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On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once.
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On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once.
everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something.
The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games.
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I think that suggesting that Blizzard would have done better to not try to change fundamental gameplay is inaccurate because then people would be riding them for just re-skinning an old game formula that has worked and would put off am image that they are just trying to get more money with minimal effort to expose their fans to new things.
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On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games.
I am 33 year old and play video games in my free time. I am not playing an RPG if I can’t respect my character, end of story. Torch light 2 sat in my Steam account collecting dust bust until there was a mod that let me respect that worked well If Blizzard wants to lose money from me and most of my friends (also who hate being punished for trying new things) then they should totally make a game without respecs. But they don’t, because we are the market they want, 24-35 year old, college educated professionals who have income to buy 3-7 games a year if not more. My girlfriend isn’t playing one either, since she hates picking things she can’t change later. If they went this route, that is two Diablo 3 sales they would not get. The same with SC2 and all the old stuff people wanted in there.
The shit the hardcore people loved will not make me buy games. It will make a bunch of my friends no buy games.
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On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games.
It's funny, because that's exactly why some devs get shit on by the community, by rehashing the same game with basically better graphics.
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On August 17 2013 05:51 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games. I am 33 year old and play video games in my free time. I am not playing an RPG if I can’t respect my character, end of story. Torch light 2 sat in my Steam account collecting dust bust until there was a mod that let me respect that worked well If Blizzard wants to lose money from me and most of my friends (also who hate being punished for trying new things) then they should totally make a game without respecs. But they don’t, because we are the market they want, 24-35 year old, college educated professionals who have income to buy 3-7 games a year if not more. My girlfriend isn’t playing one either, since she hates picking things she can’t change later. If they went this route, that is two Diablo 3 sales they would not get. The same with SC2 and all the old stuff people wanted in there. The shit the hardcore people loved will not make me buy games. It will make a bunch of my friends no buy games.
You wouldn't buy Diablo 3 if it didn't have respec but bought Torchlight 2 by your own admission? Whether it sat in your steam account collecting dust is irrelevant, the devs got the sale. I'd wager you would have bought D3 even without respec, played through the game once or twice and quit just as you likely did now. If placating casuals into buying the initial game is Blizzards only goal at this point, they've already failed their namesake and can be washed away with any 'insert name' game developer. It's also odd you attach yourself to the respec point (which I already said could be manipulated even d2 has respec options) and ignore anything else entirely.
p.s. I think the entire TL community knows you're 33 with a gf by now so you can stop prefacing your posts with this information. 
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On August 17 2013 06:01 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 05:51 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games. I am 33 year old and play video games in my free time. I am not playing an RPG if I can’t respect my character, end of story. Torch light 2 sat in my Steam account collecting dust bust until there was a mod that let me respect that worked well If Blizzard wants to lose money from me and most of my friends (also who hate being punished for trying new things) then they should totally make a game without respecs. But they don’t, because we are the market they want, 24-35 year old, college educated professionals who have income to buy 3-7 games a year if not more. My girlfriend isn’t playing one either, since she hates picking things she can’t change later. If they went this route, that is two Diablo 3 sales they would not get. The same with SC2 and all the old stuff people wanted in there. The shit the hardcore people loved will not make me buy games. It will make a bunch of my friends no buy games. You wouldn't buy Diablo 3 if it didn't have respec but bought Torchlight 2 by your own admission? Whether it sat in your steam account collecting dust is irrelevant, the devs got the sale. I'd wager you would have bought D3 even without respec, played through the game once or twice and quit just as you likely did now. If placating casuals into buying the initial game is Blizzards only goal at this point, they've already failed their namesake and can be washed away with any 'insert name' game developer. It's also odd you attach yourself to the respec point (which I already said could be manipulated even d2 has respec options) and ignore anything else entirely. p.s. I think the entire TL community knows you're 33 with a gf by now so you can stop prefacing your posts with this information.
I got Torchlight 2 while donating to chairity, and it sat undused while I played the Witcher 2(which doesn’t have level locked abilities, to respecs are not a huge deal) and like 15 other games. I played D3 for 60-80 hours and more so with my girlfriend. And I am not a casual gamer, I play Dota 2 and SC2. I played FTL a number of times and crushed my way through Super Meat Boy. I like hard games.
I just hate wasting my team because the game is designed to punish me for trying new things
Note:The age might be over kill, but people sometimes assume we are all college kids. It also points out I don't have unlimited free time to put up with dumb game bullshit.
