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Balance disussion (Inferno) - Page 16

Forum Index > Diablo 3
Post a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 23 Next All
hkf
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia354 Posts
May 23 2012 23:01 GMT
#301
On May 24 2012 07:53 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 07:15 BrauL wrote:
So many people don't understand how to item&skill build their chars. That's the first step. The second is learning how to micro so you don't die. Come on people this is a bw and sc2 forum; the most complex and difficult games out there. You can figure out d3 inferno.


you can't compare the notions of micro btwn d3 and a RTS like SC2. it's like trying to micro a fungaled marine against a swarm of ultralisks.


Actually a wiz is like playing a single marine

against cracklings
kethers
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States719 Posts
May 23 2012 23:02 GMT
#302
On May 24 2012 07:53 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 07:15 BrauL wrote:
So many people don't understand how to item&skill build their chars. That's the first step. The second is learning how to micro so you don't die. Come on people this is a bw and sc2 forum; the most complex and difficult games out there. You can figure out d3 inferno.


you can't compare the notions of micro btwn d3 and a RTS like SC2. it's like trying to micro a fungaled marine against a swarm of ultralisks.


With a baneling under you, and forcefields on all sides
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
May 23 2012 23:09 GMT
#303
On May 24 2012 08:01 hkf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 07:53 JoeSchmoe wrote:
On May 24 2012 07:15 BrauL wrote:
So many people don't understand how to item&skill build their chars. That's the first step. The second is learning how to micro so you don't die. Come on people this is a bw and sc2 forum; the most complex and difficult games out there. You can figure out d3 inferno.


you can't compare the notions of micro btwn d3 and a RTS like SC2. it's like trying to micro a fungaled marine against a swarm of ultralisks.


Actually a wiz is like playing a single marine

against cracklings

arcane orb slows, so it's totally like playing a marauder

inferno mode is mass immortals though
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
May 23 2012 23:10 GMT
#304
Im still skeptical when people claim Act 2 inferno is IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT WITH PERFECT GEAR like so many seem to try to claim
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
May 23 2012 23:14 GMT
#305
On May 24 2012 08:09 Dfgj wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 08:01 hkf wrote:
On May 24 2012 07:53 JoeSchmoe wrote:
On May 24 2012 07:15 BrauL wrote:
So many people don't understand how to item&skill build their chars. That's the first step. The second is learning how to micro so you don't die. Come on people this is a bw and sc2 forum; the most complex and difficult games out there. You can figure out d3 inferno.


you can't compare the notions of micro btwn d3 and a RTS like SC2. it's like trying to micro a fungaled marine against a swarm of ultralisks.


Actually a wiz is like playing a single marine

against cracklings

arcane orb slows, so it's totally like playing a marauder

inferno mode is mass immortals though


Except in this version immortals are massive cause they're immune to concussive shells.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
hkf
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia354 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-23 23:26:44
May 23 2012 23:26 GMT
#306
On May 24 2012 08:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 08:09 Dfgj wrote:
On May 24 2012 08:01 hkf wrote:
On May 24 2012 07:53 JoeSchmoe wrote:
On May 24 2012 07:15 BrauL wrote:
So many people don't understand how to item&skill build their chars. That's the first step. The second is learning how to micro so you don't die. Come on people this is a bw and sc2 forum; the most complex and difficult games out there. You can figure out d3 inferno.


you can't compare the notions of micro btwn d3 and a RTS like SC2. it's like trying to micro a fungaled marine against a swarm of ultralisks.


Actually a wiz is like playing a single marine

against cracklings

arcane orb slows, so it's totally like playing a marauder

inferno mode is mass immortals though


Except in this version immortals are massive cause they're immune to concussive shells.

Also they don't break their own forcefields (wallers) and just do a dance behind them
Mammel
Profile Joined November 2010
Finland189 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-23 23:44:23
May 23 2012 23:40 GMT
#307
On May 24 2012 07:05 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 06:35 MrTortoise wrote:
Umm most of the best programmers i know never got a comp sci degree as they are interested in solving real world problems for real people. If you want to deal with n !=np or mathematical problems then sure its great.


you don't get a comp sci degree to learn how to program. a book can teach you that in a day if you're interested in syntax. it's the study of semantics that hold any value. there's reason why the discipline is called computer science

Show nested quote +

Programming is one of those disciplines where you take 3-4 years experience over a comp sci degree and add 10k onto their salary. I am deadly serious about that and is a big part of hiring strategy. People think programming is hard when it isn't.


again you're generalizing on what constitutes as being "able to program". sure anyone can dish out code but no respectable company is going to ask you to write a trivial loop or if/else statement in their interview. no one cares about syntax.

