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On September 14 2012 05:31 Hairy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:19 Steveling wrote:
What's the deal with echoing fury in ww build? Others say it should be MH, others OH, what about it?
Also is it any good? The fear proc is going to be pretty detrimental for ww/sprint build. We don't want mobs running in fear out of our tornado kill-zones.
Well besides that, I've read that +x attacks per second is a different modifier than attack speed %, so it's an added bonus, obviously making tornados spam crits like crazy.
So, that's why I'm asking if there's any truth and usefulness in that weapon.
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On September 14 2012 05:38 Big G wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:30 Hairy wrote:On September 14 2012 05:14 Big G wrote:
Is there anyone who does NOT play sprint-WW? Last 40 pages talks only about that. So sad. - I've tried throwing on a 2H weapon using a variety of builds, but it was nowhere near as ww/sprint.
- I've tried a throwing build, but it was nowhere near as effective as ww/sprint.
- I've tried a DW raw DPS build, but I didnt have the gear requirements for it, and it was nowhere near as effective as ww/sprint.
- I tried a tanking build.... then I fell asleep
There's a reason it's the dominant barb build, and it's because everything else pales in comparison. There's just no contest. I rampage through the game as an unstoppable invincible death machine, with permanent WOTB, barely stopping for trash and murdering elites in a few seconds. If there was another build I could play with that actually was comparable I would use it for the variety, but there just isn't! I guess I'm the only one that finds a self-made build more entertaining. Edit: Echoing Fury's aps bonus AFAIK applies to both weapons, that's the only reason to use it. Fear is terrible though.
I find the efficient loot hunt far more entertaining than an inefficient loot hunt.
:p
If there were builds that were as good and as fast as WW then people would use them. People WANT to use them. But Diablo is all about the loot hunt, why purposefully make your loot finding less efficient than it could be?
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On September 14 2012 05:55 Charger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:38 Big G wrote:On September 14 2012 05:30 Hairy wrote:On September 14 2012 05:14 Big G wrote:
Is there anyone who does NOT play sprint-WW? Last 40 pages talks only about that. So sad. - I've tried throwing on a 2H weapon using a variety of builds, but it was nowhere near as ww/sprint.
- I've tried a throwing build, but it was nowhere near as effective as ww/sprint.
- I've tried a DW raw DPS build, but I didnt have the gear requirements for it, and it was nowhere near as effective as ww/sprint.
- I tried a tanking build.... then I fell asleep
There's a reason it's the dominant barb build, and it's because everything else pales in comparison. There's just no contest. I rampage through the game as an unstoppable invincible death machine, with permanent WOTB, barely stopping for trash and murdering elites in a few seconds. If there was another build I could play with that actually was comparable I would use it for the variety, but there just isn't! I guess I'm the only one that finds a self-made build more entertaining. Edit: Echoing Fury's aps bonus AFAIK applies to both weapons, that's the only reason to use it. Fear is terrible though. I find the efficient loot hunt far more entertaining than an inefficient loot hunt. :p If there were builds that were as good and as fast as WW then people would use them. People WANT to use them. But Diablo is all about the loot hunt, why purposefully make your loot finding less efficient than it could be?
Because changing gear and skills is fun as well.
People whine because of lack of character customization, then the same people use a grand total of one copy-pasted build for months? Makes sense.
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On September 14 2012 05:38 Big G wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:30 Hairy wrote:On September 14 2012 05:14 Big G wrote:
Is there anyone who does NOT play sprint-WW? Last 40 pages talks only about that. So sad. - I've tried throwing on a 2H weapon using a variety of builds, but it was nowhere near as ww/sprint.
- I've tried a throwing build, but it was nowhere near as effective as ww/sprint.
- I've tried a DW raw DPS build, but I didnt have the gear requirements for it, and it was nowhere near as effective as ww/sprint.
