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On June 09 2012 04:31 p14c wrote:Elemental damage is only added on each attack. The basic weapon damage is the one that get's multiplied by skills and strength. So a weapon with +500 cold damage will do only +500 cold on each attack no matter the skill. The sad part is that when you look at weapon stats the DPS includes elemental damage. People who played diablo 2 already know this 
Yeah +elemental damage on weapons was crap in D2, I just figured they made it count like normal +damage in D3 since they included it in the weapon dps. That's gonna make trying to get a new weapon even more of a pain in the ass if that's true for D3 
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On June 09 2012 03:33 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 02:47 p14c wrote:
People stop buying crappy weapons with elemental damage. Only the basic damage is used for skills bonuses. Always go for weapons with +%damage. If the weapon has sockets always put amethysts for life on hit. Rubies are only helpful at lower levels. I rather have +300-400 life on hit than +34-40 damage. 2h are only for chars with good equipment.
For chars with normal equipment is much better to use 1h+shield(high block chance)+resistance+all passives skills defensive.
Frenzy+sidearm is best skill that can deal damage to both single targets and packs of monsters. WOTB with the double damage rune for elites (burst damage). You can ussually kill at least a champion in the 15sec and you're also immune to stuns/freezes.
Revenge+30% chance rune is a must. Iron skin+life steal rune for shit moments. Leap+300% defense rune or charge+life heal rune for dodging attacks/aoe damage/charges/freezes etc.
All items should have all resists/vitality/strength stats. I recomend strength/vitality around 1:1 ratio. If you have a really good shield you can go for more strength (stormshield with 40% block owns everything).
Resistances to easily farm ACT 1 -500, ACT 2 -800, ACT 3 1k, ACT 4 1k+. Source? This is news to me.
I am kind of farming spider+azmo and managing to get a bunch of stacks for izual every time I decide to play a4 and my resistances are between 720 and 870 and I don't feel that much gimped (other stats are 61kish HP, 10k armor, soe+ss+kimbo+justice lantern). I was dying much easier when I had 50khp and 1100ish resistences.
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Yeah there isn't much a point to go past 75% on a resist. I think that's around 850 or 900. After that the diminishing return is so bad you might as well focus on str/vit etc.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 09 2012 04:31 p14c wrote:Elemental damage is only added on each attack. The basic weapon damage is the one that get's multiplied by skills and strength. So a weapon with +500 cold damage will do only +500 cold on each attack no matter the skill. The sad part is that when you look at weapon stats the DPS includes elemental damage. People who played diablo 2 already know this
Is there a source saying that it functions the exact same as in D2?
EDIT: Actually, I'm fairly certain that skills do multiply the elemental damage. My normal DPS is 10585. When I turn on WotB, it goes up to about 27700. More than half my weapon's damage is from the 283-557 Lightning damage. If that doesn't factor into skill damage, then my post-WotB DPS should only be about 20000, because the Lightning damage wouldn't be multiplied by WotB.
So either WotB functions completely differently from all other skills, or weapon elemental damage is multiplied into skills, unlike in D2.
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I am wondering that myself also. Yango 
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So is elemental dmg factored in or not? lol
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United States47024 Posts
Further testing. I compared my normal autoattack damage to HotA+Smash hits. If weapon elemental damage isn't multiplied, you would expect to see an enormous disparity between the supposed 270% damage of HotA+Smash, and the actual damage dealt by the skill, because the elemental damage portion wouldn't be getting multiplied.
My autoattack hits were ~6k-8k. HotA smash hits were ~16k-20k. Again, more than half my weapon damage is elemental damage. If the elemental damage is not multiplied, HotA should only be hitting for 12k-ish.
So yes, elemental damage IS multiplied by skills.
EDIT: The elemental damage is also definitely multiplied by Strength. I have 1105 Strength, and my weapon does 433-835 damage a hit, with 283-557 of that being Lightning damage. If the Lightning damage weren't multiplied, my auto hits would only do a measly 2k-4k damage.
