|
Ok guys heres the deal
Since the beginning of hell Ive decided to stick to Ball Lightning Elemental Arrow because 1. Animation and sounds are fucking cool, 2. The AoE DPS is fucking insane when it comes to clearing mobs.
I thought Nether Tentacles would be the same so hitting 59 was really awesome for me...until I realized Nether lacked the range Ball Lightning offered,
Im currently farming in act 1 inferno (butcher is easy..helped a couple friends down him) and my build is to go DPS as priority, and everything else as secondary since I dont use gloom and DHs cant tank either way. Since the neph stacks arent letting me change builds on the whim, give me a discussion on which I should stick to - Lightning or Nether
Currently I feel Ball Lightning is super cost efficient and clears out mobs insanely fast.
My build is this http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#bRZXST!aTe!YaaZcZ
I feel this has worked for me immensely as I can easily kite, deal a bunch of damage, abuse terrain/walls so the three traps stack, and a life saving stun+knockback in case shit gets too close.
Main question is - I see people running around with Nether...I tried it but the regen just didnt feel good in inferno when its only healing for couple hundred per tick while mobs are hitting easily 10-20k. I know people use Nether only on boss runs because Bosses are huge and nether ticks multiple times...but same for Ball, and in fact, Ball ticks more times since the contact range for BL's sphere is much greater, allowing more ticks than Nether (or am I horribly wrong)
Discuss...and sorry for poor english :/
Edit: Im also thinking that maybe when my damage is a lot higher (at least 3-4 times higher) the healing from Nether will be much more useful, and since my gear is better, I take less damage so Nether can actually do shit afterwards?
|
I think it's been stated that Lightning's damage takes into consideration that it hits multiple times, so damage per hit is lower. Whereas, Nether Tentacles will do 155% damage every tick.
|
On June 01 2012 04:54 cyberspace wrote:
I think it's been stated that Lightning's damage takes into consideration that it hits multiple times, so damage per hit is lower. Whereas, Nether Tentacles will do 155% damage every tick.
But the range for Lightning is higher, I mean it affects a much larger radius when it passes by enemies compared to Nether, so when it comes to cleaning trash mobs its much more cost efficient
|
On June 01 2012 04:45 superbabosheki wrote:
Meh I can kill most elite packs in act 3/4 without even having to kite just because I have 6 smokescreens.
It really doesn't hurt to have it on your quiver, at least until you can upgrade to a 17%+ aspeed/high dex/crit chance one/elemental dmg one which go for like 10mil if they have all 4 of those stats at reasonably high numbers.
yeah, there is no reason not to have it if you're not sacrificing other stats for it, but like i said, i don't die because i dont have a third smoke screen, i die because i get hit in between the cooldown of ss. however, having more discipline would also allow me to change my rune for it as well, which would make it "easier" and also could turn fights that I would die to normally simply because I have a 30% chance to instantly replenish all my discipline which can instantly change the direction of a fight.
i'm just not going to lose 7.5% crit for 7 discipline because I have adopted a playstyle that doesn't require it to chain ss's together.
but if i had perfect gear, i would have +discipline and it wouldn't be taking away from any of my DPS stats. just a different priority in terms of itemization, but i see the warrants of having +disc
|
On June 01 2012 04:55 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:54 cyberspace wrote:
I think it's been stated that Lightning's damage takes into consideration that it hits multiple times, so damage per hit is lower. Whereas, Nether Tentacles will do 155% damage every tick. But the range for Lightning is higher, I mean it affects a much larger radius when it passes by enemies compared to Nether, so when it comes to cleaning trash mobs its much more cost efficient
positioning can easily account for this. ranged enemies will stop to fire and thus the ones out of range will move in front and melee units are approaching a singular point from different angles so they will naturally line up as well
|
What are some cheap upgrades I can do? I'm sitting at 25k damage without sharpshooter, using a 900 dps crossbow with 1200 dex. On a suggestion from a friend, I picked up +dex +atkspd rings, amulet and gloves and it made a huge difference in damage. I also got a +10 discipline cloak and it helped immensely with survivability. Is there anything else I should look into getting?
