EPTBlizzard sues OGN - Page 14
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:04 Kanil wrote: If Blizzard is suing the two TV stations that currently show StarCraft... then how do they plan on getting StarCraft 2 on TV? Do they think the GSL can be viable long-term on just internet streams? Correct me if I'm wrong but the GSL is broadcasted on Korean tv, and they've been getting huge viewer counts. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5454 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:13 Dionyseus wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but the GSL is broadcasted on Korean tv, and they've been getting huge viewer counts. lol, no, gsl is streamed on an internet stream. | ||
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lundril
Germany12 Posts
On November 05 2010 04:35 Assymptotic wrote: Just to get it out of the way first, it's clear that Blizzard has the legal upper hand here; the IP rights and terms of agreement in the software allows Blizzard to demand KesPA to pay a license fee to broadcast games. ... This is not so clear at all. Especially not in the US where there exists a "fair use" principle (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use ). Read that Wikipedia article. Blizzard might claim that what you see when you watch a broadcasted game is their graphics and sounds. This kind of statement is of course far from the truth: Imagine you start a Broodwar game between two computer opponents. The result is what you get when you use only Blizzards IP and nothing else. So it is quite clear that at least a big part of the content which is broadcasted in a Broodwar game is actually not a creation from Blizzard. The part which makes a game interesting is the intelligence and the skill of the players and this part is certainly not IP from Blizzard. As far as I understand (correct me if I am wrong) Broodwar can be modded pretty heavily. So what would you say if KeSPA started to use their own KeSPA mod with totally different graphics and sounds (even if the units still behave the same). They already have their own maps. Now with heavily modified graphics and sounds you would have pretty big difficulties to even recognize that you are seeing a Broodwar match if you just took a short glance. So no: To me it is not clear at all that US copyright law allows Blizzard to control the broadcasting of KeSPA organized tournaments. Maybe it might force KeSPA to do their own mod... Of course all this is in Korea and not the US; and I certainly have no clue about Korean copyright law. It might be pretty helpful for the discussion if someone who has a clue about Korean copyright law would comment :-). | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:20 lundril wrote: This is not so clear at all. Especially not in the US where there exists a "fair use" principle (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use ). Read that Wikipedia article. Blizzard might claim that what you see when you watch a broadcasted game is their graphics and sounds. This kind of statement is of course far from the truth: Imagine you start a Broodwar game between two computer opponents. The result is what you get when you use only Blizzards IP and nothing else. So it is quite clear that at least a big part of the content which is broadcasted in a Broodwar game is actually not a creation from Blizzard. The part which makes a game interesting is the intelligence and the skill of the players and this part is certainly not IP from Blizzard. As far as I understand (correct me if I am wrong) Broodwar can be modded pretty heavily. So what would you say if KeSPA started to use their own KeSPA mod with totally different graphics and sounds (even if the units still behave the same). They already have their own maps. Now with heavily modified graphics and sounds you would have pretty big difficulties to even recognize that you are seeing a Broodwar match if you just took a short glance. So no: To me it is not clear at all that US copyright law allows Blizzard to control the broadcasting of KeSPA organized tournaments. Maybe it might force KeSPA to do their own mod... Of course all this is in Korea and not the US; and I certainly have no clue about Korean copyright law. It might be pretty helpful for the discussion if someone who has a clue about Korean copyright law would comment :-). AND Kespa did their own map too so it would only be using the software as a tool instead of actually using maps provided by Blizzard. | ||
infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On November 04 2010 20:55 CanucksJC wrote: Paul Sams, Chief Operating Officer of Blizzard, said 'We asked OGN to either acquire the legal right to broadcast or stop the process of the league on October 22, but all we got in return was the already planned schedule of new OSL and MSL from KeSPA. This only meant that they'd go forward without our consent.' He also said 'We strongly believe that OSL and GSL can co-exist, and we wish the best with the OGN programs. However, it is more important that we protect our rights, and it's a shame that we have to sort this out in such a way.' tbh i agree it is a shame blizzard goes to such lengths for IP rights :< thanks for the translation! | ||
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vishrut
United States567 Posts
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zenMaster