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On August 17 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 06:01 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:51 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games. I am 33 year old and play video games in my free time. I am not playing an RPG if I can’t respect my character, end of story. Torch light 2 sat in my Steam account collecting dust bust until there was a mod that let me respect that worked well If Blizzard wants to lose money from me and most of my friends (also who hate being punished for trying new things) then they should totally make a game without respecs. But they don’t, because we are the market they want, 24-35 year old, college educated professionals who have income to buy 3-7 games a year if not more. My girlfriend isn’t playing one either, since she hates picking things she can’t change later. If they went this route, that is two Diablo 3 sales they would not get. The same with SC2 and all the old stuff people wanted in there. The shit the hardcore people loved will not make me buy games. It will make a bunch of my friends no buy games. You wouldn't buy Diablo 3 if it didn't have respec but bought Torchlight 2 by your own admission? Whether it sat in your steam account collecting dust is irrelevant, the devs got the sale. I'd wager you would have bought D3 even without respec, played through the game once or twice and quit just as you likely did now. If placating casuals into buying the initial game is Blizzards only goal at this point, they've already failed their namesake and can be washed away with any 'insert name' game developer. It's also odd you attach yourself to the respec point (which I already said could be manipulated even d2 has respec options) and ignore anything else entirely. p.s. I think the entire TL community knows you're 33 with a gf by now so you can stop prefacing your posts with this information. I got Torchlight 2 while donating to chairity, and it sat undused while I played the Witcher 2(which doesn’t have level locked abilities, to respecs are not a huge deal) and like 15 other games. I played D3 for 60-80 hours and more so with my girlfriend. And I am not a casual gamer, I play Dota 2 and SC2. I played FTL a number of times and crushed my way through Super Meat Boy. I like hard games. I just hate wasting my team because the game is designed to punish me for trying new things Note:The age might be over kill, but people sometimes assume we are all college kids. It also points out I don't have unlimited free time to put up with dumb game bullshit.
I want to elaborate on this "punish" aspect. There's no real gauge of power for the abilities you have access to when you get your first ap/sp/etc. There are also no indicators on the need to be well rounded or a focused role. Instead, you're thrown into the dark with a game that will take hours, if not days, to determine if you screwed up at levels 5-10. It has little to do with experimentation for me, and instead a dread of having to repeat 10-30 hours of gameplay essentially because of dumb luck. With the way skill trees work, this is inevitable without respecs.
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On August 17 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 06:01 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:51 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games. I I am 33 year old and play video games in my free time. I am not playing an RPG if I can’t respect my character, end of story. Torch light 2 sat in my Steam account collecting dust bust until there was a mod that let me respect that worked well If Blizzard wants to lose money from me and most of my friends (also who hate being punished for trying new things) then they should totally make a game without respecs. But they don’t, because we are the market they want, 24-35 year old, college educated professionals who have income to buy 3-7 games a year if not more. My girlfriend isn’t playing one either, since she hates picking things she can’t change later. If they went this route, that is two Diablo 3 sales they would not get. The same with SC2 and all the old stuff people wanted in there. The shit the hardcore people loved will not make me buy games. It will make a bunch of my friends no buy games. You wouldn't buy Diablo 3 if it didn't have respec but bought Torchlight 2 by your own admission? Whether it sat in your steam account collecting dust is irrelevant, the devs got the sale. I'd wager you would have bought D3 even without respec, played through the game once or twice and quit just as you likely did now. If placating casuals into buying the initial game is Blizzards only goal at this point, they've already failed their namesake and can be washed away with any 'insert name' game developer. It's also odd you attach yourself to the respec point (which I already said could be manipulated even d2 has respec options) and ignore anything else entirely. p.s. I think the entire TL community knows you're 33 with a gf by now so you can stop prefacing your posts with this information. I got Torchlight 2 while donating to chairity, and it sat undused while I played the Witcher 2(which doesn’t have level locked abilities, to respecs are not a huge deal) and like 15 other games. I played D3 for 60-80 hours and more so with my girlfriend. And I am not a casual gamer, I play Dota 2 and SC2. I played FTL a number of times and crushed my way through Super Meat Boy. I like hard games. I just hate wasting my team because the game is designed to punish me for trying new things Note:The age might be over kill, but people sometimes assume we are all college kids. It also points out I don't have unlimited free time to put up with dumb game bullshit.
Why do you act like its all black and white? Its not like there cant be a middle ground where we can have the best of the both worlds.