|
On June 01 2012 04:58 TooL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:55 padfoota wrote:On June 01 2012 04:54 cyberspace wrote:
I think it's been stated that Lightning's damage takes into consideration that it hits multiple times, so damage per hit is lower. Whereas, Nether Tentacles will do 155% damage every tick. But the range for Lightning is higher, I mean it affects a much larger radius when it passes by enemies compared to Nether, so when it comes to cleaning trash mobs its much more cost efficient positioning can easily account for this. ranged enemies will stop to fire and thus the ones out of range will move in front and melee units are approaching a singular point from different angles so they will naturally line up as well
Thats also quite true too...I guess its still too early on in inferno for me to be busting down doors...I will miss how when I "cast" Ball Lightning enemies BEHIND me get killed
On June 01 2012 04:59 starfries wrote:
What are some cheap upgrades I can do? I'm sitting at 25k damage without sharpshooter, using a 900 dps crossbow with 1200 dex. On a suggestion from a friend, I picked up +dex +atkspd rings, amulet and gloves and it made a huge difference in damage. I also got a +10 discipline cloak and it helped immensely with survivability. Is there anything else I should look into getting?
Since you are popping SS I wouldnt mind getting my crit damage higher, and get dex to over 1500
|
On June 01 2012 04:55 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:54 cyberspace wrote:
I think it's been stated that Lightning's damage takes into consideration that it hits multiple times, so damage per hit is lower. Whereas, Nether Tentacles will do 155% damage every tick. But the range for Lightning is higher, I mean it affects a much larger radius when it passes by enemies compared to Nether, so when it comes to cleaning trash mobs its much more cost efficient
For me, my ball lightning crits were about 25-30k while my nether tentacle crits were 60k+, and I don't usually have a bunch of problems with non-elite trash so far, though I am only in A2. But I will say I haven't experimented that long with ball lightning.
|
On June 01 2012 04:09 superbabosheki wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 03:17 TooL wrote:
am I the only DH that doesn't care for discipline on items? Having +7 discipline makes a huge difference~
It's also really useful if you want to use caltrops to kite while still having enough disc for ss. It helps a lot for something that's say Jailer + mortar + faster movespeed than you.
Ball lightning has some of the advantages of things like spike trap even if the straight dps is lower. It can be used around corners, can be fired off screen with high accuracy, stacks better (slightly slower projectile), clears trash that's with champions without trying, and hits more often vs fast moving creatures. Not all fast moving creatures will bunch up in lines, the snakes from act 2 like to fan out a bit when they approach via invis. Ball lightning will also hit 360 degrees around you when first fired which can be useful if you're getting surrounded by weak monsters and need things to die before ss wears off.
Basically if you have trouble vs fast moving elites/champions that move around (like the act 2 wasps) or have trash nicking you while fighting elites ball lightning is better. If you have trouble vs bosses or having trouble dpsing down elites/champions before running out of disc use nether. Depending on gear, player style, and other skills one of the two is going to be true.
|
i don't really agree with a lot of that post
if i am fighting fast moving targets that move around a lot and then stop to fire bees off, i would rather use hungering arrow and then time my nether tentacle to be in air when they are about to stop to fire another round. in that case i would rather have a faster projectile not increased aoe range since if I am playing and timing perfectly that will only lose me damage because the mobs naturally split up beyond the aoe range of either ability in most instances.
in the case of firing in a 360 degree angle around yourself, i can only see that being helpful against elites that are fast titled and are innately fast, like burrowing leapers or whatever they're called. if i am being surrounded by normal mobs, i would not sit there and smoke screen, i would tumble away and in that case they will line up or change targets because that is a more discipline efficient way of dealing with that situation.
