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I may get smacked around for asking this, but it's a question that's been nagging me ever since I started puttering around in LoL. So here goes!
The opening threads in this section make it clear that there's a huge difference between League of Legends and Defense of the Ancients 2. I must admit, I never played the original DotA, and LoL is my first real exposure to the ARTS style of game. That said, I like it, and I'm curious about DotA2 and Blizzard DotA.
I've been trying to play more standard LoL than Dominion so I can learn more about lane control, "real" item choices and decision-making when enemies come into range. My questions are the following:
1. What bad habits do LoL players participate in that I should actively be trying to break? (Simply "playing LoL" doesn't count  )
2. I've heard consumables are a bigger part of DotA and its sequel/spinoffs than LoL. Should I continue to use them in LoL even if I'm the only player on my team doing so?
3. Is it worth my time to dig up my old copy of Warcraft III and download whatever I need for the current version of DotA instead of playing LoL?
Thanks in advance, folks. Here's hoping I don't get smacked with the banhammer!
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I can't really say fo the first two, but for 3 the answer is very definitely yes.
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1) This kind of ties into the second part. One of the large things that LoL has and DotA doesn't have is a higher level of 'spamming' in spells. This is in part due to the low cooldown / high mana pool of each hero. In DotA, conservation is key, as, depending on which hero you play, you have a limited mana pool. For example, a hero like sven, where his stun is 140 mana, a decent point to start from, he only has a base of around 220, so your looking to stun once or twice every few minutes. It's important to know when to stun, and how your doing it. Positioning is also key, as DotA does not come equipped with skills like flash. Simply being an inch where your not supposed to be leads to a kill. And in DotA, it snowballs like nuts.
Consumables are a large part of DotA, mainly because we don't have the free TP back to base. It costs money to go to and from the base, i.e TP Scroll / money you'd gain from creeping. So it's essential you stay in the lane as long as possible. There is also a courier system. In LoL if you need an item, you simply use your free TP to heal / buy. in DotA, the courier provides both, you purchase regen / your items and ferry it to you. The key concept of consumables is that it allows you to stay in the lane the longest, the heroes with the higher level will always have a lane advantage, so its advantageous to stay as long as physically possible before going back.
DotA 2 isn't too different in terms of gameplay, so it would be advantageous to play around with it. What will hurt new players the most is the shop system, and knowing what skills do what. In DotA 2, the shop system is confusing as all hell, but if you familiarize yourself with the item names, you can simply type it in and it'll come up, saving you a boatload of time you'd spend otherwise tinkering around. On top of that, knowing the hero skills, mana costs, etc, will give you an advantage.
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3. You can also go the route of DL'in HoN since its now has a free to play model like LoL... It is a lot more similar to dota than LoL and you dont have to find your old cd keys ;D
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1. lack of wards, not enough ganking, jungling isnt as big anymore due to many ways to deny creeps. There are no denying mechanics in lol u gota work on that. there is no free tp/rune pages
2. Lane stay in dota is alot harder simply because of the amount of harass you can do with autoattacking/trilanes/nukes. consumables in lol arent that good since it heals too slow late game compared to salves. early game i think LoL is in the middle since their basic potion heals alot more than tango
3. To practice denying and stuff sure. familiarize urself with the heroes/items (direct port but various small changes such as animations, ministuns removed here and there). there's gona be a super steep learning curve and ur gona get flamed at so much but keep at it
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I have to say, I disagree with some of the post above:
1. There are no "bad habits" that make LoL players worse DotA players(and the other way around). The games are different and thus you need to play differently to be successful.
However, BlitzDOTA is right that mana management is more important in DotA, also the farming in DotA is mainly done by lasthitting with auto- attacks whereas in LoL you spam your spells.
Still, I wouldn't call these differences in gameplay "bad habits".
