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5930 Posts
On November 06 2010 02:06 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 01:30 zerious wrote:On November 06 2010 01:10 teamsolid wrote:On November 06 2010 01:00 zerious wrote:On November 06 2010 00:55 teamsolid wrote:On November 06 2010 00:53 zerious wrote:On November 06 2010 00:50 teamsolid wrote:On November 06 2010 00:46 zerious wrote:On November 06 2010 00:41 Omigawa wrote:On November 05 2010 21:17 Rinny wrote:
StonerZerg for bonjwa! This really makes me think that the success of ex brood warians and foreigners is completely dependent on the rts talent pool being tied up in sc1. No one argues that BW is a harder game to play and takes more skill to master, at least at this point in time. I don't think, however, that just because they are both SC that skills from BW immediately translates to SC2. Take mvp for example... checking the TL power ranks he was in the top 10 for BW as few as 6 months ago. If a top 10 player from BW gets knocked out in the ro32, and someone like NaDa, who hasn't been in the top 10 for awhile, can make it to the ro4 there must be something other than BW skill alone that makes a SC2 player successful. I don't think that if/when all the BW players come over to SC2 it will be autowin, except for JD and Flash maybe. I think it's a different game with different skillsets, and the SC2 guys that didn't have a lot of success in BW (NesTea, Fruitdealer, TesteR) have the skillset to do well in SC2. That doesn't mean that current BW pros can aquire that skillset, but if every single BW pro transferred over to SC2 tomorrow I don't think we would see the top 10 from BW immediately become the top 10 in SC2. Just my $0.02. You are seriously underestimating how good A-class SC1 pros are. I think you mean S-class, because Tester, Fruit, MVP, Sangho are all A-class BW pros and each got knocked out Ro16 or earlier. there's a difference between A-class and A-team Please elaborate. Afaik, A-class = A-team S-class= Flash, Jaedong A-class = Leta, Bisu, Fantasy, Stork, free[gm], Sea[shield], Calm, Kal, etc then you have B-class players whom are A-teamers B-class = by.hero, Mind, Light, You just made up these rankings arbitrarily dude... most people consider Bisu and probably Stork S-class as well. Light and by.hero are easily A-class I dunno what you're talking about. Mind was sick for about a year or two before kinda dropping off a bit, but he's still okay. I would still consider him A-class because he's a regular in WeMade matches. IMO, anyone who is likely to get sent out on in any given PL match is considered A-class (and that includes Tester, Fruit, MVP, Sangho while they were still active). S-Class = Won multiple individual leagues, team ace A-class = A PL regular for their team B-class = Rarely ever gets sent out, except maybe to snipe (e.g. bbyong and Canata from SKT, Tempest from KT, etc) Being a regular PL player doesn't qualify you as A-class if your team is garbage and they have no one else to send out. This is why we look at individual league results You do realize every single team this season is either 3-2 or 2-3 in matches so far except SKT1 and Ace right?
That's irrelevant because most teams only have two to three good players and a whole pile of fairly mediocre to bad players; but you never saw them because you only had to send out 4 players. Now you have to send out 6 players, teams are forced to dig deep and play their scrubs; hence the reason you get some funny results like rookies reverse sweeping other teams after they've played their best players and ACE actually winning a lot more games.
Proleague Results meant a lot for MVP because when Woongjing was forced to send out a terran, he would never win. All this tier shit is bullshit because it literally doesn't mean anything. It doesn't matter whether or not Flash is considered bonjwa tier or MVP is considered A Class because he was in the A team for Woonjing. Watching the games they play confirms whether or not these players are actually good or not (Flash is good, MVP was bad and loses constantly).