as far as shooting around corners, again, i feel normal mobs aren't really a problem, and i feel that shooting a hungering arrow around a corner is one of the easiest ways to get enemies to all line up trying to get around a corner which will already have 5+ nether tentcles in the air as they round it which will be more effective than lightning if you're line of sighting elites.
i feel both moves pretty much fill the same role and ball lightning is just less effective overall.
|
On June 01 2012 05:33 TooL wrote:
i don't really agree with a lot of that post
if i am fighting fast moving targets that move around a lot and then stop to fire bees off, i would rather use hungering arrow and then time my nether tentacle to be in air when they are about to stop to fire another round. in that case i would rather have a faster projectile not increased aoe range since if I am playing and timing perfectly that will only lose me damage because the mobs naturally split up beyond the aoe range of either ability in most instances.
in the case of firing in a 360 degree angle around yourself, i can only see that being helpful against elites that are fast titled and are innately fast, like burrowing leapers or whatever they're called. if i am being surrounded by normal mobs, i would not sit there and smoke screen, i would tumble away and in that case they will line up or change targets because that is a more discipline efficient way of dealing with that situation.
as far as shooting around corners, again, i feel normal mobs aren't really a problem, and i feel that shooting a hungering arrow around a corner is one of the easiest ways to get enemies to all line up trying to get around a corner which will already have 5+ nether tentcles in the air as they round it which will be more effective than lightning if you're line of sighting elites.
i feel both moves pretty much fill the same role and ball lightning is just less effective overall.
The 360 shot is more of a bonus in certain rare situations like when you fight those shadowy beasts in act 4 (especially the very first boss fight where they spawn in all around you). Now and again I'll get a kill on a mob that's snuck up behind me (like a fallen or spiderling) while firing and it's just a nice little perk, not a reason to take the skill.
Hungering arrow won't always track around corners and isn't AoE, you can line up the tentacles, but then you're not shooting AoE around a corner are you?
I never found waiting for the mobs to stop to be as efficient DPS wise as being able to fire off ball lightning whenever and you can't always predict where/when the mob will stop (doubly so if they're off screen).
Yes if you play perfectly and land every tentacle then maybe it's strictly better (not counting dealing with trash), but that's not an insignificant if. Personally, I'd rather focus on getting a perfect stutter step and good discipline management than lining up nether tentacles against hard to hit targets and so far anything that's not hard to hit isn't hard to take down with hungering arrow.
I also don't use tumble, and I think vault/tumble would shift the balance a bit more towards tentacle filling in your weaknesses, but I much prefer caltrops all around. Likewise a heavy hatred generation build or a build with only 1 hatred dump (I like using multishot with suppression) would also probably favor nether tentacle a bit more. I also think nether doesn't lose as much strength when sharpshooter isn't being used as ball lightning can score a much higher # of hits in the 1s window*. So if you don't use sharpshooter it would also shift the balance to favor nether more.
*ball lightning, beyond just the aoe, will overlap more in terms of where it can hit. It's very common for the front ball to be hitting an approaching enemy with it's body damage while the 2nd ball is performing it's arcing lightning damage so both attacks land at the same time. This is even more pronounced if you move into your shots in which case you can stutter step all of the balls on top of each other up to about 5 with a 2h xbow before getting close to the limit of their range.
|
It's a good thing that there is more than one way that can work otherwise the game would be boring.
|
hungering arrow will almost always track something in a situation where the pure AoE range of lightning ball will hit. and actually, you are firing an AoE around the corner, you're just pulling the mobs with hungering arrow. you don't "wait" - in fact, the mobs are coming towards you and being hit before lightning ball would even arrive.
at no point did i say to stop and wait. the reason you would fire hungering arrow in that situation is because it's more effective DPS wise and i'm honestly not sure how you could misinterpret that. again, if "something" is off screen, i will be firing hungering arrow at it, not a slow moving projectile.
