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On September 21 2011 20:36 NeoLearner wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 20:26 VoirDire wrote:On September 21 2011 19:48 NeoLearner wrote:On September 21 2011 19:31 VoirDire wrote:
With monk and the barbarian, there's a balance between fast and slow weapons of equal dps: where fast weapons generate resources (rage/spirit) faster due to more skills being used per time, slow weapons do more damage per spent resource.
Demon hunter on the other hand, has no resource generating skill as far as I can see. Instead their resource (hatred) regenerate over time. Wouldn't it be pointless with a fast shooting weapon for a demon hunter as that would only drain their resource faster without increasing the damage output? Am I missing something? It's the same trade off in D2. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies. If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage. It's the same trade off in D2.In d2, basically everyone had mana steal on their weapons so the regen vs spending wasn't an issue. You could basically spam the skill of your choice as much as you wanted with enough mana steal. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies.True, but that would make the demon hunter very weapon dependent If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it.Doesn't apply. The DH has no skills which add flat weapon damage. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies.
True. But on the other hand since heavier hitting weapons do more damage on the initial hit, they will be ahead in the damage curve. DPS doesn't factor in that the initial hit has no delay. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage.This is true, but blizzard usually try to balance that by making the modifiers of 2h weapons more potent. My point still remains. If the DH regens 10 per second and wishes to use multi shot (30 hatred) as their main skill. They will only be able to sustain 3.33 shots per second, regardless of weapon speed. Sorry, I thought we were brainstorming on whether you might have missed something. I wasn't making a point at all. The overkilling still stands, DPS is just the damage you will do per second when hitting a wall of infinite health points. Example: Your big 2 handed weapon does 30 damage in 1.5 seconds (DPS = 20). Your 1 handed 1 does 10 damage in 1 second (DPS = 10). There are 10 enemies with 10 health each. Both weapons need 10 hits, but the one handed weapon will do it in 10 seconds while the 2 handed needs 15. If you check the DPS over the complete group, DPS of the one handed weapon is higher. You are completely right about the hatred cost though, a faster hitting weapon will deplete it's hatred faster. I presume that's one of the points they will be changing when they talked about reordening the Demon Hunter's skills a bit?
I'm sorry too, good sir. I misunderstood you. I think your presumption about blizz reordering DH skills is correct too. I just hope it's enough to balance the use of fast/slow weapons of the class.
Your point about overkilling indeed remains. But so does the point about hard hitting weapons being a few steps ahead in the damage over time graph. They counter-balance each other.
In your example, you are indeed correct that potential damage will be wasted in overkill. But let me make another example in which a little more sturdy monster requires between 3 and10 hits to kill depending on weapon type.
+ Show Spoiler +
Lets say that our monster has 100 hp and we have 2 weapons with the same DPS: One faster but lighter hitting weapon (Fast) that does 10 damage and hits once every second, and one slower but heavier hitting weapon (Slow) that does 40 damage and hits every 4th second. Both weapons have the raw DPS of 10 (damage / attack delay in seconds = 10 damage per second).
But a weapon with x dps doesn't necessarily kill a monster with t*x hp in t seconds. This is because we get the first hit in every fight "for free" before weapon cool down and dps calculation begins.
If we were to draw a graph with "HP left on monster on one axis" and "time" on the other with our previously defined Fast and Slow weapons, it will show that the slow weapon will kill the monster in less time, even considering overkill.
Time: x seconds since fight begun.
Monster HP left with fast weapon in time(x)
Monster HP left with slow weapon in time(x)
Time: 0 seconds.
Fast: 90hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 1 seconds.
Fast: 80hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 2 seconds.
Fast: 70hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 3 seconds.
Fast: 60hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 4 seconds.
Fast: 50hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 5 seconds.
Fast: 40hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 6 seconds.
Fast: 30hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 7 seconds.
Fast: 20hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 8 seconds.
Fast: 10hp left.
Slow: 0hp left (20 damage wasted in overkill)
Time: 9 seconds.
Fast: 0hp left.
Slow: still 0hp left
The "true" dps is something like:
Monster total HP / ( [hits required to kill monster-1] * [weapon attack delay] )
For Fast, it takes 9 seconds to kill a monster with 100 hp, making the true "dps" 11.11
100 / ((10-1)*1) = 11.11 dps
For Slow, it takes 8 seconds to kill a monster with 100 hp, making the "true" dps 12.5.
