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Rating Diablo 3 - Page 15

Forum Index > Diablo 3
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dmfg
Profile Joined May 2008
United Kingdom591 Posts
May 02 2012 19:30 GMT
#281
On May 03 2012 04:01 killa_robot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2012 09:12 dmfg wrote:
We only think of things like staffs as "caster items" because Blizzard happened to itemise the uniques that way (and even then they weren't consistent with it - see Ribcracker).

If rares had been the focus in D2 (rather than uniques), there's no reason you couldn't have had casters running around with polearms, giant axes, hammers, etc. Yes staves and wands had a small extra bonus of random +skills, but guess what - so do class-specific items in D3, which are sure to satisfy any "CASTERS MUST USE WANDS" cravings you may have.


The issue I have is the direct relationship between the damage a weapon does and the damage your spell does. I said that quite a few times. A caster simply carrying a weapon for it's +X to spell or resistance or magic find or whatever is fine, because those are the magical effects of that weapon. It's when Blizzard decided that spells would be reliant on the damage that the weapon does that I disagreed.

I could accept spell damage being dependent on the damage of wands/staves, because those are meant for spellcasters, but the damage of swords/clubs/polearms/etc should have no relation to the damage of a magical spell.


Yeah, and again I don't really understand why you think the damage of swords/clubs/polearms/etc should have no relation to the damage of a magical spell (compared to why wand/staff damage would be ok).

The only reasons I can think of are
- it wasn't that way in d2 (which is pretty arbitrary), or
- it looks weird on the character (which is unlikely to happen late game, because the class specific bonuses will make them a little better, without making them mandatory)

If it makes you better, you can think of "enhanced weapon damage" mods as being general "more powerful" mods, much like +all skills was in D2.
ffreakk
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore2155 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 19:46:00
May 02 2012 19:45 GMT
#282
On May 03 2012 04:26 yakitate304 wrote:
I'd rate it somewhere between 2 and 3. At this point I don't think I'm going to buy it, despite having logged hundreds of hours on D1 and D2/LoD.

I HATE how cookie-cutter the characters are due to automatic skill unlocks and the ability to re-spec. I know that in D2 there were optimized ways to allocate skills, but you didn't have to play that way. While I had a few optimized characters, I also had a 3-element Sorc that could rush hell, a hybrid shape/elemental Druid that contributed to ubers, and so on. Overall it just seems like the game is catering to bad players so that nobody feels like they messed up their character by not thinking about what they're doing. It's really unfortunate because it's going to make everyone's character essentially the same.

I think the general art style is a little bit off, though I love some of the flourishes they put in like having enemies crawling up cliffs to get to you.


Sigh.. I guess it's natural for every1 to continually bring issues like this up without knowing that it's been discussed to death many times before in the same thread.

If we are talking any garbage builds, Blizz gave the number of 11 trillion builds / class in Diablo 3.

Just because people all have access to the same (~130-140) skills, doesn't mean that they will make the same selection of 6 active skills and 3 passives.

In fact, the current system is very much similar to Guild Wars, which allows free respec, and access to all skills (albeit some needed to be found.. not many though).

Bah.. I typed it out again (though much shorter :3).. But not like the next guy will bother to read before he complains T_T
Look. Only Forward. See. Only Victory.
m00nchile
Profile Joined July 2010
Slovenia240 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 20:20:24
May 02 2012 20:19 GMT
#283
On May 03 2012 04:45 ffreakk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 04:26 yakitate304 wrote:
I'd rate it somewhere between 2 and 3. At this point I don't think I'm going to buy it, despite having logged hundreds of hours on D1 and D2/LoD.

I HATE how cookie-cutter the characters are due to automatic skill unlocks and the ability to re-spec. I know that in D2 there were optimized ways to allocate skills, but you didn't have to play that way. While I had a few optimized characters, I also had a 3-element Sorc that could rush hell, a hybrid shape/elemental Druid that contributed to ubers, and so on. Overall it just seems like the game is catering to bad players so that nobody feels like they messed up their character by not thinking about what they're doing. It's really unfortunate because it's going to make everyone's character essentially the same.

