Translation We recognized the problem, so now we have a plan to reinforce sound curtain and change headset device.
Players felt uncomfortable about soundproofing earset and headset, and pointed out sound curtain is too big. So we have used only headset without an earset and eased sound curtain. Behind of Jinro's booth, there is a speaker. All these circumstances made the issue today.
There will be no rematch between Jinro and Idra. No progamers raised an objection and it is difficult to say Jinro was able to hold that game due to this soundproofing issue.(If Jinro noticed it was 6 pool, he could block the entrance)
Sorry for the issue. GomTV warned themselves for the issue, and that warning will never expire.*
*GomTV can officially warn a player as a host if the player violates a rule or something. At this time, GomTV officially warned themselves.
UPDATE 1 17:00 22 Jan 2011 KST GomTV edited official Jinro's interview to remove Jinro's soundproofing issue statement. I posted a thread about this interview censoring issue on GSL Korean official site, and still got no answer from staffs.
well lets be honest it didnt help him, he scouted a bit earlier, but missed the lings/drones on the way only seeing 1 drone going, which means nothing. the first he knew of it was when the lings were in his base
good to see it addressed! Also nice to see they recognized that it didn't give jinro and particular advantage in this case (though it is still a problem) because of the strategies implemented (lack of a wall off).
On January 20 2011 02:40 L3g3nd_ wrote: well lets be honest it didnt help him, he scouted a bit earlier, but missed the lings/drones on the way only seeing 1 drone going, which means nothing. the first he knew of it was when the lings were in his base
in this case doesn't matter.
but imagine if some other times korean players heard units/build orders.
they need to be 100% sure nothing effects their gameplay
On January 20 2011 02:40 L3g3nd_ wrote: well lets be honest it didnt help him, he scouted a bit earlier, but missed the lings/drones on the way only seeing 1 drone going, which means nothing. the first he knew of it was when the lings were in his base
in this case doesn't matter.
but imagine if some other times korean players heard units/build orders.
they need to be 100% sure nothing effects their gameplay
thing is there have been issues since season 1.... but the only time it gets any attention is when the 2 foreigners are duking it out and can't understand what is being said anyways ;p
and I'm sure idra knows that he didn't lose because jinro heard an "oooh" and if he is that petty then really he needs to see someone about anger management. If jinro had immediately walled in, i would be on idra's side, but he didn't and the commentators had nothing to do with Jinro winning the game
On January 20 2011 02:40 L3g3nd_ wrote: well lets be honest it didnt help him, he scouted a bit earlier, but missed the lings/drones on the way only seeing 1 drone going, which means nothing. the first he knew of it was when the lings were in his base
Yeah, if anything, it put Jinro a little bit behind.
But, yeah, GOM should reinforce the booth and change headphones.
In my opinion it took a lot of courage to actually mention this in an interview after the game. Knowing the impact this could have, people calling him a cheater and what not.
On January 20 2011 03:22 Ancient.eu wrote: Baller ? No. Just childish.
What? Childish for being ( from the best of my knowledge ) the first person to comment on the sound problem? And it's not like he gained any useful information from the sounds at the time.
On January 20 2011 02:42 oPPRoBe wrote: That's pretty cool. They should get sponsored by BOSE to get those nice noise-canceling headphones.
I wonder how idra feels about having no rematch...
Just like to point out that noise-cancelling does not work this way. Noise cancellling is only effective against constant, very specific frequencies. BOSE for instance make headphones designed for travel use. They will block out constant noise like say, aircraft engines, train ambience etc. They are not particularly effective against speech, which produces very broad frequency sounds. They may reduce the volume of it certainly, but they cannot cancel it entirely, or even by a reasonable amount.
On January 20 2011 02:32 Xeph wrote: We recognized the problem, so now we have a plan to reinforce sound curtain and change headset device.
Players felt uncomfortable about soundproofing earset and headset and pointed out sound curtain is too big. So we have used only headset without an earset and eased sound curtain. Behind of Jinro's booth, there is a speaker. All these circumstances made the issue today.
I'm confused by "sound curtain is too big". If it's some sort of baffling around the booth it doesn't make sense that players would care how big it is. Maybe it's that curtain over the door in the back of the booth? If that was too big it would be annoying to get in/out of the booth I suppose.
I saw some interviews where some players explained they blast music in the booth to drown out the noise of the crowd/commentators. Anyone have a link to that or more info about it?
Also they mention there is a speaker behind Jinro's booth, so I guess they mean they will move the studio speakers around so they aren't blasting the studio sound right at the booths (oops!).
If he wanted to address the issue he should have spoken with the officials after the game, let them know the situation and fix it, not say it in an interview, create doubt about the match and about Gom's professionalism.
On January 20 2011 03:25 Ancient.eu wrote: If he wanted to address the issue he should have spoken with the officials after the game, let them know the situation and fix it, not say it in an interview, create doubt about the match and about Gom's professionalism.
I agree, but keep in mind. He just finished his game and and probably was full of adrenalin and still happy about the win. He started to swear again and I bet he did not think about everything he said.
I think that is was a very good call by GOM. While the noise definetly triggered Jinro I dont think it was the deciding factor in the match. By the looks of it Jinro would have taken it anyway.
Good to see the issue adressed and an official statement about it.
I'll never forget artosis's face when Jinro said "I heard the announcers go "OOOOOOO"" I hope MLG takes this seriously as well. I remember TTone saying at the last MLG that he was afraid to 4 gate or stargate because it was so easy to pick out them saying "4 gate" or "Stargate" among all the noise, because the players could hear the commentators.
On January 20 2011 03:25 Ancient.eu wrote: If he wanted to address the issue he should have spoken with the officials after the game, let them know the situation and fix it, not say it in an interview, create doubt about the match and about Gom's professionalism.
Doesn't matter.
The only way to deal with these things is complete transparency or else your image and support is ruined.
I would bet money that the only reason Jinro even mentioned it in the interview, is because it had no effect upon his play what-so-ever. Its not like he got to make a hard wall-in due to overhearing info.
Regardless that it was 'exposed' as a flaw, and had no change or effect upon the game it happened, everyone is fortunate. If this had happened instead with a DT rush in the semi-finals in the middle of a tied series on a fair map it would have been seriously worse.
As far as outcomes could go, this is as good as it could have been.
Because of the interview action might now be taken to resolve the soundproofing issue which by all accounts is known and brushed under the carpet. I recall an Idra interview (don't know when, sorry) where he said he could sometimes hear the commentators, but it didn't really matter to him because he couldn't make out what they were saying.
You don't have to speak any language to understand excitement that early on in the game.
On January 20 2011 02:42 oPPRoBe wrote: That's pretty cool. They should get sponsored by BOSE to get those nice noise-canceling headphones.
I wonder how idra feels about having no rematch...
Just like to point out that noise-cancelling does not work this way. Noise cancellling is only effective against constant, very specific frequencies. BOSE for instance make headphones designed for travel use. They will block out constant noise like say, aircraft engines, train ambience etc. They are not particularly effective against speech, which produces very broad frequency sounds. They may reduce the volume of it certainly, but they cannot cancel it entirely, or even by a reasonable amount.
So what can you do for noise cancelling? How do they do it in BW ? Can't you use in-ear phones for the starcraft sounds and put attenuators above that?
On January 20 2011 03:31 andytb wrote: Because of the interview action might now be taken to resolve the soundproofing issue which by all accounts is known and brushed under the carpet. I recall an Idra interview (don't know when, sorry) where he said he could sometimes hear the commentators, but it didn't really matter to him because he couldn't make out what they were saying.
You don't have to speak any language to understand excitement that early on in the game.
But a korean player who can understand what they are saying could definitely hear something that could win them the game.
On January 20 2011 03:28 Liam wrote: I agree, but keep in mind. He just finished his game and and probably was full of adrenalin and still happy about the win. He started to swear again and I bet he did not think about everything he said.
Oh, of course, he was very excited and in that excitement it slipped that he had heard something.
That is why I said it he was a bit like a child, overexcited.
On January 20 2011 03:29 Reborn8u wrote: I'll never forget artosis's face when Jinro said "I heard the announcers go "OOOOOOO"" I hope MLG takes this seriously as well. I remember TTone saying at the last MLG that he was afraid to 4 gate or stargate because it was so easy to pick out them saying "4 gate" or "Stargate" among all the noise, because the players could hear the commentators.
Lol i wanted to re-watch the interview cause i missed artosis's face. However jinro's interview isn't even up on GomTv.net.
On January 20 2011 03:29 Reborn8u wrote: I'll never forget artosis's face when Jinro said "I heard the announcers go "OOOOOOO"" I hope MLG takes this seriously as well. I remember TTone saying at the last MLG that he was afraid to 4 gate or stargate because it was so easy to pick out them saying "4 gate" or "Stargate" among all the noise, because the players could hear the commentators.
Lol i wanted to re-watch the interview cause i missed artosis's face. However jinro's interview isn't even up on GomTv.net.
I couldn't find it either when I looked at the gomcam video list, but then I saw that someone on teamliquid posted that link. He said that the video was up but the list didn't have it. He was right.
btw Jinro being able to hear excited, though certainly incomprehensible, announcers seems small compared to the way Artosis and Tasteless describe chinese tournaments.
On January 20 2011 02:40 L3g3nd_ wrote: well lets be honest it didnt help him, he scouted a bit earlier, but missed the lings/drones on the way only seeing 1 drone going, which means nothing. the first he knew of it was when the lings were in his base
Seeing the drone actually made me go "oh I guess they said oooh about something else then".
On January 20 2011 03:25 Ancient.eu wrote: If he wanted to address the issue he should have spoken with the officials after the game, let them know the situation and fix it, not say it in an interview, create doubt about the match and about Gom's professionalism.
I agree, but keep in mind. He just finished his game and and probably was full of adrenalin and still happy about the win. He started to swear again and I bet he did not think about everything he said.
Correct, and I also agree with Ancient - I just did not view the situation from anything but the perspective of myself, idra, and people watching.
