TLDR: Just turn it on there's zero reason not to. Then remember you can now have choose any combination of skills you want, rather than only 1 of each Category. And now your action bar isn't locked yay! I think it's under Options --> Gameplay --> Interface
Edit: It's recommended you turn on Advanced Tooltips as well. For science.
So what is it exactly?
It's probably the dumbest mistake Blizzard's ever done assuming it's still there on release, which afaik it is. And it's not intuitive at all nor is it explained except if you get it in a lucky Tip while loading.
Basically, each class in D3 has a maximum of 6 active skill slots available to them (along with 3 passives).
Each skill belongs to one of 6 categories for each class, like Primary, Secondary, Defensive, etc. The default UI (ELECTIVE OFF) only allows you to have one of each type of skill learned. So only 1 Primary, 1 Defensive, 1 Tactical, 1 Secondary, etc. But actually any char can have any skill setup they want. You can have 3 secondaries and 3 tacticals or whatever you want, but only if you have Elective Mode on. Also it unlocks your action bar, which by default prevented you from being able to change what Mouse 1 / 2 did, or hotkeys 1-4 did. Seriously dumb.
More info here
Thank you for listening to this Public Service Announcement.
FYI I think it means "I elect to not be limited like I'm some sort of moron." mirriam-webster states Elective means - Beneficial to the patient but not necessary for survival. I guess that's true lol
Don't forget to turn on the detailed tooltips as well.
The default tooltips are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS in every way, they are basically a textual description of what the skill does with no numerical information whatsoever.
So ya, the very first thing anyone who isn't DERP should do is turn on elective mode and advanced tooltips.
On May 15 2012 04:35 Zaqwert wrote: Don't forget to turn on the detailed tooltips as well.
The default tooltips are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS in every way, they are basically a textual description of what the skill does with no numerical information whatsoever.
So ya, the very first thing anyone who isn't DERP should do is turn on elective mode and advanced tooltips.
Yeah i hit my head against a wall when I first played the beta. They should both be on by default.
I have no clue why they thought this was even necessary in the first place. Skill descriptions are hardly overwhelming and limiting slots to certain skill sets doesn't seem to help the uninitiated at all, either.
I disagree that elective mode is 'seriously dumb', they stated they added it in because people were somewhat overwhelmed by the choice and weren't sure on what to put where or how to begin to approach skill assignment, as they didn't want people to have to look up guides before playing they went for this option.
It's a good idea, however I do agree there should be some kind of message that informs the player about elective mode / adv tooltips, this is the one serious flaw in their design, they rely on us to figure it out, and sure most of us will / have done but there will still be a lot of people out there, probably for a while who are unaware of elective mode and find it frustrating that they can't change skills around once they've got used to it.
On May 15 2012 04:51 adwodon wrote: I disagree that elective mode is 'seriously dumb', they stated they added it in because people were somewhat overwhelmed by the choice and weren't sure on what to put where or how to begin to approach skill assignment, as they didn't want people to have to look up guides before playing they went for this option.
It's a good idea, however I do agree there should be some kind of message that informs the player about elective mode / adv tooltips, this is the one serious flaw in their design, they rely on us to figure it out, and sure most of us will / have done but there will still be a lot of people out there, probably for a while who are unaware of elective mode and find it frustrating that they can't change skills around once they've got used to it.
yeah but elective mode on is still super friendly to newbies who dont know. why? because it still gives you the same skill choices as elective mode off, you have to know to click the little arrows at the top to change to other categories. see youtube video in OP
Good knowledge. It will make the game so much more customizeable, and will make the experience so much different for everyone, instead of a strictly linear build with beforehand defined skills / abilitys.
On May 15 2012 04:46 Myles wrote: I have no clue why they thought this was even necessary in the first place. Skill descriptions are hardly overwhelming and limiting slots to certain skill sets doesn't seem to help the uninitiated at all, either.
simply cuz they want to make it was easy as possible for newbs, and having one of each skilltypes is probably easier if you don't know what is good
On May 15 2012 04:51 adwodon wrote: I disagree that elective mode is 'seriously dumb', they stated they added it in because people were somewhat overwhelmed by the choice and weren't sure on what to put where or how to begin to approach skill assignment, as they didn't want people to have to look up guides before playing they went for this option.