100 / (3-1)*4 = 12.5 dps.
There are off course situations where the initial hit advantage doesn't doesn't compensate for the damage lost in overkill. But I would chose a slower, heavier hitting weapon over a faster weapon with the same DPS in most situations due to the fact that every time you take a break in your fight longer than the attack delay (for moving, using other skills, fleeing etc) you gain the initial hit advantage once more.
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On September 21 2011 19:48 NeoLearner wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 19:31 VoirDire wrote:
With monk and the barbarian, there's a balance between fast and slow weapons of equal dps: where fast weapons generate resources (rage/spirit) faster due to more skills being used per time, slow weapons do more damage per spent resource.
Demon hunter on the other hand, has no resource generating skill as far as I can see. Instead their resource (hatred) regenerate over time. Wouldn't it be pointless with a fast shooting weapon for a demon hunter as that would only drain their resource faster without increasing the damage output? Am I missing something? It's the same trade off in D2. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies. If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage.
Keep in mind this isn't Blizzard North anymore. Procs were changed in WoW so that the % chance scales with weapon speed. They may or may not have done the same with Diablo 3 to balance out faster vs slower weapons.
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i dont find the quest where you must hold off the monster hordes for 2 min quest
where is it ?
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On September 22 2011 21:11 perser84 wrote:
i dont find the quest where you must hold off the monster hordes for 2 min quest
where is it ?
The event is called "The Jar of Souls".
It seems to be a random event, so it's not in every playthrough. So I would suggest to start a new one and look for it again. You should find it in one of the defiled crypts in the cemetery.
Oketh @ Blizzard Forums:
Random event in one of the three crypts. Run some Shattered Crowns and it'll pop if you do full clears.
But I don't know what that means.
EDIT: Changed "somerandomguy"s name to his real name.
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On September 22 2011 04:29 VoirDire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 20:36 NeoLearner wrote:On September 21 2011 20:26 VoirDire wrote:On September 21 2011 19:48 NeoLearner wrote:On September 21 2011 19:31 VoirDire wrote:
With monk and the barbarian, there's a balance between fast and slow weapons of equal dps: where fast weapons generate resources (rage/spirit) faster due to more skills being used per time, slow weapons do more damage per spent resource.
Demon hunter on the other hand, has no resource generating skill as far as I can see. Instead their resource (hatred) regenerate over time. Wouldn't it be pointless with a fast shooting weapon for a demon hunter as that would only drain their resource faster without increasing the damage output? Am I missing something? It's the same trade off in D2. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies. If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage. It's the same trade off in D2.In d2, basically everyone had mana steal on their weapons so the regen vs spending wasn't an issue. You could basically spam the skill of your choice as much as you wanted with enough mana steal. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies.True, but that would make the demon hunter very weapon dependent If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it.Doesn't apply. The DH has no skills which add flat weapon damage. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies.
True. But on the other hand since heavier hitting weapons do more damage on the initial hit, they will be ahead in the damage curve. DPS doesn't factor in that the initial hit has no delay. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage.This is true, but blizzard usually try to balance that by making the modifiers of 2h weapons more potent. My point still remains. If the DH regens 10 per second and wishes to use multi shot (30 hatred) as their main skill. They will only be able to sustain 3.33 shots per second, regardless of weapon speed. Sorry, I thought we were brainstorming on whether you might have missed something. I wasn't making a point at all. The overkilling still stands, DPS is just the damage you will do per second when hitting a wall of infinite health points. Example: Your big 2 handed weapon does 30 damage in 1.5 seconds (DPS = 20). Your 1 handed 1 does 10 damage in 1 second (DPS = 10). There are 10 enemies with 10 health each. Both weapons need 10 hits, but the one handed weapon will do it in 10 seconds while the 2 handed needs 15. If you check the DPS over the complete group, DPS of the one handed weapon is higher. You are completely right about the hatred cost though, a faster hitting weapon will deplete it's hatred faster. I presume that's one of the points they will be changing when they talked about reordening the Demon Hunter's skills a bit? I'm sorry too, good sir. I misunderstood you. I think your presumption about blizz reordering DH skills is correct too. I just hope it's enough to balance the use of fast/slow weapons of the class. Your point about overkilling indeed remains. But so does the point about hard hitting weapons being a few steps ahead in the damage over time graph. They counter-balance each other. In your example, you are indeed correct that potential damage will be wasted in overkill. But let me make another example in which a little more sturdy monster requires between 3 and10 hits to kill depending on weapon type. + Show Spoiler +
Lets say that our monster has 100 hp and we have 2 weapons with the same DPS: One faster but lighter hitting weapon (Fast) that does 10 damage and hits once every second, and one slower but heavier hitting weapon (Slow) that does 40 damage and hits every 4th second. Both weapons have the raw DPS of 10 (damage / attack delay in seconds = 10 damage per second).