I think the general art style is a little bit off, though I love some of the flourishes they put in like having enemies crawling up cliffs to get to you.


Sigh.. I guess it's natural for every1 to continually bring issues like this up without knowing that it's been discussed to death many times before in the same thread.

If we are talking any garbage builds, Blizz gave the number of 11 trillion builds / class in Diablo 3.

Just because people all have access to the same (~130-140) skills, doesn't mean that they will make the same selection of 6 active skills and 3 passives.

In fact, the current system is very much similar to Guild Wars, which allows free respec, and access to all skills (albeit some needed to be found.. not many though).

Bah.. I typed it out again (though much shorter :3).. But not like the next guy will bother to read before he complains T_T

Also, people see Diablo 2 through rose tinted glasses. Don't get me wrong, I played it a lot and I love the game, but some of the statements being thrown around here are just plain false. Every class had let's say 2 builds that were totally viable (with at least mediocre equips). Other stuff people are talking about are wacky, off the wall builds that only worked with insane gear (dual-dream pally or sorc for example), or builds where you intentionally gimp yourself to be "different". And yes, rerolling toons was "fun" indeed.
EDIT: this is more replying to the spoilered quote, and agreeing with the visible post, if that makes any sense
The above post was made by a noob. Take it as such.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 20:33:43
May 02 2012 20:28 GMT
#284
On May 02 2012 01:14 Icemind wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2012 19:01 ffreakk wrote:
On May 01 2012 17:27 killa_robot wrote:
On April 24 2012 00:35 zJayy962 wrote:
On April 24 2012 00:02 c0ldfusion wrote:
On April 23 2012 23:52 fighter2_40 wrote:
On April 23 2012 19:31 Ace1123 wrote:
5/5 For Me. it is really fun and i Like how the diablo feel was preserved. The graphics are also good and of course the new changes are awesome. I just hope there will be more classes in the future -_-


3/5.

really? i felt the exact opposite. i felt like i was playing a tweeked dragonage/runescape game for 12 year olds. Where is the darkness/ raw feel of diablo 2? There is too much lighting, too little blood, and the items look like shit in the inventory. Diablo 2 from like a decade ago had better inventory graphics. It's retarded.

Also, people are saying that the game will be good because it's harder later on, but Is it going to be in the way that EVERYTHING is dependent on items (which blizzard wants to monopolize on) or because you'll need to plan out your character build? (shitty hdins/well planned casters could do well even w/ poor mans gear in d2). My guess is the former since every character will be exactly the same in that they are not specialized by skill trees. The only defining factor is your passives and your items.

I'm only hoping they fix these issues before destroying my childhood.


Agreed.
I wish I had read your post before posting in the other thread.

That's the real problem of the current skill system - end game will be 100% item dependent.

No build commitment means that either everyone will be viable in the endgame or only those with elite gear will be. I'm guessing with so much emphasis placed on things like crafting and RMAH, it'll be the latter.


Just curious, did you guys play and enjoy diablo 2?

If you wanted to clear content alone, every character/build was extremely gear dependent. Hammerdins are probably the only exception but it'd be pretty hard to solo any boss as a Hammerdin in Hell with shitty gear which is what you needed to do to get gear in the first place.


Just because you couldn't solo hell bosses naked that doesn't mean gear was extremely important,at least not for casters. I remember several times dying in hell and being able to kill several monsters using magic without my gear on just to reach my body. In D3, you are completely powerless without gear. Even magic relies solely on your weapon damage to determine how much damage you'll do. If you have a shitty weapon(or none at all), then it doesn't matter if you're using your end game spells or early game spells, you'll do shit all for damage either way.

Personally I don't think I'll get the game anymore, or at the very least I'm going to wait until a few weeks after it's release to make my final decision. I was able to play in the open beta weekend and it just felt....aimless.