Canada761 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:08 AlBundy wrote: I didn't want to participate in this discussion but just reading that thread is so painful and depressing... Speculations, misinformations, jumps to conclusions... between teenagers who know nothing about law, and startled die-hards who spout absurd statements, I learned absolutely nothing and now my brain hurts. -Spitting nonsensical and uninformed legal gibberish? check. -Comparing BW with coca-cola? check. -Saying blizzard loves money? check. (Who doesn't love money btw) -Bashing sc2 pointlessly? check. -Threatening of boycotting blizzard's products even though you enjoy playing and watching BW? check. Please just think about the reader before posting. Also I would like to thank the mods who carefully watch the threads related to that topic. Hopefully this whole mess will be resolved and Bw leagues will be able to go on. Two can play that game. -Spitting nonsensical and uninformed legal gibberish? check by both sides. -Saying a 4 month old game is great? check. -Saying Blizzard loves e-sports? check. -BW is old and needs to die for the new? check. -Proleague is not Blizzard's product lol. check. Why do you have Korean pro-team tags when you don't even know what it is? | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:08 AlBundy wrote: I didn't want to participate in this discussion but just reading that thread is so painful and depressing... Speculations, misinformations, jumps to conclusions... between teenagers who know nothing about law, and startled die-hards who spout absurd statements, I learned absolutely nothing and now my brain hurts. -Spitting nonsensical and uninformed legal gibberish? check. -Comparing BW with coca-cola? check. -Saying blizzard loves money? check. (Who doesn't love money btw) -Bashing sc2 pointlessly? check. -Threatening of boycotting blizzard's products even though you enjoy playing and watching BW? check. Please just think about the reader before posting. Also I would like to thank the mods who carefully watch the threads related to that topic. Hopefully this whole mess will be resolved and Bw leagues will be able to go on. I just searched and found two of yours posts that are something like what you criticize here if not worse: [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=148946¤tpage=14#275[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150858¤tpage=15#300[/url] Dont act just like a SC2 fan converted to a Blizzard fanboy who presents yourself like a very mature guy. On topic: I think nobody here can assure what will be the result, but I just hope for the good of BW that the broadcasters win or settle a good deal. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:34 vishrut wrote: blizzard should let osl, msl, pl continue but make them put an sc2 ad in every few commercial breaks You know, I bet that if Blizzard let Kespa do whatever they want, Kespa will probably do the same thing to SC2 as to BW therefore more progamers will be willing to make a switch. | ||
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Nayl
Canada413 Posts
Kespa has power to put SC2 on tv, Blizzard can let them continue SC1 without making unreasonable demands. If it drags like this for any longer SC1 will slowly die while SC2 will lose that crucial momentum to grow in SK by being delayed on being put on TV. =( | ||
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Pleiades
United States472 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:47 zenMaster wrote: Two can play that game. -Spitting nonsensical and uninformed legal gibberish? check by both sides. -Saying a 4 month old game is great? check. -Saying Blizzard loves e-sports? check. -BW is old and needs to die for the new? check. -Proleague is not Blizzard's product lol. check. Why do you have Korean pro-team tags when you don't even know what it is? I don't think he is against the BW pro-scene, just that some people on the forums who are pro-BW aren't exactly responding quite nicely. Although I do get why, but please don't get so defensive and angry at him or me. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5454 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:50 Xiphos wrote: You know, I bet that if Blizzard let Kespa do whatever they want, Kespa will probably do the same thing to SC2 as to BW therefore more progamers will be willing to make a switch. sc2 does not have LAN - it's impossible to do what KeSPA did with BW as blizzard can simply shut any league down on bnet "2.0". | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:13 Dionyseus wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but the GSL is broadcasted on Korean tv, and they've been getting huge viewer counts. GomTV isn't a TV station, its purely internet streaming and vods for download. Consider yourself corrected. | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:47 zenMaster wrote: Two can play that game. -Spitting nonsensical and uninformed legal gibberish? check by both sides. -Saying a 4 month old game is great? check. -Saying Blizzard loves e-sports? check. -BW is old and needs to die for the new? check. -Proleague is not Blizzard's product lol. check. Why do you have Korean pro-team tags when you don't even know what it is? You are right two can play that game but isn't that irrelevant? If you read my post you can see that I didn't even choose a side, precisely because both seem helpless. @palexhur thanks for stalking me, that feels good. I think I'm going to come to colombia and start stalking you too. Hopefully on my way I won't be abducted by a bunch of hopeless guerilleros By the way you're not a very good stalker. If you knew me you'd know that I'm not a " SC2 fan converted to a Blizzard fanboy" who presents myself like "a very mature guy". Unlike some people, instead of blindly standing up for one side, I try to act reasonably and in moderation. Unfortunately people jump on each other like victims of a plane crash who have no choice but to become cannibals in order to survive. But please go on, speculation and false accusations are very entertaining whether they come from activision blizzard's side, or kespa/ogn/mbc's side. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On November 05 2010 08:53 Pleiades wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2010 08:21 ffreakk wrote: Your source? Flash earned 400 Mil won last year, his salary is about half that (the other half is price money).. It make sense that a lesser pro player would earn 1/10 of that. Unless you you can present evidence that suggest otherwise. SC2: Only a few people earning money (about 100k/year max?). The rest get none. Housing? Food? SC1: Only a few people earning big money (about 370k/year max? aka Flash's earning last year).. The rest get paid a significantly smaller amount (30k/year on average according to unverified sources).. Housing and food paid for.. How do some people can even say that there is more money to be had in GSL (sc2) is a mystery to me. All these talks on working conditions and girlfriend is garbage, imo.. Its so far out of point that clearly people who mentioned this is only saying so in hope of making the other side look more negative.. And in case those need being addressed (some already are), Stork has gf (as mentioned by someone else) and Light pimp after games like nobody's business. Regarding training time/working hour.. The standard training hour for A-teamers = 10 hours/day.. Any extra training is carried out under the player's own volition and fueled only by his desire to get better.. 