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United States20289 Posts
On March 13 2012 12:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:23 rabidch wrote:On March 13 2012 12:17 TheYango wrote:
Related aside, what exactly is the point of buying Radiance on Bloodseeker? You're a ganker/semicarry, not an actual hard carry, so I don't see the point of buying an item like Radiance when it's primary benefit for you is farming power. Additionally, you have a HUGE %-damage buff, which will only multiply stat-based damage, and not straight +damage gains like that from Radiance.
It seems more sensible to buy strong midgame and lategame agility-based DPS items like Manta Style and Butterfly. works with his bloodbath So rather than buying items that scale ridiculously off his +80% damage buff, you'd rather buy an item that might heal you a tiny bit from random creep kills in a fight?
there are plenty of heroes that do that job better (lycan, ursa, naix), because BS is a pretty worthless hero otherwise, his stat gain and attack speed cause you to just get shot down immediately once you do that shit of shit, and once you get to a point where it pays off you have to deal with a crippling mediocre chase power
the thing is radiance extends the range you can deal damage at, which works with everything else he has pretty nicely if he has a good radiance timing. also when you blow your rage on yourself, you give the other guy the ability to cast spells, which in rupture, gives them more options than just, autoattack, tp, or run and tank the damage. all in all using bloodrage on yourself in the early-midgame is extremely situational
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United States47024 Posts
I just don't really see how having Radiance is going to perform better than having, say, Janggo + Yasha + Mithril Hammer (building toward BKB).
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On March 13 2012 12:03 Slardar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 11:23 NB wrote:
wait so when do you get orb of venom? like ever ever? Only hero I can see it having any USE in my mind, is early to mid-game on a BloodHunter. Later build into Skadi after Radiance.
you mean blood seeker? ~_~
on topic about bloodseeker... having trouble item him late game, no matter what i puton him he is still a shitty carry compare to others... Do i really need to finish the game around 30 mins mark?
The problem came down to no matter how much kill you have, if the towers still there and you dont have heroes that can take them out quickly, you are in trouble -_-
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United States20289 Posts
On March 13 2012 12:39 TheYango wrote:
I just don't really see how having Radiance is going to perform better than having, say, Janggo + Yasha + Mithril Hammer (building toward BKB).
it is just one of those things you have to try for yourself, and last i checked you can't rage yourself while magic immune
On March 13 2012 12:43 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:03 Slardar wrote:On March 13 2012 11:23 NB wrote:
wait so when do you get orb of venom? like ever ever? Only hero I can see it having any USE in my mind, is early to mid-game on a BloodHunter. Later build into Skadi after Radiance. you mean blood seeker? ~_~ on topic about bloodseeker... having trouble item him late game, no matter what i puton him he is still a shitty carry compare to others... Do i really need to finish the game around 30 mins mark? The problem came down to no matter how much kill you have, if the towers still there and you dont have heroes that can take them out quickly, you are in trouble -_-
welcome to the miserable world of bloodseeker, where how well you do in the first 12 minutes determines 90% of what you do the rest of the game... :/
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On the topic of bloodseeker... bloodseeker silencer lane is one of my favorites to play. I don't really see the point in picking him outside of that or some other gimmick.
I've only ever seen success from him in pubs when he went force staff. (Forces rupture damage and adds some mobility).
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On March 13 2012 12:39 TheYango wrote:
I just don't really see how having Radiance is going to perform better than having, say, Janggo + Yasha + Mithril Hammer (building toward BKB).
There aren't any good item choices because BS is basically the worst hero in the game. Those items would make you very squishy so you wouldn't even be able to team fight without exploding, and you still wouldn't deal very good damage. Only theoretical thing that might make him useful is a force staff+BKB use silence on late game Drow.
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On March 13 2012 12:47 Durak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:39 TheYango wrote:
I just don't really see how having Radiance is going to perform better than having, say, Janggo + Yasha + Mithril Hammer (building toward BKB). There aren't any good item choices because BS is basically the worst hero in the game. Those items would make you very squishy so you wouldn't even be able to team fight without exploding, and you still wouldn't deal very good damage. Only theoretical thing that might make him useful is a force staff+BKB use silence on late game Drow.
.... what?
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Bloodseeker is really good in pubs because nobody ganks him when hes weak, and its almost impossible to outlane him once he has a PMS and a QB cause he does like 100 dmg a hit to creeps. Radiance makes him really hard to kill because he'll be healing a lot from the creeps, and he can just lasthit them in the middle of a fight for a few hundred HP. It helps him farm and contributes to fights and ganks more than a battlefury does Hes either an oversized creeps or an unstoppable force depending on how he does early game. There are much better hard carries than him and better gankers than him, which is why you never see him in competitive games, let alone very often in pubs.