It's a good idea, however I do agree there should be some kind of message that informs the player about elective mode / adv tooltips, this is the one serious flaw in their design, they rely on us to figure it out, and sure most of us will / have done but there will still be a lot of people out there, probably for a while who are unaware of elective mode and find it frustrating that they can't change skills around once they've got used to it.
yeah but elective mode on is still super friendly to newbies who dont know. why? because it still gives you the same skill choices as elective mode off, you have to know to click the little arrows at the top to change to other categories. see youtube video in OP
You have a good point there, I would've watched that but I'm on a uni computer (IE6, no flash ¬_¬). Got my #160 wristband for the London D3 release, been waiting out here as its round the corner and they said we didn't have to stick around for 5-6 hours!
If it was automatically on and there was a 'restore default' button it would work for everyone. Seems odd they wouldn't change it to something more suitable. I guess they just wanted people to have no choice until they figure it out? That's the only reason I can think, like those people who propose passing an IQ test before you can vote...
Oh My God, this is huge.... This means we can now have both Slow Time and Teleport for the Sorceress, right? This opens so much more possibilities, now idea why they did not specify it right away...
So blizzard makes 2 systems... 1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc.. 2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
i think you're wrong in shitting all over this because initially it'll be really nice tfor anyone to have (especially newbies) to learn how the spells are supposed to work together, and for some classes how they spend your resource.
That's really cool. I was wondering a few days ago if we could only put defensive skills on the same slot and so on. This brings even more customization to D3.
On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote: So blizzard makes 2 systems... 1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc.. 2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I agree with this fellow. Start people off with an intuitive simple system and after they play the game for awhile they can choose to dig into some options. Starting people off with a more complicated interface with more numbers can and does turn new people off.
There might be reason to complain if Blizzard didn't give you the option, but they do, so what is the problem?
On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote: So blizzard makes 2 systems... 1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc.. 2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I agree with this fellow. Start people off with an intuitive simple system and after they play the game for awhile they can choose to dig into some options. Starting people off with a more complicated interface with more numbers can and does turn new people off.
There might be reason to complain if Blizzard didn't give you the option, but they do, so what is the problem?
As long as there is some hint in the game that it exists i would be fine... i didn't even see it playing the beta -.-
On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote: So blizzard makes 2 systems... 1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc.. 2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I personally like the mode. Since you can turn it off it's far from a dumb feature, it adds more playroom for a larger amount of players and I appreciate that.
On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote: mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game.
Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less I could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field.
I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options.
On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote: So blizzard makes 2 systems... 1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc.. 2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I agree with this fellow. Start people off with an intuitive simple system and after they play the game for awhile they can choose to dig into some options. Starting people off with a more complicated interface with more numbers can and does turn new people off.
There might be reason to complain if Blizzard didn't give you the option, but they do, so what is the problem?
People are annoyed that they didn't make the option more clear. Everyone (or most at least) that's ever played an a-rpg will be annoyed by the default settings here and "elective mode" and "advanced tool-tip" isn't exactly good descriptions of what they do (maybe because I'm not a native english speaker). As evident by the beta, people will play this way and be annoyed for a long time before they are clued in and it will certainly not change for such a major launch. Naturally in a few months it won't matter but it's just an annoying thing that blizzard easily could have fixed in multiple ways. Give people an option the first time the start if they want the more noob friendly layout or not, problem solved.
I'm more annoyed by the advanced tool-tip not being on by default, as would anyone that's interested in what your skills and runes actually does.
On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote: mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game.
Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less I could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field.
I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options.
did you look at the interface though? new players wont notice they have more options.
On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote: So blizzard makes 2 systems... 1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc.. 2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I agree with this fellow. Start people off with an intuitive simple system and after they play the game for awhile they can choose to dig into some options. Starting people off with a more complicated interface with more numbers can and does turn new people off.
There might be reason to complain if Blizzard didn't give you the option, but they do, so what is the problem?
People are annoyed that they didn't make the option more clear. Everyone (or most at least) that's ever played an a-rpg will be annoyed by the default settings here and "elective mode" and "advanced tool-tip" isn't exactly good descriptions of what they do (maybe because I'm not a native english speaker). As evident by the beta, people will play this way and be annoyed for a long time before they are clued in and it will certainly not change for such a major launch. Naturally in a few months it won't matter but it's just an annoying thing that blizzard easily could have fixed in multiple ways. Give people an option the first time the start if they want the more noob friendly layout or not, problem solved.
