I'd take this as official, but could still change.
From the GSL Code A Ro16 Live Thread:
On March 04 2011 19:40 GOM.Sam wrote: This should answer all the questions about IdrA's empty spot in GSL.
1) Code A winner is not going directly into Code S. 2) IdrA placed 4th in Group B 3) The winner of IEM World Championship will take IdrA's spot in GSL March Up and Down matches.
So, whoever wins IEM (all left were in Code A and lost) gets a shot at Up & Down. Solid choice it seems.
Clarification: EGIdra finished, officially, 4th in his group. This means the IEM winner will be available to be picked by the Top 2 Code A finishers. Then, they'll get 1 shot at Code S after playing the 4th place Up & Down match.
Thats really strange. I mean all off them lost code A first round didn´t they? And now they get a pretty good chance to get into code S which gives like more money then winning code A.
On March 04 2011 20:03 007Kain wrote: Thats really strange. I mean all off them lost code A first round didn´t they? And now they get a pretty good chance to get into code S which gives like more money then winning code A.
Wouldn't call it a "pretty good". They get one chance, against either a Code S player or Code A top 8 finisher. So, they get a chance. It's a solid way to not mess up their bracket system and reward good play outside of Korea.
It's definitely preferable to giving the Code A winner a free pass into Code S.
The problem with giving the Code A winner an automatic promotion was this: that in the up-and-down group vacated by IdrA, IdrA would automatically finish last. That meant the Code A winner could pick whoever he wanted of the 8 players who finished third in their groups in Code S Ro32 (likely a teammate) to also auto-advance.
This method of finding a replacement is as good as any, I guess. It also means that the winner of IEM will be guaranteed at least a Code A spot in the next season, even though originally, they would have had to play through the Code B offline tournament.
I don't understand why they don't just let the winner of Code A pick Idra's group for up/down matches... meaning winner of Code A goes straight into Code S. It seems the easiest way to do it--plus if all the ppl left in IEM got knocked out of Code A, then why would they be Code S material?
Not to sound harsh, because certainly these guys are a lot better than some ppl in Code S now, but this seems a rather arbitrary decision.
On March 04 2011 20:13 FunnelC4kes wrote: I don't understand why they don't just let the winner of Code A pick Idra's group for up/down matches... meaning winner of Code A goes straight into Code S. It seems the easiest way to do it--plus if all the ppl left in IEM got knocked out of Code A, then why would they be Code S material?
Not to sound harsh, because certainly these guys are a lot better than some ppl in Code S now, but this seems a rather arbitrary decision.
On March 04 2011 20:17 Tachion wrote: So the winner of IEM has a guarenteed spot in Code A next season even if they lose their up/down match? Since they're basically replacing Idra?
On March 04 2011 20:13 FunnelC4kes wrote: I don't understand why they don't just let the winner of Code A pick Idra's group for up/down matches... meaning winner of Code A goes straight into Code S. It seems the easiest way to do it--plus if all the ppl left in IEM got knocked out of Code A, then why would they be Code S material?
Not to sound harsh, because certainly these guys are a lot better than some ppl in Code S now, but this seems a rather arbitrary decision.
To be fair those left in IEM are all Code S worthy, maybe not so much Moon. I wonder what they would have done if Idra was still in the Semi's delay the announcement till he was knocked out ?
On March 04 2011 20:13 FunnelC4kes wrote: I don't understand why they don't just let the winner of Code A pick Idra's group for up/down matches... meaning winner of Code A goes straight into Code S. It seems the easiest way to do it--plus if all the ppl left in IEM got knocked out of Code A, then why would they be Code S material?
Not to sound harsh, because certainly these guys are a lot better than some ppl in Code S now, but this seems a rather arbitrary decision.
well seems ok, i feel its kind of unfair for those in code A though that hoped that they could get an easier shot into Code S, now, how do they replace the guy that goes to Code S?
On March 04 2011 20:28 Benjef wrote: To be fair those left in IEM are all Code S worthy, maybe not so much Moon. I wonder what they would have done if Idra was still in the Semi's delay the announcement till he was knocked out ?
Even Squirtle and Moonglade? Who lost 2-0 to Moon? On what basis are they more eligible for Code S than moon?
On March 04 2011 20:13 FunnelC4kes wrote: I don't understand why they don't just let the winner of Code A pick Idra's group for up/down matches... meaning winner of Code A goes straight into Code S. It seems the easiest way to do it--plus if all the ppl left in IEM got knocked out of Code A, then why would they be Code S material?
Not to sound harsh, because certainly these guys are a lot better than some ppl in Code S now, but this seems a rather arbitrary decision.
Because they'd lose 1/2 a day's worth of content.
Oh, the horror!
They make their money off the content. So, yes, it would be a very serious problem.
I'm not digging the way it's going about. Maybe if the top 4 in IEM were others but it's all code A people. Can you imagine moonglade making it to code S before ret? Moonglade is good but there would be other deserving players who deserve code s. Then win iem and then an up and down match is much easier than going through code A I think
this is probably one of the stupidest decisions ever lol, coda a players are gonna be pissed. It almost seems like they just came up with this idea on the fly once they say all 4 players left in iem were code a. Stupid!
On March 04 2011 20:13 FunnelC4kes wrote: I don't understand why they don't just let the winner of Code A pick Idra's group for up/down matches... meaning winner of Code A goes straight into Code S. It seems the easiest way to do it--plus if all the ppl left in IEM got knocked out of Code A, then why would they be Code S material?
Not to sound harsh, because certainly these guys are a lot better than some ppl in Code S now, but this seems a rather arbitrary decision.
Because they'd lose 1/2 a day's worth of content.
Oh, the horror!
They make their money off the content. So, yes, it would be a very serious problem.
There are many ways to fill time other than arbitrarily giving somebody a spot in Code A, even though they just recently failed to qualify it.
Sure, it's a nice chance for players we know and like to get back into the game while not losing content, but in so doing they compromise the integrity of the qualification system they use.
On March 04 2011 20:13 FunnelC4kes wrote: I don't understand why they don't just let the winner of Code A pick Idra's group for up/down matches... meaning winner of Code A goes straight into Code S. It seems the easiest way to do it--plus if all the ppl left in IEM got knocked out of Code A, then why would they be Code S material?
Not to sound harsh, because certainly these guys are a lot better than some ppl in Code S now, but this seems a rather arbitrary decision.
Because they'd lose 1/2 a day's worth of content.
Oh, the horror!
They make their money off the content. So, yes, it would be a very serious problem.
There are many ways to fill time other than arbitrarily giving somebody a spot in Code A, even though they just recently failed to qualify it.
Sure, it's a nice chance for players we know and like to get back into the game while not losing content, but in so doing they compromise the integrity of the qualification system they use.
People that hoping for Moonglade to win IEM is just too optimistic. He needs to get pass 2 KOREANS in 2 BO5. I don't think so. This announcement was more for the 3 Koreans than moonglade.
What kinda decision is this? How terrible... seems out of the blue. Just have the "Idra" spot lose its way out of Code A. Not sure who GOM is trying to impress with this news, I guess an attempt to draw more foreign fans? It just comes off as random with no real meaning behind it.
On March 04 2011 20:13 FunnelC4kes wrote: I don't understand why they don't just let the winner of Code A pick Idra's group for up/down matches... meaning winner of Code A goes straight into Code S. It seems the easiest way to do it--plus if all the ppl left in IEM got knocked out of Code A, then why would they be Code S material?
Not to sound harsh, because certainly these guys are a lot better than some ppl in Code S now, but this seems a rather arbitrary decision.
Because they'd lose 1/2 a day's worth of content.
Oh, the horror!
They make their money off the content. So, yes, it would be a very serious problem.
There are many ways to fill time other than arbitrarily giving somebody a spot in Code A, even though they just recently failed to qualify it.
Sure, it's a nice chance for players we know and like to get back into the game while not losing content, but in so doing they compromise the integrity of the qualification system they use.
You mean like inviting Huk?
Yes, and no. Yes, because he did not qualify for GSL3. No, however, because he would have been free to attempt Code A through open qualifiers. There is no way of knowing whether or not he would have qualified.
I don't see the problem. The 4 people in the IEM quarterfinals are Code A starters this season (although m00nglade was seeded in). None of them made it into the up and down matches by themselves, but are redeeming themselves by making it to the semis of the only other major tournament currently playing. Seems if you have to pick someone, this is the fairest thing to do. Fairer at least than having 1 free pass to code S (even if it's for the code A winner), because the other two people in that group also have an easier time.