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Holy fuck. So I just went through A3/A4 inferno. Fucking diablo was a bitch for me. Died 6-7 times to my clones in p2. Died once in p3 to stupidity (caged). I finally beat it though, and I'm terribly undergeared. Took about 25 min to kill. Feels like a huge weight off my sholders.
Stats:
57k hp
12.2k dps
800 all resist
8400 armor
21% melee reduction
1100 LoH
29% block (2800-3700)
Used the following skills:
Frenzy (maniac - not sure why, normally run sidearm)
Leap (iron impact)
Ignore pain (iron hide)
Threatening Shout (falter)
Ground Stomp (Wrenching Slam)
War Cry (Impurity)
I know these skills are fucked up and are no where close to my normal build, but it's the only way I could get past p2 and clones.
Now time for a big long break till the patch.
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How is that terribly undergeared? -.-
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I lol'd at the amount of crappy information in this thread. People who are saying vit is super important for A2 and beyond have no idea what they are talking about. 40k HP is sufficient to take you all the way through inferno if you play well. Mitigation, healing effects, and dps are the keys to clearing inferno. I've cleared inferno (now just solo farming act 3) with 45k HP, 800-900 res all, 26k dps (1h), 1k LoH with less than 1k vit. Fuck vit, it's trash and inflates the price of gear. Life % > vit. I have over 10k armor even with under 1k vit. I've tweaked my barb so muh over the past few days I feel I have a good idea of a well balanced barb for farming without using gimmicky builds.
Also whoever said they are against LoH, I'd like to hear why, thank you.
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On June 09 2012 06:36 BrauL wrote:
I lol'd at the amount of crappy information in this thread. People who are saying vit is super important for A2 and beyond have no idea what they are talking about. 40k HP is sufficient to take you all the way through inferno if you play well. Mitigation, healing effects, and dps are the keys to clearing inferno. I've cleared inferno (now just solo farming act 3) with 45k HP, 800-900 res all, 26k dps (1h), 1k LoH with less than 1k vit. Fuck vit, it's trash and inflates the price of gear. Life % > vit. I have over 10k armor even with under 1k vit. I've tweaked my barb so muh over the past few days I feel I have a good idea of a well balanced barb for farming without using gimmicky builds.
Also whoever said they are against LoH, I'd like to hear why, thank you.
Thank you for some good advice. I feel like Vit isn't the top priority, it helps but not going to keep you from dying.
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On June 09 2012 06:32 skyR wrote:
How is that terribly undergeared? -.-
lol well it sure felt like it! 
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On June 09 2012 05:35 crms wrote:
Yeah there isn't much a point to go past 75% on a resist. I think that's around 850 or 900. After that the diminishing return is so bad you might as well focus on str/vit etc.
????
there is no diminishing return on resistance?
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I think he means relative to getting more health and DPS.
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On June 09 2012 07:08 Slayer91 wrote:
I think he means relative to getting more health and DPS.
I agree with that sentiment. When I was gearing up for Act 2 at one point I had 9000 armor, 900 resists, 44k HP but only 850 strength which was pretty terrible.
I think looking forward to 1.0.3 and beyond we'll find that the 1:1 ratio of str:vit will be popular (this will depend on how much +% life you have of course, but assuming a moderate +10% or so). I also think that +health globe healing will become more valued over time as Barbarians realize how much healing they get from it. The new standard will be to get your offense up in step with your defenses, kill more quickly, and heal more from the resulting health globes.
Life on hit will remain important though, for baseline healing when you can't revenge or heal from health globes.
2 hander and dual wield builds will hopefully become more common, we definitely need more variety in builds (and not just gimmicky 0 resist burst builds).