I'm more annoyed by the advanced tool-tip as would anyone that interested what your skills and runes actually does.
My reaction to finding out about elective mode is the opposite. Something like this: - This game is great. Casting spells, mashing monsters, going about my looting and my questing. - Oh what's this, elective mode. - Awesome, now I can mash monsters and quest and loot better.
I don't look back on what I've already enjoyed with the simpler system and say to myself "man that sucked". No it didn't suck, it was fun when I did it and that's what matters to me.
On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote: So blizzard makes 2 systems... 1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc.. 2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
From my understanding, no one has a problem with this system per se, the issue is the fact that no one really had any clue about it, because Blizzard never mentioned it (people even played through the beta and never realized it). This is the sort of thing that can ruin the gameplay for some, so Blizzard seriously should've been more careful with its implementation in the beta.
But hey, the game hasn't been released yet, so who knows... we might get a nice and detailed splash thingy explaining what this does during actual gameplay.
On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote: mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game.
Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less I could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field.
I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options.
did you look at the interface though? new players wont notice they have more options.
I think new players might try clicking arrows. Maybe not all new players, but a good portion.
On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote: mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game.
Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less I could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field.
I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options.
did you look at the interface though? new players wont notice they have more options.
I think new players might try clicking arrows. Maybe not all new players, but a good portion.
We wouldn't want them finding new abilities, it might confuse them!
ugh youre hurting my brain. why not just have it autochoose skills by default then? if choosing is so hard then dont give them a choice, not even from skills in one category. just let them spam clicks
On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote: mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game.
Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less I could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field.
I really liked what Malcolm Gladwell had to say on this with his "pasta sauce" story in outliers.
On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote: mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game.
Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less I could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field.
I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options.
did you look at the interface though? new players wont notice they have more options.
I think new players might try clicking arrows. Maybe not all new players, but a good portion.
We wouldn't want them finding new abilities, it might confuse them!
Yes, and?
I understand you're being sarcastic but your sentence is true, minus the snarckiness. People can and do get confused when presented with more options. So by default present the simpler case and then allow the user to open up more options if they choose to at a later time.
I agree that explaining of elective mode could be better with in-game tooltips. Though I haven't played release so that might already be there. Also the game guide online isn't complete so we don't know if the explanation is there or not either.
On May 15 2012 05:16 Shodanss wrote: So blizzard makes 2 systems... 1) super friendly to people new to game or who do not wish to go in depth over which skill goes where, which is defensive which is agressive etc etc.. 2)one which does what the hardcore people want....
AND PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT IT... Are you serious? What more do you want? Hardcore people WILL find it out, since hardcore people already have searched for optimal builds and more information regarding abilities.
What do you want them to do? make it hardcore only?
And no, elective mode is not super friendly to noobs cause it arranges the skills choices by categories and you switch by arrows...... for someone who has never played rpgs or does not know what each and every ability does is confusing and strange, which alienates him.
I agree with this fellow. Start people off with an intuitive simple system and after they play the game for awhile they can choose to dig into some options. Starting people off with a more complicated interface with more numbers can and does turn new people off.
There might be reason to complain if Blizzard didn't give you the option, but they do, so what is the problem?
People are annoyed that they didn't make the option more clear. Everyone (or most at least) that's ever played an a-rpg will be annoyed by the default settings here and "elective mode" and "advanced tool-tip" isn't exactly good descriptions of what they do (maybe because I'm not a native english speaker). As evident by the beta, people will play this way and be annoyed for a long time before they are clued in and it will certainly not change for such a major launch. Naturally in a few months it won't matter but it's just an annoying thing that blizzard easily could have fixed in multiple ways. Give people an option the first time the start if they want the more noob friendly layout or not, problem solved.
I'm more annoyed by the advanced tool-tip as would anyone that interested what your skills and runes actually does.
My reaction to finding out about elective mode is the opposite. Something like this: - This game is great. Casting spells, mashing monsters, going about my looting and my questing. - Oh what's this, elective mode. - Awesome, now I can mash monsters and quest and loot better.
I don't look back on what I've already enjoyed with the simpler system and say to myself "man that sucked". No it didn't suck, it was fun when I did it and that's what matters to me.