On March 04 2011 20:13 FunnelC4kes wrote: I don't understand why they don't just let the winner of Code A pick Idra's group for up/down matches... meaning winner of Code A goes straight into Code S. It seems the easiest way to do it--plus if all the ppl left in IEM got knocked out of Code A, then why would they be Code S material?
Not to sound harsh, because certainly these guys are a lot better than some ppl in Code S now, but this seems a rather arbitrary decision.
Because they'd lose 1/2 a day's worth of content.
Oh, the horror!
They make their money off the content. So, yes, it would be a very serious problem.
There are many ways to fill time other than arbitrarily giving somebody a spot in Code A, even though they just recently failed to qualify it.
Sure, it's a nice chance for players we know and like to get back into the game while not losing content, but in so doing they compromise the integrity of the qualification system they use.
You mean like inviting Huk?
Yes, and no. Yes, because he did not qualify for GSL3. No, however, because he would have been free to attempt Code A through open qualifiers. There is no way of knowing whether or not he would have qualified.
He didn't make them before, not that he isn't good enough but Code A qualifier is extremely tough now. Only Koreans that are still in CODE A should complain about this. This is more of an advertising move since the IEM winner will be well known by westerners which increases the chance for more viewerships/vod buyers for the GSL.
"oh I enjoyed that watching that korean in the IEM, maybe I'll watch him in the GSL" ect.
If anything we all should just support this move so that SC2 Esport can continue to prosper in Korea
On March 04 2011 20:13 FunnelC4kes wrote: I don't understand why they don't just let the winner of Code A pick Idra's group for up/down matches... meaning winner of Code A goes straight into Code S. It seems the easiest way to do it--plus if all the ppl left in IEM got knocked out of Code A, then why would they be Code S material?
Not to sound harsh, because certainly these guys are a lot better than some ppl in Code S now, but this seems a rather arbitrary decision.
Because they'd lose 1/2 a day's worth of content.
Oh, the horror!
They make their money off the content. So, yes, it would be a very serious problem.
There are many ways to fill time other than arbitrarily giving somebody a spot in Code A, even though they just recently failed to qualify it.
Sure, it's a nice chance for players we know and like to get back into the game while not losing content, but in so doing they compromise the integrity of the qualification system they use.
You mean like inviting Huk?
Yes, and no. Yes, because he did not qualify for GSL3. No, however, because he would have been free to attempt Code A through open qualifiers. There is no way of knowing whether or not he would have qualified.
But three of the final four of IEM have already qualified and played in GSL on multiple occasions. No one can dispute that these players can compete in Code A. It might not be the perfect solution, but it's simple and fairly good. I'm sure they thought of other solutions as well and decided this was the best one considering the circumstances. The complainers don't have a solution at all.
I would like to see Squirtle in Code A, moonglade was diappointing in GSL so if he made code S, wouldn't you be a little angry considering the choked hard on his first match?
I don't really like it tbh all of them lost in the first round of Code A, totally outclassed in their games, and now they could see themselves in Code S. Not fair to the players of Code A who beat them in my opinion.
Well, it's not so unfair. The still have to fill one more whole in the GSL, since Idra left, and there isn't a ranking system for people to get into Code A. This seems like a logical choice. Besides, they are not being placed right into Code S, if they don't play well, the just fill that empty spot that the GSL has.
Slap a face to the people in Code-A, since the competition is so much better than IEM. And what about the great players fighting in the up and down matches, it would be terrible to see an inferior player get a free Code-S (if they're lucky with groups).
This comes from their desire to put some weight behind foreigner tournaments. They already stated that some qualifiers will come from good performance in foreign tournaments, and with Idra dropping out they got a perfect opportunity to follow through with that.
There's a very good chance this player will not make it to code S, which means they're immediately requalified into code A based on an impressive tournament performance. I don't see too much wrong with that.
On March 04 2011 21:18 zyzq wrote: Slap a face to the people in Code-A, since the competition is so much better than IEM. And what about the great players fighting in the up and down matches, it would be terrible to see an inferior player get a free Code-S (if they're lucky with groups).
I don't think the gap between the Up and Down matches is so much that compared to the finals of the IEM.
On March 04 2011 21:35 Mailing wrote: Moonglade does not deserve it, he
1. Is basically a korean player (as much as idra is)
2. He JUST got knocked out of Code A a few days ago.
Morrow should be the one given a chance.
I don't think Moonglade can be counted as a Korean player. He was mainly active in SEA and just move to Korea around 1 month ago. Not enough time to get the advantage.
About as unfair a solution as was possible. The Koreans in IEM basically got rewarded for getting knocked out of Code A in the first round. It freed up their schedule to come to IEM, stomp through easier competition and get a shot at the up and down matches. In the mean time, half the people who actually won their first round in Code A and thus outperformed the IEM guys, get no chance to play for Code S.
Giving the winner of Code A a free pass seems much better. Code A has some really sick players in it and you have to be quite a boss to win that tournamnet
On March 04 2011 20:13 FunnelC4kes wrote: I don't understand why they don't just let the winner of Code A pick Idra's group for up/down matches... meaning winner of Code A goes straight into Code S. It seems the easiest way to do it--plus if all the ppl left in IEM got knocked out of Code A, then why would they be Code S material?
Because that would also imply that he would get a free voucher, with which he can get anybody else of the up-and-down matches to code S. Simply pick Idra (auto-loss) and one of your teammates, profit! :D
On March 04 2011 21:46 Lann555 wrote: About as unfair a solution as was possible. The Koreans in IEM basically got rewarded for getting knocked out of Code A in the first round. It freed up their schedule to come to IEM, stomp through easier competition and get a shot at the up and down matches. In the mean time, half the people who actually won their first round in Code A and thus outperformed the IEM guys, get no chance to play for Code S.
Giving the winner of Code A a free pass seems much better. Code A has some really sick players in it and you have to be quite a boss to win that tournamnet
I must agree completely. While this seems pretty cool on the surface, it is MASSIVELY unfair to Code A players. I feel bad for many of them, especially the ones that beat Moon/Moonglade/Ace/Squirtle.
On March 04 2011 21:18 zyzq wrote: Slap a face to the people in Code-A, since the competition is so much better than IEM. And what about the great players fighting in the up and down matches, it would be terrible to see an inferior player get a free Code-S (if they're lucky with groups).
If such a bad player would really get into the up-and-down matches via IEM, then you can be pretty sure that the winner of Code A would insta-pick him and roflstomp over him to Code S.
On March 04 2011 21:46 Lann555 wrote: About as unfair a solution as was possible. The Koreans in IEM basically got rewarded for getting knocked out of Code A in the first round. It freed up their schedule to come to IEM, stomp through easier competition and get a shot at the up and down matches. In the mean time, half the people who actually won their first round in Code A and thus outperformed the IEM guys, get no chance to play for Code S.
Giving the winner of Code A a free pass seems much better. Code A has some really sick players in it and you have to be quite a boss to win that tournamnet
You're forgetting that someone relatively undeserving would need to take the empty Code A place in up and down matches, and would also get two bo1 chances to advance to Code S. Idra's spot only gets one chance.
delighted by this move. all of the players that can benefit from this would deserve it, giving the winner of the crapshoot that is code A would probably also be fine but i don't really like it.
On March 04 2011 20:01 MuTT wrote: code a people are going to rage. Foreigner seeds and now this LOL
listen to idra and ret talk about trying to break into the starcarft scene in korea. their all dicks tbh, i dont care if one of them gets shafted to give another guy a break
Not to rain of Moonglade's parade or anything, I really like the guy, but he went 0-2 in the first round of Code A vs ZeNEXJJUN. Look at who is in the up and down matches right now, a lot of amazing players: Fruitdealer, MVP, Nestea... I honestly don't think he has a chance, however it will at least seed him a spot in Code A again right?
On March 04 2011 22:58 HeIios wrote: Unfair, but a good incentive for people to get a good foot into the proscene without moving to korea. Thanks GOM!
But it's not really an incentive; this really is just because idra left and they have a spot to fill.
Unless moonglade wins*, it's really defeating the purpose. You'll have two koreans fighting for code S up/down, just like you would have in korea. And even still, moonglade has to beat 2 koreans to win the tourney from here. There's no foreign feel to it.
If you were a korean in code A ro16 and didn't go to IEM because of that (ofc space is limited, but w/e) and lost, wouldn't you be mad if 3 koreans who lost round of 32 then went to a foreign tourney, all 3 made the semis, and then got to go to up down matches? Koreans have every right to be mad from just a korean perpective (ignoring foreigners all together).
*I don't know if games have been played yet for semis.