On January 20 2011 02:42 oPPRoBe wrote: That's pretty cool. They should get sponsored by BOSE to get those nice noise-canceling headphones.
I wonder how idra feels about having no rematch...
Just like to point out that noise-cancelling does not work this way. Noise cancellling is only effective against constant, very specific frequencies. BOSE for instance make headphones designed for travel use. They will block out constant noise like say, aircraft engines, train ambience etc. They are not particularly effective against speech, which produces very broad frequency sounds. They may reduce the volume of it certainly, but they cannot cancel it entirely, or even by a reasonable amount.
So what can you do for noise cancelling? How do they do it in BW ? Can't you use in-ear phones for the starcraft sounds and put attenuators above that?
They have noise-canceling headphones and the booths have an actual door instead of a curtain
I wonder if this "sound proofing issue" has been there for a long time... Jinro might not be the first player to hear things. Just first to comment on it.
On January 20 2011 03:50 MDew wrote: Is it really necessary to have the players in the same room as the audience?
Can't they just put the boots far apart, and have a camera on the players that is broadcasted to the audience with the game screen?
It probably wouldn't matter for Americans but AFAIK Koreans love the idea of having the stage and the players dueling it out under a bunch of multicolored lights. Hell just look at Japanese MMA compared to American MMA in terms of the fanfare and entrances. Different cultures. The players need to be with the audience.
I thought Jinro saw the reinforcing lings, but I guess by that point, it was too late anyways.
Also, you can't really argue that Jinro hearing the commentators didn't have an effect in the game. Like he said, he canceled the marine, whether or not it was on purpose, and that messed up IdrA's timing to surround. The marine therefore survived, and IdrA lost the game.
I'd argue that that's pretty game changing although Jinro didn't wall-in right away.
On January 20 2011 02:42 oPPRoBe wrote: That's pretty cool. They should get sponsored by BOSE to get those nice noise-canceling headphones.
I wonder how idra feels about having no rematch...
Just like to point out that noise-cancelling does not work this way. Noise cancellling is only effective against constant, very specific frequencies. BOSE for instance make headphones designed for travel use. They will block out constant noise like say, aircraft engines, train ambience etc. They are not particularly effective against speech, which produces very broad frequency sounds. They may reduce the volume of it certainly, but they cannot cancel it entirely, or even by a reasonable amount.
Man, they should give total biscuit a GSL championship trophy for this post... truly awesome, keep up the good work. Who needs oGsMC when we have totalbiscuit
On January 20 2011 02:40 L3g3nd_ wrote: well lets be honest it didnt help him, he scouted a bit earlier, but missed the lings/drones on the way only seeing 1 drone going, which means nothing. the first he knew of it was when the lings were in his base
Seeing the drone actually made me go "oh I guess they said oooh about something else then".
On January 20 2011 03:25 Ancient.eu wrote: If he wanted to address the issue he should have spoken with the officials after the game, let them know the situation and fix it, not say it in an interview, create doubt about the match and about Gom's professionalism.
I agree, but keep in mind. He just finished his game and and probably was full of adrenalin and still happy about the win. He started to swear again and I bet he did not think about everything he said.
Correct, and I also agree with Ancient - I just did not view the situation from anything but the perspective of myself, idra, and people watching.
I LOVE the fact that Jinro himself comes and tells the community himself. Good luck sir and best of luck in the RO4.
i wouldn't have expected so much of the community to go and do this blowing shit out of proportion bullcrap over a slightly controversial, but actually straight-forward situation which was brought up and addressed within a very short time span
1. there was no advantage on jinro's or idra's side for whatever they might've overheard seeing how the match went down. it might've helped in the 4th set, and it's true that even if it didn't in effect, the mere possibility of this happening is of concern, however, see point 3
2. jinro was awesome for calling the issue out, though it looked like negligence under the effect of the endorphins running through his brain as a consequence of his win
3. gom responded with great professionalism, swiftly and concisely. i think they responded as they should have and saved face. in the end, problems like these occur everywhere and what matters is the way they are handled, and gom did a great job [so far; waiting on a timely effective followup to their statements on this issue]
On January 20 2011 04:00 CanucksJC wrote: I thought Jinro saw the reinforcing lings, but I guess by that point, it was too late anyways.
Also, you can't really argue that Jinro hearing the commentators didn't have an effect in the game. Like he said, he canceled the marine, whether or not it was on purpose, and that messed up IdrA's timing to surround. The marine therefore survived, and IdrA lost the game.
I'd argue that that's pretty game changing although Jinro didn't wall-in right away.
Tough break for IdrA IMO.
he said in the interview that he cancelled the marine while trying to cancel the 2nd barracks while the drones and lings were already in his base(rewatch the vod, the cancel for the barracks is about 10 seconds after the lings and drones get into the base... that's just a misclick, in no way did knowing about a 6pool from crowd noise affect his decision there
On January 20 2011 04:00 CanucksJC wrote: I thought Jinro saw the reinforcing lings, but I guess by that point, it was too late anyways.
Also, you can't really argue that Jinro hearing the commentators didn't have an effect in the game. Like he said, he canceled the marine, whether or not it was on purpose, and that messed up IdrA's timing to surround. The marine therefore survived, and IdrA lost the game.
I'd argue that that's pretty game changing although Jinro didn't wall-in right away.
Tough break for IdrA IMO.
he said in the interview that he cancelled the marine while trying to cancel the 2nd barracks while the drones and lings were already in his base(rewatch the vod, the cancel for the barracks is about 10 seconds after the lings and drones get into the base... that's just a misclick, in no way did knowing about a 6pool from crowd noise affect his decision there
Actually now that I think about it, all this was after he saw the lings. scratch what i said
On January 20 2011 02:40 L3g3nd_ wrote: well lets be honest it didnt help him, he scouted a bit earlier, but missed the lings/drones on the way only seeing 1 drone going, which means nothing. the first he knew of it was when the lings were in his base
Seeing the drone actually made me go "oh I guess they said oooh about something else then".
On January 20 2011 03:25 Ancient.eu wrote: If he wanted to address the issue he should have spoken with the officials after the game, let them know the situation and fix it, not say it in an interview, create doubt about the match and about Gom's professionalism.
I agree, but keep in mind. He just finished his game and and probably was full of adrenalin and still happy about the win. He started to swear again and I bet he did not think about everything he said.
Correct, and I also agree with Ancient - I just did not view the situation from anything but the perspective of myself, idra, and people watching.
I almost think that while it may have been more professional to withhold that for the officials, it also showed quite a huge bit of humility and honesty to admit it publicly.
Additionally, it also would seem to nullify any argument that could be made about you attempting to hide the fact you heard something, if the news came out later from some other source (ie. some friend you told, someone overhearing something, an official leaking the news, that kind of stuff).
Thus in the moment, it would seem best to clear the air immediately and get everything out of the way.
But of course, Ancient is right in the long run. I think its just a tad bit more difficult to have that kind of wisdom when you're caught up in the moment and you have a conscience that might be telling you to be honest about what you might have heard.
On personal level its a much better feeling to clear the air right away and be forthcoming and honest. There has to be a point when you put that above GOM or whoever else... I think Jinro handled it perfectly and I dont think its fair to ask him to handle it any other way.
While this could at best provide a very minor advantage if the situation and mental interpretations align, I do think it odd that no one mentioned there was at least some sound leaking through prior to this.
On January 20 2011 04:13 SwiFt wrote: I bet more ppl heard the crowd and commentators. So Jinro was the first one being honest about it
This is what I was thinking. How many other players have heard it, but never said anything? At least he said something about it. Great matches though.
I don't think him hearing the commentators impacted the game at all, but it is an issue that GOM wants to fix right away. With the finals coming up, you know its louder and more plays will be given away if it's not fixed.
It's great they are addressing the issue so quickly. Makes you wonder how many of the Korean gamers, that actually understand what is being said, have been using such a sound leak to their own advantage without telling anyone. Props to Jinro for bringing the issue into the light (and being upfront about it) and gomTV for following through.
Wow that is pretty big of GOM to address this issue. I have never regretted a single season I have bought and they just keep making it better and responding and fixing issues as needed.
Nice to hear they're going to adjust accordingly to that issue.
And yeah, in this case it wasn't too big of a deal except perhaps for Jinro's mindset, what do I know. But even though the early SCV had a ling within vision range for a very short moment Jinro didn't have focus on it anymore and thus didn't see it.
As someone else said, he would've walled in immediately in that case.
I missed the interview but I'm glag Gom will address the issue and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet but Jinro since if it happened to him it may have happened to others.
HuK's mothership at MLG was probably the most obvious moment of a crowd giving away info. It's kind of hard to tell an excited crowd to be quiet, and ruins the fun of a live event you spent a lot of money to attend. I am just glad we're not accepting this as "part of the game." See "flopping/NBA."
Just a couple days ago on BBC, I heard an interesting report about noise canceling headphones under development that will be used to suppress the noise of the dreaded dentist drill.
Jinro is such a good example of a, I don't know, awesome human being (??) for confessing.
Also, it doesn't matter that this issue didn't change the outcome, the fact is that it COULD'VE. Awesome of Gom to acknowledge the issue, w/o wasting time.I wonder what KeSPa would have done...
On January 20 2011 02:42 oPPRoBe wrote: That's pretty cool. They should get sponsored by BOSE to get those nice noise-canceling headphones.
I wonder how idra feels about having no rematch...
Just like to point out that noise-cancelling does not work this way. Noise cancellling is only effective against constant, very specific frequencies. BOSE for instance make headphones designed for travel use. They will block out constant noise like say, aircraft engines, train ambience etc. They are not particularly effective against speech, which produces very broad frequency sounds. They may reduce the volume of it certainly, but they cannot cancel it entirely, or even by a reasonable amount.
So what can you do for noise cancelling? How do they do it in BW ? Can't you use in-ear phones for the starcraft sounds and put attenuators above that?