But a weapon with x dps doesn't necessarily kill a monster with t*x hp in t seconds. This is because we get the first hit in every fight "for free" before weapon cool down and dps calculation begins.
If we were to draw a graph with "HP left on monster on one axis" and "time" on the other with our previously defined Fast and Slow weapons, it will show that the slow weapon will kill the monster in less time, even considering overkill.
Time: x seconds since fight begun.
Monster HP left with fast weapon in time(x)
Monster HP left with slow weapon in time(x)
Time: 0 seconds.
Fast: 90hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 1 seconds.
Fast: 80hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 2 seconds.
Fast: 70hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 3 seconds.
Fast: 60hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 4 seconds.
Fast: 50hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 5 seconds.
Fast: 40hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 6 seconds.
Fast: 30hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 7 seconds.
Fast: 20hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 8 seconds.
Fast: 10hp left.
Slow: 0hp left (20 damage wasted in overkill)
Time: 9 seconds.
Fast: 0hp left.
Slow: still 0hp left
The "true" dps is something like:
Monster total HP / ( [hits required to kill monster-1] * [weapon attack delay] )
For Fast, it takes 9 seconds to kill a monster with 100 hp, making the true "dps" 11.11
100 / ((10-1)*1) = 11.11 dps
For Slow, it takes 8 seconds to kill a monster with 100 hp, making the "true" dps 12.5.
100 / (3-1)*4 = 12.5 dps.
There are off course situations where the initial hit advantage doesn't doesn't compensate for the damage lost in overkill. But I would chose a slower, heavier hitting weapon over a faster weapon with the same DPS in most situations due to the fact that every time you take a break in your fight longer than the attack delay (for moving, using other skills, fleeing etc) you gain the initial hit advantage once more.
Your calculation is right, also at second 9 while the faster weapon killed the first target you already would have damaged the next target with the slower weapon.
Did I understand it correctly that skills in D3 have a "cooldown" that is tied to your weapon speed? So the Barbarian can use cleave as many times per second as the attack speed of his mainhand weapon allows him to do normal attacks? And the WD and Wizard have a casting speed spell? Or is the casting speed also bound to the attackspeed of their weapon?
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Is there going to be any restrictions for playing Co-Op with people, like region locking in Sc2, or you'd be able to play cross server regardless of ping ?
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Is it known how much of the first act is included in the beta? Or is that already the complete first act?
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On September 23 2011 00:53 Junichi wrote:
Is it known how much of the first act is included in the beta? Or is that already the complete first act?
It's a rather small part of act 1, until the Skeleton king. Not the complete first act.
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On September 23 2011 00:53 Junichi wrote:
Is it known how much of the first act is included in the beta? Or is that already the complete first act?
Supposedly it's roughly one-third of the first act.
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Is there going to be enhancement scrolls or anything similar to the enchantment scrolls found in WoW? ex. you can enchant a scroll and put it up on the auction house or give it to another character on the same account to use.
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On September 22 2011 22:43 Xedat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 04:29 VoirDire wrote:On September 21 2011 20:36 NeoLearner wrote:On September 21 2011 20:26 VoirDire wrote:On September 21 2011 19:48 NeoLearner wrote:On September 21 2011 19:31 VoirDire wrote:
With monk and the barbarian, there's a balance between fast and slow weapons of equal dps: where fast weapons generate resources (rage/spirit) faster due to more skills being used per time, slow weapons do more damage per spent resource.