Comparing DotA/ HoN/ LoL, flaming and leaving would be things I consider as "bad habits" ;-)
2. I think I don't know exactly what you mean but why should you stop using consumables if they are used in both games?
3. If you really want to start playing DotA 2 when it's released you will heavily benefit from playing DotA 1 as you need to know 108(?) heroes and their spells. You will learn how every hero attacks, moves and just "feels" differently. In LoL the heroes have pretty much the same attack speed/ animation imo(biggest difference is probably the one between ADs and APs but still not too hard to learn).
Also, the whole gameplay is different: ganks in LoL are pretty rare compared to DotA, the execution of ganks needs to be much faster/ precise in DotA than in LoL.
Teamfights and the positioning before a teamfight in LoL is easier. In LoL teams mostly face each other in a "open" 5v5 situation whereas in DotA you initiate completely different.
Conclusion:
If you really want to get into DotA 2, start playing DotA 1. There are no skills that you can learn in LoL that can directly be transfered to DotA (2).
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Come back to the dark side.
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I really recommend you to try DotA AI on WC3. Remember to read guides, etc. The bots are pretty good.
I started by doing that and was fun from the beginning.
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The main difference / habits that I think a LoL player should be aware of are :
1. Good player can abuse the hell out of a bad player much more than LoL due to many different things. Gold Loss, Deny, etc. Don't be discouraged and ask for help. Observe what the other guy are doing to you, even the smallest little things. That's the best way to learn.
2. Mana management is important. You have to really make your spells counts. In LoL you can spam away skills to farm creeps. Not so much in Dota early game. If you don't manage your mana properly, you will find yourself being unable to do anything in lane and that will affect your farm/level etc.
3. Being forced to last hit under the tower is not a bad thing in Dota. Vice versa, early game you should not push the waves so hard that it goes to their tower ( generally a good thing in LoL because that's the only way to "deny" creeps so to speak). Utilize deny and last hit properly to control the lane equilibrium.
3. Tp scrolls. Always carry tp scroll. The most important item in dota. This allows you to join teamfights / ganks when you need it while staying efficient in leveling and farming. Absolutely essential. Other consumables are crucial early game to stay in lane but not so good mid to late game. There is no need to buy healing consumables past early game.
4. Wards are precious. Use them wisely if you are a support. And it costs a lot as well especially for a support. You don't have the freedom (stock and cash wise) to spam it all over the map anytime you want it. Watch minimap and you gotta have a certain kind of map sense if the map is dark.
5. Dota 1 is always worth your time. Millions still play it especially in Asia. In US, you won't lack players to play with as well. Not sure where is beginner friendly though. HoN is decent and a good alternative but quite a few heroes are different. Playing LoL is not really going to help you specifically in Dota. Some things are of course similar across the genre. Map awareness, teamwork, etc.
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Deffinatly dig out your war 3 and play it. Its a lot different to lol and you need to get the hang of not having free TPs and being able to deny.
Also all the heroes are pretty much direct ports so going from Dota 1 to dota 2 is just a graphical update for the most part with some tweaks here and there.
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I may get smacked around for asking this, but it's a question that's been nagging me ever since I started puttering around in LoL. So here goes!
It makes me sad that you felt scared to post a completely reasonable question on teamliquid. The internet is harsh :3 If you have any questions regarding the game, let me know, and I can put you in touch with some pro LoL players that currently have the beta for DotA 2 that would give you a better perspective.
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I think 2 of the things that make lol players worse at dota 2 than say hon players is the speed. Dota2/hon is much more fast paced that lol is, and last hitting. It's nowhere near as easy in dota2/hon as it is in LoL. Alot of people compare last hitting in dota 2 with every hero, to last hitting with karthus's auto attack in LoL. But in general i'd say play some dota if you want to, Hon is a decent alternative too. IF you decide to try out dota on wc3, remember to get something to sort out hotkeys, like warkeys or whatever (been a while)
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On October 31 2011 21:10 BlitzDOTA wrote:
Simply being an inch where your not supposed to be leads to a kill.
Just like in LoL.