I always use Dark Souls as a modern game that absolutelly nailed described mechanics. D3 failed at that (and failed epicly at some other elements of the game; for example the story). On the other hand, SC2 in my opinion DID find the middle ground but its the rest of the game that fell short.
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On August 17 2013 06:30 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 06:01 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:51 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games. I I am 33 year old and play video games in my free time. I am not playing an RPG if I can’t respect my character, end of story. Torch light 2 sat in my Steam account collecting dust bust until there was a mod that let me respect that worked well If Blizzard wants to lose money from me and most of my friends (also who hate being punished for trying new things) then they should totally make a game without respecs. But they don’t, because we are the market they want, 24-35 year old, college educated professionals who have income to buy 3-7 games a year if not more. My girlfriend isn’t playing one either, since she hates picking things she can’t change later. If they went this route, that is two Diablo 3 sales they would not get. The same with SC2 and all the old stuff people wanted in there. The shit the hardcore people loved will not make me buy games. It will make a bunch of my friends no buy games. You wouldn't buy Diablo 3 if it didn't have respec but bought Torchlight 2 by your own admission? Whether it sat in your steam account collecting dust is irrelevant, the devs got the sale. I'd wager you would have bought D3 even without respec, played through the game once or twice and quit just as you likely did now. If placating casuals into buying the initial game is Blizzards only goal at this point, they've already failed their namesake and can be washed away with any 'insert name' game developer. It's also odd you attach yourself to the respec point (which I already said could be manipulated even d2 has respec options) and ignore anything else entirely. p.s. I think the entire TL community knows you're 33 with a gf by now so you can stop prefacing your posts with this information. I got Torchlight 2 while donating to chairity, and it sat undused while I played the Witcher 2(which doesn’t have level locked abilities, to respecs are not a huge deal) and like 15 other games. I played D3 for 60-80 hours and more so with my girlfriend. And I am not a casual gamer, I play Dota 2 and SC2. I played FTL a number of times and crushed my way through Super Meat Boy. I like hard games. I just hate wasting my team because the game is designed to punish me for trying new things Note:The age might be over kill, but people sometimes assume we are all college kids. It also points out I don't have unlimited free time to put up with dumb game bullshit. Why do you act like its all black and white? Its not like there cant be a middle ground where we can have the best of the both worlds. I always use Dark Souls as a modern game that absolutelly nailed described mechanics. D3 failed at that (and failed epicly at some other elements of the game; for example the story). On the other hand, SC2 in my opinion DID find the middle ground but its the rest of the game that fell short.
DarkSouls is an amazing game and I really enjoyed the time I spent with it. I don't think D3 is bad at all. I wanted a game I could play with all my friends and that is what I got.
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On August 17 2013 06:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 06:30 NukeD wrote:On August 17 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 06:01 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:51 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games. I I am 33 year old and play video games in my free time. I am not playing an RPG if I can’t respect my character, end of story. Torch light 2 sat in my Steam account collecting dust bust until there was a mod that let me respect that worked well If Blizzard wants to lose money from me and most of my friends (also who hate being punished for trying new things) then they should totally make a game without respecs. But they don’t, because we are the market they want, 24-35 year old, college educated professionals who have income to buy 3-7 games a year if not more. My girlfriend isn’t playing one either, since she hates picking things she can’t change later. If they went this route, that is two Diablo 3 sales they would not get. The same with SC2 and all the old stuff people wanted in there. The shit the hardcore people loved will not make me buy games. It will make a bunch of my friends no buy games. You wouldn't buy Diablo 3 if it didn't have respec but bought Torchlight 2 by your own admission? Whether it sat in your steam account collecting dust is irrelevant, the devs got the sale. I'd wager you would have bought D3 even without respec, played through the game once or twice and quit just as you likely did now. If placating casuals into buying the initial game is Blizzards only goal at this point, they've already failed their namesake and can be washed away with any 'insert name' game developer. It's also odd you attach yourself to the respec point (which I already said could be manipulated even d2 has respec options) and ignore anything else entirely. p.s. I think the entire TL community knows you're 33 with a gf by now so you can stop prefacing your posts with this information. I got Torchlight 2 while donating to chairity, and it sat undused while I played the Witcher 2(which doesn’t have level locked abilities, to respecs are not a huge deal) and like 15 other games. I played D3 for 60-80 hours and more so with my girlfriend. And I am not a casual gamer, I play Dota 2 and SC2. I played FTL a number of times and crushed my way through Super Meat Boy. I like hard games. I just hate wasting my team because the game is designed to punish me for trying new things Note:The age might be over kill, but people sometimes assume we are all college kids. It also points out I don't have unlimited free time to put up with dumb game bullshit. Why do you act like its all black and white? Its not like there cant be a middle ground where we can have the best of the both worlds. I always use Dark Souls as a modern game that absolutelly nailed described mechanics. D3 failed at that (and failed epicly at some other elements of the game; for example the story). On the other hand, SC2 in my opinion DID find the middle ground but its the rest of the game that fell short. DarkSouls is an amazing game and I really enjoyed the time I spent with it. I don't think D3 is bad at all. I wanted a game I could play with all my friends and that is what I got.
