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On June 21 2012 04:23 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 04:13 Sek-Kuar wrote:On June 21 2012 04:06 Heh_ wrote:On June 21 2012 03:56 Phael wrote:
Oh, I meant MF swapping and rolling with constant MF are both superior to having none (obviously), it's just a matter of which path is better. Constant MF gives reliability and convenience, while MF swapping is more of a bigger risk and effort/bigger reward thing. Well, most people can't afford good gear with high MF. I guess it depends on what basal level of MF you want: is it 50% (easy to attain without much effort) or closer to 200%? I guess if you want the best of both worlds, just swap the amulet and helm. You can get 80-90 mf based on these two items alone. Or maybe if they cant affor good mf gear they should go farm on hell with worse mf gear or play without mf gear? What do you want from this game? If you cant affor gear to finish inferno, just type godlike mode cheat and kill everything? Why do you propose different standards for mfruns and game progress? I really have no idea what you're harping about. It seems to me that you're complaining for the sake of complaining.
And to me it seems that people like you want Blizzard to make game exactly as hard as only those who truly deserve it can finish it, but at the same time let there those exploits so when one knows it he can get better stuff than people who deserves it 10x more. Coincidentally during this progress also get items to finish game perhaps even make profit on RMAH.
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The patch pretty much makes it so everyone who was 100% geared and have a stash of bestin slot rares, are pretty much untouched.
everyone who was grinding act 3 inferno, with good(but not best in slot) gear got screwed.
everyone who was having difficulty in act 2, likes this patch, but will soon reach the ranks of the aformentioned group.
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I find that since patch, farming as a group is much more efficient.
Yesterday I tried solo farming A3, spent close to 300k on repair with no drop worth AH, then did with a few friends, still nothing worth selling but at least not bleeding money from repairing.
Just need another 2mil to upgrade my boots then I will shelf farming and level some other chars.
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On June 21 2012 04:45 wei2coolman wrote:
The patch pretty much makes it so everyone who was 100% geared and have a stash of bestin slot rares, are pretty much untouched.
everyone who was grinding act 3 inferno, with good(but not best in slot) gear got screwed.
everyone who was having difficulty in act 2, likes this patch, but will soon reach the ranks of the aformentioned group.
this is pretty much it.
i cant wrap my head around these loot changes. everyone will lose interest in farming gear VERY QUICKLY...
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On June 21 2012 04:41 Sek-Kuar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 04:23 Heh_ wrote:On June 21 2012 04:13 Sek-Kuar wrote:On June 21 2012 04:06 Heh_ wrote:On June 21 2012 03:56 Phael wrote:
Oh, I meant MF swapping and rolling with constant MF are both superior to having none (obviously), it's just a matter of which path is better. Constant MF gives reliability and convenience, while MF swapping is more of a bigger risk and effort/bigger reward thing. Well, most people can't afford good gear with high MF. I guess it depends on what basal level of MF you want: is it 50% (easy to attain without much effort) or closer to 200%? I guess if you want the best of both worlds, just swap the amulet and helm. You can get 80-90 mf based on these two items alone. Or maybe if they cant affor good mf gear they should go farm on hell with worse mf gear or play without mf gear? What do you want from this game? If you cant affor gear to finish inferno, just type godlike mode cheat and kill everything? Why do you propose different standards for mfruns and game progress? I really have no idea what you're harping about. It seems to me that you're complaining for the sake of complaining. And to me it seems that people like you want Blizzard to make game exactly as hard as only those who truly deserve it can finish it, but at the same time let there those exploits so when one knows it he can get better stuff than people who deserves it 10x more. Coincidentally during this progress also get items to finish game perhaps even make profit on RMAH.
Your reply has nothing to do with the argument about MF swapping. It's a poor attempt to bash me. So I'll state my stance: Yes I want the game to be hard so that any random bloke can't complete it without putting in some effort. However, any exploits should be nerfed to the ground. MF swapping is NOT an exploit. It has been known since D2, and it has been so widely propagated that it basically functions as a mechanic. Blizzard knows all about it, they left it in deliberately.
If you have farmed more, it's obvious that you'll make more profits on the RMAH. Duh. Thanks for pointing that out, Captain Obvious.
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I'm fine with gear swapping, and fine if Blizz disable gear swapping (best way I see doing this is that you can only change equipment / skill outside the game). But if it's available then I will use it and won't tell anyone else to not use it.
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Oh well, on one hand I lost 9k dps (42->33 with pierce the veil, WD), on the other, elites hit like paper towels in inferno now, can actually run around a grp of mortars (in dead zone) without getting 1-2 shot. On a third hand some builds are unusable to 5 NV farm now due to boss enrage timers (5NV -> Siegebreaker, killed right before I died from enrage, and can't do much more dps, and bears are bugged, so not really much better dps that I can get - was using Splinters/Haunt as dps abilities).