Heavy sound-isolating headgear over in-ears, in as sound-proof a booth as you can get, with loud in-game sounds. As far as I'm aware, the over-ear headgear is NOT active, it's just very heavily padded, the same kind of thing you'd get on a building site. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
For the people suggesting that they enclose the booths with doors and what not. Wouldn't that marginalize the air flow and lead to potential overheating, especially during longer stretches of play? Or are the computers outside the booth and connect to the player via long cables?
yeah currently in the scbw booths that's what they do. they allow the players to wear regular earphones since that's what they're used to for listening to the games, but then they wear large padded (presumably noise cancelling) headphones that cover over their ears to help, then they are in the booth which has a door and not just a curtain, but often times has a sound curtain draped over the back of them to deaden any other additional noise. I think the thing GOM is talking about is that players might've not felt comfortable wearing the extra gear, and having the heavy sound curtain to get in and out of the booth. Guess they'll have to go forward with it to keep the integrity of the game sound.
On January 20 2011 02:42 oPPRoBe wrote: I wonder how idra feels about having no rematch...
No need. Even though Jinro confessed, he also admitted to dismissing it because he only saw a scouting drone. It had no outcome of the game. Luckily this is addressed early before it actually becomes a game changing issue.
I remember watching a WCG finals where the players could hear everything the commentators were saying, so the commentators would try to hide their meaning while saying things like: "see this building over here? that's VERY interesting what he's doing"
lol
then the OLD OSL/MSLs where the players were not sitting in sound proof boxes, and the audience and commentators could totally spoil everything..
and here we have people making a big deal about Jinro being honest about something that isn't his fault? tsk tsk
I think its good that both players played fair. Idra could have contested but he chose not to.
Jinro did nothing wrong. Theres nothing he could have done to not hear what he said "the room went oohhh and the commentators were going nuts" but he obviously didnt speak korean so didnt know it was 6pool, and all he knew to do was to scout which didnt change much anyways, as his scout still got there after the lings had left(and idra smartly avoided the scout with his lings and drones)
I had some beef with Jinro over the 6 pool and all that, but if IdrA chose not to contest that match, there is really nothing else to be said about it.
As far as I know SCBW on top of the headphones also plays loud music in the booth to obscure the rest of the outside noise(Boxer previouslcy complained about the loud music )
With the music playing in the background when in a booth it actually makes alot of sense why some players, on their stream, play music so loud like Huk and Idra e.g.
On January 20 2011 05:12 Neddal wrote: Well handled by Jinro (for being so honest), by Gom (for addressing it so quickly) and by IdrA (for not making a big problem out of it).
Hope they will fix the problem quickly tho
Agreed. I don't think Idra is given enough credit here.
Though he's probably more pissed off about the maps than the commentator/crowd noise.
On January 20 2011 04:00 CanucksJC wrote: I thought Jinro saw the reinforcing lings, but I guess by that point, it was too late anyways.
Also, you can't really argue that Jinro hearing the commentators didn't have an effect in the game. Like he said, he canceled the marine, whether or not it was on purpose, and that messed up IdrA's timing to surround. The marine therefore survived, and IdrA lost the game.
I'd argue that that's pretty game changing although Jinro didn't wall-in right away.
Tough break for IdrA IMO.
Rewatch the stream.
Jinro cancelled the marine by accident when the lings got to his base, not before that. It happened when he was going to cancel his 2nd rax, but I guess he accidently selected the first barrack by mistake, hit escape, and then realising his building didn't get cancelled, so he did it again. You can see in the vod exactly when the marine timer was reset, it was at the 00:01:49 mark in the VOD, just as the zerglings had gotten a surround on the unfinished barrack.
I can't see how hearing the commentators roughly 1½ minutes earlier go "OOoooh" had anything to do with that.
As Artosis described it, Idra's plan was a good one. It was unanticipated and would have worked had that 5hp marine not survived. Jinro won that game partly out of luck and partly because of excellent decision making that allowed him to defend the area by his minerals.
Was the "ooooh" inappropriate? Yes, but it is evident that it didn't factor into Idra's loss. Obviously, feelings are a riding a little high since these are the 2 foreigners in Code S and we wish they could both get to the top. We can only wish that the players are better distributed next season and that people don't have to face team kills as much.
@TB: About noise cancelling headphones: wow, I didn't know that. High quality earbuds would be highly effective, but then its a question of cost, hygiene (if shared), comfort and reliability, as it is more difficult to make sure someone REALLY has a good seal.
I'm pretty impressed with Gom for actually addressing the issue ... not that that's really something that's too impressive, but I don't expect any sort of transparency out of most companies/organizers.
I'm happy that GomTV addresses the problem, but I don't think it's as huge as some ppl make it out to be...
In China, WarcraftIII-Players heard the commentators in almost every Major event, with foreigners not understanding anything but Chinese Players almost everything the commentators said, compared to that, hearing some noise of excited ppl is nothing.
And I don't think Jinro cheated in any way, shape or form and I think it's very well-mannered of him to address the Problem.
On January 20 2011 05:43 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: For the people suggesting that they enclose the booths with doors and what not. Wouldn't that marginalize the air flow and lead to potential overheating, especially during longer stretches of play? Or are the computers outside the booth and connect to the player via long cables?
Somehow mankind has overcome this problem in houses and rooms. I'm sure GOM can somehow, some way find a way to mitigate this problem.
Jinro put himself out there by being honest. He probably knew that people would call him a cheater for it or undeserving of the win. It could even affect whether or not there should be a re-game. To be honest, this is the best situation that something like this could happen in. It was in a match that was a pretty big deal and it didn't affect the outcome of the game. Players always say that they can hear the commentators at public events, but no one ever makes really big changes.
EDIT: Like someone else said before, yea Jinro could've spoken directly to someone about the issue, but when you do something like announce it in an interview and get people talking, you have a better chance of something being done about the issue.
Gotta say... that entire game came down to Jinro getting that 1 hp Marine into the bunker, which was 100% luck to begin with. I feel like if Jinro wasn't prepared for the 6 pool from the announcers, he might not have had the presence of mind during that micro battle to save that extra 1 hit. Hard to say, but its obvious it would have been at least somewhat different without the extra 20+ seconds of preparation Jinro had to prepare and think it over.
All you people saying it didn't effect anything are clearly biased fanboys. Don't show your ignorance saying this is not an issue.
In any other sport you are not allowed inside the huddle of the enemy team, you are not allowed to look into there play book, nothing of the sort.
On January 20 2011 08:42 gregnog wrote: Gotta say... that entire game came down to Jinro getting that 1 hp Marine into the bunker, which was 100% luck to begin with. I feel like if Jinro wasn't prepared for the 6 pool from the announcers, he might not have had the presence of mind during that micro battle to save that extra 1 hit. Hard to say, but its obvious it would have been at least somewhat different without the extra 20+ seconds of preparation Jinro had to prepare and think it over.
All you people saying it didn't effect anything are clearly biased fanboys. Don't show your ignorance saying this is not an issue.
In any other sport you are not allowed inside the huddle of the enemy team, you are not allowed to look into there play book, nothing of the sort.
It was an all-in. There were a bunch of drones in his base. There isnt much else prep that you can give. When you see that, all there's left to do is survive as much as you can.
On January 20 2011 03:25 Ancient.eu wrote: If he wanted to address the issue he should have spoken with the officials after the game, let them know the situation and fix it, not say it in an interview, create doubt about the match and about Gom's professionalism.
If Jinro had waited and inform the GOM staff about the problem, you will still have people whining about how Jinro didn't confess sooner or the fact that he didn't mention it in the interview or he felt guilty that why he confessed late ...etc etc
Even if Jinro had first told the staff, do you believe that would not still cause doubt about the match and about GOM's professionalism?
I believe both GOM and Jinro handle the situation correctly. I doubt people who been criticizing Jinro would even confess at all if they were in the same situation. Remember, thinking you would act a certain way doesnt mean you will act that will.
Yeah, like others said, active sound-cancelling like from Bose wouldn't work. Really, there's little do other than making walls thicker or adding some materials with high sound absorption. I suppose you can "get geometrical" as well, but that's tricky.
blizzard could take some queue's from gom, in this matter...extremely quick and to-the-point answer to a serious problem. interesting to note how most the responses in this thread, that i read at least, are fairly positive since people just want to know that the issue is being immediately addressed. we don't expect perfection; we DO expect transparency and prompt communication.
I keep reading posts and posts about meaningless speculation and interpretations so I'm gonna go ahead and post (yet freaking again):
When I heard the commentators cry out due to some poor soundproofing, I sent a scv out to confirm it.
This is an admission from the player himself that the soundproofing issue altered his original plan. From this point forward, any possible outcome of the match was completely turned over. The result doesn't matter...
I don't know about the whole GSL rules, but nevertheless the correct behaviour should have been to pause the game and report the situation to the referees.
On January 20 2011 09:19 kiy0 wrote: I keep reading posts and posts about meaningless speculation and interpretations so I'm gonna go ahead and post (yet freaking again):
When I heard the commentators cry out due to some poor soundproofing, I sent a scv out to confirm it.
This is an admission from the player himself that the soundproofing issue altered his original plan. From this point forward, any possible outcome of the match was completely turned over. The result doesn't matter...
I don't know about the whole GSL rules, but nevertheless the correct behaviour should have been to pause the game and report the situation to the referees.
The only possible effect that the scouting SCV had on the game was a loss of some minute amount of minerals for Jinro because that SCV wasn't mining. The SCV didn't cause any alteration to how Jinro responded to the 6pool...
Good to see it's being addressed and that it didn't affect the game. It could of been a lot worse had Jinro blocked his ramp, even if it were just part of his normal build.
Get it fixed and lets move on to some more great games!
On January 20 2011 09:19 kiy0 wrote: I keep reading posts and posts about meaningless speculation and interpretations so I'm gonna go ahead and post (yet freaking again):
When I heard the commentators cry out due to some poor soundproofing, I sent a scv out to confirm it.