Demon hunter on the other hand, has no resource generating skill as far as I can see. Instead their resource (hatred) regenerate over time. Wouldn't it be pointless with a fast shooting weapon for a demon hunter as that would only drain their resource faster without increasing the damage output? Am I missing something? It's the same trade off in D2. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies. If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage. It's the same trade off in D2.In d2, basically everyone had mana steal on their weapons so the regen vs spending wasn't an issue. You could basically spam the skill of your choice as much as you wanted with enough mana steal. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies.True, but that would make the demon hunter very weapon dependent If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it.Doesn't apply. The DH has no skills which add flat weapon damage. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies.
True. But on the other hand since heavier hitting weapons do more damage on the initial hit, they will be ahead in the damage curve. DPS doesn't factor in that the initial hit has no delay. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage.This is true, but blizzard usually try to balance that by making the modifiers of 2h weapons more potent. My point still remains. If the DH regens 10 per second and wishes to use multi shot (30 hatred) as their main skill. They will only be able to sustain 3.33 shots per second, regardless of weapon speed. Sorry, I thought we were brainstorming on whether you might have missed something. I wasn't making a point at all. The overkilling still stands, DPS is just the damage you will do per second when hitting a wall of infinite health points. Example: Your big 2 handed weapon does 30 damage in 1.5 seconds (DPS = 20). Your 1 handed 1 does 10 damage in 1 second (DPS = 10). There are 10 enemies with 10 health each. Both weapons need 10 hits, but the one handed weapon will do it in 10 seconds while the 2 handed needs 15. If you check the DPS over the complete group, DPS of the one handed weapon is higher. You are completely right about the hatred cost though, a faster hitting weapon will deplete it's hatred faster. I presume that's one of the points they will be changing when they talked about reordening the Demon Hunter's skills a bit? I'm sorry too, good sir. I misunderstood you. I think your presumption about blizz reordering DH skills is correct too. I just hope it's enough to balance the use of fast/slow weapons of the class. Your point about overkilling indeed remains. But so does the point about hard hitting weapons being a few steps ahead in the damage over time graph. They counter-balance each other. In your example, you are indeed correct that potential damage will be wasted in overkill. But let me make another example in which a little more sturdy monster requires between 3 and10 hits to kill depending on weapon type. + Show Spoiler +
Lets say that our monster has 100 hp and we have 2 weapons with the same DPS: One faster but lighter hitting weapon (Fast) that does 10 damage and hits once every second, and one slower but heavier hitting weapon (Slow) that does 40 damage and hits every 4th second. Both weapons have the raw DPS of 10 (damage / attack delay in seconds = 10 damage per second).
But a weapon with x dps doesn't necessarily kill a monster with t*x hp in t seconds. This is because we get the first hit in every fight "for free" before weapon cool down and dps calculation begins.
If we were to draw a graph with "HP left on monster on one axis" and "time" on the other with our previously defined Fast and Slow weapons, it will show that the slow weapon will kill the monster in less time, even considering overkill.
Time: x seconds since fight begun.
Monster HP left with fast weapon in time(x)
Monster HP left with slow weapon in time(x)
Time: 0 seconds.
Fast: 90hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 1 seconds.
Fast: 80hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 2 seconds.
Fast: 70hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 3 seconds.
Fast: 60hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 4 seconds.
Fast: 50hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 5 seconds.
Fast: 40hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 6 seconds.
Fast: 30hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 7 seconds.
Fast: 20hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 8 seconds.
Fast: 10hp left.
Slow: 0hp left (20 damage wasted in overkill)
Time: 9 seconds.
Fast: 0hp left.
Slow: still 0hp left
The "true" dps is something like:
Monster total HP / ( [hits required to kill monster-1] * [weapon attack delay] )
For Fast, it takes 9 seconds to kill a monster with 100 hp, making the true "dps" 11.11
100 / ((10-1)*1) = 11.11 dps
For Slow, it takes 8 seconds to kill a monster with 100 hp, making the "true" dps 12.5.
100 / (3-1)*4 = 12.5 dps.
There are off course situations where the initial hit advantage doesn't doesn't compensate for the damage lost in overkill. But I would chose a slower, heavier hitting weapon over a faster weapon with the same DPS in most situations due to the fact that every time you take a break in your fight longer than the attack delay (for moving, using other skills, fleeing etc) you gain the initial hit advantage once more. Your calculation is right, also at second 9 while the faster weapon killed the first target you already would have damaged the next target with the slower weapon. Did I understand it correctly that skills in D3 have a "cooldown" that is tied to your weapon speed? So the Barbarian can use cleave as many times per second as the attack speed of his mainhand weapon allows him to do normal attacks? And the WD and Wizard have a casting speed spell? Or is the casting speed also bound to the attackspeed of their weapon?
