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On May 15 2012 05:46 Zelniq wrote:
ugh youre hurting my brain. why not just have it autochoose skills by default then? if choosing is so hard then dont give them a choice, not even from skills in one category. just let them spam clicks
Taking things to the extreme isn't a good argument. There's obviously a balance in the amount of choice they are giving users. It's like when TL started coming down on people with the silly arguments when SC2 and BW would argue about BW being better because of the mechanical requirements and silly people would bring up something like "well then let people only select one unit at at time!".
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United States7166 Posts
yeah you know actually when i go to a fast food restaurant i actually prefer to pick the one with the fewest menu options in southern california.
In & Out: Hamburger, Cheeseburger, Double Double and that's it.
not 20 options like major chains have, those are confusing. only smart people can handle those
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On May 15 2012 05:37 Zelniq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:31 GogoKodo wrote:On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote:
mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game. Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_LessI could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field. I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options. did you look at the interface though? new players wont notice they have more options.edit; SCREENSHOTS; http://i.imgur.com/1wmaU.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ZjiL9.jpg
The same thing happened with WoW when they started with beginner tooltips. I didn't know what was wrong with my tooltips until I searched on Google and found out I had to disable it.
Everybody who's used Windows has seen those little checkboxes to turn on/off advanced options. I don't know why Blizzard buried it under so many menus you need to stumble upon it somewhere on the Internet to figure it out.
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On May 15 2012 04:32 Zelniq wrote:
For science.
FOR SCIENCE!!!! See you guys online :D
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On May 15 2012 05:52 Zelniq wrote:
yeah you know actually when i go to a fast food restaurant i actually prefer to pick the one with the fewest menu options in southern california.
In & Out: Hamburger, Cheeseburger, Double Double and that's it.
not 20 options like major chains have, those are confusing. only smart people can handle those
The Habit is sooooo much better though ._.
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It was not easy to see that this mode existed during the beta weekend and I only discovered it by playing around in the options. It don't see how having it on as the default would hurt anyone. You still have to use the arrows at the top in order to choose a non-default ability for each hotkey. Noobies would still be looking at the default choices when they first go to each hotkey to assign a power. Even if it was on by default many people would not figure out what it did until they were told about it.
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United States7166 Posts
The Habit is better but there are none close to my area. also it's more expensive right. but man it's good.
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United States7166 Posts
Here's an idea. Elective Mode is on by default. Then the first time a user clicks an arrow to scroll more choices, give a popup warning saying this is for more Advanced Users only, and it is recommended that Beginners choose among the recommended category. Are you sure you want to continue? Yes / No.
/thread
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I like the restaurants near my place in Southern California better. Tasty Garden, for example, has around 200+ items on the menu. Advanced tooltips for me!
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I think that the default option is for players realise that diferent skills have diferent roles. Main attack, secondary attack, defense or others (that depend of the hero you are playing)... This way you won't overlook some skill that might be important to have a 'balanced' hero.
The fact that Blizzard implemented that feature is a sign that they are aware that some players might want to skip for example a Rage skill for the Barbarian and have instead two Tactics skills. They don't want to put it too obviously because it would cause the interface and skill system to lose some of the easy way to use it. But for those who want to dwell into highly customized characters this will probably a got-to feature. And we all know that the players that want this kind of customization will easily get the info in the D3 dedicated community sites.
I think that Blizzard might want to get the tooltip more explicit and the UI interface a little more undestandable but nothing more. It is a feature that only the 'hardcore' players will want to mess around so no need to make it too apparent for the majority that won't care about it.
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On May 15 2012 06:02 Zelniq wrote:
Here's an idea. Elective Mode is on by default. Then the first time a user clicks an arrow to scroll more choices, give a popup warning saying this is for more Advanced Users only, and it is recommended that Beginners choose among the recommended category. if you are so worried.
Fool proof idea and also makes everyone aware of something game breaking important.
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On May 15 2012 06:10 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 06:02 Zelniq wrote:
Here's an idea. Elective Mode is on by default. Then the first time a user clicks an arrow to scroll more choices, give a popup warning saying this is for more Advanced Users only, and it is recommended that Beginners choose among the recommended category. if you are so worried. Fool proof idea and also makes everyone aware of something game breaking important.