Flash in LoL is not something you surprise your opponent with. Your enemy knows that you have Flash in the same way that you yourself do.
If Anti-Mage farms one more creep wave that other champions couldnt have farmed, that doesn't mean he is out of position. Your enemies know you can blink away, and you know it, otherwise you wouldn't have been there in the first place.
Someone who has Flash ready and gets ganked but "luckily" escapes with Flash wasn't lucky: he had Flash and wasn't out of position in the first place. (The price for that being that he doesn't have Flash ready now for the next few minutes, meaning he will have to play way more defensively.)
On October 31 2011 21:10 BlitzDOTA wrote:
Consumables are a large part of DotA, mainly because we don't have the free TP back to base. It costs money to go to and from the base, i.e TP Scroll / money you'd gain from creeping.
Just like in LoL.
Opportunity cost. TPing back to base takes 8 seconds and you can't just TP back to the lane like you can in DotA. Also, as you said, there is a courier in DotA, which allows you to shop from lane. CASUAL MUCH?
Obviously DotA is harder, but mainly to due to denying (and harder last hitting in general), more complex heros and items, more powerful and expensive spells (and a worse UI).
But bringing up Summoner Spells and Recalling to say LoL is easier is just wrong.
A bit more on topic:
I recommend playing DotA or HoN.
LoL is too different and especially last-hitting and denying really is a HUGE difference, for me at least.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On October 31 2011 20:21 BlueInkAlchemist wrote:I may get smacked around for asking this, but it's a question that's been nagging me ever since I started puttering around in LoL. So here goes! The opening threads in this section make it clear that there's a huge difference between League of Legends and Defense of the Ancients 2. I must admit, I never played the original DotA, and LoL is my first real exposure to the ARTS style of game. That said, I like it, and I'm curious about DotA2 and Blizzard DotA. I've been trying to play more standard LoL than Dominion so I can learn more about lane control, "real" item choices and decision-making when enemies come into range. My questions are the following: 1. What bad habits do LoL players participate in that I should actively be trying to break? (Simply "playing LoL" doesn't count ) 2. I've heard consumables are a bigger part of DotA and its sequel/spinoffs than LoL. Should I continue to use them in LoL even if I'm the only player on my team doing so? 3. Is it worth my time to dig up my old copy of Warcraft III and download whatever I need for the current version of DotA instead of playing LoL? Thanks in advance, folks. Here's hoping I don't get smacked with the banhammer!
Play Dota, LoL is way different then Dota,
I wrote this a while ago for a guy asking the diffs between dota/hon and lol
On September 28 2011 04:28 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 04:03 Cornstarched wrote:
Hello im new to this kind of game Dota/Dota 2/ Heros of Newearth/ and leauge of legends
I have all 3 games and played them al for a couple of hours, and i havent been able to tell the difference between them.