10 hours/day is a VERY normal amount for working adults where i came from.. My friend who graduated from University recently now works as a trainee manager for Charles and Kleith, as well as a few others, works 10-12 hours a day, 6 days a week.. It is much worse in places like Japan (average get-home time 9pm? o.O).. Just because in the US people get off work asap doesnt mean that culture applies everywhere in the world.. More to the point: the progamers' working condition isnt even close to being bad.. Plus getting to work towards ur dreams is a luxury enjoyed by few.. Most wither away behind a generic office table. Since more discussions and analogies and such wont be appreciated by most.. I would just express my hope that Blizzard fail to exert their dominance and that the e-Sport scene will continue to flourish. PS: For the guys that claims that SC2 is a great game.. Sorry to offend, but in my honest opinion you are likely newbies to the gaming scene to be able to pass SC2 off as "great".. If you can, you can look up (or try playing) their older products and list down on paper their pros, cons and features of innovation, you will be able to see for yourself the general trend of quality in their releases. For a quick reference, SC:BW and Diablo2 was legendary, WC3 + TFT was good, SC2 is ... Also many seem to consider The Burning Crusade to be much better than Wrath of the Lich King. As I said, "MOST"... not everyone is a Flash, Boxer, or Nada who can make big bucks off progaming. I didn't say that you couldn't, but the reality is, you take a big risk on that chance instead of investing your time on another. I'll respect your opinion on things, and I agree on a few of the comments you've made in your post, but as most things change over time, including gaming, you should know that what SC/BW is to you is the same as SC2 is to newer gamers or younger people. I'm failry young (17) and only started playing StarCraft seriously in 2008 or 2009 (around that time). I have no nostalgia. My opinion is unbiased. And I can honestly tell you that I think StarCraft 2 is a piece of shit compared to Brood War. I even prefer vanilla StarCraft to StarCraft 2, which it is more fair to compare StarCraft 2 to, considering StarCraft 2 does not have an expansion. And don't tell me that the reason SC2 sucks is that there haven't been enough patches. They started patching it very long ago, back in beta. StarCraft 2 is just never going to be as good as Brood war for me. Of course I respect other opinions. If you prefer StarCraft 2, that's fine, but for me and many other people SC2 will never be as good as BW - and this is not because we're nostalgic or biased. Believe me, we want SC2 to live up to BW since it's going to replace it. We're just pissed that BW is being replaced by an inferior game, not that it's being replaced. | ||
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Crushgroove
United States793 Posts
Another dynamic is also at work here... Blizzard owes it to Gretech, the only company who bothered to obtain the rights legally, to protect them from poaching. If blizz did nothing, it would say to Gretech that Blizz doesn't appreciate their honorable business practices in the slightest. | ||
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toadstool
Australia421 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:47 zenMaster wrote: Two can play that game. -Spitting nonsensical and uninformed legal gibberish? check by both sides. -Saying a 4 month old game is great? check. -Saying Blizzard loves e-sports? check. -BW is old and needs to die for the new? check. -Proleague is not Blizzard's product lol. check. Why do you have Korean pro-team tags when you don't even know what it is? I think this is what gets to most SC2 fans. SC:BW veterans spitting on SC2, despite not playing it as much. Saying a 4 month old game is great. What's wrong with that? Of course Starcraft 2 is great, my friends and I have fun playing on it. You got a problem with that? | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On November 05 2010 10:04 AlBundy wrote: You are right two can play that game but isn't that irrelevant? If you read my post you can see that I didn't even choose a side, precisely because both seem helpless. @palexhur thanks for stalking me, that feels good. I think I'm going to come to colombia and start stalking you too. Hopefully on my way I won't be abducted by a bunch of hopeless guerilleros By the way you're not a very good stalker. If you knew me you'd know that I'm not a " SC2 fan converted to a Blizzard fanboy" who presents myself like "a very mature guy". Unlike some people, instead of blindly standing up for one side, I try to act reasonably and in moderation. Unfortunately people jump on each other like victims of a plane crash who have no choice but to become cannibals in order to survive. But please go on, speculation and false accusations are very entertaining whether they come from activision blizzard's side, or kespa/ogn/mbc's side. It feels so good when a "no teenager" guy refute something about some video game with the issues in some country, please continue, you can PM whenever you want. check | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On November 05 2010 10:08 Crushgroove wrote: Another dynamic is also at work here... Blizzard owes it to Gretech, the only company who bothered to obtain the rights legally, to protect them from poaching.. OGN legally bought the rights to broadcast StarCraft from Hanbisoft, who worked under Blizzard. + Show Spoiler + But hey, that was like 10 years ago so who cares? lolololo | ||
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