- I tried a tanking build.... then I fell asleep
There's a reason it's the dominant barb build, and it's because everything else pales in comparison. There's just no contest. I rampage through the game as an unstoppable invincible death machine, with permanent WOTB, barely stopping for trash and murdering elites in a few seconds. If there was another build I could play with that actually was comparable I would use it for the variety, but there just isn't! I guess I'm the only one that finds a self-made build more entertaining.
That's rather presumptuous of you.
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On September 14 2012 06:06 Big G wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:55 Charger wrote:On September 14 2012 05:38 Big G wrote:On September 14 2012 05:30 Hairy wrote:On September 14 2012 05:14 Big G wrote:
Is there anyone who does NOT play sprint-WW? Last 40 pages talks only about that. So sad. - I've tried throwing on a 2H weapon using a variety of builds, but it was nowhere near as ww/sprint.
- I've tried a throwing build, but it was nowhere near as effective as ww/sprint.
- I've tried a DW raw DPS build, but I didnt have the gear requirements for it, and it was nowhere near as effective as ww/sprint.
- I tried a tanking build.... then I fell asleep
There's a reason it's the dominant barb build, and it's because everything else pales in comparison. There's just no contest. I rampage through the game as an unstoppable invincible death machine, with permanent WOTB, barely stopping for trash and murdering elites in a few seconds. If there was another build I could play with that actually was comparable I would use it for the variety, but there just isn't! I guess I'm the only one that finds a self-made build more entertaining. Edit: Echoing Fury's aps bonus AFAIK applies to both weapons, that's the only reason to use it. Fear is terrible though. I find the efficient loot hunt far more entertaining than an inefficient loot hunt. :p If there were builds that were as good and as fast as WW then people would use them. People WANT to use them. But Diablo is all about the loot hunt, why purposefully make your loot finding less efficient than it could be? Because changing gear and skills is fun as well. People whine because of lack of character customization, then the same people use a grand total of one copy-pasted build for months? Makes sense.
Very few people can spend the necessary time and gold to regear characters completely regularly - at least at any decent level. And, even if they could, why would you spend the time and money to be worse off than you were before? Because that's fun? Not to me it isn't.
We can agree to disagree I guess. My point was really that I would love to have multiple good and comparable options for builds to choose from but I don't think we are there yet with D3. Also, fun is subjective. I have fun playing a good, 'copy-pasted build' for months because the item hunt is what entertains me. Some people may play for the story or to try out unique builds or to play only with items they find or whatever. My fun and your fun might be different, and that's ok.
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On September 14 2012 06:06 Big G wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:55 Charger wrote:On September 14 2012 05:38 Big G wrote:On September 14 2012 05:30 Hairy wrote:On September 14 2012 05:14 Big G wrote:
Is there anyone who does NOT play sprint-WW? Last 40 pages talks only about that. So sad. - I've tried throwing on a 2H weapon using a variety of builds, but it was nowhere near as ww/sprint.
- I've tried a throwing build, but it was nowhere near as effective as ww/sprint.
- I've tried a DW raw DPS build, but I didnt have the gear requirements for it, and it was nowhere near as effective as ww/sprint.
- I tried a tanking build.... then I fell asleep
There's a reason it's the dominant barb build, and it's because everything else pales in comparison. There's just no contest. I rampage through the game as an unstoppable invincible death machine, with permanent WOTB, barely stopping for trash and murdering elites in a few seconds. If there was another build I could play with that actually was comparable I would use it for the variety, but there just isn't! I guess I'm the only one that finds a self-made build more entertaining. Edit: Echoing Fury's aps bonus AFAIK applies to both weapons, that's the only reason to use it. Fear is terrible though. I find the efficient loot hunt far more entertaining than an inefficient loot hunt. :p If there were builds that were as good and as fast as WW then people would use them. People WANT to use them. But Diablo is all about the loot hunt, why purposefully make your loot finding less efficient than it could be? Because changing gear and skills is fun as well. People whine because of lack of character customization, then the same people use a grand total of one copy-pasted build for months? Makes sense.