YES they look difference have different toons abilities maps, but its basicly the same game
U have champion, you kill CREEPS/Towers/Other Champions to get gold and buy gear. The lvl caps are different each game but the goal and playstyles are so the exsact same(To my very limited experienced view)
My question, why the hell are there 3 of these games and which one is the better one,
I don't care about graphics quality or money or anything, get down to the basics of the game. Im genuinly curious(spelling=bad) how and why 3 of the same game are being held in compitions like MLG and Dreamhack Its not the same game, HoN resembles Dota/Dota 2 but the games itself is different, some heroes are different and some heroes are added/removed and changed subsequently changing the meta game. So far, Dota 2 is bascially an improved version of Dota which works the same. The differences between Dota and League of Legends however are huge. League of Legends is a totally different game based around the same concept, no Hero/Champion is the same as in the other games(although they do resemble each other). The map is also different and the way heroes improve themselves are different, there are Ability Power(AP) and AD(Attack Damage) champions in LoL. One being casters usually and the other based around physical damage. In Dota however casters do not scale as well, their abilities are static and can only be improved by a single item. Casters serve more of a Crowd control role in Dota, to support the hard carry. This is also a difference between LoL and Dota, Dota revolves alot more around a single hardcarry, one hero which can destroy everything provided the right farm while he is being supported by others. There is also a difference in mana and ability concepts, in LoL you have alot of champions(pretty much every champion) which has abilities on very short cooldowns which are spammable and cost little mana, this is not the case of Dota most of the times. Dota knows the deny mechanic, whereas LoL does not, denying is the act of killing your own creeps while they are on low hp, therefore ''denying'' your opponent gold and a certain portion of the exp. Dota is alot more aggressive play then LoL(atleast at the start), Ganking is alot weaker in LoL this is part due to a couple mechanics. 1.Flash, virtually every Champion/Hero takes Flash, a short-distance teleport (if you know what blink is you know what I mean) on a long cooldown, allowing people to escape. 2.Ganking is less rewarding, not only do you gain an incredible amount of exp in dota when you kill someone(relevant to LoL) you also deny your opponent a certain amount of gold(when you die, you lose gold). 3.Tower diving also occurs more in Dota then it does in LoL(atleast in the early stages of the game) this is because well lets just say that Dota's towers hit like trucks........and LoL towers hit like freight treins. The LoL tower AI is also much more refined then the Dota one and it WILL attack you instantly whenever you attack a hero while being in range of an enemy tower, the Dota one does not always do this. 4. The power of wards and Clairvoyance in LoL, wards are cheap(relativly speaking), invisible and provide vision of certain gank paths in League of Legends, and they last a fairly long time, coupled with the fact that Clairvoyance is a free ''flare''(think, instant vision of a radius everywhere on the map) on a fairly short cooldown(45s?) people can spot ganks more easily. Moreover Dota has something called Smoke of deceit, this bypasses the enemies wards (you are invisible during it and gain increased movement speed) which allows for faster ganking. The game is also more aggressive due to the metagames currently going on(I might be wrong here right now) Tri-laning(having 3 heroes on a single lane) is much more prevalent in Dota, leading too more aggressive play from the 3 heroes and more ganks on the other 2 heroes who are both single laning. The LoL metagame includes having an AD carry and a support hero babysitting him(usually providing heals or shields) this makes the lane phase less aggressive bottom lane in the sense that both teams are durable. LoL however does have usually a jungler/roamer who can gank the other lanes but this is diminished due to the effectivness of ClairVoyance and wards. There is also the power of runes for ganking, runes are like power-ups in Dota, they give a hero extra damage, speed, regeneration or invisibility, which empowers the hero shortly and allowing it to gank easier. There are many differences between Dota/Hon and LoL and these are just the tip of the iceberg really. As for which game is better, that is subjective. Many people consider LoL a more casual game due to having no denying mechanic and alot of other stuff but that doesn't make it a worse game. Ow yeah, all communities are shit and they will flame you if you do even the slightest thing wrong  . Good luck and have fun.
So basically
Play dota, get used to it, LoL is nothing like it.
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uhhhmmmm not to be a hater but consumables are used heavily at high levels in LoL it all depends upon your character
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This is a pretty easy question to answer for yourself. Just figure out what you want to do in dota 2, or what you're trying to do. Are you trying to train yourself before you play it so you aren't completely lost? Or do you want to be really good at dota 2?
Aside from all the little specific details, the thing that matters the most is that if you want to be prepared for dota 2, the very best way bar none for ANY player from ANY game is to play dota 1. Dota 2 is widely known to be as close a port as possible to the original game. The entire mindset, how you perceive the game is the most important thing you can learn at this point, and it is only by experiencing dota 1 that you can hope to apply what you've learned to dota 2. Why do you think dota 1 players are transitioning so smoothly? This isn't like sc2 where bw and war 3 players can conglomerate and succeed at varying levels. Dota 1 pros are by far more populous in number, and many pros from hon are former dota pros themselves or played a shit ton before they moved.