This is an admission from the player himself that the soundproofing issue altered his original plan. From this point forward, any possible outcome of the match was completely turned over. The result doesn't matter...
I don't know about the whole GSL rules, but nevertheless the correct behaviour should have been to pause the game and report the situation to the referees.
If anything Jinro's decision to send a scouting scv gave him a little disadvantage since he had one less unit to fight with when Idra's units came. Pausing the game and reporting to the referees might have resulted in a rematch thus making it impossible for Idra to go with his initial plan. A rematch on a terran favored map would have been probably far better for Jinro than having to defend against a non-scouted 6-pool.
Furthermore, do you really believe that Jinro was the first player to ever hear anything outside the booth? You'd be quite delusional to do so... However, he was the first player to mention this issue.
As far as GOM is concerned, I am happy that they addressed the issue so fast after it became widely know. However, I could imagine that they knew about it for a while now and just decided not to change anything.
On January 20 2011 05:43 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: For the people suggesting that they enclose the booths with doors and what not. Wouldn't that marginalize the air flow and lead to potential overheating, especially during longer stretches of play? Or are the computers outside the booth and connect to the player via long cables?
Somehow mankind has overcome this problem in houses and rooms. I'm sure GOM can somehow, some way find a way to mitigate this problem.
Actually, mankind hasn't overcome this problem. Soundproof rooms and only block sound up to a certain level. The decibels of the crowd and speakers would easily overcome the limit and the sound would be noticeable.
On January 20 2011 05:43 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: For the people suggesting that they enclose the booths with doors and what not. Wouldn't that marginalize the air flow and lead to potential overheating, especially during longer stretches of play? Or are the computers outside the booth and connect to the player via long cables?
Somehow mankind has overcome this problem in houses and rooms. I'm sure GOM can somehow, some way find a way to mitigate this problem.
Well, those booths do not look like the size of a home or your average room. I was thinking of including semi-loud fans providing background white noise to mitigate the heat of a fully enclosed box and maybe help the sound issue. Although this could impact the quality of the live viewing experience. But your input is duly noted.
On January 20 2011 08:42 gregnog wrote: Gotta say... that entire game came down to Jinro getting that 1 hp Marine into the bunker, which was 100% luck to begin with. I feel like if Jinro wasn't prepared for the 6 pool from the announcers, he might not have had the presence of mind during that micro battle to save that extra 1 hit. Hard to say, but its obvious it would have been at least somewhat different without the extra 20+ seconds of preparation Jinro had to prepare and think it over.
All you people saying it didn't effect anything are clearly biased fanboys. Don't show your ignorance saying this is not an issue.
In any other sport you are not allowed inside the huddle of the enemy team, you are not allowed to look into there play book, nothing of the sort.
Whoa, no, I don't think this is acceptable.
First of all, what evidence from the game shows that Jinro was prepared for this? He freaking didn't have a wall in! You go on to say that he might not have had "the presence of mind" to save the marine, but earlier in the post you say it was 100% luck that it lived.
To be honest, I don't think much would have changed in the actual game. If Jinro had walled off after scouting, then yes. The lings got into his base, from watching the game it didn't seem like he knew anything was up, no quick switch into something else or anything like that.
On January 20 2011 08:42 gregnog wrote: Gotta say... that entire game came down to Jinro getting that 1 hp Marine into the bunker, which was 100% luck to begin with. I feel like if Jinro wasn't prepared for the 6 pool from the announcers, he might not have had the presence of mind during that micro battle to save that extra 1 hit. Hard to say, but its obvious it would have been at least somewhat different without the extra 20+ seconds of preparation Jinro had to prepare and think it over.
All you people saying it didn't effect anything are clearly biased fanboys. Don't show your ignorance saying this is not an issue.
In any other sport you are not allowed inside the huddle of the enemy team, you are not allowed to look into there play book, nothing of the sort.
Jinro said: "i'll be honnest, at like 1st second of the game music goes down and I hear the commentaros go: "OOOOOHH !!" i'm like okay i'm gonna scout. then my scout didn't see anything because i missed the line of ........."
kinda weird you know... Some may think it didn't changed anything... I believe it changed the issue... even if he didn't saw it... I seriously do think it changed something... BUT
I have a lot of respect for both of these players so I'll let gom.tv sort it out and trust gom.tv.
On January 20 2011 09:52 ZlaSHeR wrote: Amazing that it took a fucking foreigner who doesn't understand korean to bring up the issue of hearing commentators.
And this all just makes some sense, Idra has pride and I doubt he'd take a rematch over something like that in game 4.
Everyone else could understand the commentators so they had no reason to say anything. And to be fair, it's not like Jinro was running around with a stunning expose -- he just kinda said it offhandedly and everything blew up from there.
People should read Jinro's new interview before further discussion:
On January 20 2011 Jinro wrote:Uhm, it has never been an issue until now, and even now I'm not even sure if I actually heard something. I was sure I did when it happened, but I can't hear it in the VOD at all so I don't know. Hearing cheers, just barely, is generally not something you can take much from. 6 pool and someone having a nice sign sounds the same.
On January 20 2011 Jinro wrote:Uhm, it has never been an issue until now, and even now I'm not even sure if I actually heard something. I was sure I did when it happened, but I can't hear it in the VOD at all so I don't know. Hearing cheers, just barely, is generally not something you can take much from. 6 pool and someone having a nice sign sounds the same.
QFT
Also, some people need to use some common sense. I'm 100% sure the Koreans can't understand a single word of the muffled voices from the commentators either, and are thus as much in the dark as the foreigners. Loud shrieks and other noises of an aberrant frequency are much easier to detect by humans, especially when juxtaposed next to the normal sounds of voices. It's not like any of the players are going: "hmm, maybe I should take my attention off the game, and try to listen to the muffled commentators so I can possibly gain an advantage." If the soundproofing was bad to the point that the Koreans could clearly hear what the commentators are saying, this issue would have been brought up and resolved LONG ago.
On January 20 2011 09:52 ZlaSHeR wrote: Amazing that it took a fucking foreigner who doesn't understand korean to bring up the issue of hearing commentators.
And this all just makes some sense, Idra has pride and I doubt he'd take a rematch over something like that in game 4.
Everyone else could understand the commentators so they had no reason to say anything. And to be fair, it's not like Jinro was running around with a stunning expose -- he just kinda said it offhandedly and everything blew up from there.
I am sure "OOOHHHH!" is only something koreans could understand and decipher.
On January 20 2011 08:48 gregnog wrote: I just wanted to mention Idra himself mentioned how you can hear through the booths weeks ago, on STOG. Him and Incontrol were talking about it.
This was buried in the thread and not mentioned but so true- this was something mentioned weeks ago, and if memory serves me, I think it was even brought up on that cast about the possibility of someone hearing them yell if there was a 6 pool. Interesting. Though it seemed to have no impact on the outcome. Much respect to Jinro for admitting, and IdrA for being a man about it and not complaining. Good day for e-sports.
On January 20 2011 08:41 LittleAtari wrote: Jinro put himself out there by being honest. He probably knew that people would call him a cheater for it or undeserving of the win. It could even affect whether or not there should be a re-game. To be honest, this is the best situation that something like this could happen in. It was in a match that was a pretty big deal and it didn't affect the outcome of the game. Players always say that they can hear the commentators at public events, but no one ever makes really big changes.
EDIT: Like someone else said before, yea Jinro could've spoken directly to someone about the issue, but when you do something like announce it in an interview and get people talking, you have a better chance of something being done about the issue.
This is going to be a HARSH but BLUNT statement
People who even conciderd jinro a cheater for something he had NO CONTROL over are stupid fucking idiots sorry but its true just think about it logically
1) he had no control over hearing the commentators 2) he was open and honest about it he didn't have to tell anyone anything
3) WHO in there right mind would fucking blame jinro for something he couldn't help .. a fucking trolling idiot thats who
Lots of people have really exaggerated the issue. I doubt it's had a significant impact on many games. As Jinro said - the music is only quiet for the first minute of the game / between tracks. There would be very few windows of opportunity to hear an "Oooh", and even then, you're probably so focused that it wouldn't mean much to you. Jinro won the game fair and square. IdrA agrees, GomTV agrees, and yet stupid raging nerds are disagreeing for the sake of it.
On January 20 2011 08:48 gregnog wrote: I just wanted to mention Idra himself mentioned how you can hear through the booths weeks ago, on STOG. Him and Incontrol were talking about it.
This was buried in the thread and not mentioned but so true- this was something mentioned weeks ago, and if memory serves me, I think it was even brought up on that cast about the possibility of someone hearing them yell if there was a 6 pool. Interesting. Though it seemed to have no impact on the outcome. Much respect to Jinro for admitting, and IdrA for being a man about it and not complaining. Good day for e-sports.
You say good day for esports but the fact is people are arguing about the possiblity of jinro getting an unfair advantage.
Let's assume that jinro did hear the "oooooh!" clear enough for him to notice it. It might be vague and not much to make out of, but it is an external interuption to the slightest extent, and that is just gomtv's incompetence. If they had done their job properly, this would never have happened. I mean, providing sound and undisturbed environment for the players should be high priority.
On January 20 2011 10:32 Maenander wrote: People should read Jinro's new interview before further discussion:
On January 20 2011 Jinro wrote:Uhm, it has never been an issue until now, and even now I'm not even sure if I actually heard something. I was sure I did when it happened, but I can't hear it in the VOD at all so I don't know. Hearing cheers, just barely, is generally not something you can take much from. 6 pool and someone having a nice sign sounds the same.
QFT
Also, some people need to use some common sense. I'm 100% sure the Koreans can't understand a single word of the muffled voices from the commentators either, and are thus as much in the dark as the foreigners.
Because hearing the Korean commentator go nuts 1min into the game means nothing right? A bit of common sense would tell someone something is going on in which Jinro reacted and sent a scv scout (by the sounds of he never sends it early on Jungle Basin). Yes he missed the lings and drones, but he would of been on alert status in his mind. He also saw the last ling or 2 run by which would of indicated a pool first strat.