Actually, come to think about it, Bears builds are a lot more viable now cause of the lower dmg the mobs do - once the spell is fixed that is. I'd go as far as to say they got nerfed by 30%, but just a feeling, no proof.
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On June 21 2012 05:39 ragz_gt wrote:
I'm fine with gear swapping, and fine if Blizz disable gear swapping (best way I see doing this is that you can only change equipment / skill outside the game). But if it's available then I will use it and won't tell anyone else to not use it.
I could see gear swapping only be allowed outside of combat at some point. This allows to swap into mf gear before an elite pack / boss, but not at the last hit. This also allows for situational gear swaps (life on hit) for champ packs too.
In combat / out of combat mechanics do exist, or else the "survival" achievement / popup wouldn't exist.
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how're you gonna get out of combat to swap in a life on hit weapon? Port home? Fat chance because by the time you see the pack with reflect damage it's too late, they're on your ass
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On June 21 2012 07:48 Mysticesper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 05:39 ragz_gt wrote:
I'm fine with gear swapping, and fine if Blizz disable gear swapping (best way I see doing this is that you can only change equipment / skill outside the game). But if it's available then I will use it and won't tell anyone else to not use it. I could see gear swapping only be allowed outside of combat at some point. This allows to swap into mf gear before an elite pack / boss, but not at the last hit. This also allows for situational gear swaps (life on hit) for champ packs too. In combat / out of combat mechanics do exist, or else the "survival" achievement / popup wouldn't exist.
which is one of the must bugged "popups" in the game as you well know. I can't count the times I've gotten it and died straight after, same for the savior stuff when playing in a party. Usually when i see savior I know I should head over and ress someone after the fight 
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On June 21 2012 07:50 KOFgokuon wrote:
how're you gonna get out of combat to swap in a life on hit weapon? Port home? Fat chance because by the time you see the pack with reflect damage it's too late, they're on your ass
I dunno, I usually have time before engaging an elite pack, unless stuff keeps chain pulling. It was just an idea as a middle point between always allow and never allow (remove neph stacks)
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Has anyone noticed that the number of elites per map seems to have a larger range? Previously on butcher runs, I've gotten 1-2 per map but now it's 1-4. I thought it was just random chance cause I don't do enough runs to have any meaningful sample but I just got TEN elites in watchtower. It was ridiculous and I've never heard of so many on a single map. There were 2 or 3 times 2 packs were grouped together. Then I did it again and got 1 total lol.
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Butcher runs was never 1-2 per map.
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everyone who was grinding act 3 inferno, with good(but not best in slot) gear got screwed.
Dont feel that at all. I had around 70k dps before patch doing Azmo runs and selling anything worth >50 euro. So not anythng close to best in slot gear.
After patch I dropped to 55k but still can farm him without dying more than 2-3 times.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 21 2012 08:27 KazeHydra wrote:
Has anyone noticed that the number of elites per map seems to have a larger range? Previously on butcher runs, I've gotten 1-2 per map but now it's 1-4. I thought it was just random chance cause I don't do enough runs to have any meaningful sample but I just got TEN elites in watchtower. It was ridiculous and I've never heard of so many on a single map. There were 2 or 3 times 2 packs were grouped together. Then I did it again and got 1 total lol.
10 in Watch Tower is pretty crazy. I ran Watch Tower into the ground pre-patch and the most I ever got was 6.
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On June 21 2012 08:37 skyR wrote:
Butcher runs was never 1-2 per map.
I was only stating my personal experience, which was always 1-2, but I acknowledged I didn't do enough runs to have any meaningful sample. What about watchtower? I'm not suggesting I'm right but I've just never heard of having ten elites in that one map.
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On June 21 2012 08:43 Kenpark wrote:Show nested quote +everyone who was grinding act 3 inferno, with good(but not best in slot) gear got screwed. Dont feel that at all. I had around 70k dps before patch doing Azmo runs and selling anything worth >50 euro. So not anythng close to best in slot gear. After patch I dropped to 55k but still can farm him without dying more than 2-3 times.
Have you noticed the quality of your drops though?
Pre-patch, about half my items were lvl 62-63.
Post-patch, less than a quarter of my items were lvl 62-63.
The latter is supported by blizzard patch notes, the previous from multiple loot recorders.
So sure, runs got a bit safer, and with practice, you probably get slightly more rares/hour (by a small margin) if you play for 3 hour chunks, but the quality of your loot has gone way down.
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I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
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On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote:
I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
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On June 21 2012 09:06 Coolness53 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote:
I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs. Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
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EPT