Ok, your point? That doesn't change anything about the fact that Blizzard have made absolutely no effort to give people the choice or notify them of these settings. Settings that any player that are used to a-rpg's are going to miss. And if you want to score positive and negative reactions to this, you are certainly in the minority.
On May 15 2012 05:46 Zelniq wrote: ugh youre hurting my brain. why not just have it autochoose skills by default then? if choosing is so hard then dont give them a choice, not even from skills in one category. just let them spam clicks
Taking things to the extreme isn't a good argument. There's obviously a balance in the amount of choice they are giving users. It's like when TL started coming down on people with the silly arguments when SC2 and BW would argue about BW being better because of the mechanical requirements and silly people would bring up something like "well then let people only select one unit at at time!".
On May 15 2012 05:28 Zelniq wrote: mm afaik elective mode still is the same amount of user-friendly as non elective mode. check video or wait to see in game.
Just having a lot of options is daunting for many people. From a design perspective, presenting the user with too many options can be paralyzing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less I could definitely imagine that Blizzard play tested with people and found that people were put off the game and/or couldn't really make choices when filling skill slots when given a wide open field.
I imagine it's almost like the reason they scrapped the tree system in Diablo 2. People get worried about making the wrong choice when they have so many options. Even in a game like Diablo 3 where you can change your skills at a whim, people will feel like they might be missing out on an experience when there is so much choice. So they will spend an inordinate amount of time swapping skills around when Blizzard would rather have them spend that time fighting monsters. Once a player feels comfortable with the available choices, has experience, and decides to dig deeper then they themselves choose to open up the field of options.
did you look at the interface though? new players wont notice they have more options.
The same thing happened with WoW when they started with beginner tooltips. I didn't know what was wrong with my tooltips until I searched on Google and found out I had to disable it.
Everybody who's used Windows has seen those little checkboxes to turn on/off advanced options. I don't know why Blizzard buried it under so many menus you need to stumble upon it somewhere on the Internet to figure it out.
On May 15 2012 05:52 Zelniq wrote: yeah you know actually when i go to a fast food restaurant i actually prefer to pick the one with the fewest menu options in southern california.
In & Out: Hamburger, Cheeseburger, Double Double and that's it.
not 20 options like major chains have, those are confusing. only smart people can handle those
It was not easy to see that this mode existed during the beta weekend and I only discovered it by playing around in the options. It don't see how having it on as the default would hurt anyone. You still have to use the arrows at the top in order to choose a non-default ability for each hotkey. Noobies would still be looking at the default choices when they first go to each hotkey to assign a power. Even if it was on by default many people would not figure out what it did until they were told about it.
Here's an idea. Elective Mode is on by default. Then the first time a user clicks an arrow to scroll more choices, give a popup warning saying this is for more Advanced Users only, and it is recommended that Beginners choose among the recommended category. Are you sure you want to continue? Yes / No.
I like the restaurants near my place in Southern California better. Tasty Garden, for example, has around 200+ items on the menu. Advanced tooltips for me!
I think that the default option is for players realise that diferent skills have diferent roles. Main attack, secondary attack, defense or others (that depend of the hero you are playing)... This way you won't overlook some skill that might be important to have a 'balanced' hero.
The fact that Blizzard implemented that feature is a sign that they are aware that some players might want to skip for example a Rage skill for the Barbarian and have instead two Tactics skills. They don't want to put it too obviously because it would cause the interface and skill system to lose some of the easy way to use it. But for those who want to dwell into highly customized characters this will probably a got-to feature. And we all know that the players that want this kind of customization will easily get the info in the D3 dedicated community sites.
I think that Blizzard might want to get the tooltip more explicit and the UI interface a little more undestandable but nothing more. It is a feature that only the 'hardcore' players will want to mess around so no need to make it too apparent for the majority that won't care about it.
On May 15 2012 06:02 Zelniq wrote: Here's an idea. Elective Mode is on by default. Then the first time a user clicks an arrow to scroll more choices, give a popup warning saying this is for more Advanced Users only, and it is recommended that Beginners choose among the recommended category. if you are so worried.
Fool proof idea and also makes everyone aware of something game breaking important.
On May 15 2012 06:02 Zelniq wrote: Here's an idea. Elective Mode is on by default. Then the first time a user clicks an arrow to scroll more choices, give a popup warning saying this is for more Advanced Users only, and it is recommended that Beginners choose among the recommended category. if you are so worried.