Overall I don't think it changed the result of the game however you wonder how many other games players got a headsup because of the Korean commenator going nuts. I'm glad GOM has addressed it so quickly which shows how professional and dedicated they are.
Props to Jinro for letting people know what went on as well.
Artosis mentioned in his live commentary that the 6-pool was planned in advance and that it might work out because Jinro usually scouts really late. Then, Jinro scouted earlier than usual.
Whether or not it affected the outcome of the game, it did affect the game. GOMtv is handling it; so, good.
The bigger story here is that Jinro may actually be human. He got rushed early and freaked out a bit. He accidentally cancelled his Marine instead of his Barracks... Then again, he managed to keep that marine alive and eeked out a win against the odds.
Best of luck in the Round of 4 (and hopefully the Finals)!
Let's assume that jinro did hear the "oooooh!" clear enough for him to notice it. It might be vague and not much to make out of, but it is an external interuption to the slightest extent, and that is just gomtv's incompetence. If they had done their job properly, this would never have happened. I mean, providing sound and undisturbed environment for the players should be high priority.
Yes, they should have tested it better, but it's also the players' responsibility to report these kinds of problems. This is the 4th season of GSL, and Jinro's been the only one who spoke up. What does that tell you? Apparently Idra talked about it on SotG; he neglected to tell Gretech? Pretty stupid of him if you ask me.
Thank you Jinro for being honest about the situation and also it's nice that Gom is responding positively as well. Hopefully this problem will never occur again after they change around with some equipment.
Hahaha I made a topic about sound-proofing some while back.. always thought the shouting was way to loud to not be heard into those small booths.
JinrO is a baller for admitting it. None of us would not react on the commentators doing a "oooh"... not doing anything would be an act itself and thus making us react to it either way. However, as someone else said... who knows if some of the koreans have reacted to these sounds? Fourth GSL ever and this is the first time someone overheard something? My ass.
Good call by GomTV to address it, jinro IS a baller for revealing the problem, Idra is the biggest champ for not bitching for a RM when frankly even I feel like he deserves one.
Good call by GomTV to address it, jinro IS a baller for revealing the problem, Idra is the biggest champ for not bitching for a RM when frankly even I feel like he deserves one.
ESPORTS!
Yup, this is quite sweet honestly. Perhaps this also has to do with Idra respecting Jinro for being able to play macro Terran [well], when many people consider macro Terrans to be at a disadvantage versus a macroing Zerg?
Too bad I don't have the GOM ticket thing, can't watch what happened in that Jungle Basin match.
Also, haha sounds sort of funny hearing RM in the SC2 scene. "XXX has left the game!" "ugh, RM please gogogo!" xD
On January 20 2011 02:40 L3g3nd_ wrote: well lets be honest it didnt help him, he scouted a bit earlier, but missed the lings/drones on the way only seeing 1 drone going, which means nothing. the first he knew of it was when the lings were in his base
in this case doesn't matter.
but imagine if some other times korean players heard units/build orders.
they need to be 100% sure nothing effects their gameplay
thing is there have been issues since season 1.... but the only time it gets any attention is when the 2 foreigners are duking it out and can't understand what is being said anyways ;p
and I'm sure idra knows that he didn't lose because jinro heard an "oooh" and if he is that petty then really he needs to see someone about anger management. If jinro had immediately walled in, i would be on idra's side, but he didn't and the commentators had nothing to do with Jinro winning the game
..... wtf he needs to see someone for anger management. IdrA barely never make any facial expressions
On January 20 2011 04:00 CanucksJC wrote: I thought Jinro saw the reinforcing lings, but I guess by that point, it was too late anyways.
Also, you can't really argue that Jinro hearing the commentators didn't have an effect in the game. Like he said, he canceled the marine, whether or not it was on purpose, and that messed up IdrA's timing to surround. The marine therefore survived, and IdrA lost the game.
I'd argue that that's pretty game changing although Jinro didn't wall-in right away.
Tough break for IdrA IMO.
he said in the interview that he cancelled the marine while trying to cancel the 2nd barracks while the drones and lings were already in his base(rewatch the vod, the cancel for the barracks is about 10 seconds after the lings and drones get into the base... that's just a misclick, in no way did knowing about a 6pool from crowd noise affect his decision there
Actually now that I think about it, all this was after he saw the lings. scratch what i said
Well it may not have made a difference to the end result in this game, but the fact that he heard the crowd noise and changed his scouting pattern means that the crowd noise definitely affected the game in some way, which is obviously something that needs addressing.
On January 20 2011 03:20 s.a.y wrote: Jinro is a baller for confessing.
I agree with this as well - Leta to my knowledge never came out with a statement when he faced accusations. Super manner by jinro, and willing to accept the consequences
On January 20 2011 09:53 Nocthem wrote: Jinro said: "i'll be honnest, at like 1st second of the game music goes down and I hear the commentaros go: "OOOOOHH !!" i'm like okay i'm gonna scout. then my scout didn't see anything because i missed the line of ........."
kinda weird you know... Some may think it didn't changed anything... I believe it changed the issue... even if he didn't saw it... I seriously do think it changed something... BUT
Did it affect Jinro's mind? Hell sure.
If you tell your friend: "I play normal, 6pool me and I try to react accordingly" it will be different when you play ladder and someone suddenly 6pools you. Sure, Jinro might have already discarded the possibilty of the 6pool when it actually hit him, but even those earlier thoughts about it have an effect and might made him a bit less surprised.
Of course this is just argumenting for the sake of the argument. That 0.0005sec or whatever faster reaction time would never change the outcome of the game. Especially since he cannot spent too much time thinking about "Oh, what could that OOOOOOH mean" (the korean commentators like to go OOOH about signs a lot).
Jinro Baller. IdrA Baller. Gom Baller.
Though we actually should look what booth Jinro played in, and look who else played from that booth (seems to be booth specific, because the speaker was directly behind it) and analyse the play from every player in that booth! Or we shouldnt
Man, it's irritating to see the kind of flak that Jinro has been getting recently despite his successes. First people accuse MC of throwing away matches for Jinro, then people accuse him of taking advantage of the sounds leaked into his booth. Considering that he is such an honest and awesome guy, I think the haters are just overreacting in shock to Jinro's surprising success recently.
Anyways, it's great to see GOM addressing this issue, though I think it has so far had a very negligible influence on the GSL games thus far. As advantageous sound leaks are, it's still extremely risky for players to rely on them considering how ambiguous muffled sound is.
easy way to solve the problem, dither: just add fake ooohhh / ahhhhh sounds from outside the booths. then they wont know which ones are real and which ones are fake. you can even make the audience do it, just have one of those 'applause' signs like they used to have in live studio audiences.
Sorry for the issue. GomTV warned themselves for the issue, and that warning will never expire.
Haha, what?
I really don't understand this, can anyone comment on what this means (what a warn means in context of things)?
GomTV can officially warn a player as a host if the player violates a rule or something. At this time, GomTV officially warned themselves. I think that is kind of symbolic action, and I respect that.
Sorry for the issue. GomTV warned themselves for the issue, and that warning will never expire.
Haha, what?
I really don't understand this, can anyone comment on what this means (what a warn means in context of things)?
GomTV can officially warn a player as a host if the player violates a rule or something. At this time, GomTV officially warned themselves. I think that is kind of symbolic action, and I respect that.
Yeh, I respect it also, just sounds hilarious lol.
Sorry for the issue. GomTV warned themselves for the issue, and that warning will never expire.
Haha, what?
I really don't understand this, can anyone comment on what this means (what a warn means in context of things)?
He's basically acknowledging the fact that they have made a mistake and they will not forget that fact. He's just saying that GOM is issuing itself a warning for the mistake.
Sorry for the issue. GomTV warned themselves for the issue, and that warning will never expire.
Haha, what?
I really don't understand this, can anyone comment on what this means (what a warn means in context of things)?
He's basically acknowledging the fact that they have made a mistake and they will not forget that fact. He's just saying that GOM is issuing itself a warning for the mistake.
It's just meaningless, because a player can get sanctioned or banned after a few warnings. What is GOM gonna do once they got a few warnings ?
1) Jinro is a damn baller for admitting the issue 2) Gom is pretty cool for addressing the issue rather than just ignoring 3) IdrA fan boys have something to console themselves
On January 20 2011 20:45 bkrow wrote: 1) Jinro is a damn baller for admitting the issue 2) Gom is pretty cool for addressing the issue rather than just ignoring 3) IdrA fan boys have something to console themselves
All in all a great result for starcraft 2
All true sept number 3. Im a IdrA fan boy and Jinro just got play lucky i guess for game 4. cancelling the marine instead of the barracks :D
Very nice to see GOM doing something like this.. wish they would keep the interview up and also it really didn't change the game other than making Jinro go scout for nothing, because the lings were already chillin in his base lol.
Sorry for the issue. GomTV warned themselves for the issue, and that warning will never expire.
Haha, what?
I really don't understand this, can anyone comment on what this means (what a warn means in context of things)?
He's basically acknowledging the fact that they have made a mistake and they will not forget that fact. He's just saying that GOM is issuing itself a warning for the mistake.
It's just meaningless, because a player can get sanctioned or banned after a few warnings. What is GOM gonna do once they got a few warnings ?
Ban themselves lololol!?? This is pretty humorous imo and they shud play a rematch esp. as that last marine had 5hp left.... It goes to show that even a small difference early on can have a massive butterfly effect on the outcome of a match esp. at the highest levels. Sorry GOM. I luv you guys but warning yourself and the player taking the fall for the flaw is just WRONG!!