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On November 06 2010 02:00 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 00:41 Omigawa wrote:On November 05 2010 21:17 Rinny wrote:
StonerZerg for bonjwa! This really makes me think that the success of ex brood warians and foreigners is completely dependent on the rts talent pool being tied up in sc1. No one argues that BW is a harder game to play and takes more skill to master, at least at this point in time. I don't think, however, that just because they are both SC that skills from BW immediately translates to SC2. Take mvp for example... checking the TL power ranks he was in the top 10 for BW as few as 6 months ago. If a top 10 player from BW gets knocked out in the ro32, and someone like NaDa, who hasn't been in the top 10 for awhile, can make it to the ro4 there must be something other than BW skill alone that makes a SC2 player successful. I don't think that if/when all the BW players come over to SC2 it will be autowin, except for JD and Flash maybe. I think it's a different game with different skillsets, and the SC2 guys that didn't have a lot of success in BW (NesTea, Fruitdealer, TesteR) have the skillset to do well in SC2. That doesn't mean that current BW pros can aquire that skillset, but if every single BW pro transferred over to SC2 tomorrow I don't think we would see the top 10 from BW immediately become the top 10 in SC2. Just my $0.02. I think that the short answer is the counter system. Build orders are drastically more important in sc2 it seems (imo) and therefore scouting becomes immensely important. In sc1 a player could often blindy choose a build and play from there, in sc2 if you play blind and don't adapt your build you are almost garunteed to lose. In the case of sc2, there is also the whole pressure and initiative. Players like foxer with early pressure can force the other player into a style that they want. Yes micro is important and will give you slight edges (or huge edges if not scouted like a banshee or hellion). Eventually all the popular builds will be figured out and the counters will be known. This will cause the value of micro to increase. SC2 has advanced pretty well so far, but it still has a ways to go before all the possible builds are discovered and thus winning build order games will happen frequently. (Unless you are foxer who has amazing enough micro to win against almost any build it seems, but most of us (including the pros) aren't there yet).
Not sure what you mean by this as even a D level PvZ is highly scouting dependant. Eg: protoss scouts 9pool and reacts with 2 cannons or protoss scouts 12 hatch and can skip cannons.
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On November 06 2010 01:00 zerious wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 00:55 teamsolid wrote:On November 06 2010 00:53 zerious wrote:On November 06 2010 00:50 teamsolid wrote:On November 06 2010 00:46 zerious wrote:On November 06 2010 00:41 Omigawa wrote:On November 05 2010 21:17 Rinny wrote:
StonerZerg for bonjwa! This really makes me think that the success of ex brood warians and foreigners is completely dependent on the rts talent pool being tied up in sc1. No one argues that BW is a harder game to play and takes more skill to master, at least at this point in time. I don't think, however, that just because they are both SC that skills from BW immediately translates to SC2. Take mvp for example... checking the TL power ranks he was in the top 10 for BW as few as 6 months ago. If a top 10 player from BW gets knocked out in the ro32, and someone like NaDa, who hasn't been in the top 10 for awhile, can make it to the ro4 there must be something other than BW skill alone that makes a SC2 player successful. I don't think that if/when all the BW players come over to SC2 it will be autowin, except for JD and Flash maybe. I think it's a different game with different skillsets, and the SC2 guys that didn't have a lot of success in BW (NesTea, Fruitdealer, TesteR) have the skillset to do well in SC2. That doesn't mean that current BW pros can aquire that skillset, but if every single BW pro transferred over to SC2 tomorrow I don't think we would see the top 10 from BW immediately become the top 10 in SC2. Just my $0.02. You are seriously underestimating how good A-class SC1 pros are. I think you mean S-class, because Tester, Fruit, MVP, Sangho are all A-class BW pros and each got knocked out Ro16 or earlier. there's a difference between A-class and A-team Please elaborate. Afaik, A-class = A-team S-class= Flash, Jaedong A-class = Leta, Bisu, Fantasy, Stork, free[gm], Sea[shield], Calm, Kal, etc then you have B-class players whom are A-teamers B-class = by.hero, Mind, Light,
Everyone you listed has either been S class at one point or is S class right now, your suggestion that Light is a B team is if you'll excuse my French is fucking hilarious. I literally think you have zero clue what S-class even means, because it certainly isn't a term reserved for the best 2 players.