I mean, I won't praise the D2 skill system as being awesome, but at the very least it gave you something to look forward to with each level. Each level you either gained a new skill, or you improved an old one. In D3, you get a predetermined skill or rune-skill. Often times I would level up in the beta, look at what it gave me, and be like.....meh, I don't want that, and just ignore the new skill. I just didn't feel excited or even happy like when I leveled up in D2. Not too mention the fact that due to you always getting the same skills, there's no need for you two make a second character of the same class.

There's also the stat allocation. Granted, I don't really care that they took that away too much, but at the very least my level 9 wizard shouldn't have identical health to my level 9 barbarian. It's just odd that each character gets the same vitality; two points every level, and 10 health per point, for every class.

I played the demon hunter, barb, and wizard for the beta. Demon hunter I had fun with, and felt was pretty strong. Wizard was pretty meh, and I didn't like the barb (died too often with him). Then again I rarely like melee characters.

Finally there's the complete dependency on equipment. I enjoyed the fact that in D2 I could get along fine as a caster without a decent weapon. It made sense, after all casters use magic, not weapons, to hurt their enemies. But in D3 you need a good weapon, otherwise your magic is useless. Furthermore it can be any weapon, which just feels weird. Why would my wizard carrying a club make an ice beam that does more damage than her having no weapon? What would the amount of damage that club is supposed to do when you bash someone with it have to do with the amount of damage that your ice beam does?

Also a bit disappointed that resistances seem to be taking a backseat now. You can only see them by opening up that advanced tab, and with blizzard wanting to make as many builds as possible work, I think we won't be seeing many creatures be completely resistant to certain types of magic, and we won't be needing resistances like we needed previously. Though this is mainly speculation as it was pretty early in the game.

Game does look good, and the production value of it is clearly high. I just don't think I would enjoy it.


Hmm..

You said you died too many times with a Barb in Beta. I take it you are a casual player then, and won't go in-depth into the more subtle differences.

What skill did you improve and/or look forward to from level 1 to 23 when you played Lightning Fury Amazon again?
lvl 1-29 for Whirlwind Barb?
lvl 1-29 Fury Druid?
the list could go on.

See, with the new system, you get a new Skill every level (which is more than you can say for Diablo 2). Now you may or may not choose to use it, but the option is there. And you say it as if it was better in Diablo 2: "w00t level 6, now what skills did i get? Double Swing, Taunt?.. meh, back to basic attacks " (and let's not forget that the next time you get something new is lvl 12)

The new system improves our strength with your gear. And what's difficult to understand about how your magical weapons empower the skills that you use?

Most of your concern (how you cant do dmg w/o items, etc) seem to basically converge to 1 point: "This game is different from Diablo 2", and yes it is. However, you don't see to point out how those differences are bad.

In Diablo 3, more than just your skills, more gears define your build (especially at higher levels). So I believe that point is rather moot, about how one need only switch skills and he has a new character. If you switch gears too, then it's about the same for every game (in Diablo 2, you can switch your skills in 10 minutes, in the past, it used to take ~3 hours).

And lol at the guy you quoted. Hammerdin the only class to be able to clear Hell without good gear? Evidently one of those guys who reads a few forums posts on the internet, seeing "Hammerdin OP" here and there, and proceed to talk like a master of the game. For the record, Zookeeper Nec can clear Hell naked, Trapsin, most Sorcs, Tesladin, Fireclaw Bear, and many more classes can clear Hell just as effectively, if not even more so than Hammerdin.


