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So I think this is a good discussion, and I'm shocket there isn't a topic about it. What do you guys think about leveling up artisans, especially the blacksmith ? My input is that it may not be worth not even on the higher levels unless you first drop a legendary or set recipe (and it will probably sell only because of the color).
For instance I have a blacksmith in the 4th level and droped this recipe http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/artisan/blacksmith/recipe/exalted-sovereign-mail it had a lower armor than most cheap armors on the ah and it gives me 4 random stats for 51k gold, with the same ammount of gold I can probably buy gear with way better stats unless we are talking about resistances or some other rare stat I don't remember armors can have, and this is a tiny chance compared to a mounstrous chance of completely useless stats.
So what do you think about it ? Share your experiences with crafting, was it worth or not ?
PS: sorry for bad grammar english isnt my main language
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For me it has worked out very well. If you want to avoid the auction house but get gear at your level, it works out. But is a big money sink.
If you've noticed, drops from monsters are almost always below level by about 5 levels or more. Atleast from my time playing (only in nightmare currently but yeah), I've never got an item that was roundabout the level I was, and buying something from the auction house didnt really seem like fun. But through crafting I got reasonably good stuff...but you also get a lot of duds at times. Most of the time though, one good item from the auction house gets you through the whole act, because nothing else good drops(comparatively).
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On May 31 2012 21:51 dartoo wrote:
For me it has worked out very well. If you want to avoid the auction house but get gear at your level, it works out. But is a big money sink.
If you've noticed, drops from monsters are almost always below level by about 5 levels or more. Atleast from my time playing (only in nightmare currently but yeah), I've never got an item that was roundabout the level I was, and buying something from the auction house didnt really seem like fun. But through crafting I got reasonably good stuff...but you also get a lot of duds at times. Most of the time though, one good item from the auction house gets you through the whole act, because nothing else good drops(comparatively).
Well that doesnt apply to inferno 
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I stoped leveling blacksmith mid-Nightmare.
I think it's not worth it at all. You get better gear in AH for 5k-10k gold.
At least currently it's better to buy from AH, maybe later when prices for items get figured out and you won't find cheap deals, but currently your better off saving gold. (Pro Tip: for lower levels search for "Lower Level Requirement")
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United States47024 Posts
Answered before.
It's profitable if you get one of the really rare recipes that are high demand on AH (e.g. uniques/set items or the 5- or 6-property level 60 rares). For common stuff like the recipes you automatically get from leveling up, it's not worth it.
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ops indeed I just read the first page of topics :S
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I saw a stream with someone in act 1/2 inferno and he had like 3 or 4 crafted items and doing well. Crafting might not get you through the game all the way through inferno but if you get the right plans and such and spend some money on it, it can certainly be helpful.
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It depends, as much of the rest of the item system (aside from AH) on luck. If you, lets say, find a recipe with 6 randoms and get lucky, it can save you 20 million from the AH, still it is unlikely. In my opinion, it can be a great money safer and a great money sink, just depending on how lucky you get with rolling the crafts.
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Weapons? Never, they suck, always. Why? Because the base weapon your crafting sucks, they usually have ~20% lower base dps than the best rare drop weapons available. I realized that after I had crafted ~15m away T.T.
Armor, maybe, but don't think so. Perhaps gloves and try to be lucky with good AS% + primary + crit dmg modifiers or something but can't see any other slow being worth it. Maybe shoulders as well because legendary shoulders seem all awful, but at other slots there's always a leg/set item that has affix (IE AS%) that isn't available in rares, making them always better.
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IMO it's not worth it. As someone said in this thread, it's better the AH.
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I've made a little off of some of the rare recipes (6mod gloves and a 6mod dagger), I charge mats + a crafting fee, would never craft things on my own because the gold cost is way to high vs your odds.
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everyone i know who crafts a bunch @ lv 60 with a few recipes are down gold from crafting.
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Im not going to worry about crafting til i have lots of gold. Like 20 million plus.