It's a rather brilliant marketing move. The GOM people just generated more buzz for their product. They will get free mentions all over the eSports community for this on a week that should be dominated by talk of IEM and their world championship. It will generate talk all about GOM whether this is fair or unfair. They will tap into the European market even more by getting this pub from the IEM. If IEM even mentions at all that the winner gets to go GSL, it's free advertising on IEM's time.
On March 04 2011 22:34 turdburgler wrote: listen to idra and ret talk about trying to break into the starcarft scene in korea. their all dicks tbh, i dont care if one of them gets shafted to give another guy a break
Knowing quite a few Koreans I'd say it's more of a cultural problem, one that is particularly difficult for Americans to overcome.
If you're from Northern Europe it is often quite a bit easier.
How should Morrow be given a chance? he lost to 2 out of the 4 players that have a shot, and didn't have a chance to play the other 2 (Squirtle and Moon). He also lost convincingly to Ret who got knocked out in first round as well, but is recognised as a top tier (top 10) foreigner. When he travels to Korea he might get a seed in Code A anyway...
How should Morrow be given a chance? he lost to 2 out of the 4 players that have a shot, and didn't have a chance to play the other 2 (Squirtle and Moon). He also lost convincingly to Ret who got knocked out in first round as well, but is recognised as a top tier (top 10) foreigner. When he travels to Korea he might get a seed in Code A anyway...
Morrow is still in school. He stated he was finishing school before trying anything. Although I can't remember exactly how European school timetables work, I think this is still the case.
It makes some business sense as well at least. Intel now sponsors GSL so by bringing the two competitions together like this, will increase interest in IEM by quite abit. Cross promotion ftw. I hadn't really been paying much attention to it before this.
The auto get into code s after winning code a kinda made more sense to me. Winning code a atm is a great achievement but the benefit isn't as large as i feel it should be. The prize pool for code a is comparatively low and then its into the up and down matches anyway.
I like this GOM idea... Now people who get to knock back early will not waste a month. They will try to apply for foreign tournaments (non-koreans ones) so they can get some cash and in instance sth happens to the player in S or A class they can get into it. Korean wave incoming to big western sc2 tournaments.
To those who claim that this is a great decision and will allow "more foreigners" in GSL, please note that the final 4 players are 3 Koreans and an Australian who has already been seeded in code A this season. I don't believe future IEM winners will get this chance as this is just an arrangement to deal with Idra's departure from Korea.
Moon took out Squirtle in Semi-Finals 1, so the 3 players fighting for these spots are : 1. FOXMoon who lost to ST_Virus (RO8 atm) 2. ST_Ace who lost to ZeNeXCoCa (out in the RO16 after losing to LeenockfOu) 3. FXOmOOnGLaDe who lost to ZeNeXJjun (out in the R16 after losing to TSL_Rain)
Why should they deserve a second chance? In the case of (2) and (3), their opponents who they lost to don't even have a chance at all of qualifying for code S, yet they do. You argue that since they aren't so good anyway they won't win and thus will not qualify for code S, but that's not the point. The game is not stable and anything can still happen in SC2 (just look at the upsets this season). Them getting a chance at all in the Up/Down matches by competing in a tournament that is of lower standard than code A seems ridiculous especially after they got knocked out in RO32. They also guarantee a spot in code A next season.
You cannot compare this situation to the direct seed of the 4 foreigners into Code A. The reason why there is this arrangement for foreigners is to attract them to go compete in Korea. It is not worth it going to Korea knowing that you might fail to qualify for GSL. The chance of failing is too huge, so most people are not willing to invest their time / money to go to KR.
Top 8 Code A technically is equivalent to 3rd place in code S, since both of them get 2 chances to survive the Up/Down. With a pool of 23 players after the season ends, either: 1) Let the finalists of code A qualify for code S automatically. (They deserve it don't they? Code A isn't easy either) Form 7 groups of 3 with the remaining players, although you lose half a day of content. 2) Find a 24th player from 9-16 of code A. Just a thought.
Well, if Intel is pulling the strings, then whatever, I don't see GOM going against their sponsor.
On March 04 2011 20:28 Benjef wrote: To be fair those left in IEM are all Code S worthy, maybe not so much Moon. I wonder what they would have done if Idra was still in the Semi's delay the announcement till he was knocked out ?
Even Squirtle and Moonglade? Who lost 2-0 to Moon? On what basis are they more eligible for Code S than moon?
didnt squirtle all-kill IM or something? time to demote mvp to code a herpderp
On March 04 2011 20:28 Benjef wrote: To be fair those left in IEM are all Code S worthy, maybe not so much Moon. I wonder what they would have done if Idra was still in the Semi's delay the announcement till he was knocked out ?
Even Squirtle and Moonglade? Who lost 2-0 to Moon? On what basis are they more eligible for Code S than moon?
didnt squirtle all-kill IM or something? time to demote mvp to code a herpderp
No... IM won the whole event. Great idea imo regardless of what the motives were.
If moon and ace don't deserve spot in GSL who does? they just pwned what I believe are EU/NA best players It would be nicer if we knew about this reward before tournament started but it's still nice solution
I like this. It's kinda like in the english premier league. If you do not qualify to the UEFA cup , you can do so by winning domestic competitions ( FA cup or Carling Cup).
I think this is only controversial because they announce it midway. But for subsequent tournaments, we can see people who got knocked out in gsl flooding IEM and this will increase the skill level of IEM tremendously.
Sure this sucks for the rest of code A this season but in the long run its probably for the greater good.
I think this is a unfair decision. If they would seed the IEM winner into code A it would be ok, butseeding them into up and down matches is a delicate move. Imagine you were one of the code A players who knocked out the IEM winner just to face him in up&down matches again, wouldnt you be pissed? Or imagine the drama if the IEM winner gets into code S with luck (allin or cheese or something). It feels like all this random seeding stuff is hurting the image of a tournament that wants to be taken serious as the most prestiguous tournament in the world. I could live with it if there was a rule how such situations (like the Idra situation) are handleled, that was known to all players and viewers before the tournament starts. But such sudden decisions make it feel rather random and unfair. To me it looks like they are trying to get moon back in the tournament (for obvious reasons) not to help get more foreigners in the GSL. Maybe im wrong, but this on the fly decisions (or publications) dont really help to disprove my concerns. In the end its arguable if this decision is wrong or not. Since more viewers for GSL does not only mean more money for gom but also a bigger exposure for e-sports, wich is a good thing i guess. But at some point in the future we have to ask us what kind of tournaments (players) do we want? Those that are popular or those that perform good? Is this a show(drama) or is this a sport(competition)? Is this WWF or is this FIFA?
I like it. They needed a short-term solution to that issue, and they want to make sure that their tournament stars some skilled players that may show impressive games (= more views = more income).
Seeding someone who wins a major international tournament with a decent prize pool against other Korean invites is guaranteed to bring media and community attention, and they can rely on one more experienced player to bring entertainment to the GSL.
I think this is a great idea by GOM. True, the four semifinalists of IEM were all knocked out of code A, but having represented Korea(except for Moonglade who represents SEA) in a global tournament like that means they are players of high caliber who belong among the best. And I think its great that GOM recognises other tournaments outside Korea as highly competitive and rewards players who participates and do well in them.
Is it unfair that one of those guys gets a free pass to the Up/down matches? Maybe it is, but not everything is fair in life and I dont see a problem with rewarding someone who plays well, even if the tournament is not actually a part of GSL.
Looks like either Ace or Moon is gonna get that spot in the up and down matches. Even though it isn't exactly fair to the other code A players, I still like that GOM did this. Given his performance so far, I'd say Ace can look forward to playing in code S next season.
It's moon or ace. Moon went out ro32 code A this time. As did ace. That's a pretty big bump really. I dunno, guess it just doesn't seem right to me, but then again it's a weird situation.
Why don't we just wait one season to find out if this is "fair" decision or not? That will ultimately prove if they're good enough to stay or not. If so, we'll see if they win their GSL matches and be qualified enough to stay in Code S/A. Otherwise, if they drop down to Code B in just one season, we'll know that they weren't ready for the GSL. I mean seriously, just wait a couple months.
On March 05 2011 02:48 Torumfroll wrote: I think this is a great idea by GOM. True, the four semifinalists of IEM were all knocked out of code A, but having represented Korea(except for Moonglade who represents SEA) in a global tournament like that means they are players of high caliber who belong among the best. And I think its great that GOM recognises other tournaments outside Korea as highly competitive and rewards players who participates and do well in them.