BKB on him doesn't make any sense because you lose so much damage when you have it on. Janggo can be used better on different heros because he doesn't need the MS once he has thirst active (same for yasha). Since hes primarily a chasing hero, its better if he attacks slower but in more damage per attack because he won't be using all of his attack speed when chasing people.
TP scroll hard counters him too.
On March 13 2012 12:56 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:47 Durak wrote:On March 13 2012 12:39 TheYango wrote:
I just don't really see how having Radiance is going to perform better than having, say, Janggo + Yasha + Mithril Hammer (building toward BKB). There aren't any good item choices because BS is basically the worst hero in the game. Those items would make you very squishy so you wouldn't even be able to team fight without exploding, and you still wouldn't deal very good damage. Only theoretical thing that might make him useful is a force staff+BKB use silence on late game Drow. .... what?
He means a drow on your team since she would have a good 400 damage
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played hotbid and torte de lini today :D
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On March 13 2012 12:56 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:47 Durak wrote:On March 13 2012 12:39 TheYango wrote:
I just don't really see how having Radiance is going to perform better than having, say, Janggo + Yasha + Mithril Hammer (building toward BKB). There aren't any good item choices because BS is basically the worst hero in the game. Those items would make you very squishy so you wouldn't even be able to team fight without exploding, and you still wouldn't deal very good damage. Only theoretical thing that might make him useful is a force staff+BKB use silence on late game Drow. .... what?
It's what all the good pubbers do. Use bloodseeker's awesome silence on the enemy physical carry so he can't cast spells. Take THAT skeleton king!
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Yes in general BloodSeeker is an absolutely sub-par (One of, if not THE lowest tier agility heroes in the game), regardless of that he is an ABSOLUTE slice to play with, and if he gets just a smidgen out of control, he can Genocide repeatedly over and over with Bloodbath. There was a period in time where he was one of the auto-banned heroes in Dota1 (didn't live too long, but it existed!)
For lane control, he's one of the hardest heroes to zone out. So start with Hatchet, tango(x2), (stick(x2) Potion(x1) in the middle lane, and farm toward PMS --> Stick-->Treads -->Finish Wand ---> Orb of Venom! NOW --> Assess how well you're farming. At this point you should be past level 7ish, 8-9. If you're farming extremely well --> RADIANCE(This is 100% CORE, BS game revolves around attempting to get this item as soon as possible, but if it's too late then it becomes useless same with BS's capability) If not able to get RAD --> Force Staff !!! (Highly underestimated item on BS, yet one of the best. Guess how well a low hp Hero that is Ruptured but is tping gets away when you push him 400 yards? LOL HE DOESN'T, BAM GET MURDERED!
Following Radiance or Force Staff, depending on how your game is going. BKB is generally the next core, since you can Bloodrage yourself and BKB simultaneously(Unless they changed this? Regardless, you need BKB),allowing you to hit like a monster undeterred. Final item I usually get is Eye of Skadi (from Orb of Venom) since BS isn't a conventional carry at all, he needs to be semi-tanky, which works best if you do get Radiance.
Happy Hunting,
Blood Seeker
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United States20289 Posts
On March 13 2012 13:35 Slardar wrote:
Yes in general BloodSeeker is an absolutely sub-par (One of, if not THE lowest tier agility heroes in the game), regardless of that he is an ABSOLUTE slice to play with, and if he gets just a smidgen out of control, he can Genocide repeatedly over and over with Bloodbath. There was a period in time where he was one of the auto-banned heroes in Dota1 (didn't live too long, but it existed!)
For lane control, he's one of the hardest heroes to zone out. So start with Hatchet, tango(x2), (stick(x2) Potion(x1) in the middle lane, and farm toward PMS --> Stick-->Treads -->Finish Wand ---> Orb of Venom! NOW --> Assess how well you're farming. At this point you should be past level 7ish, 8-9. If you're farming extremely well --> RADIANCE(This is 100% CORE, BS game revolves around attempting to get this item as soon as possible, but if it's too late then it becomes useless same with BS's capability) If not able to get RAD --> Force Staff !!! (Highly underestimated item on BS, yet one of the best. Guess how well a low hp Hero that is Ruptured but is tping gets away when you push him 400 yards? LOL HE DOESN'T, BAM GET MURDERED!
Following Radiance or Force Staff, depending on how your game is going. BKB is generally the next core, since you can Bloodrage yourself and BKB simultaneously(Unless they changed this? Regardless, you need BKB),allowing you to hit like a monster undeterred. Final item I usually get is Eye of Skadi (from Orb of Venom) since BS isn't a conventional carry at all, he needs to be semi-tanky, which works best if you do get Radiance.
Happy Hunting,
Blood Seeker
it's possible to have them on simultaneously in dota1 but you have to get the timing right (cast bloodrage then bkb immediately), otherwise bkb will dispel rage.