On January 20 2011 20:45 bkrow wrote: 1) Jinro is a damn baller for admitting the issue 2) Gom is pretty cool for addressing the issue rather than just ignoring 3) IdrA fan boys have something to console themselves
All in all a great result for starcraft 2
All true sept number 3. Im a IdrA fan boy and Jinro just got play lucky i guess for game 4. cancelling the marine instead of the barracks :D
i think he canceled the marine on purpose. he didnt have his scvs up there yet so it would just be surrounded and killed and in that spot every mineral matters. at least thats how i read it O_O
On January 20 2011 03:31 andytb wrote: Because of the interview action might now be taken to resolve the soundproofing issue which by all accounts is known and brushed under the carpet. I recall an Idra interview (don't know when, sorry) where he said he could sometimes hear the commentators, but it didn't really matter to him because he couldn't make out what they were saying.
You don't have to speak any language to understand excitement that early on in the game.
To me they sound pretty excited all the time ^^ Ever heard how they are all yelling, while tastosis are just chilling out, chatting a little about dog food :p I don't think you should trust that just cause the korean commentators sound excited, a 6 pool is on the way. I hope no actual words slip by though. A korean pro with good ears might be able to pick up quite a lot of information.
Sorry for the issue. GomTV warned themselves for the issue, and that warning will never expire.
Haha, what?
I really don't understand this, can anyone comment on what this means (what a warn means in context of things)?
He's basically acknowledging the fact that they have made a mistake and they will not forget that fact. He's just saying that GOM is issuing itself a warning for the mistake.
It's just meaningless, because a player can get sanctioned or banned after a few warnings. What is GOM gonna do once they got a few warnings ?
Ban themselves lololol!?? This is pretty humorous imo and they shud play a rematch esp. as that last marine had 5hp left.... It goes to show that even a small difference early on can have a massive butterfly effect on the outcome of a match esp. at the highest levels. Sorry GOM. I luv you guys but warning yourself and the player taking the fall for the flaw is just WRONG!!
What are you even on about? Everyone, even Idra (presumably, as he hasn't complained), has agreed that GOM had nothing to do with Jinro winning. The marine shenanigans was because Jinro panicked and pressed cancel on the wrong building, delaying the marine. His only reaction was a slightly earlier scout (which still is a later scout than standard, if I recall correctly). Read the recap and watch the game please.
Overall it all went into Idra's favour, as Jinro had one less SCV in his base when Idra attacked.
There will be no rematch between Jinro and Idra. No progamers raised an objection and it is difficult to say Jinro was able to hold that game due to this soundproofing issue.(If Jinro noticed it was 6 pool, he could block the entrance)
Jinro even said that a six pool and a "nice sign" sound the same. Ha props to GOM though for "warning themselves" and taking measures to fix stuff. Ha so what would happen if GOM ended up breaking another rule and disqualifying themselves? Would GSL get sucked into the Twilight Zone?
one can really appreciate Jinro's honesty.... that was a crazy game... jinro was not assisted by hearing the commentators... he was however assisted by accidentally canceling his marine! LOL... that was classic... no one can make this stuff up... epic epic 6 pool XD
IdrA chose to 6pool because Jungle Basin is a map with an extremely low win-rate for Zerg. Presumably, at the point he attacked and pulled all of his drones as well, the Korean commentators went "oohhhhhh!" (around 13 supply for Jinro). Jinro chose this time to send out an SCV scout while starting a second barracks as he continued his build for the map. The scouting SCV activated a watchtower and saw... an Overlord and a Drone. A couple seconds later IdrA's everything hit Jinro's front door, shocking him to the point of accidentally canceling his own producing Marine instead of the second Barracks.
As far as overhearing commentators/crowd goes, this was probably one of the least impactual ones, and is likely only as significant as it is because 1. of all people, IdrA chose to 6pool, and 2. GSL wants to keep up a good competitive standard, and this incident was apparently partly caused by toning down their soundproofing precautions due to player complaints of uncomfortableness (if I'm reading the article correctly). It in no way should be something that people would want a rematch for, especially not random people on TL who at best only got to watch the matches through livestream.
On January 21 2011 05:43 OldSC2Guy wrote: Some of you are missing the point.
GOM took down the interview. What people say means nothing. What they do matters.
Put the interview back.
Because the interview isn't two people saying things? I'm pretty sure that it was never actually up. What would they gain from taking it down? Quick, turn on the presses, it's a coverup - oh wait.
Actually, there definitely was an interview up at some point, and it definitely wasn't shown anywhere on GomTV's site even though they still had it hosted, and someone definitely linked it in the LR thread. I'm somewhat surprised they ended up taking the interview down.
i cant believe people actually think jinro cheated. obviously he would have walled if he heard about the 6 pool. he even canceled the 2nd rax so he could build a bunker behind his mineral line. all the matches were legit. and i would also like to add that the matches between NaDa and MarineKing were pretty much LOL the whole time.
If I hear something 'oooohh' in the first minute of the game, I will be on alert mode as well.. be it cheese or not. So, I do think that it plays some sort of decisive factor in that game. Anyhow, good luck to Jinro in his next round. I'm sure that he will not be having anymore easy games.
[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 07:26 jdreamer wrote: If I hear something 'oooohh' in the first minute of the game, I will be on alert mode as well.. be it cheese or not. So, I do think that it plays some sort of decisive factor in that game. Anyhow, good luck to Jinro in his next round. I'm sure that he will not be having anymore easy games. [/Q]
playing idra on tilt would have most people already in alert mode. Hearing Ohhh doesnt help you much and would more often then not be a distraction rather then some clue as to how the game is going. Hindsight is 20/20 but i doubt jinro specifically altered his build much (aside from sending out an scv which saw nothing) and i truly believe the game would have played out the same (with an extra scv) had jinro heard nothing or 'OHHH' throughout the entire match.
On January 21 2011 04:04 Taniard wrote: Jinro even said that a six pool and a "nice sign" sound the same. Ha props to GOM though for "warning themselves" and taking measures to fix stuff. Ha so what would happen if GOM ended up breaking another rule and disqualifying themselves? Would GSL get sucked into the Twilight Zone?
Who's " Ha so" ? Is that some korean guy...? cuz you have it in caps in both lines
would he have known if he didn't scout earlier...?
I don't understand why the people think the noise was a problem in this case. This game got won by an accidental misclick. Fitting as how many get lost because of an accidental misclick. Really though, hearing the commentators didn't have any effect on THIS game.
But the issue needs to be fixed.
My biggest question though (after reading 3 pages) is "what is the significance of GOM warning themselves?" It's not like they are going to ban themselves if they get too many warnings right?
On January 21 2011 12:08 dogabutila wrote: My biggest question though (after reading 3 pages) is "what is the significance of GOM warning themselves?" It's not like they are going to ban themselves if they get too many warnings right?
It means that they blame themselves and that Jinro shouldn't be blamed for anything, in a case of something like this someone must be punished/warned and they are warning themselves to just show its their fault not Jinro's.
They put Jinro's interview back up, but you can OBVIOUSLY tell @ 2:44 that they EDITED out the part where Jinro says he could hear the commentators in his booth.
On January 21 2011 13:06 Ctrl W wrote: They put Jinro's interview back up, but you can OBVIOUSLY tell @ 2:44 that they EDITED out the part where Jinro says he could hear the commentators in his booth.
They took the blame for it, last thing they need is someone 4 months from now looking at an interview of a pro player saying some stupid stuff about Jinro getting to X place at this event (hopefully winning)
So ya, editing it out was probably a sound thing for all parties involved.
On January 21 2011 13:06 Ctrl W wrote: They put Jinro's interview back up, but you can OBVIOUSLY tell @ 2:44 that they EDITED out the part where Jinro says he could hear the commentators in his booth.
The players should NEVER be able to see the crowd as well, that's suchhhhh bull****. If you see people getting excited early on, you know cheese is inc. What a dumb system. Face the progamers away or put them in one-way mirrors lawls
On January 21 2011 16:10 SpaceFighting wrote: dont worry guys, they officially warned themselves.. its all gud
howbout they warn themselves about shitty cover-ups and editing interviews?
they clearly don't mean what they said because they're going about this in awfully shady ways. i can't wait til someone observant realizes the crowd is super excited for "no reason" 10 seconds into the game and prepares for a proxy rax/proxy gate/6pool
Would have been better if they had added subtitles explaining the context of the situation in the interview. But at least they are actually addressing the situation.
On January 21 2011 13:06 Ctrl W wrote: They put Jinro's interview back up, but you can OBVIOUSLY tell @ 2:44 that they EDITED out the part where Jinro says he could hear the commentators in his booth.
Solution: put all speakers in front of player booths. If the sound is pointing away from players, they will have much trouble hearing it. Its still possible, but a LOT less likely.
Warned themselves? This accomplishes nothing. Whats going to happen at the next tournament GOMTV broadcasts? I think the players should be required to test out the booth during sound check to see if there is an issue.
On January 21 2011 13:06 Ctrl W wrote: They put Jinro's interview back up, but you can OBVIOUSLY tell @ 2:44 that they EDITED out the part where Jinro says he could hear the commentators in his booth.
On January 21 2011 13:06 Ctrl W wrote: They put Jinro's interview back up, but you can OBVIOUSLY tell @ 2:44 that they EDITED out the part where Jinro says he could hear the commentators in his booth.
Ok so they made a mistake with the boots, but they agreed to the problem, took the blame and promised to fix it. Case closed?
Why on earth would you hide that interview part and create bad press that way? Isn't censorship is so much worse PR than the soundproof mistake itself?
Why don't they teach the commentators to not bust a nut when a 6 pool happens...its kind of a dead give away.. you don't have to yell to describe the excitement that is building.
censoring the interview doesnt really get my hopes that they will actually do their best to fix this
maybe their mindset is more like "this stupid european. korean players are getting clues all the time but just not talk about it. lets hope foreign players dont do so well next gsl and the problem is solved"
but oh wait they "warned themselves" so i guess its all good
Seems kind of odd to make an official statement about a problem and then censor the opinion about the problem. They made a mistake and confessed, great. they made a mistake and confessed and then tries to cover it up, bad.
use the construction-style earcaps used in OSL/MSL/PL, and use noise-cancelling earbuds. as it is, most players in GSL are former BW pros, and they know and are used to that style of headphones/earcaps. soundproof booths are also a plus.
whatever the fix may be, i'm happy to see GOM address the issue, and respect the fact that they warned themselves.
as per the warn, since it does not expire, what is the consequence of a second warn on GOM? (for any issue, not necessarily soundproofing; do they pay a fine? do they shut down for a season?)
best of luck to professional sc2 around the world; jinro definitely opened their eyes for those who are not familiar with professional BW and it's soundproofing that has been implemented for almost a decade.