From what I've understood it works the same as in diablo 2, i.e. Spell casters have a global casting speed that affects all spells which have no set cool-down. The global casting speed can be modified by "+Casting Speed" items.
While we're on the subject of weaponspeed for DH. Their class specific weapons, hand crossbows, all have a comparatively high attack rate of 1.8 for the highest level. The crossbows have 1.0 and the bows have 1.4.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/hand-crossbow/
I hope there are some incentive for using fast attacking weapons.
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On September 23 2011 09:37 skyR wrote:
Is there going to be enhancement scrolls or anything similar to the enchantment scrolls found in WoW? ex. you can enchant a scroll and put it up on the auction house or give it to another character on the same account to use.
Good question. I'd like to know if you can somehow trade enchants (or other artisan services) myself.
From what I gather, you can find plans for enchantments that you can teach to your mystic (or sell in the AH), and you can obviously sell the end product (i.e. an enchanted item). But I don't know if you somehow can lend your artisan's services to other players. It doesn't seem like it, but it would be a nice feature.
Another question. Is there even a trade window for use between players in-game, like there was in d2?
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What does +armor on gear do? I know +defense stat reduces damage taken, does +armor just improve your dodge chance?
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On September 23 2011 10:38 VoirDire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 09:37 skyR wrote:
Is there going to be enhancement scrolls or anything similar to the enchantment scrolls found in WoW? ex. you can enchant a scroll and put it up on the auction house or give it to another character on the same account to use. Good question. I'd like to know if you can somehow trade enchants (or other artisan services) myself. From what I gather, you can find plans for enchantments that you can teach to your mystic (or sell in the AH), and you can obviously sell the end product (i.e. an enchanted item). But I don't know if you somehow can lend your artisan's services to other players. It doesn't seem like it, but it would be a nice feature. Another question. Is there even a trade window for use between players in-game, like there was in d2?
Ya there is a trade window, it's been mentioned here and there.
I don't think enhancements are unique or else that would be super dumb ><
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On September 23 2011 11:12 Bigpon86 wrote:
What does +armor on gear do? I know +defense stat reduces damage taken, does +armor just improve your dodge chance?
Defense reduces all damage taken while resists reduces magical damage taken. It would be logical to assume that armor would reduce physical damage. Especially since there is no "attack rating" or "to hit", precision only affects crit chance.
Not 100% sure though. If someone can confirm this, please do.
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On September 22 2011 04:29 VoirDire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 20:36 NeoLearner wrote:On September 21 2011 20:26 VoirDire wrote:On September 21 2011 19:48 NeoLearner wrote:On September 21 2011 19:31 VoirDire wrote:
With monk and the barbarian, there's a balance between fast and slow weapons of equal dps: where fast weapons generate resources (rage/spirit) faster due to more skills being used per time, slow weapons do more damage per spent resource.
Demon hunter on the other hand, has no resource generating skill as far as I can see. Instead their resource (hatred) regenerate over time. Wouldn't it be pointless with a fast shooting weapon for a demon hunter as that would only drain their resource faster without increasing the damage output? Am I missing something? It's the same trade off in D2. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies. If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage. It's the same trade off in D2.In d2, basically everyone had mana steal on their weapons so the regen vs spending wasn't an issue. You could basically spam the skill of your choice as much as you wanted with enough mana steal. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies.True, but that would make the demon hunter very weapon dependent If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it.Doesn't apply. The DH has no skills which add flat weapon damage. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies.