Yah, the main problem I have is that this limited mode is on by default, making people who start playing assume you are pidgeon-holed into the categories, only to later realize they've been doing it all wrong and have to rethink ALL their assumptions about skills and character builds. Maybe a little "Select Your Diablo Experience: Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced" thing when first log in like many games have?
The idea about warning when you select different pages seems good too.
It feels like having auto-level up defaulted to on, only to later realize that you can customize your character. While it doens't have the same finality, since you can respec your skills in D3, it does have the same feel of "OMG, I thought this game wouldn't let me customize stuff, but I was wrong."
edit: or maybe inform them at some level that they might want to consider turning elective mode on, as it allows further character customization.
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Wow I didn't even know this. I played the beta and thought it was retarded I was limited to one skill per section
/facepalm
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On May 15 2012 05:44 HorsemasterK wrote:
We wouldn't want them finding new abilities, it might confuse them!
Lol, sad but true. Here is an excerp from an interview with D3's director Jay Wilson:
Did Diablo III have an official design document?
JW: No, not really. I certainly had a PowerPoint that I put together, which described high-level pillars of the project, and was seven things that we considered to be the core of the game.
Do you remember what those were?
JW: Those seven things were: approachable, powerful heroes, highly customizable, great item game, endlessly replayable, strong setting, and cooperative multiplayer.
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Wow, wish I knew about this playing in the beta. xD Can't believe you have to turn this on the options.
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On May 15 2012 06:54 Jindo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:44 HorsemasterK wrote:
We wouldn't want them finding new abilities, it might confuse them! Lol, sad but true. Here is an excerp from an interview with D3's director Jay Wilson: Did Diablo III have an official design document?JW: No, not really. I certainly had a PowerPoint that I put together, which described high-level pillars of the project, and was seven things that we considered to be the core of the game. Do you remember what those were?JW: Those seven things were: approachable, powerful heroes, highly customizable, great item game, endlessly replayable, strong setting, and cooperative multiplayer.
Yeah, certainly for all of us on TL we want as much choice as possible, but I'm sure for millions of people the game will be better with the default settings on. Even I'm overwhelmed by choice sometimes, especially when choices start to blend together, but most of us here have probably been thinking of builds long enough to not want to limit ourselves for no reason.
Also didn't know about the advanced tooltips so thanks for that!
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This entire thread seems a bit odd. People are actually complaining that blizzard is hand holding the casuals too much with this feature and then another group of people are complaining that blizzard should of done more to make it obvious that you can change it. I think its a bit odd because anybody that the feature wouldn't be useful for would of learned about the ability to turn it off via the internet(such as this thread) long before it became a serious issue. The reaction to this just seems to be silly and people creating drama out of nothing.
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On May 15 2012 06:54 Jindo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:44 HorsemasterK wrote:
We wouldn't want them finding new abilities, it might confuse them! Lol, sad but true. Here is an excerp from an interview with D3's director Jay Wilson: Did Diablo III have an official design document?JW: No, not really. I certainly had a PowerPoint that I put together, which described high-level pillars of the project, and was seven things that we considered to be the core of the game. Do you remember what those were?JW: Those seven things were: approachable, powerful heroes, highly customizable, great item game, endlessly replayable, strong setting, and cooperative multiplayer.
Like Jay Wilson said, blizzard makes games for everybody. But the way they make games is so they are able to become 'hardcore' gamers.
Look at Warcarft, Starcraft, and Diablo. They didn't become massive and hardcore games because Blizzard made them difficult to play or to understand. They made them easy but deep. Hard to master. That's why there is so many players playing Blizzard's games. Because they are aproachable. But Blizzard always leaves room for the most persist players to mess around and improve their gaming skills to higher levels.
If you are sad then you shouldn't because new players are very welcome. when I started to play videogames I wasn't an hardcore player( I'm sure neither were you). If nowadays I'm one of them it is because there were games that were so captivating that keep me going back to surpass myself at it. Blizzard games were some of them. Let newcomers start easy and if they want more, oh boy, they will get more. Don't try to inferiorize Blizzard's games only because they make them acessible to everybody.
You want hardcore? It's easy. Just to a quick run in Normal and Nightmare (you should be able to do it since you are harcore) and then enjoy a game for your level.
The important thing is that the option is there. Casual players won't care about it and Harcore players will easily find out about it in forums and community sites. There. EZPZ.
Sorry about the small rant....The lack of D3 is starting to get my nerves....^^
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United States7166 Posts
reminding people again. for justice
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EPT