On January 22 2011 01:07 purecarnagge wrote: Why don't they teach the commentators to not bust a nut when a 6 pool happens...its kind of a dead give away.. you don't have to yell to describe the excitement that is building.
you sort of do. this was the most hyped event in the history of sc2. yelling, screaming, swearing.. there is no holding back. i do not want to listen to commentators who seem dull and boring. that's not the reason why we love korean commentators. we love them (the foreigners who do not understand Korean, that is) because of their passion. just listen to Kingdom commentating OSL for + Show Spoiler +
stork v fantasy
in a few days, and you will know what i am talking about.
Wait a tick. The players can hear tasteosis and the crowd? How long has this been going on? Is that how choyafou manages to stay in the fight for so long?
The issue relating to soundproof booths has been an issue in Starcraft 1. The most notable case being the case of flash and what was termed an 'Ear Hack by some members of the TL community.
I'd like to point out how significant this issue is by discussing:
- The engineering of the sound booth - The practical effects of 'ear hacking'
Construction of the sound proof booth
The booth used both in Starcraft and Starcraft II are different, however the design is practically unchanged.
A sound proof booth is mainly achieved through the use of two planes of sound proof glass, which have a vacuum between them. Since sound is a wave, it needs a medium through which to travel. As more than half the booth is constructed with this glass, it prevents most of the noise from entering in and out.
However, anyone who has lived in an apartment with windows made of soundproof glass knows that sound can still get through. Not through the glass itself but through layers of air that provide ventilation. Where I stay, I have sound proof glass surrounding one side of the building, yet I am able to hear the music from a club from my house which is 15 minutes away.
Now in the case of Starcraft, bear in mind that the source and the receiver (player) are very close. The energy density of sound waves will be the strongest in this scenario, as the intensity of sound is attenuated according to the inverse square of the distance from the source.
Next, we contemplate that the booth is also made of other elements that include metal, fabric and paper. This provides barely any real sound blockage from the commentators.The noise blockage comes exclusively from the ear muffs.
The practical effects of 'ear hacking'
It is established that the majority of sound reduction is achieved through the use of muffs and noise reduction in ear headphones, with the booth itself providing very little actual support. Again, ear muffs also do not provide perfect sound reduction against broad sound waves and in particular, speech.
In ear canal headphones can provide additional sound reduction properties but again, this can be very minimal. As an owner of a pair of Shure SE530 headphones, which boast superior noise reduction capabilities, I am very clear as to how the dynamics work. The way that noise is reduced is through blocking the ear canal using a choice of foam or silicone ear buds which can be chosen in accordance to size. Only a perfect fit can increase bass response and reduce noise. Anything less than a perfect fit allows most of the sound reduction properties to be negated.
As a result of inadequate sound reduction measures and the intensely loud commentator speakers, players who are smart are able to take advantage of the situation. By choosing a ear bud which is small, and wearing a particular brand of ear muffs, a player is able to hear most of what is being spoken or yelled by the commentators in a live broadcast. This provides invaluable information to the recipient of the information, allowing them to hard counter any type of play.
I suspect that KT Flash has been aware of this issue for a very long period of time and has been taking advantage of it. Time and time again, there have been matches where he turns his scouting SCV around for no reason, and is able to find proxy buildings built by his opponents. I am sure TL readers (non-flash) fans can give numerous examples.
I doubt Liquid Jinro thought about the repercussions of discussing the sound proofing issue in his interview. I believe that it was the adrenaline that caused him to state this in the interview. Otherwise, just like Flash, he could have exploited this physical flaw for many GSLs to come.
I think it's a bit naive to think GomTV's "official statement" was sincere. It's all business and businesses will do and say whatever their customers want to hear. In this case, GomTV thought some kind of pre-emptive action would be the best course of damage control.
On January 22 2011 09:04 teh_longinator wrote: Wait a tick. The players can hear tasteosis and the crowd? How long has this been going on? Is that how choyafou manages to stay in the fight for so long?
If everyone yells their lungs out, there's gonna be noise in the booth. Kinda a no brainer to me. I highly doubt players can make out any words though. Also tastosis don't have any loud speakers to the crowd, so ofcourse players won't hear them. The korean commentators do though, so koreans might have a slight advantage. It's like this for every tournament, and it's hard to fix if you want to have audiance there.
Look at Fantasy vs. Stork game 1 of their OSL finals- pretty obvious Fantasy ear hacks when he dances his scv back and forth for no reason. Didn't help him one bit .
The censoring part, what kind of stupid pot head came up with that decision? Please just tell me its the culture or something so I can have an understanding of it, a business culture of some kind.
A column was published on the SC2-pro-team-association website about this. My korean is pretty bad, but if Google serves me right, then they call the videoediting a "disappointment".
On January 22 2011 11:18 RetFan wrote: To Teamliquid members
The issue relating to soundproof booths has been an issue in Starcraft 1. The most notable case being the case of flash and what was termed an 'Ear Hack by some members of the TL community.
I'd like to point out how significant this issue is by discussing:
- The engineering of the sound booth - The practical effects of 'ear hacking'
Construction of the sound proof booth
The booth used both in Starcraft and Starcraft II are different, however the design is practically unchanged.
A sound proof booth is mainly achieved through the use of two planes of sound proof glass, which have a vacuum between them. Since sound is a wave, it needs a medium through which to travel. As more than half the booth is constructed with this glass, it prevents most of the noise from entering in and out.
However, anyone who has lived in an apartment with windows made of soundproof glass knows that sound can still get through. Not through the glass itself but through layers of air that provide ventilation. Where I stay, I have sound proof glass surrounding one side of the building, yet I am able to hear the music from a club from my house which is 15 minutes away.
Now in the case of Starcraft, bear in mind that the source and the receiver (player) are very close. The energy density of sound waves will be the strongest in this scenario, as the intensity of sound is attenuated according to the inverse square of the distance from the source.
Next, we contemplate that the booth is also made of other elements that include metal, fabric and paper. This provides barely any real sound blockage from the commentators.The noise blockage comes exclusively from the ear muffs.
The practical effects of 'ear hacking'
It is established that the majority of sound reduction is achieved through the use of muffs and noise reduction in ear headphones, with the booth itself providing very little actual support. Again, ear muffs also do not provide perfect sound reduction against broad sound waves and in particular, speech.
In ear canal headphones can provide additional sound reduction properties but again, this can be very minimal. As an owner of a pair of Shure SE530 headphones, which boast superior noise reduction capabilities, I am very clear as to how the dynamics work. The way that noise is reduced is through blocking the ear canal using a choice of foam or silicone ear buds which can be chosen in accordance to size. Only a perfect fit can increase bass response and reduce noise. Anything less than a perfect fit allows most of the sound reduction properties to be negated.
As a result of inadequate sound reduction measures and the intensely loud commentator speakers, players who are smart are able to take advantage of the situation. By choosing a ear bud which is small, and wearing a particular brand of ear muffs, a player is able to hear most of what is being spoken or yelled by the commentators in a live broadcast. This provides invaluable information to the recipient of the information, allowing them to hard counter any type of play.
I suspect that KT Flash has been aware of this issue for a very long period of time and has been taking advantage of it. Time and time again, there have been matches where he turns his scouting SCV around for no reason, and is able to find proxy buildings built by his opponents. I am sure TL readers (non-flash) fans can give numerous examples.
I doubt Liquid Jinro thought about the repercussions of discussing the sound proofing issue in his interview. I believe that it was the adrenaline that caused him to state this in the interview. Otherwise, just like Flash, he could have exploited this physical flaw for many GSLs to come.
Quoted for truth.
Despite not being an issue directly related to the engineering of booth itself — another thing that could help would be making the relative positions of the loudspeakers and the booth in such a way that the booth stays at the direction of lowest acoustic gain possible of the loudspeakers.
On January 22 2011 11:18 RetFan wrote: To Teamliquid members
The issue relating to soundproof booths has been an issue in Starcraft 1. The most notable case being the case of flash and what was termed an 'Ear Hack by some members of the TL community.
I'd like to point out how significant this issue is by discussing:
- The engineering of the sound booth - The practical effects of 'ear hacking'
Construction of the sound proof booth
The booth used both in Starcraft and Starcraft II are different, however the design is practically unchanged.
A sound proof booth is mainly achieved through the use of two planes of sound proof glass, which have a vacuum between them. Since sound is a wave, it needs a medium through which to travel. As more than half the booth is constructed with this glass, it prevents most of the noise from entering in and out.
However, anyone who has lived in an apartment with windows made of soundproof glass knows that sound can still get through. Not through the glass itself but through layers of air that provide ventilation. Where I stay, I have sound proof glass surrounding one side of the building, yet I am able to hear the music from a club from my house which is 15 minutes away.
Now in the case of Starcraft, bear in mind that the source and the receiver (player) are very close. The energy density of sound waves will be the strongest in this scenario, as the intensity of sound is attenuated according to the inverse square of the distance from the source.
Next, we contemplate that the booth is also made of other elements that include metal, fabric and paper. This provides barely any real sound blockage from the commentators.The noise blockage comes exclusively from the ear muffs.
The practical effects of 'ear hacking'
It is established that the majority of sound reduction is achieved through the use of muffs and noise reduction in ear headphones, with the booth itself providing very little actual support. Again, ear muffs also do not provide perfect sound reduction against broad sound waves and in particular, speech.