Show nested quote +

My reason for saying the rng seems bland at best is that noone has really demonstrated something that is outside of a fairly narrow band of attributes - if there was a rng and it was capable of soemthing really wild there is no evidence of it yet. Granted its only a week but you would expect some people to have 1 set of stats on an item that are extraordinary. Maybe it is because of caps ... maybe its due to a rng that is just to normal.


of course it's not your typical rng. most likely it's a weighted rng based on some distribution. might be a little farfetched but there might be some learning involved based on AH saturation of items of specific specs and their prices.

Well, don't think theres any evidence that it's not just "Pick the stat, pick the value, repeat on all variables". Let's take SoJ for example, it has bonus to random power source to 1 class and then it has bonus to 1 of 6 possible damage source. And then theres 1 completely random stat that you'll want to be vita+your stat, vita, or your main stat, depending on your build and class. I don't know how many different stats there are, it's at least around 20 for ring. So that's 5*6*20 1/600 SoJs, most likely the rarest ring in the game (at least should be, just seen a few in AH) that it's even remotely useful to you. And ofc all the stats have wide range as well, chance to get a perfect one is in the billions.
Biggest difference in items is whether or not you'll get double stats, vita+vita/main stat affixes are ofc far more rare but have the chance to make it so much better.


Same thing might be the reason legendary weapons suck ass, they have random magic stat that varies, it's possible, though unlikely, that it can be pure +dmg that would make them insane. Although I think that leg weapons are underpowered and it's a bug/fucked up at development.

All items are listed here, with their possible stats http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/item/ring/#type=legendary
Coolness53
Profile Joined April 2010
United States668 Posts
May 24 2012 00:15 GMT
#308
On May 24 2012 08:40 Mammel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 07:05 JoeSchmoe wrote:
On May 24 2012 06:35 MrTortoise wrote:
Umm most of the best programmers i know never got a comp sci degree as they are interested in solving real world problems for real people. If you want to deal with n !=np or mathematical problems then sure its great.


you don't get a comp sci degree to learn how to program. a book can teach you that in a day if you're interested in syntax. it's the study of semantics that hold any value. there's reason why the discipline is called computer science


Programming is one of those disciplines where you take 3-4 years experience over a comp sci degree and add 10k onto their salary. I am deadly serious about that and is a big part of hiring strategy. People think programming is hard when it isn't.


again you're generalizing on what constitutes as being "able to program". sure anyone can dish out code but no respectable company is going to ask you to write a trivial loop or if/else statement in their interview. no one cares about syntax.


My reason for saying the rng seems bland at best is that noone has really demonstrated something that is outside of a fairly narrow band of attributes - if there was a rng and it was capable of soemthing really wild there is no evidence of it yet. Granted its only a week but you would expect some people to have 1 set of stats on an item that are extraordinary. Maybe it is because of caps ... maybe its due to a rng that is just to normal.


of course it's not your typical rng. most likely it's a weighted rng based on some distribution. might be a little farfetched but there might be some learning involved based on AH saturation of items of specific specs and their prices.

Well, don't think theres any evidence that it's not just "Pick the stat, pick the value, repeat on all variables". Let's take SoJ for example, it has bonus to random power source to 1 class and then it has bonus to 1 of 6 possible damage source. And then theres 1 completely random stat that you'll want to be vita+your stat, vita, or your main stat, depending on your build and class. I don't know how many different stats there are, it's at least around 20 for ring. So that's 5*6*20 1/600 SoJs, most likely the rarest ring in the game (at least should be, just seen a few in AH) that it's even remotely useful to you. And ofc all the stats have wide range as well, chance to get a perfect one is in the billions.
Biggest difference in items is whether or not you'll get double stats, vita+vita/main stat affixes are ofc far more rare but have the chance to make it so much better.


