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On June 16 2012 03:51 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 16:49 Phael wrote:On June 15 2012 16:12 diophan wrote:
Can some people give rough levels they beat normal on and each act for Nightmare and Hell? I'm wondering how much XP farming I should be doing and really want to feel prepared by having a baseline. Rolling a wizard BTW. My numbers so far as a first time hardcore player (I'd imagine subsequent run-throughs would feature lower levels and higher dps), level 52 wizard, closing in on Butcher now ... Normal diablo - 2k hp, 600 dps, level 32 Nightmare butcher - 5.6k hp, 1200 dps, level 38 Nightmare belial - 8k hp, 2200 dps, level 43 Nightmare azmodan - 13k hp, 4100 dps, level 48 Nightmare diablo - 15k hp, 4300 dps, level 49 (act 4 gives you no xp ...) Warning: Izual was a bitch with these stats. Other than that one fight with Izual, there wasn't a single time during any of my leveling so far that I've even fallen below half hp. Playing inferno really does make you a lot better at avoiding stuff apparently. These numbers (and the rest once someone finds them) would be great in the OP! I'm always hesitant to fight a boss since I'm not sure of their stats and want to be at least at the same level when I attempt them.
Those DPS numbers are quite overkill in nightmare mode. Not that I'm taking anything away from that, you do have to do what you gotta do to survive. Just don't take those as "zomg I need those numbers or I won't stand a chance!" =P
The HP numbers are easily attainable benchmarks, although you do want closer to 3k HP for normal Diablo. However, you shouldn't need the AH or heavy farming to comfortably beat those bosses on nightmare.
I'll post some numbers from my HC barbarian's progression in comparison.
Normal Diablo - 3.5k HP, 300 dps, LV31
Nightmare Buthcer - 4.5k HP, 800 dps, LV36 - decided to ditch the shield for some sexy giant weapons
Nightmare Belial - 7k HP, 1100 dps, LV41
Nightmare Azmodan - 14k HP, 1300 dps, LV47
Nightmare Diablo - 14k HP, 1250 dps, LV49 - shield goes back on for this act. The extra defense was sorely needed!
From the beginning of nightmare mode to where I'm at now, my armor (with war cry) started around 2200 to 3000. The really important thing is having a lot of damage reduction to safely take a giant hit without going "oh shit!", especially if you don't have the damage to just gun em down.
EDIT - Nightmare Diablo down! I had a 120 dps 1 hander, 850 STR, and a shield on for this act. My armor buffed with warcry shot up to 3700.
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I really enjoyed reading this article and it gave me the idea to switch from SC to HC since I was getting pretty bored of the grind in SC. Now I'm having a great time in HC all over again!
I was wondering if there is a comprehensive leveling guide by class for HC. I would like be able to know what minimum stats are recommended before progressing to certain bosses/difficulties. Also good grinding points along the way, etc.
I've been playing with my friend which is a lot of fun, however I feel it would be more fun to have a small community of HC playing friends to help eachother out, level, etc. Personally I much prefer HC in a group. Any other people interested in playing together? Send me a PM.
Currently I have a Wizard at lvl 30, Monk lvl 15 in HC
I also have a Barb / WD both lvl 60 in SC with over 40M of gear easily.
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On June 16 2012 04:47 Phael wrote:
Fairly sure base damage numbers are available from bradygames' guide.
To finish up pre-inferno:
Hell butcher - 17k hp, 4700 dps, level 52
Hell belial - 18k hp, 5900 dps, level 55
Hell azmodan - 17k hp, 7400 dps, level 57
Hell diablo - 17k hp, 7600 dps, level 58 (izual was downright scary here)
I've got a lot of experience with azmodan/diablo so even though I stayed at 100% hp the entire fight, those stats may not be enough if you accidentally get hit with something. Also, I miss using rubies in helm, sigh.
Those HP's are suicide wtf, plz don't post SC stats as someone might actually go for it.
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On June 16 2012 05:55 unkkz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 04:47 Phael wrote:
Fairly sure base damage numbers are available from bradygames' guide.
To finish up pre-inferno:
Hell butcher - 17k hp, 4700 dps, level 52
Hell belial - 18k hp, 5900 dps, level 55
Hell azmodan - 17k hp, 7400 dps, level 57
Hell diablo - 17k hp, 7600 dps, level 58 (izual was downright scary here)
I've got a lot of experience with azmodan/diablo so even though I stayed at 100% hp the entire fight, those stats may not be enough if you accidentally get hit with something. Also, I miss using rubies in helm, sigh. Those HP's are suicide wtf, plz don't post SC stats as someone might actually go for it.
Heh, you say those stats are suicide, yet a previous poster claimed they were overkill. To be honest, I just sat down and cleared most of hell in one setting without visiting the AH which is why the variation in hp is so low (found a decent ring along the way that cost me vit as well.)