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Yeah indeed, it works in Dota1 if you use it in the order you wrote, which is what makes BKB so powerful on BS, but not him in particular, carries need BKB after their 1 damage core item in general.
I have yet to test it out in Dota2 (never played BS yet) so I left it open in brackets, since they have changed minor things here and there, which I'm assuming these changes were meant to be implemented IN Dota1, but the Warcraft 3 Engine held back IceFrog. So it remains to be seen, with how it works. I hope they leave it in the game since BS is already very weak, if they removed Bloodrage+BKB he would be even more useless unfortunately.
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Radiance bloodseeker is a lot more effective than you might think. In a big fight, you're not going to waste all your time denying creeps, which unfortunately keeps healing him like an undying. Healing 700 hp almost instantly for a normal wave is pretty annoying. If you're with a big wave, he can easily heal his entire hp base once over.
The problem is if you waste that much time farming in an even matchup, you're wasting your hero, and if you're killing enough to get the radiance fast, you run into legion commander logic.
Charitably I can see bloodseeker as a kind of poor man's nightstalker. You can chase, dive, and silence. You're not so great at team fights, but you can act as a mini doom. The problem comes when people try to realize their noobie troll fantasies through him.
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Bloodrage does indeed work if you cast it before you BKB. My friend tried it and said he couldn't get BKB to dispel it, no matter when he used his BKB - is this an inconsistency from dota1?
Also, why do people go force staff on BS? It's a 120/240/360 nuke, if you want a nuke why dont you shell out a little more cash and get a dagon which does far more at level 1 ultimate, a little more at level 2 ulti, and by level 3 ulti nukes are irrelevant anyway? I mean sure it gives a little utility, but in what situation will force staff mean you can kill someone where you couldn't chase with your ulti+thirst anyway?
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On March 13 2012 14:59 igotmyown wrote:
Radiance bloodseeker is a lot more effective than you might think. In a big fight, you're not going to waste all your time denying creeps, which unfortunately keeps healing him like an undying. Healing 700 hp almost instantly for a normal wave is pretty annoying. If you're with a big wave, he can easily heal his entire hp base once over.
The problem is if you waste that much time farming in an even matchup, you're wasting your hero, and if you're killing enough to get the radiance fast, you run into legion commander logic.
Charitably I can see bloodseeker as a kind of poor man's nightstalker. You can chase, dive, and silence. You're not so great at team fights, but you can act as a mini doom. The problem comes when people try to realize their noobie troll fantasies through him.
what is that? explain?
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Well legion commander can infinitely stack damage via kills, so I guess it means that you are dominating a game, then it doesn't really matter what you do (in this case, it doesn't really doesn't make sense to go raidence on BS, cause either you aren't dominating and it will be late, or you are, and you don't need it).
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United States20289 Posts
On March 13 2012 15:29 LAN-f34r wrote:
Bloodrage does indeed work if you cast it before you BKB. My friend tried it and said he couldn't get BKB to dispel it, no matter when he used his BKB - is this an inconsistency from dota1?
Also, why do people go force staff on BS? It's a 120/240/360 nuke, if you want a nuke why dont you shell out a little more cash and get a dagon which does far more at level 1 ultimate, a little more at level 2 ulti, and by level 3 ulti nukes are irrelevant anyway? I mean sure it gives a little utility, but in what situation will force staff mean you can kill someone where you couldn't chase with your ulti+thirst anyway?
yes it is an inconsistency, if you dont get the timing right (right before you bkb) the rage will by dispelled by bkb
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On March 13 2012 12:43 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:03 Slardar wrote:On March 13 2012 11:23 NB wrote:
wait so when do you get orb of venom? like ever ever? Only hero I can see it having any USE in my mind, is early to mid-game on a BloodHunter. Later build into Skadi after Radiance. you mean blood seeker? ~_~ on topic about bloodseeker... having trouble item him late game, no matter what i puton him he is still a shitty carry compare to others... Do i really need to finish the game around 30 mins mark? The problem came down to no matter how much kill you have, if the towers still there and you dont have heroes that can take them out quickly, you are in trouble -_-
I think of him more as a dedicated ganker than a carry. He's basically like a mediocre version of NS, relying on ult cd rather than day/night cycle and he doesn't have as easy a time solo-killing people. He's got similar utility in that he specializes in ganking carries with strong escape mechs like AM, weaver, etc.
Radiance only works if you've roflstomped the game imo. It comes really late when you examine the time period in which BS is most effective; lvl6 up until teams start grouping up for pushes/fights. I really prefer cheaper stuff like janggo/blademail/basher/armlet  , and even if I do get fed I prefer mjollnir or a straight butterfly over radiance. That's game-ending amounts of DPS with rage on.
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To the questions about Force staff on BS. You go it b/c it's funny as fuck to see someone try and obey the "hold still when he ults you" then you force staff them for lawls. In pubs it causes a lot of panic.
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EPT