While I appreciate that you got the game you wanted, you have to recognize and respect that a lot of people, being a majority or not, did not get what they were (rightfully) hoping for. Just look at PvP.
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fool me once shame on me, fool me twice... blizzard any foolin me again with this one
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On August 17 2013 06:30 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 06:01 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:51 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games. I I am 33 year old and play video games in my free time. I am not playing an RPG if I can’t respect my character, end of story. Torch light 2 sat in my Steam account collecting dust bust until there was a mod that let me respect that worked well If Blizzard wants to lose money from me and most of my friends (also who hate being punished for trying new things) then they should totally make a game without respecs. But they don’t, because we are the market they want, 24-35 year old, college educated professionals who have income to buy 3-7 games a year if not more. My girlfriend isn’t playing one either, since she hates picking things she can’t change later. If they went this route, that is two Diablo 3 sales they would not get. The same with SC2 and all the old stuff people wanted in there. The shit the hardcore people loved will not make me buy games. It will make a bunch of my friends no buy games. You wouldn't buy Diablo 3 if it didn't have respec but bought Torchlight 2 by your own admission? Whether it sat in your steam account collecting dust is irrelevant, the devs got the sale. I'd wager you would have bought D3 even without respec, played through the game once or twice and quit just as you likely did now. If placating casuals into buying the initial game is Blizzards only goal at this point, they've already failed their namesake and can be washed away with any 'insert name' game developer. It's also odd you attach yourself to the respec point (which I already said could be manipulated even d2 has respec options) and ignore anything else entirely. p.s. I think the entire TL community knows you're 33 with a gf by now so you can stop prefacing your posts with this information. I got Torchlight 2 while donating to chairity, and it sat undused while I played the Witcher 2(which doesn’t have level locked abilities, to respecs are not a huge deal) and like 15 other games. I played D3 for 60-80 hours and more so with my girlfriend. And I am not a casual gamer, I play Dota 2 and SC2. I played FTL a number of times and crushed my way through Super Meat Boy. I like hard games. I just hate wasting my team because the game is designed to punish me for trying new things Note:The age might be over kill, but people sometimes assume we are all college kids. It also points out I don't have unlimited free time to put up with dumb game bullshit. Why do you act like its all black and white? Its not like there cant be a middle ground where we can have the best of the both worlds. I always use Dark Souls as a modern game that absolutelly nailed described mechanics. D3 failed at that (and failed epicly at some other elements of the game; for example the story). On the other hand, SC2 in my opinion DID find the middle ground but its the rest of the game that fell short.
Why do people care about the story in Diablo 3? The story in its predecessors was nothing short of ridiculous as well, and only served as an excuse to kill tons of monsters.