Is it unfair that one of those guys gets a free pass to the Up/down matches? Maybe it is, but not everything is fair in life and I dont see a problem with rewarding someone who plays well, even if the tournament is not actually a part of GSL.
Yeah, I agree with this entirely. It's a much better solution than giving a Code A player a free pass to Code S (plus a free pass for whoever they pick).
I'm actually very interested in seeing if Ace or Moon gets picked by one of the top 2 from Code A. This would be a good indication of if the other Korean teams actually feel Ace or Moon deserve to be there.
On March 05 2011 03:05 Frazzlehoon wrote: Why don't we just wait one season to find out if this is "fair" decision or not? That will ultimately prove if they're good enough to stay or not. If so, we'll see if they win their GSL matches and be qualified enough to stay in Code S/A. Otherwise, if they drop down to Code B in just one season, we'll know that they weren't ready for the GSL. I mean seriously, just wait a couple months.
Because code A/code S distinction is primarily determined by some luck for most people at this time (save for some top code S players, but this season shows even the best can lose). Starcraft2 and starcraft 1, at the top level, is highly volatile and with the GSL there just isn't enough games to show any overwhelming skill difference. Starcraft brood war has the proleague, which gives sufficient amount of games for TaekBangLeeSsang & co to show their worth above the rest.
So it's not "proving their skill" that gets you into code S/code A at the moment. It's very volatile, and still will be in a few months. There is nothing to wait for; we already know that <IEM finalist 1> and <IEM finalist 2> are skilled. The same goes for the people they lost to in code A. Giving IEM winner idra's spot is an arbitrary seeding spot that is better served by just keeping it in korea.
If future IEM winners are given the same spot and the announcement well in advance that provides incentive for players.
But if intel is involved that actually makes a lot of sense. I forgot about who was sponsoring what. Marketing wise or w/e this can be a fine/great decision. But it doesn't really have merit otherwise.
I don't think this is a terrible choice, but I'm not sure if it's the correct one. The probably winner of IEM (Ace) is a good player, but it still remains he wen't out in the ro.32. Imo, they should have just held an 8 tournament for the lsoing people in the ro.16 or something, but that might have been too much effort.
On March 05 2011 03:25 pHelix Equilibria wrote: Well wasn't the Koreans doing ridiculously well at IEM? Are they going to clarify that the next highest ranking foreigner to take the spot?
The point isn't to get foreigners in, it's to avoid having the code A winner giving a free ride to a 3rd place, or giving free rides to code A finalists. You can argue that they are more worthy of getting a free ride into S, than someone who lost in Code A RO32 (but won IEM) is to get one chance of getting into S with a guaranteed code A next season.
Why cant GOM do the same as with LiveForever last season, do a mini tournament for all the 8 people who failed to win in the up and down matches. Giving a free pass for players who were knocked out first round does not seems fair.
On March 05 2011 03:36 godemperor wrote: Why cant GOM do the same as with LiveForever last season, do a mini tournament for all the 8 people who failed to win in the up and down matches. Giving a free pass for players who were knocked out first round does not seems fair.
But they aren't giving a free pass for players knocked out in the Ro32. They are giving one free pass to the winner of the IEM Global Championship just this once because IdrA's absence opens one spot.
It happens to be a player knocked out in Ro32 that will win IEM yes but you can't look at it that way since it could've been anyone in that tournament. That's flawed logic.
Edit: They are also not taking away the chance of anyone else. They are just filling a missing spot with a player that has to win a prestigeful tournament to get 1 chance in the up and down-matches.
NBA: Player who scores most points in All Star game gets his team the extra playoff spot!
I like the idea someone said about letting Code A winner get the free trip to Code S. That seems fair for everyone since that guy has to win so many rounds of code A for $1,500 and...the chance to choose your opponent?
Winning IEM looks 10 times easier than making it out of Code A this season.
Well we are talking about Intel GSL and Intel Extreme Masters. Looks like the decision about it was made considering the sponsor. It bring both hype to IEM and GSL. People in Korea will watch the finals of the IEM knowing that the winner is going to up/down code S matches. Also GOM is getting some extra publicity.
But you guys forget the main issue. Its happening once (cause player retired during tournament) and they had to replace his spot. It doesnt mean that next IEM winner would get a ticket to GSL. Its once in a time situation.
On March 05 2011 04:01 Frankon wrote: Well we are talking about Intel GSL and Intel Extreme Masters. Looks like the decision about it was made considering the sponsor. It bring both hype to IEM and GSL. People in Korea will watch the finals of the IEM knowing that the winner is going to up/down code S matches. Also GOM is getting some extra publicity.
But you guys forget the main issue. Its happening once (cause player retired during tournament) and they had to replace his spot. It doesnt mean that next IEM winner would get a ticket to GSL. Its once in a time situation.
The feeling of entitlement seems to be omnipresent these days.
Here's the thing: the only place where fair and unfair exist is in your head. They run the tournament, not you. They can do whatever the hell they want.
On March 05 2011 03:52 Horse...falcon wrote: NBA: Player who scores most points in All Star game gets his team the extra playoff spot!
I like the idea someone said about letting Code A winner get the free trip to Code S. That seems fair for everyone since that guy has to win so many rounds of code A for $1,500 and...the chance to choose your opponent?
Winning IEM looks 10 times easier than making it out of Code A this season.
Yea i totally agree it would have been a way better idea to have the Code a winner just move up to Code s. Koreans are most likely gonna clinch the first 3 spots at IEM (moon and ace in the finals , squirtle fighting for third) and they arent even close to the best in korea the skill level in korea is just higher overall that is why three players not even in the gsl anymore can come over to IEM and mop house with the best players outside of korea it really didnt seem like much of a challenge to ace to get this far he won so many consecutive games. Hes a great player but doesnt deserve to be in the up and down matches after losing code a in the round of 32 i would be pissed off if i was one of the code a players.
Should have screenshot it when I saw it, but alas.
The original message on Twitter announced that the Top Non-Korean in IEM would go into the up and down matches. This was changed 2-3 minutes later to say the winner (probably because they realised moonglade was already the highest and announcing this was basically saying "MoonGlade into up and down").
I do prefer Code A winner getting automatic entry since i feel that winning Code A should be better than what it is. But to me this still makes sense to replace Idra outright and GOM is definitely doing a good job of not coming across as the Korean tournament. They're doing everything possible, it seems, to reach out to foreigners. And really, they even said right from the get go that accomplishments would determine the free foreigner spots and stuff. This is all pretty consistent and i like their dedication to that.
On March 05 2011 05:05 hydraden wrote: This decision is absurd. This kind of decision is like GOM CEO sitting on toilet, suddenly had this idea.
This will make code A players who did not get to up and down matches so mad. Gom will lose their reputation for doing so.
Its a great decision, it shows that Korea is showing respect to foreign tournaments and at the same time solving the issue which would have given them a headache for Code S, all in one swell swoop.
On March 05 2011 05:05 hydraden wrote: This decision is absurd. This kind of decision is like GOM CEO sitting on toilet, suddenly had this idea.
This will make code A players who did not get to up and down matches so mad. Gom will lose their reputation for doing so.
Its a great decision, it shows that Korea is showing respect to foreign tournaments and at the same time solving the issue which would have given them a headache for Code S, all in one swell swoop.
Why should they give foreign tournaments respect? Most foreign tournaments are just crap.
When you organize a tournaments, you should be fair to everyone. This is too unfair for those code A players who did not make up down matches. If any one of them come to Germany, they will have a pretty good chance to win the whole thing. Why are these 3 GSL prelim players so special? Gom is disappointing everyone.
On March 05 2011 05:05 hydraden wrote: This decision is absurd. This kind of decision is like GOM CEO sitting on toilet, suddenly had this idea.
This will make code A players who did not get to up and down matches so mad. Gom will lose their reputation for doing so.
Quite the opposite actually. it's great.
Also people have to remember that gom invited 4 foreigners to code A without making them qualify for it. I don't see how people can criticize the decision of letting the winner of a world championship get one shot to qualify for code S.
World Champion? It is a joke. They should not invite foreigners directly into code A. Everyone should go through preliminary round.
On March 05 2011 05:19 CoR wrote: because they was invites cause they was good code A players ?
and dude ... even Ace lost 1. round code A you rly think there so many better players code a then ACE ? i dont think so ...
This season, he did not win anyone who are in Code A right now. And nobody in code A went to IEM. How can you assume he is better than them? Just from the results, he is definitely not better than any one of them.
On March 05 2011 05:19 CoR wrote: because they was invites cause they was good code A players ?
and dude ... even Ace lost 1. round code A you rly think there so many better players code a then ACE ? i dont think so ...