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Canada9720 Posts
i started out crafting, but the randomness really sucks. you end up dumping way too much money in it if you get unlucky.
it seems like blizzard is going to patch forging, though, since they probably want it to be a viable alternative to the AH
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I also stopped crafting mid-nightmare. Mainly because the gold cost for each craft is unreasonably high and keeps getting higher. I'd like it to be viable, I don't enjoy trawling the AH that much but that seems to be the only viable way to get inferno gear.
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It doesn't seem very viable right now. As previously stated in this thread, it simply costs too much. You could buy the item you want from the AH straight up, or roll 10 rares with the same money with a minimal chance of getting the one you want.
I'm still farming materials though since they will probably buff crafting at some point.
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You guys do realize that the armor/dps is only a base. The armor/dps that is shown by the blacksmith is the absolute lowest you can get. I made a pair of Exalted sovereign gloves that have a base of around 230 and it turned out to be 380 armor with all resist, vitality, strength and 5 yards on pickup. Sometimes you get sockets, magic find and massive amounts of one stat.
I'm in inferno act 2, doing fairly well with 2 pieces of crafted armor. Gloves and chest. All my other gear is basically equivalent to them as far as stats go.
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I think that crafting THoC is going to be profitable in the long run, but the variance makes it so that... it's really risky if you cannot fund it properly.
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On May 31 2012 21:53 noD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 21:51 dartoo wrote:
For me it has worked out very well. If you want to avoid the auction house but get gear at your level, it works out. But is a big money sink.
If you've noticed, drops from monsters are almost always below level by about 5 levels or more. Atleast from my time playing (only in nightmare currently but yeah), I've never got an item that was roundabout the level I was, and buying something from the auction house didnt really seem like fun. But through crafting I got reasonably good stuff...but you also get a lot of duds at times. Most of the time though, one good item from the auction house gets you through the whole act, because nothing else good drops(comparatively). Well that doesnt apply to inferno
Yeah it does. I'm still seeing level 51 items dropping in act 2 inferno.
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On June 01 2012 03:55 Duskbane wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 21:53 noD wrote:On May 31 2012 21:51 dartoo wrote:
For me it has worked out very well. If you want to avoid the auction house but get gear at your level, it works out. But is a big money sink.
If you've noticed, drops from monsters are almost always below level by about 5 levels or more. Atleast from my time playing (only in nightmare currently but yeah), I've never got an item that was roundabout the level I was, and buying something from the auction house didnt really seem like fun. But through crafting I got reasonably good stuff...but you also get a lot of duds at times. Most of the time though, one good item from the auction house gets you through the whole act, because nothing else good drops(comparatively). Well that doesnt apply to inferno Yeah it does. I'm still seeing level 51 items dropping in act 2 inferno.
Read again and understand that it doesn't apply to inferno because you CAN get level 60 items and you have to be level 60 (no higher or lower) to be in inferno.
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Yes, I miss rune words too.
I don't miss the high level rune words--those can suck a male chicken--I miss the low level rune words that help you out during the puberty stages of lvling up a character. That 40ish (in D3) and 60ish (in D2) where you really want to have the "good stuff" already, but you need to sow your oats on something cool and fancy--though not necessarily powerful.
With just the right proc chances, or just the right stats on just too low level an item. Or has all the stats you need except the 1-2 relevant ones. Rune words that were "almost" good enough for end game play--but you knew that once the good stuff came along you'd replace it.
I miss those crafter items.
I don't need stuff that's as good as end game stuff--I want stuff a notch or two down from best in slot that costs as much to make as it costs to buy in the AH.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 01 2012 07:14 lorkac wrote:
Yes, I miss rune words too.
I don't miss the high level rune words--those can suck a male chicken--I miss the low level rune words that help you out during the puberty stages of lvling up a character. That 40ish (in D3) and 60ish (in D2) where you really want to have the "good stuff" already, but you need to sow your oats on something cool and fancy--though not necessarily powerful.