Real choice only exists when there are viable options to choose from. If one ability, or style, or gearing approach is vastly more effective than others, then that "choice" becomes nothing more than an illusion. In such a situation, you either "choose" to be optimal, or you "choose" to be sub-par. I believe that for barbarians, this is the situation we are in.
In any case, a 'build' is simply a combination of skills that work well together - a conclusion arrived at through experimentation and discussion. Because certain skills complement others particularly well; and as certain skills synergise with some, but not others; generally you end up with a few "builds" that gather up all that synergy into one package as effectively as possible.
You can sit on your high horse and smugly declare that you're using a "self-made" build, but the reality is that if you're not using a cookie-cutter build - or a close variation of one - the build you're using is probably sub-par. Even if you have arrived at your own build completely independently, if you're done sufficient experimentation and iteration you will unavoidably be using a variety of a cookie-cutter build, because they're simply the skills that work together best.
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I'm with Hairy, i've done the 2hander, i've done the throwing barb, i've done tanky, i've done weird hybrids between them, i've done dual wield, hell i held out on doing ww/sprint forever, finally did it with 1.4 release and man... i love it. what's not to love about playing a barb the way it was meant to, the way it was played in d2 that made it super fun. lack of originality? my originality comes from my gearing choices, and which 6th skill I choose to use, but hey, do what's fun for you, that's your prerogative, we're having fun killing shit fast, and finding items.
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hmmm, i dont think the ww spec is fun only because of its efficiency, i also think its fun because dynamically moving attacks like ww are always more fun than stand-still-attacks. (wow, that sentence must win a price for least verbal diversity possible XD")
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Play however you like I say. But don't get all pissy when the majority of people choose to play the most efficient build out there. That's just logic.
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On September 14 2012 05:14 Big G wrote:
Is there anyone who does NOT play sprint-WW? Last 40 pages talks only about that. So sad.
I dont
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Tento-2733/hero/1951071
because I still hate whirlwind 
and I'm having fun with cleave and sprint with marathon up in between every enemy pack its not that far behind whirlwind (I did try whirlwind, goes faster but I don't like it and I wont play something I don't like). The problem with Whirlwind being the best isn't its damage its the fact that you keep wotb up so your runspeed is much higher, making it the best farm build
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On September 14 2012 07:04 Hairy wrote:
Real choice only exists when there are viable options to choose from. If one ability, or style, or gearing approach is vastly more effective than others, then that "choice" becomes nothing more than an illusion. In such a situation, you either "choose" to be optimal, or you "choose" to be sub-par. I believe that for barbarians, this is the situation we are in.
In any case, a 'build' is simply a combination of skills that work well together - a conclusion arrived at through experimentation and discussion. Because certain skills complement others particularly well; and as certain skills synergise with some, but not others; generally you end up with a few "builds" that gather up all that synergy into one package as effectively as possible.
You can sit on your high horse and smugly declare that you're using a "self-made" build, but the reality is that if you're not using a cookie-cutter build - or a close variation of one - the build you're using is probably sub-par. Even if you have arrived at your own build completely independently, if you're done sufficient experimentation and iteration you will unavoidably be using a variety of a cookie-cutter build, because they're simply the skills that work together best.
Wtf are you talking about? High horse? Smugly?
Did I ever said that I consider MY approach superior to anyone else's? I'm not even talking about me in fact, I was questioning the state of the discussion in this (and every other similar) thread since there is nothing like therorycrafting or even just funny builds going on. WW is fun, like someone above you said? That's fine to me, I 100% respect who enjoys the game. But I don't consider a build's superior efficiency a valid argument to deny every other build.
If you consider yourself offended by this, please don't, because that's not my intention.