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On November 06 2010 01:04 XiaoJoyce- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 01:00 zerious wrote:On November 06 2010 00:55 teamsolid wrote:On November 06 2010 00:53 zerious wrote:On November 06 2010 00:50 teamsolid wrote:On November 06 2010 00:46 zerious wrote:On November 06 2010 00:41 Omigawa wrote:On November 05 2010 21:17 Rinny wrote:
StonerZerg for bonjwa! This really makes me think that the success of ex brood warians and foreigners is completely dependent on the rts talent pool being tied up in sc1. No one argues that BW is a harder game to play and takes more skill to master, at least at this point in time. I don't think, however, that just because they are both SC that skills from BW immediately translates to SC2. Take mvp for example... checking the TL power ranks he was in the top 10 for BW as few as 6 months ago. If a top 10 player from BW gets knocked out in the ro32, and someone like NaDa, who hasn't been in the top 10 for awhile, can make it to the ro4 there must be something other than BW skill alone that makes a SC2 player successful. I don't think that if/when all the BW players come over to SC2 it will be autowin, except for JD and Flash maybe. I think it's a different game with different skillsets, and the SC2 guys that didn't have a lot of success in BW (NesTea, Fruitdealer, TesteR) have the skillset to do well in SC2. That doesn't mean that current BW pros can aquire that skillset, but if every single BW pro transferred over to SC2 tomorrow I don't think we would see the top 10 from BW immediately become the top 10 in SC2. Just my $0.02. You are seriously underestimating how good A-class SC1 pros are. I think you mean S-class, because Tester, Fruit, MVP, Sangho are all A-class BW pros and each got knocked out Ro16 or earlier. there's a difference between A-class and A-team Please elaborate. Afaik, A-class = A-team S-class= Flash, Jaedong A-class = Leta, Bisu, Fantasy, Stork, free[gm], Sea[shield], Calm, Kal, etc then you have B-class players whom are A-teamers B-class = by.hero, Mind, Light, How can light be B team? He went so high in Starleague last season and win some rounds vs Jaedong
I didn't even see him around on TV....
+ Show Spoiler +
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And i think there was a thread back some time ago that says S-class = 60% winrate no?
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On November 05 2010 21:19 Invictus wrote:
A. Even with the patch I think Terran and Zerg are on even terms. There are many Terrans that are very good. I think it's just that Terrans are being crybabies (laughs).
What a statment haha. Even though im sad boxer lost, nestea sure played solidly today.
Im definitely anticipating both foxer and nestea's series in the finals. I don't really care who wins as long as they give us great games
Agree! 
Hopefully next season a Protoss will make it into the finals though :D
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On November 05 2010 21:17 TungVu wrote:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Damn, its gonna be another TvZ final
Yeah. Protoss is just a peace of shit.
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A zerg player calling others "cry babies"??? Oh the irony.
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On November 06 2010 13:54 divertiti wrote:
A zerg player calling others "cry babies"??? Oh the irony.
Not sure if you play zerg on ladder, but almost everytime I beat a terran on ladder its "Fucking roaches, OP."
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On November 06 2010 14:15 DaRkFrosT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 13:54 divertiti wrote:
A zerg player calling others "cry babies"??? Oh the irony. Not sure if you play zerg on ladder, but almost everytime I beat a terran on ladder its "Fucking roaches, OP."
rofl I got that from a terran when I only made 3 roaches all game lolol.
But I expect the finals to be amazing. Both such good players can't wait :D
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Wow huge surprise! NeTea played amazing thought, i felt boxer didn't know what to do exactly TvZ or something.
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omg nestea ranked KR #1 according to blizz rankings. > boxer
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wow im really suprised that nestea made it this far. he must have quit the weed cos back in sc1 i thought he was the dumbest zerg there was after watching this game where he charges 10 lurkers at 4 bunkers and loses them for no gain. cant wait till to see the finals turn out
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On November 06 2010 01:00 zerious wrote:
S-class= Flash, Jaedong
A-class = Leta, Bisu, Fantasy, Stork, free[gm], Sea[shield], Calm, Kal, etc
then you have B-class players whom are A-teamers
B-class = by.hero, Mind, Light,
REMOVE YOUR SKT LICENCE AT ONCE!
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Boxer QQ
Boxer will just have to win GSL#3. D:
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In all honesty I'm pretty happy that Boxer didn't win this. But from the results it doesn't even look close.
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On November 07 2010 00:23 Lightwip wrote:
In all honesty I'm pretty happy that Boxer didn't win this. But from the results it doesn't even look close.
Quite frankly I feel like results look closer than the actual games were.
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Great Games, so sad to see Boxer losing this time.
Awesome to see A ZERG @ the Finals once again.
For The Swarm Fighting ^^
GO GO ZergBong o.Ov
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EPT