Same thing might be the reason legendary weapons suck ass, they have random magic stat that varies, it's possible, though unlikely, that it can be pure +dmg that would make them insane. Although I think that leg weapons are underpowered and it's a bug/fucked up at development.

All items are listed here, with their possible stats http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/item/ring/#type=legendary


Jay Wilson explained there looking into Legendary Weapons. I am hoping that there looking into fixing them or at least causing less random stats. I feel +20-50% damage should a modifier on the best in slot Legendary. Now I still think rares can beat them but if the base is higher and the highest magical can't touch the legendary I would be more happy with that. Magical shouldn't be greater then any level 60 legendary.
Fruitdealer, DongRaeGu, and Soulkey
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
May 24 2012 00:26 GMT
#309
Rares should be better than legendary items, I don't dispute that, but rares and magical items shouldn't have the potential to be 70% - 100% better than a perfect stat legendary. In my opinion, the rarest legendary items should be better than 80% of the rares you could find, therefore if you find an amazing legendary item it's likely to be your best in slot for quite awhile. As it is now, only some amulets and rings are really amazing compared to their rare counterparts, even after just four or five days.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
May 24 2012 00:30 GMT
#310
Almost all legendary weapons suck simply because they just simply won't get the 300-500 kind of insane elemental bonuses and hence their DPS just is going to be way lower than normal unless you happen to find a +damage, +aspd, +%damage legendary weapon(And I imagine those are worth a bunch)
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
superstartran
Profile Joined March 2010
United States4013 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-24 01:35:26
May 24 2012 01:35 GMT
#311
On May 24 2012 08:10 Catch]22 wrote:
Im still skeptical when people claim Act 2 inferno is IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT WITH PERFECT GEAR like so many seem to try to claim



There was literally one Barb that was able to clear Acts 3 and 4 in Inferno and he had pretty much the most godly gear on the planet right now in terms of tankiness (had 700+ base resists, over 90% DR, had 70k HP) and he had to skip tons of mobs, had to abuse broken AI, among various other things and was still one shot constantly in Acts 3 and 4. Inferno is not designed in a smart way; Blizzard didn't even bother to test the game out in Inferno by their own admission. Even with the most godly gear ever the game is just impossible as certain classes.
antelope591
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada820 Posts
May 24 2012 01:49 GMT
#312
On May 24 2012 09:26 Salv wrote:
Rares should be better than legendary items, I don't dispute that, but rares and magical items shouldn't have the potential to be 70% - 100% better than a perfect stat legendary. In my opinion, the rarest legendary items should be better than 80% of the rares you could find, therefore if you find an amazing legendary item it's likely to be your best in slot for quite awhile. As it is now, only some amulets and rings are really amazing compared to their rare counterparts, even after just four or five days.


Why should rares be better than legendary's? It shouldn't be that way at all -_-. Legendarys should stomp rares. When you got a windforce or grandfather, or later an enigma or botd it was an awesome thing in diablo 2. Getting random rare #2535 is nowhere near as exciting.
Xinder
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2269 Posts
May 24 2012 01:51 GMT
#313
All this talk about how Barbs suck it up in inferno makes me really scared to put time and effort in my barb that's currently not past act 1 of NM yet. Haven't had as much time to play since i got to NM. But it just scares me that I might put in fuck tons of time and effort to reach inferno only to have the game go "oh you picked a barb? TROLOLOL". Dunno...just thoughts from a leveling barb.
"Daaayyyy9, King Pussyfoot of NinnyVille"- Day9 while playing Amnesia
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-24 01:58:54
May 24 2012 01:57 GMT
#314
I don't mind magics/rares being better than Legendaries, they were in D2 as well. However this should only apply to the very best rolled magic/rares and should be insanely rare and even then no where near the scale of better that D3 currently has, 10-20% better is fine, right now many magic/rares are 80-100% better or more even.
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
Mammel
Profile Joined November 2010
Finland189 Posts
May 24 2012 02:09 GMT
#315
On May 24 2012 10:49 antelope591 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 09:26 Salv wrote:
Rares should be better than legendary items, I don't dispute that, but rares and magical items shouldn't have the potential to be 70% - 100% better than a perfect stat legendary. In my opinion, the rarest legendary items should be better than 80% of the rares you could find, therefore if you find an amazing legendary item it's likely to be your best in slot for quite awhile. As it is now, only some amulets and rings are really amazing compared to their rare counterparts, even after just four or five days.