On September 14 2012 08:48 DODswe4 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:14 Big G wrote:
Is there anyone who does NOT play sprint-WW? Last 40 pages talks only about that. So sad. I dont http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Tento-2733/hero/1951071because I still hate whirlwind and I'm having fun with cleave and sprint with marathon up in between every enemy pack its not that far behind whirlwind (I did try whirlwind, goes faster but I don't like it and I wont play something I don't like). The problem with Whirlwind being the best isn't its damage its the fact that you keep wotb up so your runspeed is much higher, making it the best farm build
You sir are my hero, because you play almost exactly my build. And that's what I would like to talk about.
One thing to note: i use bash instead of cleave and leap instead of ignore pain, because fury generation is essential and bash is wonderful as a single target damage dealer.
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On September 14 2012 08:48 DODswe4 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:14 Big G wrote:
Is there anyone who does NOT play sprint-WW? Last 40 pages talks only about that. So sad. I dont http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Tento-2733/hero/1951071because I still hate whirlwind and I'm having fun with cleave and sprint with marathon up in between every enemy pack its not that far behind whirlwind (I did try whirlwind, goes faster but I don't like it and I wont play something I don't like). The problem with Whirlwind being the best isn't its damage its the fact that you keep wotb up so your runspeed is much higher, making it the best farm build
On September 14 2012 05:14 Big G wrote:You sir are my hero, because you play almost exactly my build. And that's what I would like to talk about. One thing to note: i use bash instead of cleave and leap instead of ignore pain, because fury generation is essential and bash is wonderful as a single target damage dealer.
I use cleave because I run arreat core and keep levels mostly for gear and xp and cleave kills things really really fast, rend is mostly for elites. with the weapons I use (0life on hit) I need ignore pain to get my life back. I used leap when I cleared he game as sword and board and started farming with it as well. But sprint is a lot better for speed and don't really need extra defensive cool downs. When I get more all resist and armor I will switch out war cry with 1offensive skill (thinking battle rage or hammer of the ancient with smash not sure thou). I don't really have a single target damage dealer (again HoA would solve that).
Is bash really that good? 165% weapon damage, Cleave does 140% and with rupture you slaughter big groups of enemies in seconds
edit: fixed quote (not very good thou)
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On September 14 2012 09:44 DODswe4 wrote:
I use cleave because I run arreat core and keep levels mostly for gear and xp and cleave kills things really really fast, rend is mostly for elites. with the weapons I use (0life on hit) I need ignore pain to get my life back. I used leap when I cleared he game as sword and board and started farming with it as well. But sprint is a lot better for speed and don't really need extra defensive cool downs. When I get more all resist and armor I will switch out war cry with 1offensive skill (thinking battle rage or hammer of the ancient with smash not sure thou). I don't really have a single target damage dealer (again HoA would solve that).
Is bash really that good? 165% weapon damage, Cleave does 140% and with rupture you slaughter big groups of enemies in seconds
edit: fixed quote (not very good thou)
Bash - Onslaught is very good, 215% weapon damage total - but that's not the main reason since Cleave with proper use is superior dps-wise. I use it mainly for fury generation, I never run out of fury unless I have to cross an already cleared area, in which case bash is still superior because you can smash 3 barrels and sprint again. In combat, with that much fury I can rend and sprint around big packs.
I meant Leap (iron impact) with Sprint, not in exchange. I guess if you find yourself low on hp ignore pain is good, but even in that case I would give a try to Furious Charge (dreadnought) due to fury generation and mobility. I like Leap a lot though... leap in, rend, kill, sprint away.
I still have to try Threatening Shout in that slot, it has potential in party with other melees.
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On September 14 2012 10:01 Big G wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 09:44 DODswe4 wrote:
I use cleave because I run arreat core and keep levels mostly for gear and xp and cleave kills things really really fast, rend is mostly for elites. with the weapons I use (0life on hit) I need ignore pain to get my life back. I used leap when I cleared he game as sword and board and started farming with it as well. But sprint is a lot better for speed and don't really need extra defensive cool downs. When I get more all resist and armor I will switch out war cry with 1offensive skill (thinking battle rage or hammer of the ancient with smash not sure thou). I don't really have a single target damage dealer (again HoA would solve that).