This season, he did not win anyone who are in Code A right now. And nobody in code A went to IEM. How can you assume he is better than them? Just from the results, he is definitely not better than any one of them.
yeah cos if he loses to someone twice means he loses to them 100% of games . get a clue kido no reason to throw a tantrum here if gom decides to value iem results
On March 05 2011 05:19 CoR wrote: because they was invites cause they was good code A players ?
and dude ... even Ace lost 1. round code A you rly think there so many better players code a then ACE ? i dont think so ...
This season, he did not win anyone who are in Code A right now. And nobody in code A went to IEM. How can you assume he is better than them? Just from the results, he is definitely not better than any one of them.
yeah cos if he loses to someone twice means he loses to them 100% of games . get a clue kido no reason to throw a tantrum here if gom decides to value iem results
If they get a second chance to stay in Code A, that's totaly fine, and great. But chance to code S, that's absurd.
As is, the 4 remaining IEM competitors all lost in the first round of Code A (which is why they had time to get over to Europe). Why, then, do any of them deserve an up/down match more than the winner of Code A deserves a free pass to Code S?
This is great for IEM however, as it lends even more credibility to the tournament.
On March 05 2011 05:19 CoR wrote: because they was invites cause they was good code A players ?
and dude ... even Ace lost 1. round code A you rly think there so many better players code a then ACE ? i dont think so ...
This season, he did not win anyone who are in Code A right now. And nobody in code A went to IEM. How can you assume he is better than them? Just from the results, he is definitely not better than any one of them.
yeah cos if he loses to someone twice means he loses to them 100% of games . get a clue kido no reason to throw a tantrum here if gom decides to value iem results
If they get a second chance to stay in Code A, that's totaly fine, and great. But chance to code S, that's absurd.
GOM is basically saying to send your winner here to korea to compete against our very best for winning your tournament. The guys at IEM are getting a very lucky break not to have to start from the bottom next season by getting a seeding from IEM.
Why do people argue that this decision is good because it gives more reputation to foreign tournaments. I dont see that at all. If it was the case, they would have anounced this before the IEM started. + Show Spoiler +
As far as i understand it, GOM saw Moonglade, Moon, Squirtle and Ace in the semifinals (all of them are knocked out Code A players) so they decided to give a wildcard to one of those 4 players. This 4 players are already in korea and GOM knows they are willing to play in GSL. This decision would never have been made if for example QXC, Sjow, Idra and White-Ra were the IEM semifinalists. GOM sees the opportunity to solve their Idra spot problem without organizing a wildcard tournament themself, it s an elegant solution for GOM although not very fair for the code A players (but its not the end of the world either).
I would like for gomtv to be more consistent though because this isn't going to be a one-time thing. Things come up and it's not at all implausible that 1 out of 32 players has to withdraw from the tournament. They need a more consistent system...
I have to wonder, when were invites to IEM decided (for korea)?
4 Code A players were invited (including Moonglade) , if they had not been knocked out first round of Code A they would have had to play GSL on the same day as IEM (not possible to be in two places at once, assuming that they had to fly out to play IEM instead of playing from korea).
So, either A - invites were given out after they dropped from code A (unlikely) or B - invites were given to them before and maybe they purposely lost code A in first round (considering how much more the prize money is for IEM top 4 than for winning Code A) or C - possibility i havent thought of
On March 05 2011 05:19 CoR wrote: because they was invites cause they was good code A players ?
and dude ... even Ace lost 1. round code A you rly think there so many better players code a then ACE ? i dont think so ...
This season, he did not win anyone who are in Code A right now. And nobody in code A went to IEM. How can you assume he is better than them? Just from the results, he is definitely not better than any one of them.
Just from the results, he beat a code S player 2-0 at IEM.
a theory: mby SjoW knew about this and that's why he said in the interview with Rakaka.se that he might be going to Korea in like a week/week and a half. (This interview was of course made before he was out, after his two initial victories.)
On March 05 2011 05:48 Fenrisulf wrote: I have to wonder, when were invites to IEM decided (for korea)?
4 Code A players were invited (including Moonglade) , if they had not been knocked out first round of Code A they would have had to play GSL on the same day as IEM (not possible to be in two places at once, assuming that they had to fly out to play IEM instead of playing from korea).
So, either A - invites were given out after they dropped from code A (unlikely) or B - invites were given to them before and maybe they purposely lost code A in first round (considering how much more the prize money is for IEM top 4 than for winning Code A) or C - possibility i havent thought of
C - they got invited and initially didnt want to go because of gsl, and when they lost, they decided to go? .... maybe? idc
It would have been better if the winner of Code A gets a free pass into Code S because winning Code A this season seems like the most difficult thing in Starcraft 2. So many Code A players are of Code S caliber. Winning Code A and have to face any of the players like MVP, Nestea, MKP in the up and down match in order to get into Code S is an impossible task.
On March 05 2011 05:48 Fenrisulf wrote: 4 Code A players were invited (including Moonglade) , if they had not been knocked out first round of Code A they would have had to play GSL on the same day as IEM (not possible to be in two places at once, assuming that they had to fly out to play IEM instead of playing from korea).
The 4 korean invites are Ace, Moon, Squirtle and Idra. mOOnGLaDe won the IEM Asia finals vs. Loner and secured his spot at IEM.
This is a great move, I'm not sure why people are so down about it.
Giving the winner of Code A a free pass into Code S wouldn't work if only for the fact that they could pick a teammate as their 3rd group member and have them also auto-advance. While the Code A winner might deserve it, the Code S player who dropped out of his group in the first round certainly does not.
There's no doubt that Code A is one of the strongest tournaments in the world right now, and we saw a lot of really good players get eliminated in the ro32. I think this is as good a way as any of replacing IdrA in the up/down matches and while it's giving select Code A players a second chance (which may seem unfair), they have to win a major international tournament to get it. It is by no means a free pass to Code S and they only have one chance in the up and down matches against what is probably a very strong group with the way the up/down matches look.
On March 05 2011 07:19 nart wrote: It would have been better if the winner of Code A gets a free pass into Code S because winning Code A this season seems like the most difficult thing in Starcraft 2. So many Code A players are of Code S caliber. Winning Code A and have to face any of the players like MVP, Nestea, MKP in the up and down match in order to get into Code S is an impossible task.
I feel bad for the winner of Code A this season.
Bad example. There is no way the winner of Code A will pick any of those players to be in their group, and while the up and down matches are definitely stronger this time around, this probably won't apply to the winner of Code A. They should still have a relatively easy ride into Code S assuming they pick the right people and stay on top of their game.
EDIT: As an example the winner of Code A can pick PoltPrime or TheBestfOu and BanBansZenith for their up/down group, which gives them as good a chance as last season of getting into Code S. The player pool quickly gets much stronger than that though, so if anything this will make the ro8 Code A much more intense because the lower you place the lower your chance of getting out of Code A, whereas last season there were a lot of terrible players to choose from.
On March 05 2011 04:01 Frankon wrote: Well we are talking about Intel GSL and Intel Extreme Masters. Looks like the decision about it was made considering the sponsor. It bring both hype to IEM and GSL. People in Korea will watch the finals of the IEM knowing that the winner is going to up/down code S matches. Also GOM is getting some extra publicity.
But you guys forget the main issue. Its happening once (cause player retired during tournament) and they had to replace his spot. It doesnt mean that next IEM winner would get a ticket to GSL. Its once in a time situation.
this makes complete sense to me both tournament is sponsored by intel and intel want to promote IEM GSL is just listening to their sponsor
omg people, yes the winner could choose "IdrA" and get a free win, but the second person he chooses would also get a free safe in Code S, probably a teammate, and the player who wins IEM is not going to be a slouch, sure they lost in the first round of Code A, but that's one Bo3, and they will have just won a world championship with 5 Bo3's and multiple Bo5's with other Code A players and a Code S player. I still can't believe people can actually complain about this, derp
And it's the updown matches, you know the ones with Fruitdealer MVP NesTea Choya etc. etc, not a free pass to Code S
And also as someone pointed out below, it's the Intel Extreme Masters and the 2nd Generation Intel Core GSL Mar.
I honestly love this decision because it shows that GOM realizes there are other events that are important OUTSIDE of themselves. Most organizations do not do things like this and disregard other events.
I was upset that White-Ra didnt make it out of group play ... and now with this announcement it makes me even sadder
On March 05 2011 07:19 nart wrote: It would have been better if the winner of Code A gets a free pass into Code S because winning Code A this season seems like the most difficult thing in Starcraft 2. So many Code A players are of Code S caliber. Winning Code A and have to face any of the players like MVP, Nestea, MKP in the up and down match in order to get into Code S is an impossible task.