Actually he mostly does point out why they are bad, and i have to agree with him.
I want my games to offer me as many options as possible be they pointless or not. That includes stat allocation (even if it all ends up in vit ... or well you know we could just make the other stats have more use) and talent trees with synergies.(And please dont argue that the current system allows for as much diversity, repeating it simply wont make it true)
Yes D3 is different but that is not why i dont like it. I dont like it because it takes away options i had before instead of improving upon them.
I dont like it because in the end it will pretty much boil down the entire equipment to a single same stat for all classes (which is weapon damage).
I dont like it because i want my fingers to race over more than just a handfull of hotkeys to get the most out of my char.
And i dont like it because i will never be able to get a group of friends together for a completely naked hardcore run through all difficulties like in D2 (everyone who never tried that should really give it a taste)
That i will only be able to play it with a running connection doesnt help either, even though thats by far not the most important point.
That D3 will ever be truely difficult is something i still doubt as well, although i admit i cant know that yet for certain. It just a feeling iam having from reading what blizzard tells us.



http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455085?page=1

This explains, quite thoroughly, how you are pretty much dead wrong. There is just as much customization (and almost definitely far more) in D3 than there is in D2. It's just in different places.

Also, for those of you who are so short-sighted and/or biased that you are saying the game is too easy...



If you're really lazy, just watch from about 2.20. The main point - D2 is pathetically easy throughout the entirety of normal, not even just the first hour or so. Those you going on and on about how hard D2 was, well, you're just straight up wrong.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
MrSexington
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1768 Posts
May 03 2012 10:47 GMT
#285
Looking forward to Diablo 3.

It'll be the first game I've bought since Starcraft 2.

I hope it runs on my laptop.

>_<
Dralin
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany22 Posts
May 06 2012 14:12 GMT
#286
i will rate diablo 3 a 2/10 in case the ending involves switches and/or colors
zJayy962
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1363 Posts
May 06 2012 20:50 GMT
#287
On May 06 2012 23:12 Dralin wrote:
i will rate diablo 3 a 2/10 in case the ending involves switches and/or colors


This post is incomprehensible. What are you actually sayin?...
DjRetro
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Chile309 Posts
May 06 2012 20:53 GMT
#288
So far i would rate it 9/10. The beta was too short to see more things in action and the game guide on battle.net forums isn't complete yet either. Can't wait to play D3... 9 days remaining guys!!!
SpaceSynth-ItaloDisco-HiNRG http://www.radiostaddenhaag.com/
syth99
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States59 Posts
May 06 2012 20:58 GMT
#289
On May 07 2012 05:50 zJayy962 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2012 23:12 Dralin wrote:
i will rate diablo 3 a 2/10 in case the ending involves switches and/or colors


This post is incomprehensible. What are you actually sayin?...

He is trying to make a mass effect 3 joke.
parkin
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
1080 Posts
May 06 2012 21:32 GMT
#290
Why do the OP put words in the poll voters mouths with the parenthesis? What if someone wants to vote a 2 but not because of bnet 0.2? That kind of stuff is stupid.
mostly harmless
zJayy962
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1363 Posts
May 06 2012 21:41 GMT
#291
On May 07 2012 06:32 parkin wrote:
Why do the OP put words in the poll voters mouths with the parenthesis? What if someone wants to vote a 2 but not because of bnet 0.2? That kind of stuff is stupid.


Notice it says "i.e" as in for example. The parentheses are just a benchmark for people to vote instead of an arbitrary 1-5 stars.
winthrop
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Hong Kong956 Posts
May 15 2012 19:27 GMT
#292
i would like it coming 'soon'
bn sucks atm
Incredible Miracle
squanzo
Profile Joined May 2011
68 Posts
May 15 2012 21:19 GMT
#293
On May 07 2012 05:58 syth99 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2012 05:50 zJayy962 wrote:
On May 06 2012 23:12 Dralin wrote:
i will rate diablo 3 a 2/10 in case the ending involves switches and/or colors


This post is incomprehensible. What are you actually sayin?...

He is trying to make a mass effect 3 joke.



Yeah. Too bad anyone that actually feels they're justified to play over 80 hours of a game, fall in love with the series, and then complain that the developers are lazy, incoherent, and unaware of their own world they created by the end is just asinine. ME3 was amazing and the ending was more effective than anyone could have imagined. I'd say they knew what they were doing.
Wrath 2.1
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany880 Posts
May 15 2012 21:59 GMT
#294
5*

game of the year.
game of the decade.


You should have seen this coming
The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.
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