True. But on the other hand since heavier hitting weapons do more damage on the initial hit, they will be ahead in the damage curve. DPS doesn't factor in that the initial hit has no delay. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage.This is true, but blizzard usually try to balance that by making the modifiers of 2h weapons more potent. My point still remains. If the DH regens 10 per second and wishes to use multi shot (30 hatred) as their main skill. They will only be able to sustain 3.33 shots per second, regardless of weapon speed. Sorry, I thought we were brainstorming on whether you might have missed something. I wasn't making a point at all. The overkilling still stands, DPS is just the damage you will do per second when hitting a wall of infinite health points. Example: Your big 2 handed weapon does 30 damage in 1.5 seconds (DPS = 20). Your 1 handed 1 does 10 damage in 1 second (DPS = 10). There are 10 enemies with 10 health each. Both weapons need 10 hits, but the one handed weapon will do it in 10 seconds while the 2 handed needs 15. If you check the DPS over the complete group, DPS of the one handed weapon is higher. You are completely right about the hatred cost though, a faster hitting weapon will deplete it's hatred faster. I presume that's one of the points they will be changing when they talked about reordening the Demon Hunter's skills a bit? I'm sorry too, good sir. I misunderstood you. I think your presumption about blizz reordering DH skills is correct too. I just hope it's enough to balance the use of fast/slow weapons of the class. Your point about overkilling indeed remains. But so does the point about hard hitting weapons being a few steps ahead in the damage over time graph. They counter-balance each other. In your example, you are indeed correct that potential damage will be wasted in overkill. But let me make another example in which a little more sturdy monster requires between 3 and10 hits to kill depending on weapon type. + Show Spoiler +
Lets say that our monster has 100 hp and we have 2 weapons with the same DPS: One faster but lighter hitting weapon (Fast) that does 10 damage and hits once every second, and one slower but heavier hitting weapon (Slow) that does 40 damage and hits every 4th second. Both weapons have the raw DPS of 10 (damage / attack delay in seconds = 10 damage per second).
But a weapon with x dps doesn't necessarily kill a monster with t*x hp in t seconds. This is because we get the first hit in every fight "for free" before weapon cool down and dps calculation begins.
If we were to draw a graph with "HP left on monster on one axis" and "time" on the other with our previously defined Fast and Slow weapons, it will show that the slow weapon will kill the monster in less time, even considering overkill.
Time: x seconds since fight begun.
Monster HP left with fast weapon in time(x)
Monster HP left with slow weapon in time(x)
Time: 0 seconds.
Fast: 90hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 1 seconds.
Fast: 80hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 2 seconds.
Fast: 70hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 3 seconds.
Fast: 60hp left.
Slow: 60hp left
Time: 4 seconds.
Fast: 50hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 5 seconds.
Fast: 40hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 6 seconds.
Fast: 30hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 7 seconds.
Fast: 20hp left.
Slow: 20hp left
Time: 8 seconds.
Fast: 10hp left.
Slow: 0hp left (20 damage wasted in overkill)
Time: 9 seconds.
Fast: 0hp left.
Slow: still 0hp left
The "true" dps is something like:
Monster total HP / ( [hits required to kill monster-1] * [weapon attack delay] )
For Fast, it takes 9 seconds to kill a monster with 100 hp, making the true "dps" 11.11
100 / ((10-1)*1) = 11.11 dps
For Slow, it takes 8 seconds to kill a monster with 100 hp, making the "true" dps 12.5.
100 / (3-1)*4 = 12.5 dps.
There are off course situations where the initial hit advantage doesn't doesn't compensate for the damage lost in overkill. But I would chose a slower, heavier hitting weapon over a faster weapon with the same DPS in most situations due to the fact that every time you take a break in your fight longer than the attack delay (for moving, using other skills, fleeing etc) you gain the initial hit advantage once more.
Just an update on the situation. Blizzard acknowledged the problem and demon hunters now have spending and generating skills, much like the the monk and the barbarian.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/active/
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I was looking through the "Crafting Materials" section of the item database and I see that the materials you get from salvaging are
1) Item dependent: Magic, rare and legendary give different materials.
2) Difficulty dependent: Normal drops different stuff than Inferno
Anyone have any idea what happens when I take a Legendary Item that dropped in Normal to Inferno and salvage it there? What will I get? Does it show anywhere on the item that it dropped in Inferno? Will there be NO overlap between Nightmare/Hell.Inferno drops?
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Do you have to level the followers or are they always at the same level like my hero?
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On September 23 2011 16:04 x1r0 wrote:
Do you have to level the followers or are they always at the same level like my hero?
you have to level them up. you see their XP bar in the follower screen where you can equip them and select their skills
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If you sell your items using that Cauldron of Jordan item... are items sold for the same amount of gold that you would make if you sold it to a vendor? Or is it less (because it conveniently saves you a trip to town)? Or heck, is it more? Just wondering, in case I really need gold for some reason. Thanks 
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EPT