I feel bad for the winner of Code A this season.
The winner and runner up of GSL code A will get to pick their opponents. Isnt that reward enough? They can pick Banbans or someone else who isnt among the strongest code S players. I seriously doubt anyone picks a guy like MVP or Nestea willingly. And every code A player in the Up/down matches has 2 BO3s. Besides, if you cant beat any of the top players in the up/down matches, how can you possibly expect to stay in code S?
Idras spot is a 4th place in his group so the winner of IEM will get 1 chance, ONE BO3. I dont think its unfair at all, and as some people has pointed out, its Intel who is sponsoring the tournaments so obviously GOM will do their best to increase the interest in IEM and GSL. Its a great opportunity for everyone involved.
On March 05 2011 08:54 bkrow wrote: Wouldn't have been surprised to see a foreigner take out IEM there are some strong contenders there..
well, only morrow got out of this group as a foreigner :/ and ace,squirtle,moonglade,moon and idra as korean style :/ so obv foreigners can coming from groups (not winning IEM for sure, it's sounds kinda ridiculous) only when there are free slots in the bracket exactly as it was @ scbw
This is a terrible idea... all of the current IEM competitors lost the first round of Code A <_< They shouldn't be given a free entrance. Giving the Code A winner a free slot is a MUCH better idea considering they beat one of these guys to make it in anyways.
Even though the remaining players left in IEM are good enough for the Up and Down matches, I think this is incredibly unfair and a terrible idea to give the shot to players that lose Code A matches / didn't qualify.
Squirtle got busted already. Moon is going to take this one home. He deserves it, he has been playing magnificently. I haven't seen a single game by ace though. I don't really care if the winner of IEM gets this or that, I just want Moon to win, get more confidence in sc2, enough to quit wc3 altogether, devote himself to sc2 altogether and start the streak of domination.
On March 05 2011 09:22 Figgy wrote: This is a terrible idea... all of the current IEM competitors lost the first round of Code A <_< They shouldn't be given a free entrance. Giving the Code A winner a free slot is a MUCH better idea considering they beat one of these guys to make it in anyways.
That is not a good idea. Idra's slot corresponds to 4th in the group, which gets only 1 BO3 to stay in code S. Why do you think its a good idea to give the winner to code A who gets 2 BO3s + choice of players this place ? Also due to the quality of code S people in up/down there is a good chance that code A winner/runner up will choose the IEM winner. So I think its a good consolation to the winners of IEM where they get 1 BO3 against the top most code A player.
Guys complaining about unfairness: GOM said that they would have rescheduled GSL games that conflicted with IEM for those involved. So there is no 'punishing' people for winning in GSL.
Ace looked so damn solid out there, really reminded me of Mvp's playstyle in GSL January. Nothing fancy, just perfectly executed timing attacks, borderline abusive, making it look easy.
Anyone who goes 13-0 at the IEM World Championships is more than equipped to handle GSL Code S.
On March 05 2011 09:27 Scrandom wrote: Even though the remaining players left in IEM are good enough for the Up and Down matches, I think this is incredibly unfair and a terrible idea to give the shot to players that lose Code A matches / didn't qualify.
Honestly, Gom rewarding Koreans that take the risk and venture out to international tournaments is probably one of the smartest moves they've could've done
Just like their initiative with the Gom house was a great way to encourage foreigner participation in GSL, quick-witted and flexible decisions like this are encouraging Korean participation in international tournaments. This could not send a better message to the Korean players. Good stuff for the international tournament scene.
On March 05 2011 09:21 Phosgene wrote: I hope Moon wins and gets a chance to get into code S!!!
same here, i think he deserves another chance to play the up and downs based on the way hes playing at the IEM. But Ace's timing attacks are damn strong man.. 5th RACE HWAITING!!
The GOMTV player infringes copyright and should be banned from the right-hand bar of this site just like the other 'infringing' streams. Except the mods here don't seem to understand how that works or maybe they don't care. Either way, Gretech is completely corrupt and bs. allegedly.
On March 05 2011 14:19 GhostLink wrote: lol id laugh so hard if idra won IEM too bad he's out already
Spoiler that shit wow, god i hope you get banned.
Anyway. I was going to say it would of been funny if IdrA won. + very cool of Gom to do something like this. Working together with IEM and giving first place a Code S spot.
On March 05 2011 16:12 BetterFasterStronger wrote: + Show Spoiler +
On March 05 2011 14:19 GhostLink wrote: lol id laugh so hard if idra won IEM too bad he's out already
Spoiler that shit wow, god i hope you get banned.
Anyway. I was going to say it would of been funny if IdrA won. + very cool of Gom to do something like this. Working together with IEM and giving first place a Code S spot.
stop whinning plz what else did you expect to read in this thread besides the actual results of the iem rofl. come on use your common sense.
Anyways I hope too see Moon in Code S. ST_Ace didnt really impress me much just abusive 2 base pushes.
both potential IEM winners lost their Ro32 games to players who are already in Ro8
Because of this, I don't see how this rule is unfair to the players who made it to the Ro16 but not Ro8.
Well, the pool of Code S players they might face in the up and down matches looks extremely strong, while the winner of IEM will get an automatic Code as without having to go through those guys.
On March 05 2011 15:57 cromulent wrote: The GOMTV player infringes copyright and should be banned from the right-hand bar of this site just like the other 'infringing' streams. Except the mods here don't seem to understand how that works or maybe they don't care. Either way, Gretech is completely corrupt and bs. allegedly.
On March 05 2011 17:30 Sein wrote: Would have been much better if the winner of Code A gets the automatic Code S spot while the winner of IEM gets a spot in the up and down matches. The only reason those guys could make it to IEM was because they got knocked out of the Code A tournament so early. I think most people would agree that winning GSL5 Code A is a greater achievement than winning IEM.
Total nonsense. The korean players for IEM were chosen BEFORE they lost in code A, they seemed to be the best code A payers at that time. Code A would have been rescheduled by GOM to allow players still competing in code A to play at IEM. It was unfortunate that these players lost in code A, because people are now talking bullshit about their skill. But it had nothing to do with them being able to go to IEM.
Also note that these code A players still placed well above the code S player Idra in IEM. So I dont think its unfair that the best of them gets Idras up and down spot.
On March 05 2011 16:12 smileyyy wrote: Anyway. I was going to say it would of been funny if IdrA won. + very cool of Gom to do something like this. Working together with IEM and giving first place a Code S spot.
20% of these comments could have only come from ppl who didnt actually read the entire post. The winner does not get a Code S spot, only a chance at code S up and down matches as the last place finisher in ro32 code S group matches
**UPDATE** STAce just won 3-2 over FOXMoon in the IEM Championship Finals. After seeing his dominating play in this tournament, I'd say he has a nearly guaranteed spot in Code S after up and downs.
Edit: When asked why Koreans swept the top 3 spots in the tournament, Moon said, "Because Koreans own white dudes." Win.
LOL, this is just GOM trollin' kuz they know Squirtle and Ace are gonna roll the SHIT out of Moonglade and Moon... Because both Squirtle and Ace are already Code S caliber players... Moonglade and Moon? Not so much...
On March 05 2011 16:12 BetterFasterStronger wrote: + Show Spoiler +
On March 05 2011 14:19 GhostLink wrote: lol id laugh so hard if idra won IEM too bad he's out already
Spoiler that shit wow, god i hope you get banned.
Anyway. I was going to say it would of been funny if IdrA won. + very cool of Gom to do something like this. Working together with IEM and giving first place a Code S spot.
Why? He's been out for a couple of days... and wasn't it obvious that they only announced this AFTER they saw that the entire semi-final was made of people who lost first round of Code A?
I don't see why that would need a spoiler
On March 05 2011 15:57 cromulent wrote: The GOMTV player infringes copyright and should be banned from the right-hand bar of this site just like the other 'infringing' streams. Except the mods here don't seem to understand how that works or maybe they don't care. Either way, Gretech is completely corrupt and bs. allegedly.
what? O.O
On March 05 2011 23:18 ShatterZer0 wrote: LOL, this is just GOM trollin' kuz they know Squirtle and Ace are gonna roll the SHIT out of Moonglade and Moon... Because both Squirtle and Ace are already Code S caliber players... Moonglade and Moon? Not so much...
ace played overall a very impressive tournament only losing against moon the 2 games. He really deserves idra's spot in the up/down games. Hopefully he will manage to win. But also Moon did a great job by kicking squirtle out of the tournament. Unfortunately he lost in the final, but if the crowd wouldn't have cheered that loud when he did the awesome nydus build he might have won.