With just the right proc chances, or just the right stats on just too low level an item. Or has all the stats you need except the 1-2 relevant ones. Rune words that were "almost" good enough for end game play--but you knew that once the good stuff came along you'd replace it.
I miss those crafter items.
I don't need stuff that's as good as end game stuff--I want stuff a notch or two down from best in slot that costs as much to make as it costs to buy in the AH.
Their intent with crafting was to accomplish what runewords did in D2 in a little more streamlined way. The problem is that a) the opportunity cost of salvaging blues that could be vendored or AHed is too high, and b) the randomness makes it unreliable to get your own gear from it.
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I didn´t upgrade the artisan until i was at inferno and the cost didn´t "hurt" so much cause you could farm way better than in the stages before. But if you reach the cap the artisan is the cheapest way to get good items. All the lvl 60 items at the Ah cost me about >1mil while the artisan´s costs are below 50k each time.
Of course using the artisan has always a luck-factor but the minor chance to get an awesome item is higher than get a good drop or farm money for the AH.
The only problem i have right now is that i can´t buy the mats for crafting and if i have to produce them it doesn´t pay of anymore(at least in my opinion).
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Sell your 5-6 mod recipes. You're guaranteed money. Safer profit margins.
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If i could start all over again i would just vendor everything and not spend a dime on BS i would have so much more money and buy better gear from AH.
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I think mass high-level crafting isn't going to be worth it for one simple reason.
Crafted items are not the highest tier versions of the items - the highest tier drops have higher base armor/dmg values and I think higher possible stats as well.
Weapons in particular suffer greatly from this because dps is the most valuable stat and it's not as important to have a lot of different stats in the same item. Highest tier blues have higher base damage then any of the grand exalted [weapon]s, and are common enough that there's always plenty on the AH. This means you'll need some excellent damage rolls to outclass average damage rolls for these blues. Coupled with high crafting fees...
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Crafting has to work though right? I mean doesn't it have to produce items that are on par with top tier drops that you can find in the world? I say this in regards to economy. If crafting is worthless, then the gold currency itself becomes worthless. The only reason I've assumed gold was worth anything was because of its use in crafting. Once you have 100+ million gold, and have all the items you really need, what are you going to do with that money? Why would anyone want that much money unless crafting was viable.
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Unless there are very good (dare i say best in slot) crafters only soulbound items, I will not start crafting. Decent items on the AH cost way the hell too much to be spending gold on anything else.
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Ya basically crafting is the only real goldsink other than the 15% on the AH. Eventually the very desirable items on the AH are going to inflate to the point where crafting becomes a reasonable option.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 01 2012 07:58 Delvin wrote:
Crafted items are not the highest tier versions of the items - the highest tier drops have higher base armor/dmg values and I think higher possible stats as well.
http://d3db.com/item/i/archon-crown
http://d3db.com/item/i/sovereign-helm
11 out of the 372 possible affixes for Exalted Grand Sovereign Helms are lower-tier affixes that cannot be rolled on Archon Crowns. The fact that the crafting recipe guarantees rolling 6 properties outweighs the fact that there are 11 out of 372 poor properties that you don't want to roll.
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Combining gems or even removing them from armor pieces is quite a waste of money as well, often times! It
's much cheaper to just buy new ones from the AH most of the time. Only Act III NM currently but still...
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5-6 mod items with passable stats are always fun to roll, with no alternative in item pieces <2M I take my chances. But still wishing for a good roll. :|
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The main problem with crafting has to do with the items. It has to do with the AH. Good items are possible cheaper through crafting while they are guaranteed more expensive in the AH.
However, being that crafting doesn't ensure a good item, while the auction house does, means that you either depend on luck with crafting or pay for a sure thing with the AH.
Most people would rather have the sure thing than to take a risk.
This is because you gain gold by selling items--which you can't sell if you disenchant it. So all your pick ups either are spent on the AH or Crafting--but not both.
Once blizzard decides to fix crafting they will make it require drops that are almost as hard to get as act 4 legendaries, only then could they afford to buff crafting.