Why should rares be better than legendary's? It shouldn't be that way at all -_-. Legendarys should stomp rares. When you got a windforce or grandfather, or later an enigma or botd it was an awesome thing in diablo 2. Getting random rare #2535 is nowhere near as exciting.

I don't know whats the max +dmg mod in the item, but I've seen anything from <300 to >600 + random dmg. +dmg% is (i think) 25-50%, +IAS=1%-25%. Let's say your wizard, you'll want those 3, int, vita and then possibly int+vita (not sure if all 3 are possible in a weapon at the same time). and ofc you'll want it to be in a staff because they have the highest base dps that wiz can use.

I think you're gonna get quite a few perf eth fools mod+ED% weapons in d2 before you roll one of those. I have no problem with them being the best, and certainly the rarest items in the game. But still, leg weapons are WAYYY too shitty right now.
hkf
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia354 Posts
May 24 2012 02:29 GMT
#316
On May 24 2012 10:49 antelope591 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 09:26 Salv wrote:
Rares should be better than legendary items, I don't dispute that, but rares and magical items shouldn't have the potential to be 70% - 100% better than a perfect stat legendary. In my opinion, the rarest legendary items should be better than 80% of the rares you could find, therefore if you find an amazing legendary item it's likely to be your best in slot for quite awhile. As it is now, only some amulets and rings are really amazing compared to their rare counterparts, even after just four or five days.


Why should rares be better than legendary's? It shouldn't be that way at all -_-. Legendarys should stomp rares. When you got a windforce or grandfather, or later an enigma or botd it was an awesome thing in diablo 2. Getting random rare #2535 is nowhere near as exciting.


p Cruel Colossus Blade of Alcarity (300 ED 40IAS) > p GF.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
May 24 2012 02:36 GMT
#317
On May 24 2012 11:29 hkf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 10:49 antelope591 wrote:
On May 24 2012 09:26 Salv wrote:
Rares should be better than legendary items, I don't dispute that, but rares and magical items shouldn't have the potential to be 70% - 100% better than a perfect stat legendary. In my opinion, the rarest legendary items should be better than 80% of the rares you could find, therefore if you find an amazing legendary item it's likely to be your best in slot for quite awhile. As it is now, only some amulets and rings are really amazing compared to their rare counterparts, even after just four or five days.


Why should rares be better than legendary's? It shouldn't be that way at all -_-. Legendarys should stomp rares. When you got a windforce or grandfather, or later an enigma or botd it was an awesome thing in diablo 2. Getting random rare #2535 is nowhere near as exciting.


p Cruel Colossus Blade of Alcarity (300 ED 40IAS) > p GF.

Didn't beat botd though, and runewords were pretty much legendaries too.
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
May 24 2012 02:38 GMT
#318
yea runewords were pretty gay in that regard lol
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-24 02:43:54
May 24 2012 02:39 GMT
#319
On May 24 2012 07:15 BrauL wrote:
So many people don't understand how to item&skill build their chars. That's the first step. The second is learning how to micro so you don't die. Come on people this is a bw and sc2 forum; the most complex and difficult games out there. You can figure out d3 inferno.


when in act 2 the whole screen is filled with stuff that hits between 10k and 25k chances are something will hit you from time to time. and i wont even talk about actually doing dmg in that situation as a melee char.

On May 24 2012 10:51 Xinder wrote:
All this talk about how Barbs suck it up in inferno makes me really scared to put time and effort in my barb that's currently not past act 1 of NM yet. Haven't had as much time to play since i got to NM. But it just scares me that I might put in fuck tons of time and effort to reach inferno only to have the game go "oh you picked a barb? TROLOLOL". Dunno...just thoughts from a leveling barb.


seems like barb gets ok once you have really good gear.

im currently at 52k hp, 70% armor,220 allres and 10.5k dps and i can barely finish the first act2 quest without dying 10 times.

my sorc and dh buddies with way worse gear are through act2 already and a monk i know passed through act with crap weapon and 25k life.

so if you still got the choice and assuming barbs stay the way they are id suggest going for another class first and tackle your barb when you can afford to equip him well enough to be useful.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
May 24 2012 02:42 GMT
#320
10k 25k? Shit it's more like 40k and 60k
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
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