Is bash really that good? 165% weapon damage, Cleave does 140% and with rupture you slaughter big groups of enemies in seconds
edit: fixed quote (not very good thou) Bash - Onslaught is very good, 215% weapon damage total - but that's not the main reason since Cleave with proper use is superior dps-wise. I use it mainly for fury generation, I never run out of fury unless I have to cross an already cleared area, in which case bash is still superior because you can smash 3 barrels and sprint again. In combat, with that much fury I can rend and sprint around big packs. I meant Leap (iron impact) with Sprint, not in exchange. I guess if you find yourself low on hp ignore pain is good, but even in that case I would give a try to Furious Charge (dreadnought) due to fury generation and mobility. I like Leap a lot though... leap in, rend, kill, sprint away. I still have to try Threatening Shout in that slot, it has potential in party with other melees.
I haven't run into fury problems with cleave either. As i have close to 0 hp regen ignore pain is a must, but charge or leap is better cause of movement and leap gives you a lot of time to deal damage.
Threatening Shout is okay, but I mostly play with a monk friend and conviction aura makes them deal less damage and gives us more damage so we never needed threatening and war cry + sprint to group is awesome, I suppose for group play ignore pain with mob rule is also a very good defensive boost (and I can run away until potion is of cool down in groups so don't need the life steal from ignorance is bliss)
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Im playing with the idea of switching from my DH to barb and sell my DH stuff. Should give me a 100m bankroll to play around with.
How much gold do you need to equip a ww barb for efficient a3 farming?
What legendaries are a must have?
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On September 14 2012 22:22 Warri wrote:
Im playing with the idea of switching from my DH to barb and sell my DH stuff. Should give me a 100m bankroll to play around with.
How much gold do you need to equip a ww barb for efficient a3 farming?
What legendaries are a must have?
for really efficient farming, the only legendary that is a must have in my opinion are lacuni prowlers. you can get some with str and vit, but no ar or cc. shouldnt cost too much then.
other than that, a ww barb is not too expensive if you bring some patience to wait for good deals.
btw i bought a new mainhand today:
![[image loading]](http://www10.pic-upload.de/14.09.12/9auwb7mridol.jpg)
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On September 14 2012 22:22 Warri wrote:
Im playing with the idea of switching from my DH to barb and sell my DH stuff. Should give me a 100m bankroll to play around with.
How much gold do you need to equip a ww barb for efficient a3 farming?
What legendaries are a must have?
The only "must-have" is 24% runspeed I would say - this means you get 12% boots and either Lacuni Prowlers or Tyrael's Might. I would also very much recommend an Andariel's Visage. You will be able to make a very effective barb with that amount of funding behind it.
You will want:
~40k minimum health
~500 minimum resists
~1000 minimum LOH
as much crit% as humanly possible
as much attack speed as possible
Get a fast offhand with huge LOH (and crit damage, ideally) so that you don't need LOH on your mainhand. This lets you buy a monster DPS mainhand, which is important for your overall DPS.
My char is here, if you need something for reference (though my gear will cost more than 100m gold):
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Hairy-1750/hero/2281818
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@Black Gun: How much was your mainhand? The one you can see in my profile I bought last week for 30m.
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On September 14 2012 22:40 Hairy wrote:
@Black Gun: How much was your mainhand? The one you can see in my profile I bought last week for 30m.
35.7M... eu ah is so goddamn expensive.
i think damagewise, mine is slightly better, but yours got 100+ vit, so that you need less vit on your other gear and can thus get slightly more dps there. hard to compare.
but i think if yours cost 30M, then 35.7M is a fair price for mine; and vice versa.
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EPT