There's lots of free ways to play war3. This hon is free to play argument is true and fine, but hon is not the same [ in the important ways that matter ] to dota1. Please don't let anyone tell you this lie.
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On November 01 2011 00:28 Sgonzo wrote:
uhhhmmmm not to be a hater but consumables are used heavily at high levels in LoL it all depends upon your character
Of course but in Dota/Dota2/HoN, there is more consumable. And some consumable dissipate when attacked upon. Also you dont get the instant teleport back to base so you must conserve what you have and be more worried about harass. Also warding and counter warding is alot more key since not seeing a gank is instant death since the game is much more fast pace compare to LoL.
Also there are SHIT SHIT ton of CC (crowd control) in dota/dota2/HoN and like mentioned above, you must learn how to use these and when not to use these. Such as coordinating it correctly to stun lock. LoL you rarely see any character that can stun and when they can they usually only stun from 1 sec - 2 sec at the most but in dota 2, almost every single character has 1 and if not 2 CC such as a stun or snare or something around that.
I think a good good habit to break when playing dota from your transition is DONT rely to much on tower. In dota, it much much more easy to tower dive. So if you think you + 1 tower vs 2 guys would be safe, you are WRONG! Shit can turn around fast if you dont pay close attention. This is allowed because Dota has TP scroll and you must rely on your team mate to TP in to assist you. Basically after lvl 6, you need to stop relying on tower as much since I know LoL people love tower hugging.
Also another big key is Denys. Which is a big big key but you may not think it alot but now you need to balance out when to harass, farm, and deny. This is much much harder to do because you will also need to look at mini map for possible ganks.
I would recommend HoN since it currently free and is basically the same thing as dota 1 but with more tweak. Even most of the item will be the same. I think people recommending Dota 1 is a bad example simply because you need to buy the game, and not as much people play on it anymore and the match making is terrible if you call it match making but if you want the best example of dota 2 than play dota 1.
On November 01 2011 01:18 Ack1027 wrote:
This is a pretty easy question to answer for yourself. Just figure out what you want to do in dota 2, or what you're trying to do. Are you trying to train yourself before you play it so you aren't completely lost? Or do you want to be really good at dota 2?
Aside from all the little specific details, the thing that matters the most is that if you want to be prepared for dota 2, the very best way bar none for ANY player from ANY game is to play dota 1. Dota 2 is widely known to be as close a port as possible to the original game. The entire mindset, how you perceive the game is the most important thing you can learn at this point, and it is only by experiencing dota 1 that you can hope to apply what you've learned to dota 2. Why do you think dota 1 players are transitioning so smoothly? This isn't like sc2 where bw and war 3 players can conglomerate and succeed at varying levels. Dota 1 pros are by far more populous in number, and many pros from hon are former dota pros themselves or played a shit ton before they moved.
There's lots of free ways to play war3. This hon is free to play argument is true and fine, but hon is not the same [ in the important ways that matter ] to dota1. Please don't let anyone tell you this lie.
Not trying to start a large debate but what important factor are different about HoN and Dota 1? I havent played HoN for too long myself but it feel about the same does it not?
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There is a point very important in dota and hon, you have stats like strength, agility and intelligence, these stats are very important and their management, via items or stat points when you lvl up, make a lot of difference. for instance, like blitzdota said, when playing sven/rogue knight, you have a little mana pool that only allows you to make a spell every couple of minutes in the best case scenario, but if you put stat points when leveling up, it will increase your mana pool slightly and it'll be able to do the stun more often.
you have to see a lot of games and play a lot of games as well. one advice, go check joindota.com, tobi and synd do a great cast because they always comment and introduce the heroes and the game in everycast, so that newbies can get into dota more easilly.
go check some of their vods
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Hey,
most things are alrdy said.
Imo just get HoN and learn the game.
I play dota since 4 years or so and it is rly annoying to play publics on (Dota-league, Dotalicious etc.)
And u dont have to buy HoN and dont need extra hotkey tools for HoN and it is nearly like Dota1
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EPT