In ear canal headphones can provide additional sound reduction properties but again, this can be very minimal. As an owner of a pair of Shure SE530 headphones, which boast superior noise reduction capabilities, I am very clear as to how the dynamics work. The way that noise is reduced is through blocking the ear canal using a choice of foam or silicone ear buds which can be chosen in accordance to size. Only a perfect fit can increase bass response and reduce noise. Anything less than a perfect fit allows most of the sound reduction properties to be negated.
As a result of inadequate sound reduction measures and the intensely loud commentator speakers, players who are smart are able to take advantage of the situation. By choosing a ear bud which is small, and wearing a particular brand of ear muffs, a player is able to hear most of what is being spoken or yelled by the commentators in a live broadcast. This provides invaluable information to the recipient of the information, allowing them to hard counter any type of play.
I suspect that KT Flash has been aware of this issue for a very long period of time and has been taking advantage of it. Time and time again, there have been matches where he turns his scouting SCV around for no reason, and is able to find proxy buildings built by his opponents. I am sure TL readers (non-flash) fans can give numerous examples.
I doubt Liquid Jinro thought about the repercussions of discussing the sound proofing issue in his interview. I believe that it was the adrenaline that caused him to state this in the interview. Otherwise, just like Flash, he could have exploited this physical flaw for many GSLs to come.
Quoted for truth.
Despite not being an issue directly related to the engineering of booth itself — another thing that could help would be making the relative positions of the loudspeakers and the booth in such a way that the booth stays at the direction of lowest acoustic gain possible of the loudspeakers.
This was already pointed out by the user mojo_ca.
im curious as to how accurate that is, whether it just sounds legit and uses someone really good (flash) as an example or whether its actually legitimately possible that the progamers hear it though if i remember correctly they have game sounds on maximum too
On January 22 2011 11:18 RetFan wrote: To Teamliquid members
The issue relating to soundproof booths has been an issue in Starcraft 1. The most notable case being the case of flash and what was termed an 'Ear Hack by some members of the TL community.
I'd like to point out how significant this issue is by discussing:
- The engineering of the sound booth - The practical effects of 'ear hacking'
Construction of the sound proof booth
The booth used both in Starcraft and Starcraft II are different, however the design is practically unchanged.
A sound proof booth is mainly achieved through the use of two planes of sound proof glass, which have a vacuum between them. Since sound is a wave, it needs a medium through which to travel. As more than half the booth is constructed with this glass, it prevents most of the noise from entering in and out.
However, anyone who has lived in an apartment with windows made of soundproof glass knows that sound can still get through. Not through the glass itself but through layers of air that provide ventilation. Where I stay, I have sound proof glass surrounding one side of the building, yet I am able to hear the music from a club from my house which is 15 minutes away.
Now in the case of Starcraft, bear in mind that the source and the receiver (player) are very close. The energy density of sound waves will be the strongest in this scenario, as the intensity of sound is attenuated according to the inverse square of the distance from the source.
Next, we contemplate that the booth is also made of other elements that include metal, fabric and paper. This provides barely any real sound blockage from the commentators.The noise blockage comes exclusively from the ear muffs.
The practical effects of 'ear hacking'
It is established that the majority of sound reduction is achieved through the use of muffs and noise reduction in ear headphones, with the booth itself providing very little actual support. Again, ear muffs also do not provide perfect sound reduction against broad sound waves and in particular, speech.
In ear canal headphones can provide additional sound reduction properties but again, this can be very minimal. As an owner of a pair of Shure SE530 headphones, which boast superior noise reduction capabilities, I am very clear as to how the dynamics work. The way that noise is reduced is through blocking the ear canal using a choice of foam or silicone ear buds which can be chosen in accordance to size. Only a perfect fit can increase bass response and reduce noise. Anything less than a perfect fit allows most of the sound reduction properties to be negated.
As a result of inadequate sound reduction measures and the intensely loud commentator speakers, players who are smart are able to take advantage of the situation. By choosing a ear bud which is small, and wearing a particular brand of ear muffs, a player is able to hear most of what is being spoken or yelled by the commentators in a live broadcast. This provides invaluable information to the recipient of the information, allowing them to hard counter any type of play.
I suspect that KT Flash has been aware of this issue for a very long period of time and has been taking advantage of it. Time and time again, there have been matches where he turns his scouting SCV around for no reason, and is able to find proxy buildings built by his opponents. I am sure TL readers (non-flash) fans can give numerous examples.
I doubt Liquid Jinro thought about the repercussions of discussing the sound proofing issue in his interview. I believe that it was the adrenaline that caused him to state this in the interview. Otherwise, just like Flash, he could have exploited this physical flaw for many GSLs to come.
This is actually a lot of bullshit, at least the conclusions.
1) I dont know how SC1 does it, but all the players wear the same brand headphones. Theres no "Oh Im going with this super minimalistic headset because I just adore the colour", you play with what you are given.
2) The reason I could hear anything had nothing to do with the headphones!! GOM plays the terran theme on max volume constantly during your games, not the best for your ears maybe but certainly drowns out the crowd. The ONLY reason I heard anything was because just as the game started the track restarted and thus the volume dipped for 1 second.
3) If I hadnt been so pumped I would have told GOM in private instead of doing it in public, because it really did not affect this particular game but as it could affect future games, and I believe they will do their best to prevent it from happening again, they deserve to know.
I take offense to the insinuations that Id exploit something like this -_-
Im not gonna comment on Flash at all, because I do not know him or the ear hack incident, but given that you were so quick to assume that I would unscrupulously exploit this without knowing me at all, I dont put too much stock in that opinion.
On January 22 2011 11:18 RetFan wrote: To Teamliquid members
The issue relating to soundproof booths has been an issue in Starcraft 1. The most notable case being the case of flash and what was termed an 'Ear Hack by some members of the TL community.
I'd like to point out how significant this issue is by discussing:
- The engineering of the sound booth - The practical effects of 'ear hacking'
Construction of the sound proof booth
The booth used both in Starcraft and Starcraft II are different, however the design is practically unchanged.
A sound proof booth is mainly achieved through the use of two planes of sound proof glass, which have a vacuum between them. Since sound is a wave, it needs a medium through which to travel. As more than half the booth is constructed with this glass, it prevents most of the noise from entering in and out.
However, anyone who has lived in an apartment with windows made of soundproof glass knows that sound can still get through. Not through the glass itself but through layers of air that provide ventilation. Where I stay, I have sound proof glass surrounding one side of the building, yet I am able to hear the music from a club from my house which is 15 minutes away.
Now in the case of Starcraft, bear in mind that the source and the receiver (player) are very close. The energy density of sound waves will be the strongest in this scenario, as the intensity of sound is attenuated according to the inverse square of the distance from the source.
Next, we contemplate that the booth is also made of other elements that include metal, fabric and paper. This provides barely any real sound blockage from the commentators.The noise blockage comes exclusively from the ear muffs.
The practical effects of 'ear hacking'
It is established that the majority of sound reduction is achieved through the use of muffs and noise reduction in ear headphones, with the booth itself providing very little actual support. Again, ear muffs also do not provide perfect sound reduction against broad sound waves and in particular, speech.
In ear canal headphones can provide additional sound reduction properties but again, this can be very minimal. As an owner of a pair of Shure SE530 headphones, which boast superior noise reduction capabilities, I am very clear as to how the dynamics work. The way that noise is reduced is through blocking the ear canal using a choice of foam or silicone ear buds which can be chosen in accordance to size. Only a perfect fit can increase bass response and reduce noise. Anything less than a perfect fit allows most of the sound reduction properties to be negated.
As a result of inadequate sound reduction measures and the intensely loud commentator speakers, players who are smart are able to take advantage of the situation. By choosing a ear bud which is small, and wearing a particular brand of ear muffs, a player is able to hear most of what is being spoken or yelled by the commentators in a live broadcast. This provides invaluable information to the recipient of the information, allowing them to hard counter any type of play.
I suspect that KT Flash has been aware of this issue for a very long period of time and has been taking advantage of it. Time and time again, there have been matches where he turns his scouting SCV around for no reason, and is able to find proxy buildings built by his opponents. I am sure TL readers (non-flash) fans can give numerous examples.
I doubt Liquid Jinro thought about the repercussions of discussing the sound proofing issue in his interview. I believe that it was the adrenaline that caused him to state this in the interview. Otherwise, just like Flash, he could have exploited this physical flaw for many GSLs to come.
Quoted for truth.
Despite not being an issue directly related to the engineering of booth itself — another thing that could help would be making the relative positions of the loudspeakers and the booth in such a way that the booth stays at the direction of lowest acoustic gain possible of the loudspeakers.
This was already pointed out by the user mojo_ca.
im curious as to how accurate that is, whether it just sounds legit and uses someone really good (flash) as an example or whether its actually legitimately possible that the progamers hear it though if i remember correctly they have game sounds on maximum too
Not just gamesounds. Theres also huge speakers in your booth that play music on max volume, then you put your headset on, from where you hear the gamesound (also set to maximum).
In Starcraft 1, the players use different brand headphones and ear muffs in respect to their team. For example, from memory, MBC Game Hero use blue ear muffs with a dragon icon. The quality among the sound reduction equipment would therefore vary depending on their equipment manufacturer.
It is to the best of my knowledge that the rules in Starcraft I do not disallow players to use a sound attenuator to control the resistance in regard to in ear canal headphones with high impedance. This also give control of volume. In addition to the ability to loosely fit the in ear canals with smaller sized ear buds, there is a lot of room for player abuse if they wanted to.
Liquid Jinro
I believe that you are an honest player who conforms to a high level of professional ethics.The term ear hack was used because it was a term previously used in regard to Flash's games. It was repeated for consistency. Not to underlie what occurred in relation to your particular case.
Furthermore, the commentary was in the Korean language, and I believe/know that you had no intention of using the flaw in booth design to your advantage. However, given it exists, many players in your position would have kept quiet. I mentioned the possibility that you stated this in the interview because of adrenaline and excitement. The possibility that a player could have exploited this is real and the purpose of my last statement was not to insinuate that you actually did. I apologize if this was not clear in the original post.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/kyELp.jpg)