Fool proof idea and also makes everyone aware of something game breaking important.
Yah, the main problem I have is that this limited mode is on by default, making people who start playing assume you are pidgeon-holed into the categories, only to later realize they've been doing it all wrong and have to rethink ALL their assumptions about skills and character builds. Maybe a little "Select Your Diablo Experience: Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced" thing when first log in like many games have?
The idea about warning when you select different pages seems good too.
It feels like having auto-level up defaulted to on, only to later realize that you can customize your character. While it doens't have the same finality, since you can respec your skills in D3, it does have the same feel of "OMG, I thought this game wouldn't let me customize stuff, but I was wrong."
edit: or maybe inform them at some level that they might want to consider turning elective mode on, as it allows further character customization.
On May 15 2012 05:44 HorsemasterK wrote: We wouldn't want them finding new abilities, it might confuse them!
Lol, sad but true. Here is an excerp from an interview with D3's director Jay Wilson:
Did Diablo III have an official design document?
JW: No, not really. I certainly had a PowerPoint that I put together, which described high-level pillars of the project, and was seven things that we considered to be the core of the game.
Do you remember what those were?
JW: Those seven things were: approachable, powerful heroes, highly customizable, great item game, endlessly replayable, strong setting, and cooperative multiplayer.
On May 15 2012 05:44 HorsemasterK wrote: We wouldn't want them finding new abilities, it might confuse them!
Lol, sad but true. Here is an excerp from an interview with D3's director Jay Wilson:
Did Diablo III have an official design document?
JW: No, not really. I certainly had a PowerPoint that I put together, which described high-level pillars of the project, and was seven things that we considered to be the core of the game.
Do you remember what those were?
JW: Those seven things were: approachable, powerful heroes, highly customizable, great item game, endlessly replayable, strong setting, and cooperative multiplayer.
Yeah, certainly for all of us on TL we want as much choice as possible, but I'm sure for millions of people the game will be better with the default settings on. Even I'm overwhelmed by choice sometimes, especially when choices start to blend together, but most of us here have probably been thinking of builds long enough to not want to limit ourselves for no reason.
Also didn't know about the advanced tooltips so thanks for that!
This entire thread seems a bit odd. People are actually complaining that blizzard is hand holding the casuals too much with this feature and then another group of people are complaining that blizzard should of done more to make it obvious that you can change it. I think its a bit odd because anybody that the feature wouldn't be useful for would of learned about the ability to turn it off via the internet(such as this thread) long before it became a serious issue. The reaction to this just seems to be silly and people creating drama out of nothing.
On May 15 2012 05:44 HorsemasterK wrote: We wouldn't want them finding new abilities, it might confuse them!
Lol, sad but true. Here is an excerp from an interview with D3's director Jay Wilson:
Did Diablo III have an official design document?
JW: No, not really. I certainly had a PowerPoint that I put together, which described high-level pillars of the project, and was seven things that we considered to be the core of the game.
Do you remember what those were?
JW: Those seven things were: approachable, powerful heroes, highly customizable, great item game, endlessly replayable, strong setting, and cooperative multiplayer.
Like Jay Wilson said, blizzard makes games for everybody. But the way they make games is so they are able to become 'hardcore' gamers.
Look at Warcarft, Starcraft, and Diablo. They didn't become massive and hardcore games because Blizzard made them difficult to play or to understand. They made them easy but deep. Hard to master. That's why there is so many players playing Blizzard's games. Because they are aproachable. But Blizzard always leaves room for the most persist players to mess around and improve their gaming skills to higher levels.
If you are sad then you shouldn't because new players are very welcome. when I started to play videogames I wasn't an hardcore player( I'm sure neither were you). If nowadays I'm one of them it is because there were games that were so captivating that keep me going back to surpass myself at it. Blizzard games were some of them. Let newcomers start easy and if they want more, oh boy, they will get more. Don't try to inferiorize Blizzard's games only because they make them acessible to everybody.
You want hardcore? It's easy. Just to a quick run in Normal and Nightmare (you should be able to do it since you are harcore) and then enjoy a game for your level.
The important thing is that the option is there. Casual players won't care about it and Harcore players will easily find out about it in forums and community sites. There. EZPZ.