But never the less the whole IEM was very worth watching.
The IEM tournament was really great to watch. The addition to this is a pretty neat way to replace the empty spot. Congratulations to the winner, hopefully he is able to win the code s spot.
On March 06 2011 01:58 ChThoniC wrote: Man. What do you guys think of Moons chances of getting into Code A in 2 seasons? His ZvP is sick.
I'd say low, Moon still has control problems though his strategies are interesting. That being said, at least being able to take games off people like Squirtle and Ace make it seem a little more probable (though technically with anypro advancing through to...ro8 sigh..I guess it doesn't make Moon seem as bad that he lost to him in up/down before).
The unfairness comes from how these 4 players were chosen to compete in IEM. The other 12 Code A players who won't make up/downs this month would probably have done just as well, if only they were invited, since the IEM has made it very clear that top Koreans are way better than top Europeans. It's like picking 4 dropouts from an adult chess tournament to compete in a kids' tournament, and giving the winner a free ride in the adult one.
I think the Code A winner deserves automatic entry much more than the winner of a lesser tournament deserves the chance to qualify (especially since he already lost in Code A this season). The extra third-place-Code-S spot can be given based on past perfomance (so MVP gets to stay in Code S for free). This system is also much more consistent for when people drop out in future.
On March 06 2011 05:03 pirsq wrote: The unfairness comes from how these 4 players were chosen to compete in IEM. The other 12 Code A players who won't make up/downs this month would probably have done just as well, if only they were invited, since the IEM has made it very clear that top Koreans are way better than top Europeans. It's like picking 4 dropouts from an adult chess tournament to compete in a kids' tournament, and giving the winner a free ride in the adult one.
I think the Code A winner deserves automatic entry much more than the winner of a lesser tournament deserves the chance to qualify (especially since he already lost in Code A this season). The extra third-place-Code-S spot can be given based on past perfomance (so MVP gets to stay in Code S for free). This system is also much more consistent for when people drop out in future.
They're getting the 4th place spot in the up and down matches, it's worse for Ace than for those that made the RO8.
On March 05 2011 17:30 Sein wrote: Would have been much better if the winner of Code A gets the automatic Code S spot while the winner of IEM gets a spot in the up and down matches. The only reason those guys could make it to IEM was because they got knocked out of the Code A tournament so early. I think most people would agree that winning GSL5 Code A is a greater achievement than winning IEM.
Total nonsense. The korean players for IEM were chosen BEFORE they lost in code A, they seemed to be the best code A payers at that time. Code A would have been rescheduled by GOM to allow players still competing in code A to play at IEM. It was unfortunate that these players lost in code A, because people are now talking bullshit about their skill. But it had nothing to do with them being able to go to IEM.
Also note that these code A players still placed well above the code S player Idra in IEM. So I dont think its unfair that the best of them gets Idras up and down spot.
source for where you got this information
Idra wanted to attend Dreamhack but was told by GOM that they would not reschedule his GSL match to accommodate Idra, so Idra stayed in Korea
also part of the reason why Idra pulled out of GSL 5 was because he wanted to attend IEM and knew that if the IEM and GOM schedules conflicted with each other, GOM would not alter their schedule for Idra.
On March 05 2011 16:12 BetterFasterStronger wrote: + Show Spoiler +
On March 05 2011 14:19 GhostLink wrote: lol id laugh so hard if idra won IEM too bad he's out already
Spoiler that shit wow, god i hope you get banned.
Anyway. I was going to say it would of been funny if IdrA won. + very cool of Gom to do something like this. Working together with IEM and giving first place a Code S spot.
stop whinning plz what else did you expect to read in this thread besides the actual results of the iem rofl. come on use your common sense.
Anyways I hope too see Moon in Code S. ST_Ace didnt really impress me much just abusive 2 base pushes.
Yearh. Agree. Ace should have done abusive 1 base, abusive 3 base, or abusive 4 base push; instead of abusive 2 base push. huh
On March 05 2011 17:30 Sein wrote: Would have been much better if the winner of Code A gets the automatic Code S spot while the winner of IEM gets a spot in the up and down matches. The only reason those guys could make it to IEM was because they got knocked out of the Code A tournament so early. I think most people would agree that winning GSL5 Code A is a greater achievement than winning IEM.
Total nonsense. The korean players for IEM were chosen BEFORE they lost in code A, they seemed to be the best code A payers at that time. Code A would have been rescheduled by GOM to allow players still competing in code A to play at IEM. It was unfortunate that these players lost in code A, because people are now talking bullshit about their skill. But it had nothing to do with them being able to go to IEM.
Also note that these code A players still placed well above the code S player Idra in IEM. So I dont think its unfair that the best of them gets Idras up and down spot.
source for where you got this information
Idra wanted to attend Dreamhack but was told by GOM that they would not reschedule his GSL match to accommodate Idra, so Idra stayed in Korea
also part of the reason why Idra pulled out of GSL 5 was because he wanted to attend IEM and knew that if the IEM and GOM schedules conflicted with each other, GOM would not alter their schedule for Idra.
On February 22 2011 22:47 Carmac wrote: For those of you who will surely ask "Why don't you invite the players that drop out of GSL?"
The invitation process (=us talking to the players themselves) started around two weeks before the invitations were actually announced. The teams have been booking flights as early as last week. So the date of the announcement is not tied to when we actually invited the players.
Waiting to see if top players would be available after the Ro32 was also not something that we were allowed to do by our logistic limitations (as well as the possibility of skyrocketing flight prices this close to the event).
Oh, and it would be quite rude to tell one of those four players that they can't come because a top player got knocked out of the GSL ;-)
GSL gave the Code A players leeway in terms of agreeing to shuffle their matches around, though were less lenient with their Code S players (if dates clashed and you decided to go to IEM instead of the GSL you'd be auto dropped to Code A (if I understand correctly)). Invites did happen well in advance of their Code A matches actually taking place though.
On March 06 2011 09:11 infinity2k9 wrote: Isn't this unfair to people already in the GSL? This tournament isn't even connected.
It is to replace Idra and since Idra is playing in this tournament whoever wins is probably deserving of Idra's spot no? Unfair to the others? There is only 1IEM up/down spot where as there are plenty of up/down matches for those at the top of Code A, if they cannot get one of those numerous spots then they're just SOL till next season.
i have never understood why the winner of code a doesnt get to compete in the code s tournament in the same season and instead has to wait until next season.
* It's unfair, obviously 4 people who lost in Code A are given a shot at qualifying again when everyone else in Code A only gets one shot.
* that said it's no more unfair than any invitational slot in any tournament, so I don't see what the fuss is about. The slot is still worth less than the actual Code A up/down spots.
It's unfair because it's a much weaker tournament than Code A. Getting top 8 in Code A is much harder because you are facing the top 16-32 players in Korea, most of which still outskill by a good margin all of the top foreigners.
A lot of the Code A players not only had to qualify through the Code B tournament just to qualify for Code A, which is arguably a lot harder than IEM in the first place, but also had to come Top 8 in Code A to earn their shot at Code S. The winner of IEM gets to skip Code B and Code A altogether and get to go straight to the up and down matches through a much easier (imo) means. Hell, who here seriously thinks Moon is actually going to re-enter Code A next season and then proceed to get top 8? No one. He only looks good in these matches because most of his opponents are sub-par compared to most of Code A and Code S.
Also keep in mind that the winner of IEM gets a guaranteed Code A spot next season just for being in the up/down dispite losing in the first round.
Lets talk about performance. Moon's & Ace's performance in this IEM is undisputedly as good as up/down players like Losira/Huk/Virus/etc and definitely better than some Code S Ro16 like tester/sc/lyn/anypro. They are that good and surely deserve a chance at code S relegation match. Other code A dropout can only blame their status not being as famous as Moon (legendary) or Ace/Squirtle (GSTL performance) to get invited
On March 06 2011 20:16 Arceus wrote: Lets talk about performance. Moon's & Ace's performance in this IEM is undisputedly as good as up/down players like Losira/Huk/Virus/etc and definitely better than some Code S Ro16 like tester/sc/lyn/anypro. They are that good and surely deserve a chance at code S relegation match. Other code A dropout can only blame their status not being as famous as Moon (legendary) or Ace/Squirtle (GSTL performance) to get invited
The key point is, IEM is a much easier tournament compared to GSL code S/A and even code B, so you can NOT simply compare moon's performance in IEM to tester's in GSL code S. You know, as a Master player, I always perform like a gaming lord when facing silver/bronze players, but just turn into totally shit when playing against semi-pros.