maybe our gear is just too different for me to understand your perspective, but the actual balls of NT are pretty much overlapped on each other, so you're also hitting the same target with it multiple times.
|
On June 01 2012 06:13 TooL wrote:
hungering arrow will almost always track something in a situation where the pure AoE range of lightning ball will hit. and actually, you are firing an AoE around the corner, you're just pulling the mobs with hungering arrow. you don't "wait" - in fact, the mobs are coming towards you and being hit before lightning ball would even arrive.
at no point did i say to stop and wait. the reason you would fire hungering arrow in that situation is because it's more effective DPS wise and i'm honestly not sure how you could misinterpret that. again, if "something" is off screen, i will be firing hungering arrow at it, not a slow moving projectile.
maybe our gear is just too different for me to understand your perspective, but the actual balls of NT are pretty much overlapped on each other, so you're also hitting the same target with it multiple times.
It just sounds like a lot of difference in play style. I like being able to fire ball lightning at off screen champion packs, especially when I get into situations where I need to turn them around eventually which can shift the ordering of the mobs. Caltrops also shifts the mob positioning by immobilizing the front runner and only slowing the rest of the pack. By being able to deal off-screen/wide area AoE I don't have a situation where I've dpsed one mob down 80%, but he doesn't get finished off because the hungering arrows are now hitting other targets. The same logic applies to minion immune packs where I can keep them off screen (or close to it) and still feel confident about hitting the elite (hungering arrow is crap for this, nether isn't obviously).
As for the corner thing, it's really not a big deal one way or the other, but if you fire the hungering around a corner to draw out monsters you're proccing sharpshooter on a single target (most likely) while firing ball lightnings can score you a slew of hits before the buff wears off.
I really in no way shape or form think nether is ever bad or an inferior choice, I just tried both in inferno (act 1 & 2) and feel more effective with ball lightning at the moment.
FWIW my gear is mostly +crit damage, minor amount of attack speed (+26% all together), 10% movespeed, 3% immobilize on hit, and dex.
|
+7 and higher discipline actually makes big difference, because you can profitably start using backup plan/invigoration instead of focused mind
|
Just finished act 3, seems to me there is no point at all in trying to gear survivability beyond +max discipline. Literally everything except those lighting thingies from elites, hit me for over 60k. Don't think you can even survive 2 hits even if you tried. Am I correct in this assumption or is anyone having success with a tanky build? Right now vitality and resists seem only marginally better than nothing.
|
I thought it was +8 needed for an extra SS
|
On June 01 2012 06:36 Crushinator wrote:
Just finished act 3, seems to me there is no point at all in trying to gear survivability beyond +max discipline. Literally everything except those lighting thingies from elites, hit me for over 60k. Don't think you can even survive 2 hits even if you tried. Am I correct in this assumption or is anyone having success with a tanky build? Right now vitality and resists seem only marginally better than nothing.
pretty sure for now vitality is useless for top DH
|
On June 01 2012 04:59 starfries wrote:
What are some cheap upgrades I can do? I'm sitting at 25k damage without sharpshooter, using a 900 dps crossbow with 1200 dex. On a suggestion from a friend, I picked up +dex +atkspd rings, amulet and gloves and it made a huge difference in damage. I also got a +10 discipline cloak and it helped immensely with survivability. Is there anything else I should look into getting?
Your bow should be upgraded asap. You can get a 1k+ dps crossbow for less than a million. I managed to buy a 930ish crossbow with a socket for 400k a while back, that is equally good. Bow damage is everything. Make sure you have attack speed on everything that can have it, crit damage or crit% on the things that cant. A quiver with 7+ max discipline is also very good if you can get it, and +12% movement speed on boots.
|
On June 01 2012 06:34 HQuality wrote:
+7 and higher discipline actually makes big difference, because you can profitably start using backup plan/invigoration instead of focused mind
already addressed this issue multiple times.
as for the other issue, yeah, our situations are quite different so it's not really comparable at this point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
