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So blizzard makes 2 systems...
1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc..
2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
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I had no idea. Now you've RUINED my builds, but opened my eyes.'
Thanky.
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i think you're wrong in shitting all over this because initially it'll be really nice tfor anyone to have (especially newbies) to learn how the spells are supposed to work together, and for some classes how they spend your resource.
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That's really cool. I was wondering a few days ago if we could only put defensive skills on the same slot and so on.
This brings even more customization to D3.
Thanks for bringing this up, Zelniq!
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On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote:
So blizzard makes 2 systems...
1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc..
2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I agree with this fellow. Start people off with an intuitive simple system and after they play the game for awhile they can choose to dig into some options. Starting people off with a more complicated interface with more numbers can and does turn new people off.
There might be reason to complain if Blizzard didn't give you the option, but they do, so what is the problem?
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This is awesome, I hope it is not removed.
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On May 15 2012 05:22 GogoKodo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote:
So blizzard makes 2 systems...
1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc..
2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I agree with this fellow. Start people off with an intuitive simple system and after they play the game for awhile they can choose to dig into some options. Starting people off with a more complicated interface with more numbers can and does turn new people off. There might be reason to complain if Blizzard didn't give you the option, but they do, so what is the problem?
As long as there is some hint in the game that it exists i would be fine... i didn't even see it playing the beta -.-
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United States7166 Posts
mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game.
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On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote:
So blizzard makes 2 systems...
1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc..
2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I personally like the mode. Since you can turn it off it's far from a dumb feature, it adds more playroom for a larger amount of players and I appreciate that.
I'll leave it on.
Edit:
Quoted because I agree with this guy
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On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote:
mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game.
Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less
I could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field.
I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options.
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On May 15 2012 05:22 GogoKodo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote:
So blizzard makes 2 systems...
1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc..
2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I agree with this fellow. Start people off with an intuitive simple system and after they play the game for awhile they can choose to dig into some options. Starting people off with a more complicated interface with more numbers can and does turn new people off. There might be reason to complain if Blizzard didn't give you the option, but they do, so what is the problem?
People are annoyed that they didn't make the option more clear. Everyone (or most at least) that's ever played an a-rpg will be annoyed by the default settings here and "elective mode" and "advanced tool-tip" isn't exactly good descriptions of what they do (maybe because I'm not a native english speaker). As evident by the beta, people will play this way and be annoyed for a long time before they are clued in and it will certainly not change for such a major launch. Naturally in a few months it won't matter but it's just an annoying thing that blizzard easily could have fixed in multiple ways. Give people an option the first time the start if they want the more noob friendly layout or not, problem solved.
I'm more annoyed by the advanced tool-tip not being on by default, as would anyone that's interested in what your skills and runes actually does.
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United States7166 Posts
On May 15 2012 05:31 GogoKodo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote:
mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game. Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_LessI could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field. I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options.
did you look at the interface though? new players wont notice they have more options.
edit; SCREENSHOTS;
http://i.imgur.com/1wmaU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZjiL9.jpg
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On May 15 2012 05:35 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:22 GogoKodo wrote:On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote:
So blizzard makes 2 systems...
1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc..
2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I agree with this fellow. Start people off with an intuitive simple system and after they play the game for awhile they can choose to dig into some options. Starting people off with a more complicated interface with more numbers can and does turn new people off. There might be reason to complain if Blizzard didn't give you the option, but they do, so what is the problem? People are annoyed that they didn't make the option more clear. Everyone (or most at least) that's ever played an a-rpg will be annoyed by the default settings here and "elective mode" and "advanced tool-tip" isn't exactly good descriptions of what they do (maybe because I'm not a native english speaker). As evident by the beta, people will play this way and be annoyed for a long time before they are clued in and it will certainly not change for such a major launch. Naturally in a few months it won't matter but it's just an annoying thing that blizzard easily could have fixed in multiple ways. Give people an option the first time the start if they want the more noob friendly layout or not, problem solved. I'm more annoyed by the advanced tool-tip as would anyone that interested what your skills and runes actually does.
My reaction to finding out about elective mode is the opposite.
Something like this:
- This game is great. Casting spells, mashing monsters, going about my looting and my questing.
- Oh what's this, elective mode.