On March 06 2011 14:29 jeremysaint wrote: i have never understood why the winner of code a doesnt get to compete in the code s tournament in the same season and instead has to wait until next season.
probably because the code A final is played just after the code S semifinal and I dont think it will make sense to have the code A winner playing immediately in a three way code S final
On March 07 2011 04:39 PhantomHybrid wrote: I wish Squirtle had done it but Ace is pretty damn awsome too.
IEM showed that squirtle was overhyped and ace is the far better player. Squirtle did not look good at iem at all. The hype came from that 1 mvp game, cause even though he did an all kill earlier he did not look impressive making a lot of mistakes such as zealots in the back that artosis was pointing out. Ace looks code s worthy, while squirtle looks code a worthy.
here is my question. What if the person who wins IEM isnt Korean and does not want to go to Korea to be in code S? i assume there are still people in IEM who could fit into this, sadly i have not been following IEM and dont know so i could be wrong
On March 07 2011 08:19 Deathmanbob wrote: here is my question. What if the person who wins IEM isnt Korean and does not want to go to Korea to be in code S? i assume there are still people in IEM who could fit into this, sadly i have not been following IEM and dont know so i could be wrong
On March 07 2011 08:19 Deathmanbob wrote: here is my question. What if the person who wins IEM isnt Korean and does not want to go to Korea to be in code S? i assume there are still people in IEM who could fit into this, sadly i have not been following IEM and dont know so i could be wrong
On March 07 2011 08:19 Deathmanbob wrote: here is my question. What if the person who wins IEM isnt Korean and does not want to go to Korea to be in code S? i assume there are still people in IEM who could fit into this, sadly i have not been following IEM and dont know so i could be wrong
It wasn't even announced until the 4 remaining players were gsl players. So it was a last minute decision based on how IEM was going. The winner was guaranteed to be a gsl player as it was squirtle, moon, ace and moonglade left once they announced it. It wasn't a preplanned decision.
On March 07 2011 04:39 PhantomHybrid wrote: I wish Squirtle had done it but Ace is pretty damn awsome too.
IEM showed that squirtle was overhyped and ace is the far better player. Squirtle did not look good at iem at all. The hype came from that 1 mvp game, cause even though he did an all kill earlier he did not look impressive making a lot of mistakes such as zealots in the back that artosis was pointing out. Ace looks code s worthy, while squirtle looks code a worthy.
Yeah he really is over hyped. All-Killing a team and then beating MVP and then placing high at IEM... pfft god that guy is so bad.
On March 07 2011 04:39 PhantomHybrid wrote: I wish Squirtle had done it but Ace is pretty damn awsome too.
IEM showed that squirtle was overhyped and ace is the far better player. Squirtle did not look good at iem at all. The hype came from that 1 mvp game, cause even though he did an all kill earlier he did not look impressive making a lot of mistakes such as zealots in the back that artosis was pointing out. Ace looks code s worthy, while squirtle looks code a worthy.
Yeah he really is over hyped. All-Killing a team and then beating MVP and then placing high at IEM... pfft god that guy is so bad.
I know right Squirtle is just such a loser... Hope I get in his group when I tear through Group A of GSL cause I hear that's pretty easy as well.
I need a cigarette after all that sarcasm.
I like the idea of IEM invites for the GSL, it is the GLOBAL Star League after all.
Even though this is incredibly unfair to all the players who beat those Code A people and thus had to continue the GSL without any time for the IEM, I still like this move, assuming that they will continue with giving high seeds to the champions of top foreign tournaments. And that's because this also sends a signal to all the korean players: if you go out into the world and play well in the big tournaments, we (the gsl team) will award you for your dedication and the active role you are playing in the global starcraft scene.
I really hate this move! Giving someone the chance to compete for a spot in Code S just based on a random INVITE to an other tournament is really silly...
On March 07 2011 20:26 JustPassingBy wrote: Even though this is incredibly unfair to all the players who beat those Code A people and thus had to continue the GSL without any time for the IEM, I still like this move, assuming that they will continue with giving high seeds to the champions of top foreign tournaments. And that's because this also sends a signal to all the korean players: if you go out into the world and play well in the big tournaments, we (the gsl team) will award you for your dedication and the active role you are playing in the global starcraft scene.
This was only a 1 time deal cause Idra left. So this situation will never come up again unless someone quits code s like idra.
On March 07 2011 22:16 Kerl wrote: I really hate this move! Giving someone the chance to compete for a spot in Code S just based on a random INVITE to an other tournament is really silly...
Well it's similar to how GSL also had the 3 (or was it 4?) foreigner invites for Code A this season. I kinda see it as them trying to link together all the separate tournaments being held around the world, and I really like it.
Idra should not have left the gsl. and is now out of luck losing the IEM, I was thinking that he left to go and win the IEM but failed and is now out of 2 tournaments. :/ but ya i donno..
Idra left the GSL to participate in the NASL, and various other tournaments happening in the US/Europe at the same time. GSL and Gom were very restricting on where else their code S players had time to play, so it turned into a "you lose GSL, you wait for the next one" type deal instead of having something else to do in the downtime. I'd call it a good decision.
I'd also wonder why everyone is saying how "easy" IEM was compared to Code A when idra was a very solid Code S player, and didn't even make the semis.
On March 09 2011 11:30 phyre112 wrote: Idra left the GSL to participate in the NASL, and various other tournaments happening in the US/Europe at the same time. GSL and Gom were very restricting on where else their code S players had time to play, so it turned into a "you lose GSL, you wait for the next one" type deal instead of having something else to do in the downtime. I'd call it a good decision.
I'd also wonder why everyone is saying how "easy" IEM was compared to Code A when idra was a very solid Code S player, and didn't even make the semis.
IdrA lost to Ace, a korean player originally from GSL, whom IdrA said was probably the one person who would knock him out before IEM started.
It can't really be disputed that IEM < Code A, I know it's fun to watch Europeans play but the fact of the matter is the skill level just isn't there - yet.
On March 09 2011 11:30 phyre112 wrote: Idra left the GSL to participate in the NASL, and various other tournaments happening in the US/Europe at the same time. GSL and Gom were very restricting on where else their code S players had time to play, so it turned into a "you lose GSL, you wait for the next one" type deal instead of having something else to do in the downtime. I'd call it a good decision.
I'd also wonder why everyone is saying how "easy" IEM was compared to Code A when idra was a very solid Code S player, and didn't even make the semis.
IdrA lost to Ace, a korean player originally from GSL, whom IdrA said was probably the one person who would knock him out before IEM started.
It can't really be disputed that IEM < Code A, I know it's fun to watch Europeans play but the fact of the matter is the skill level just isn't there - yet.
And idrA's personality is such that he regularly makes such statements, and they turn out to be only 80% true. Fact remains that a Code S players lost in the tournament - the Code S player who's spot is up for grabs here - and that stands for something as far as whether or not these guys deserve the chance.
After watching his performance in korea and europe, I think he's the player with the most potential. He can beat everyone in the GSL, no one deserves the Code S spot more than him imo.
On March 09 2011 11:30 phyre112 wrote: Idra left the GSL to participate in the NASL, and various other tournaments happening in the US/Europe at the same time. GSL and Gom were very restricting on where else their code S players had time to play, so it turned into a "you lose GSL, you wait for the next one" type deal instead of having something else to do in the downtime. I'd call it a good decision.
Really? So which "various other tournaments" which Idra attented where happening during this GSL season? Right, none besides IEM. The only reason for Idra to leave GSL before and not after this season had to be IEM.
On March 10 2011 00:12 sp00kZ wrote: After watching his performance in korea and europe, I think he's the player with the most potential. He can beat everyone in the GSL, no one deserves the Code S spot more than him imo.
I assume you are talking about Ace, and I agree. He has been so overshadowed by his other teammates who are in the same boat as him (Bomber and Squirtle both being considered very good players yet under performing as Ace is) but he feels to be more solid than the other two from what I have seen. I really think he is deserve of Code S (as well as his teammates) so I hope he can get in from this opportunity. Also, I like his personality from his interviews. I really hope he does well.
St_ACe Fighting!!! I completely hate most Protoss players, but Ace is just awesome. Lots of confidence, a great personality, and just an handsome fella. Make it to Code S Ace! Startale Hwaiting!
EPT
?
all of them lost in the first round of Code A, totally outclassed in their games, and now they could see themselves in Code S. Not fair to the players of Code A who beat them in my opinion.