Sorry about the small rant....The lack of D3 is starting to get my nerves....^^
I had this off for beta although I did figure this out way before this thread. I thought the customization was ridiculously lacking before turning this on and facepalmed after finding out about it.
I did skim through the options but "Elective Mode" doesn't exactly catch ones attention. There should be some kind of in-game announcement for this seriously, as this might even put some people off playing the game.
On May 15 2012 05:52 Zelniq wrote: yeah you know actually when i go to a fast food restaurant i actually prefer to pick the one with the fewest menu options in southern california.
In & Out: Hamburger, Cheeseburger, Double Double and that's it.
not 20 options like major chains have, those are confusing. only smart people can handle those
Well, to be fair In and Out has their "secret" menu items that are not listed up on the board but are orderable. Kind of like hiding your customization options from the casuals.
Oh cmon guys. The game is half a day old and we all know this already now. I don't see the big problem here. With a fanbase of millions, every setting will get checked and posted about, so you'll find out in a jiffy!
On May 15 2012 22:25 dmfg wrote: I turned elective mode on when I started playing my Monk. I'm now level 27 in mid act 3, and I have still only once deviated from the default setup.
The defaults are there for a reason, and that's because it gives you a pretty good mix of skills, which you need.
I stayed original until like.. early act 2. Then I switched it up. Maybe it depends on the the class, but wizard has a TON of options and mixing it up can get you very interested builds.
What I can't understand is why people complain that this option exists. Granted, it'd be kinda nice if they brought your attention more to the option ("loading" tips in installer maybe?), but really, some layman gamer gets it, and can't figure out how to get an attack that doesn't cost mana as his primary, rages, etc.
THE OPTION EXISTS. STOP COMPLAINING BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN OPTION.
On May 15 2012 22:25 dmfg wrote: I turned elective mode on when I started playing my Monk. I'm now level 27 in mid act 3, and I have still only once deviated from the default setup.
The defaults are there for a reason, and that's because it gives you a pretty good mix of skills, which you need.
I stayed original until like.. early act 2. Then I switched it up. Maybe it depends on the the class, but wizard has a TON of options and mixing it up can get you very interested builds.
That's funny, with my Monk I've been using a variation of builds not possible with elective since I got level 8 and started using both breadth of heaven and blinding flash.
I'm glad to hear about this. I've been debating between Path of Exile and Diablo 3 for a while now, and one of my biggest concerns about D3 has been the lack of character customization and build options when compared to PoE. D3 has edges in lots of smaller ways, but the huge disparity in customization and simple character "choice" between the two is incredible. I hope this helps bridge the gap.
I found advanced tooltips (Which was actually available by simply holding Ctrl while mousing over skills anyway), but it's a good thing this thread exists, because I thought Blizzard had intentionally limited the shit out of my skill set and I would have never found Elective Mode. Nor known what the hell it meant.
On May 16 2012 03:42 Audemed wrote: What I can't understand is why people complain that this option exists. Granted, it'd be kinda nice if they brought your attention more to the option ("loading" tips in installer maybe?), but really, some layman gamer gets it, and can't figure out how to get an attack that doesn't cost mana as his primary, rages, etc.
THE OPTION EXISTS. STOP COMPLAINING BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN OPTION.
Oh, I don't know. Maybe because it's hard to find and there's no indication that it exists.
oh i see, without elective mode its just a SUGGESTION - here you have 4 abilities - they are all defensive so use just one from the bunch because you are stronger if you pick one from another bunch
and the way the game was meant to be played is without that kind of limit
As someone else posted there, why not have one of those pop up tips explaining the existence of advanced tool tips and/or elective mode? Instead they just have pop ups for loot in multiplayer and whatnot
I think the best place to put this would be at the start of your first Nightmare game. The categories do give a nice balance of choices and will help the new people to the genre get into the game.
Otherwise you might accidentally click and drag a skill off the action bar and lose those hard-earned Nephalem Valor stacks
Hmm, I was level 50 something before I ever accidentally clicked on my bars, even then it didn't move anything. Not sure how its even possible?
Also as for the tooltips, I actually had to laugh and keep a dude I play D3 with in the dark about these. He was raging on and on about how daft it was he had to go to the Wiki or websites to find out the damage etc of spells... 2 days later I told him about the advanced tooltips. He contained his rage pretty well haha.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.deltaattack.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mega_man_derp.png)
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