- Awesome, now I can mash monsters and quest and loot better.
I don't look back on what I've already enjoyed with the simpler system and say to myself "man that sucked". No it didn't suck, it was fun when I did it and that's what matters to me.
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On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote:
So blizzard makes 2 systems...
1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc..
2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
From my understanding, no one has a problem with this system per se, the issue is the fact that no one really had any clue about it, because Blizzard never mentioned it (people even played through the beta and never realized it). This is the sort of thing that can ruin the gameplay for some, so Blizzard seriously should've been more careful with its implementation in the beta.
But hey, the game hasn't been released yet, so who knows... we might get a nice and detailed splash thingy explaining what this does during actual gameplay.
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On May 15 2012 05:37 Zelniq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:31 GogoKodo wrote:On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote:
mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game. Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_LessI could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field. I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options. did you look at the interface though? new players wont notice they have more options.
I think new players might try clicking arrows. Maybe not all new players, but a good portion.
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On May 15 2012 05:42 GogoKodo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:37 Zelniq wrote:On May 15 2012 05:31 GogoKodo wrote:On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote:
mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game. Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_LessI could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field. I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options. did you look at the interface though? new players wont notice they have more options. I think new players might try clicking arrows. Maybe not all new players, but a good portion.
We wouldn't want them finding new abilities, it might confuse them!
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United States7166 Posts
ugh youre hurting my brain. why not just have it autochoose skills by default then? if choosing is so hard then dont give them a choice, not even from skills in one category. just let them spam clicks
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On May 15 2012 05:31 GogoKodo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote:
mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game. Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_LessI could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field.
I really liked what Malcolm Gladwell had to say on this with his "pasta sauce" story in outliers.
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On May 15 2012 05:44 HorsemasterK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:42 GogoKodo wrote:On May 15 2012 05:37 Zelniq wrote:On May 15 2012 05:31 GogoKodo wrote:On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote:
mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game. Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_LessI could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field. I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options. did you look at the interface though? new players wont notice they have more options. I think new players might try clicking arrows. Maybe not all new players, but a good portion. We wouldn't want them finding new abilities, it might confuse them!
Yes, and?
I understand you're being sarcastic but your sentence is true, minus the snarckiness. People can and do get confused when presented with more options. So by default present the simpler case and then allow the user to open up more options if they choose to at a later time.
I agree that explaining of elective mode could be better with in-game tooltips. Though I haven't played release so that might already be there. Also the game guide online isn't complete so we don't know if the explanation is there or not either.
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On May 15 2012 05:38 GogoKodo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:35 nam nam wrote:On May 15 2012 05:22 GogoKodo wrote:On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote:
So blizzard makes 2 systems...
1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc..
2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I agree with this fellow. Start people off with an intuitive simple system and after they play the game for awhile they can choose to dig into some options. Starting people off with a more complicated interface with more numbers can and does turn new people off. There might be reason to complain if Blizzard didn't give you the option, but they do, so what is the problem? People are annoyed that they didn't make the option more clear. Everyone (or most at least) that's ever played an a-rpg will be annoyed by the default settings here and "elective mode" and "advanced tool-tip" isn't exactly good descriptions of what they do (maybe because I'm not a native english speaker). As evident by the beta, people will play this way and be annoyed for a long time before they are clued in and it will certainly not change for such a major launch. Naturally in a few months it won't matter but it's just an annoying thing that blizzard easily could have fixed in multiple ways. Give people an option the first time the start if they want the more noob friendly layout or not, problem solved. I'm more annoyed by the advanced tool-tip as would anyone that interested what your skills and runes actually does. My reaction to finding out about elective mode is the opposite. Something like this: - This game is great. Casting spells, mashing monsters, going about my looting and my questing. - Oh what's this, elective mode. - Awesome, now I can mash monsters and quest and loot better. I don't look back on what I've already enjoyed with the simpler system and say to myself "man that sucked". No it didn't suck, it was fun when I did it and that's what matters to me.
Ok, your point? That doesn't change anything about the fact that Blizzard have made absolutely no effort to give people the choice or notify them of these settings. Settings that any player that are used to a-rpg's are going to miss. And if you want to score positive and negative reactions to this, you are certainly in the minority.
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