressive etc When you are level 5, isn't the theoretical most damage you can do based off a max disrupt build? With 2 in soul and one in poison? Ofc your image damage will be different based on hero and ranged/melee etc... sd pretty much always goes 1141 > 1441 in mid trilanes seem a little more variable, i've seen 4401 and 1411 as well as the standard 1141 max damage is definitely off a max poison build; you're pretty much guaranteed 3 stacks off of disrupt/ult, and if you can sneak in another stack either before or after the combo it's going to kill pretty much anything the illusions don't do that much extra damage per level until much later on in the game | ||
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Esoterikk
Canada1256 Posts
On March 16 2012 13:35 Ack1027 wrote: It's was reinforced in his brain for pretty much an entire year of comp dota at euro's highest level. Not to mention he was taken under wing of great leaders like Puppey. His dota1 peak came when his teammates played a 4-1 style, gave him all farm and all carrying possibility. One of the best examples of a team with an archetypal carry and he really shined in this role at a very young age. So ya he probably isn't deserving, but you can see where his mindset is coming from. Also rabid/yango solve a dispute pls: Solo SD skill build different than laning sd build? And at level 5 maxed disrupt or 1-1-3? Obviously variables taken into account. Do you have a lane where you can go aggressive etc When you are level 5, isn't the theoretical most damage you can do based off a max disrupt build? With 2 in soul and one in poison? Ofc your image damage will be different based on hero and ranged/melee etc... thanks His post sounds really bitter, to me at least. I mean he seems to greatly over exaggerate the differences the engine makes and seems to ignore the fact that icefrog has been buffing push strats. How often do you play with pubs who ward? I wish the pubs I played with warded more... I play a lot of aggressive supports who should be warding and if pubbing has taught me anything it's that even if you ward 90% of the time your team will just ignore them and not watch the map anyway. I find late game warding and early rune warding are really the only times wards actually help brain dead pubs. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 16 2012 14:10 rabidch wrote: how anybody would allow himself to get 7 stacks of shadow poison is beyond me. thats like getting 7 stacks of napalm :/ It's not even efficient to go to 7 stacks, lol. You only get +50 damage after the 4th stack, so you'd get more damage releasing at 4 stacks, and then getting 3 stacks again (excepting the early ranks of Shadow Poison, where the +50 damage is more than the low stack damage). | ||
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, he was really really really really really good.