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Holy. More crappy information. After 700 resist the % reduced is lessened per point. That's why it's not worth it to sacrifice STR for resists past 700-800. It's pretty damn simple guys, dps is all important. If you can't kill anything you can't move on. Think of it this way: the faster you kill something the less damage dealt to you, you could see this as bonus armor or HP - that's why STR is a ton more important than a lot of barbs in this thread seems to think.
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On June 09 2012 07:43 BrauL wrote:
Holy. More crappy information. After 700 resist the % reduced is lessened per point. That's why it's not worth it to sacrifice STR for resists past 700-800. It's pretty damn simple guys, dps is all important. If you can't kill anything you can't move on. Think of it this way: the faster you kill something the less damage dealt to you, you could see this as bonus armor or HP - that's why STR is a ton more important than a lot of barbs in this thread seems to think.
this guy gets it.
to many people are sacrificing strength or other dps modifiers (attack speed/crit) to mass stack vitality and all res. That really isn't good at all and once youre doing act3/4 you'll just die before you kill anything, or you'll eventually kill things at a rate that is so slow that it's mind numbing. Mostly, you just won't kill anything that's actually difficult.
I know im on this 'fuck all tanking, kill it all kick!' but even before I swtiched to this mode, in my 'tank' set I still cared about dps. I had at least 19k dps because I refused to use pieces without strength, and actively sought out nice hybrid items, such a ring of the zodiac, all res, str, vit, as%, and they're cheap.*
 ISCLAIMER*
obviously these are stats you need to worry about late game, if you're still strugging in act1/2 it's likely going to be because of your Resistance, Armor, and HP but just because you need to boost those stats up to get started, don't go overkill thinking they are the end all be all.
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It's like, resistances have no diminishing returns with themselves, but with other things it's different.
Basically it gets harder and harder to double your tankiness, but doubling your DPS or HP is easier, and usually more effective once you're not getting like insta killed.
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On June 09 2012 07:50 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 07:43 BrauL wrote:
Holy. More crappy information. After 700 resist the % reduced is lessened per point. That's why it's not worth it to sacrifice STR for resists past 700-800. It's pretty damn simple guys, dps is all important. If you can't kill anything you can't move on. Think of it this way: the faster you kill something the less damage dealt to you, you could see this as bonus armor or HP - that's why STR is a ton more important than a lot of barbs in this thread seems to think. this guy gets it. to many people are sacrificing strength or other dps modifiers (attack speed/crit) to mass stack vitality and all res. That really isn't good at all and once youre doing act3/4 you'll just die before you kill anything, or you'll eventually kill things at a rate that is so slow that it's mind numbing. Mostly, you just won't kill anything that's actually difficult. I know im on this 'fuck all tanking, kill it all kick!' but even before I swtiched to this mode, in my 'tank' set I still cared about dps. I had at least 19k dps because I refused to use pieces without strength, and actively sought out nice hybrid items, such a ring of the zodiac, all res, str, vit, as%, and they're cheap.
Pretty sure the reason all resist and armor get diminishing returns like that though is each % of it is worth more than the last, so the diminishing returns cancels it out making it basically a static increase in effectiveness.
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The thing is that people ussually think things like resist/armor/etc get less effective because the % reduces is lessened, but it ussually isn't true. As an easy example, going from 0% to 5% reduced damage means you take about the same damage, while going from 95% to 99% reduced damage means you go from taking 5% of the damage taken to only 1%, 5 times less damage, and going from 99% to 100% would mean taking an infinitely less damage. I believe Diablo 3, like Warcraft 3, has no diminishing returns, meaning the same amount of armor/resists/whatever results in the same % of your HP as increased EHP no matter how much you initially have.
Because the %'s are misleading, it's a common mistake people make in these kind of games, quite often in Dota, and also a reason people get picky when they hear it has diminishing returns. It doesn't. Wether you have to consider the ratio of defensive stats to offensive stats, diferent kinds of mitigation or simply increasing the base HP value is another issue.
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EPT