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Just as new runewords were added to d2 and new content is always added to WoW, expect to see in the future more from the artisans, even maybe them bringing back the one they got rid of in development. If you hit level 10 artisans now, its probably a waste if you won't need it until then, but it might be easier now than it will be then. Leveling up my artisans along with my character's level has been a major gold dump, but I don't feel like its a total loss. At the very least I feel that a lot of the best low level items will be coming from crafted items, whenever that market starts to develop and we see some perfect roll blues emerge.
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Several improvements I'd love to blacksmithing.
Someone already suggested adding gem to reagants which would force a specific stat in it to reduce randomness. Of course gem quality would increase the amount of stats in an item, e.g radiant star=always 100% perf primary stat, but holy shit that would cost alot.
Also, they could make superior items that drop to be usable as a "base" like in D2 runewords so the item would have the random stats+superior items bonus (AS, armor, etc). Would give at least some use for those items that right now aren't even worth to pick up.
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Its worth it on hardcore atleast since items above like 54 are pretty scarce on the AH and you can luck out and get some nice 59 stuff before inferno. Mediocre rare dex vit pants ilvl 54 - 59 go for like 400k, all res items of all sorts ranging from 100k - 1mil. So if you luck out you can make a nice amount of gold or save some if u use it yourself.
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On June 01 2012 21:36 Mammel wrote:
Several improvements I'd love to blacksmithing.
Someone already suggested adding gem to reagants which would force a specific stat in it to reduce randomness. Of course gem quality would increase the amount of stats in an item, e.g radiant star=always 100% perf primary stat, but holy shit that would cost alot.
That is a really good idea... I've spent so much on gems now but don't have much to use them on.
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It's going to get patched, the economics of it at this point really doesn't work out at the moment. The thing is, with all the extra gold sinks that exist right now, it's very difficult for gold to accumulate in the economy to the point where crafting is at all feasible except in very specific circumstances.
On June 01 2012 21:36 Mammel wrote:
Several improvements I'd love to blacksmithing.
Someone already suggested adding gem to reagants which would force a specific stat in it to reduce randomness. Of course gem quality would increase the amount of stats in an item, e.g radiant star=always 100% perf primary stat, but holy shit that would cost alot.
Also, they could make superior items that drop to be usable as a "base" like in D2 runewords so the item would have the random stats+superior items bonus (AS, armor, etc). Would give at least some use for those items that right now aren't even worth to pick up.
I really like this idea too
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The Blacksmith is very useful if you are rolling up a new char.
Also, if you keep your blacksmith close to your char level, it's allways worth a try to improve your gear. Crafting materials and gold aren't a problem if you only try to improve one thing of your equipment after a few level ups! I like the blacksmith! 
And it even could get better, after patch.
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Crafting 6 mod items isnt terrible, can get some decent stuff but it is incredibly expensive. To the guy talking about blue weaps vs rare 6 mod ... the dps number isnt everything. You can lose 400 base dps on your weap if you have 20% crit and roll crit dmg bonus and a socket. Theres a reason 750dps rare 1h sell for more than 1000dps blue.. Blue is junk garb. I have 707dps with stat that gives a 7000dmg boost over a blue 990
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i have a exalted grand sov helm plan and it is pretty good. buying all exquisite essences in any quantity. profit sharing for old time tl members
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There is a profit to be made. If you find the really good recipes but still have to get good rolls on them.
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If it helps any, I rolled grand exalted sovereign vambraces (6 affix gloves) about 30 times yesterday. Assuming exquisite essences, tomes, and tears are about half of what they were when the commodities AH went down like two weeks ago, that's about 150k-200k a craft and 5 mil that I spent crafting them.
I think I managed to make 3 mil off of the gloves I crafted, there were a couple good ones worth 1 mil then the rest were 50-100k welfare gloves or just pure garbage.
Probably should've held onto the plans and sold them for 5mil+ but oh well, at least I cleared out a bunch of crafting mats that were clogging up my inventory.
30 rolls is obviously not too statistically relevant, but a fair number to consider at least.
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EPT