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On August 17 2013 07:12 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 06:30 NukeD wrote:On August 17 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 06:01 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:51 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games. I I am 33 year old and play video games in my free time. I am not playing an RPG if I can’t respect my character, end of story. Torch light 2 sat in my Steam account collecting dust bust until there was a mod that let me respect that worked well If Blizzard wants to lose money from me and most of my friends (also who hate being punished for trying new things) then they should totally make a game without respecs. But they don’t, because we are the market they want, 24-35 year old, college educated professionals who have income to buy 3-7 games a year if not more. My girlfriend isn’t playing one either, since she hates picking things she can’t change later. If they went this route, that is two Diablo 3 sales they would not get. The same with SC2 and all the old stuff people wanted in there. The shit the hardcore people loved will not make me buy games. It will make a bunch of my friends no buy games. You wouldn't buy Diablo 3 if it didn't have respec but bought Torchlight 2 by your own admission? Whether it sat in your steam account collecting dust is irrelevant, the devs got the sale. I'd wager you would have bought D3 even without respec, played through the game once or twice and quit just as you likely did now. If placating casuals into buying the initial game is Blizzards only goal at this point, they've already failed their namesake and can be washed away with any 'insert name' game developer. It's also odd you attach yourself to the respec point (which I already said could be manipulated even d2 has respec options) and ignore anything else entirely. p.s. I think the entire TL community knows you're 33 with a gf by now so you can stop prefacing your posts with this information. I got Torchlight 2 while donating to chairity, and it sat undused while I played the Witcher 2(which doesn’t have level locked abilities, to respecs are not a huge deal) and like 15 other games. I played D3 for 60-80 hours and more so with my girlfriend. And I am not a casual gamer, I play Dota 2 and SC2. I played FTL a number of times and crushed my way through Super Meat Boy. I like hard games. I just hate wasting my team because the game is designed to punish me for trying new things Note:The age might be over kill, but people sometimes assume we are all college kids. It also points out I don't have unlimited free time to put up with dumb game bullshit. Why do you act like its all black and white? Its not like there cant be a middle ground where we can have the best of the both worlds. I always use Dark Souls as a modern game that absolutelly nailed described mechanics. D3 failed at that (and failed epicly at some other elements of the game; for example the story). On the other hand, SC2 in my opinion DID find the middle ground but its the rest of the game that fell short. Why do people care about the story in Diablo 3? The story in its predecessors was nothing short of ridiculous as well, and only served as an excuse to kill tons of monsters.
the d3 story was laughably bad, technically we were the actual bad guys -_-
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On August 02 2013 07:01 ReignSupreme. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 06:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 02 2013 06:41 Amestir wrote:
After a year we finaly add PvP! Surprise. PvP was already added. And it sucked. Didn't they only add dueling (1v1)?? Not a proper PvP arena with rankings/2v2etc format. Which is stupid because they had videos showcasing it prior to the game even being released, and then cut it from the game completely. And it was the only reason I even bought the game more or less 
no duels, random ffa in a specific zone.
bt evryone dies in 0.1 secs in there so its pointless.
/edit
problem isnt so much that its instagib, but that more was promised (i wouldve been happy with the old pk model but o well) and this joke took 1 year to be added.
/edit2 ups wrong page
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On August 17 2013 07:12 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 06:30 NukeD wrote:On August 17 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 06:01 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:51 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games. I I am 33 year old and play video games in my free time. I am not playing an RPG if I can’t respect my character, end of story. Torch light 2 sat in my Steam account collecting dust bust until there was a mod that let me respect that worked well If Blizzard wants to lose money from me and most of my friends (also who hate being punished for trying new things) then they should totally make a game without respecs. But they don’t, because we are the market they want, 24-35 year old, college educated professionals who have income to buy 3-7 games a year if not more. My girlfriend isn’t playing one either, since she hates picking things she can’t change later. If they went this route, that is two Diablo 3 sales they would not get. The same with SC2 and all the old stuff people wanted in there. The shit the hardcore people loved will not make me buy games. It will make a bunch of my friends no buy games. You wouldn't buy Diablo 3 if it didn't have respec but bought Torchlight 2 by your own admission? Whether it sat in your steam account collecting dust is irrelevant, the devs got the sale. I'd wager you would have bought D3 even without respec, played through the game once or twice and quit just as you likely did now. If placating casuals into buying the initial game is Blizzards only goal at this point, they've already failed their namesake and can be washed away with any 'insert name' game developer. It's also odd you attach yourself to the respec point (which I already said could be manipulated even d2 has respec options) and ignore anything else entirely. p.s. I think the entire TL community knows you're 33 with a gf by now so you can stop prefacing your posts with this information. I got Torchlight 2 while donating to chairity, and it sat undused while I played the Witcher 2(which doesn’t have level locked abilities, to respecs are not a huge deal) and like 15 other games. I played D3 for 60-80 hours and more so with my girlfriend. And I am not a casual gamer, I play Dota 2 and SC2. I played FTL a number of times and crushed my way through Super Meat Boy. I like hard games. I just hate wasting my team because the game is designed to punish me for trying new things Note:The age might be over kill, but people sometimes assume we are all college kids. It also points out I don't have unlimited free time to put up with dumb game bullshit. Why do you act like its all black and white? Its not like there cant be a middle ground where we can have the best of the both worlds. I always use Dark Souls as a modern game that absolutelly nailed described mechanics. D3 failed at that (and failed epicly at some other elements of the game; for example the story). On the other hand, SC2 in my opinion DID find the middle ground but its the rest of the game that fell short. Why do people care about the story in Diablo 3? The story in its predecessors was nothing short of ridiculous as well, and only served as an excuse to kill tons of monsters.