I wouldn't actually try it, but I'm confident that force armor + those stats is enough to survive almost all big, avoidable attacks. And if it wasn't clear, this is indeed a hardcore char.
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On June 16 2012 06:09 Phael wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 05:55 unkkz wrote:On June 16 2012 04:47 Phael wrote:
Fairly sure base damage numbers are available from bradygames' guide.
To finish up pre-inferno:
Hell butcher - 17k hp, 4700 dps, level 52
Hell belial - 18k hp, 5900 dps, level 55
Hell azmodan - 17k hp, 7400 dps, level 57
Hell diablo - 17k hp, 7600 dps, level 58 (izual was downright scary here)
I've got a lot of experience with azmodan/diablo so even though I stayed at 100% hp the entire fight, those stats may not be enough if you accidentally get hit with something. Also, I miss using rubies in helm, sigh. Those HP's are suicide wtf, plz don't post SC stats as someone might actually go for it. Heh, you say those stats are suicide, the a previous poster claimed they were overkill. To be honest, I just sat down and cleared most of hell in one go without visiting the AH which is why the variation in hp is so low (found a decent ring that lost me vit as well.) I won't actually try it, but I'm confident that force armor + those stats is enough to survive almost all big, avoidable attacks. And if it wasn't clear, this is indeed a hardcore char.
That is the definition of unsafe play and will without a doubt get people killed. One hiccup, one lagspike and you are done for. Like posted in the OP if people can do it with 5k hp, fine, congratulations. But it is hardly anything that should be recommended to anyone since it's simply stupid and unsafe. I might be going overboard with my criticism here but people dying due to too low HP pools just plain sucks.
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On June 16 2012 06:54 unkkz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 06:09 Phael wrote:On June 16 2012 05:55 unkkz wrote:On June 16 2012 04:47 Phael wrote:
Fairly sure base damage numbers are available from bradygames' guide.
To finish up pre-inferno:
Hell butcher - 17k hp, 4700 dps, level 52
Hell belial - 18k hp, 5900 dps, level 55
Hell azmodan - 17k hp, 7400 dps, level 57
Hell diablo - 17k hp, 7600 dps, level 58 (izual was downright scary here)
I've got a lot of experience with azmodan/diablo so even though I stayed at 100% hp the entire fight, those stats may not be enough if you accidentally get hit with something. Also, I miss using rubies in helm, sigh. Those HP's are suicide wtf, plz don't post SC stats as someone might actually go for it. Heh, you say those stats are suicide, the a previous poster claimed they were overkill. To be honest, I just sat down and cleared most of hell in one go without visiting the AH which is why the variation in hp is so low (found a decent ring that lost me vit as well.) I won't actually try it, but I'm confident that force armor + those stats is enough to survive almost all big, avoidable attacks. And if it wasn't clear, this is indeed a hardcore char. That is the definition of unsafe play and will without a doubt get people killed. One hiccup, one lagspike and you are done for. Like posted in the OP if people can do it with 5k hp, fine, congratulations. But it is hardly anything that should be recommended to anyone since it's simply stupid and unsafe. I might be going overboard with my criticism here but people dying due to too low HP pools just plain sucks.
I did ask people what stats they're clearing bosses with. If you think they're low okay but having different datapoints is good. It's not like Phael is saying if you go for higher HP you're a noob.
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On June 16 2012 06:09 Phael wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 05:55 unkkz wrote:On June 16 2012 04:47 Phael wrote:
Fairly sure base damage numbers are available from bradygames' guide.
To finish up pre-inferno:
Hell butcher - 17k hp, 4700 dps, level 52
Hell belial - 18k hp, 5900 dps, level 55
Hell azmodan - 17k hp, 7400 dps, level 57
Hell diablo - 17k hp, 7600 dps, level 58 (izual was downright scary here)
I've got a lot of experience with azmodan/diablo so even though I stayed at 100% hp the entire fight, those stats may not be enough if you accidentally get hit with something. Also, I miss using rubies in helm, sigh. Those HP's are suicide wtf, plz don't post SC stats as someone might actually go for it. Heh, you say those stats are suicide, the a previous poster claimed they were overkill. To be honest, I just sat down and cleared most of hell in one go without visiting the AH which is why the variation in hp is so low (found a decent ring that lost me vit as well.) I won't actually try it, but I'm confident that force armor + those stats is enough to survive almost all big, avoidable attacks. And if it wasn't clear, this is indeed a hardcore char.
Hum, good point with force armor. I forgot it's pretty hax before inferno. =P
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Would be cool if you added some polls or information about how much hp/dps ppl have when they kill act bosses.
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nice guide. i completely left sc, on my 4th char now on HC, a WD (level 48). i manage to get some friends to play with me on HC, but most don't even want to try it, a shame.
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Eh, just throwing my most recent stat in:
19k hp, 2.8k dps for Nightmare Diablo as Monk
...what, I play safe.
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I'm in inferno act 1 (NA server), and I would like to start a group or work with others to farm gobos. Please shoot me a PM if interested.
Not sure when I'm ready to begin progressing through the act, but I'd rather be safe than sorry!
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Rmah made SC unplayable as this is against every instinct and belief I have in games
disconnects made HC unplayable. Lost my first HC to a disconnect after 12 hours.
Cashing out and moving on.... 
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A great read  . But I realised you wrote "strenght in numbers". Haha.
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Definatly trying out hardcore now, because softcore is getting fucking boring
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playing barb i had about double the amount of hp mentioned above which was great for playing with a friend.
i couldnt die if i wanted on standard stuff and if there is some teleport firechain thing you can still live through it
everytime.
but i dont get that low hp numbers anyway.
i just did diablo on normal with a wizard and had 6k hp with some gems =O
edit :
had 38k hp 400 res all 600 physical res for diablo hell w/ shout.
was overkill tho helpfull against 2 packs of rare mobs with teleport,firechain,molten // teleport / that red void zone on the ground thingy / watever
edit 2 :
i just wanted to let people know that i think the numbers on top of this page are _really_ low.
while they can work,they could also get you killed.
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On June 16 2012 06:09 Phael wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 05:55 unkkz wrote:On June 16 2012 04:47 Phael wrote:
Fairly sure base damage numbers are available from bradygames' guide.
To finish up pre-inferno:
Hell butcher - 17k hp, 4700 dps, level 52
Hell belial - 18k hp, 5900 dps, level 55
Hell azmodan - 17k hp, 7400 dps, level 57
Hell diablo - 17k hp, 7600 dps, level 58 (izual was downright scary here)
I've got a lot of experience with azmodan/diablo so even though I stayed at 100% hp the entire fight, those stats may not be enough if you accidentally get hit with something. Also, I miss using rubies in helm, sigh. Those HP's are suicide wtf, plz don't post SC stats as someone might actually go for it. Heh, you say those stats are suicide, yet a previous poster claimed they were overkill. To be honest, I just sat down and cleared most of hell in one setting without visiting the AH which is why the variation in hp is so low (found a decent ring along the way that cost me vit as well.) I wouldn't actually try it, but I'm confident that force armor + those stats is enough to survive almost all big, avoidable attacks. And if it wasn't clear, this is indeed a hardcore char.
I think you can make it through with those stats, but you're dancing with luck. If you don't see a bunch of suicide mobs as you run through a doorway, it's the difference between barely surviving them all exploding and staring at a deeds screen. Or a badly timed waller/jailer just as you're running away from a mortar. Etc.
You don't just want to have enough HP to survive what you will encounter on average - you want to be able to survive the worst case situation.
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Died in hell A1 with 37K hp (on a barb). Just follow the easy formula of having roughly 1:1 main stat/vitality ratio. You can go a bit over, unless you dont feel safe. For normal/nightmare you can use pretty offensive builds up to A3 NM where you start to run into mobs that hit harder or are harder to avoid.
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HC to me is just a chore.
It is a bigger challenge then SC but it's just a chore since most of the time you're basically waiting a bit before you are overgeared/overleveled before continuing to more dangerous areas. Later on when you can't outlevel stuff anymore it get's much more interesting but you already have to put so much time in to get there that it's not worth the hassle to me considering how often lag spikes just lead to random deaths.
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On June 16 2012 21:35 Markwerf wrote:
HC to me is just a chore.
It is a bigger challenge then SC but it's just a chore since most of the time you're basically waiting a bit before you are overgeared/overleveled before continuing to more dangerous areas. Later on when you can't outlevel stuff anymore it get's much more interesting but you already have to put so much time in to get there that it's not worth the hassle to me considering how often lag spikes just lead to random deaths.
i semi agree.
the chore of having to relevel a character that you just lost.
the out leveling/out gearing is in every games hardest difficulty/modes so im fine with that concept
however, since blizzard is hell bent on stopping powerleveling and forcing us to enjoy their "masterpiece" of a questline it takes ALOT out of the experience.
IN OTHER NEWS, since other people are posting their stats of when they beat bosses and such ill add mine.
My DH was level 35 when he killed diablo normal
Hp: 4.9k
Damage: 891
Armor 570
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Bnet is too unstable for hardcore mode.
Die while they boot you out for maintenance.
Die with crap fps cause bnet decides to lag out of the blue.
Etc.
Else i would of played hc tho, but these things are too frustrating to die to.
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EPT