D2 story consists of a few cutscenes (that still look good by modern standards) and a few optional dialogues with characters, and your main character saying a line or two when they enter a new area.
D3 has these saturday morning cartoon villains who constantly insult your intelligence and ruin any kind of immersion.
At least D2's story didn't get in the way of playing the game. In D3, Azmodan and Diablo's lines are just horrible, and you are forced to listen to them over and over again.
And let's not even talk about what they did to Cain, Tyrael and the entire Heaven/Angel race.
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I don't understand what's been up with Blizzard's writing team. The *craft games stories are practically the same thing with different skins and... wait, speaking of skins, is it just me or do the hybrids from the starcraft games have the wings of the angels in the diablo games?
Has Blizzard's creativity always been this bad and lazy?
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Actually after i read it was a d3 expansion i don't give a crap about this announcement, not gonna buy.
And please, i don't care what you liked, i only care about what i like, and D3 was FOR ME a piece of garbage who doesn't live up to the blizzard standards of a decade ago. Any discussion like "hey but imma casual so it's fine to me" is pointless since you won't be playing the game for a decade anyways to speak about blizzard's greatness making games like we used to.
If it didn't have blizzard on its box, i would've called it an "average game".
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On August 17 2013 05:51 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 05:39 crms wrote:On August 17 2013 05:30 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2013 05:25 crms wrote:
blizzard just needs to stop trying to 're-'invent' new games, they aren't good at it anymore.
Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 should have got the Dota 2 treatment. Major overhaul in graphical updates, some nice convenience changes and major updates in social/UI features (not the bnet 2.0 we got).
They can add a few things for flavor but they fundamentally changed both franchise games at a game design level for the worse in SC and Diablo.
I refuse to play D2 again or any game with skill trees and no ability to change my character. I do not like being punished for trying out new things and i don't like restarting. I also demand to select over 12 units, hot key buildings and set good waypoints for several buildings at once. everything you said could be included in 'nice convenience changes' I'm not that old school trueblood that thought MBS or auto mine RUINED STARCRAFT. Those things would be fine. Total respec on RPG characters is pretty ass though. You should have to have some level of commitment to certain builds etc, I mean even D2 has some respec options now which should suffice everyone. I'm sure they could come up with something. The problem is that blizzard thought they could make better games than the ones people still played 10+ years later, religiously. They couldn't. This world would be a marvelous place if SC and Diablo got the Dota 2 treatment. They could have had new acts, additional items etc for D3 to give the single player experience a new feel but they shouldn't have tinkered with the fundamental game design of either game. They goofed and these games will not carry the longevity or fandom of their predecessors. I'd argue they're only mentioned at all these days BECAUSE of the name they carry and not because of any inherent greatness in the individual games. I am 33 year old and play video games in my free time. I am not playing an RPG if I can’t respect my character, end of story. Torch light 2 sat in my Steam account collecting dust bust until there was a mod that let me respect that worked well If Blizzard wants to lose money from me and most of my friends (also who hate being punished for trying new things) then they should totally make a game without respecs. But they don’t, because we are the market they want, 24-35 year old, college educated professionals who have income to buy 3-7 games a year if not more. My girlfriend isn’t playing one either, since she hates picking things she can’t change later. If they went this route, that is two Diablo 3 sales they would not get. The same with SC2 and all the old stuff people wanted in there. The shit the hardcore people loved will not make me buy games. It will make a bunch of my friends no buy games.
D2 has had a respec option for a couple years now.
Why do people care about the story in Diablo 3? The story in its predecessors was nothing short of ridiculous as well, and only served as an excuse to kill tons of monsters.
The stories of D1/D2 and SC/BW weren't award-winning by any stretch of the imagination. However, they were cohesive, engaging, and not utterly ridiculous and full of plot holes at every turn. The stories of SC2/D3 are complete and utter shit, with zero credibility and cohesiveness to them. They are genuinely awful, and are some of the worst stories for video games that have ever been written.
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Netherlands19138 Posts
On August 17 2013 07:12 dutchfriese wrote:
fool me once shame on me, fool me twice... blizzard any foolin me again with this one
Sad and breaking my childhood heart but I have to admit that this is exactly how I feel about this.
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EPT
