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On November 05 2010 10:46 catabowl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 08:21 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 07:34 Pleiades wrote:
The problem is, most progamers don't make 30k a year. Your source? Flash earned 400 Mil won last year, his salary is about half that (the other half is price money).. It make sense that a lesser pro player would earn 1/10 of that. Unless you you can present evidence that suggest otherwise. SC2: Only a few people earning money (about 100k/year max?). The rest get none. Housing? Food? SC1: Only a few people earning big money (about 370k/year max? aka Flash's earning last year).. The rest get paid a significantly smaller amount (30k/year on average according to unverified sources).. Housing and food paid for.. How do some people can even say that there is more money to be had in GSL (sc2) is a mystery to me. All these talks on working conditions and girlfriend is garbage, imo.. Its so far out of point that clearly people who mentioned this is only saying so in hope of making the other side look more negative.. And in case those need being addressed (some already are), Stork has gf (as mentioned by someone else) and Light pimp after games like nobody's business. Regarding training time/working hour.. The standard training hour for A-teamers = 10 hours/day.. Any extra training is carried out under the player's own volition and fueled only by his desire to get better.. 10 hours/day is a VERY normal amount for working adults where i came from.. My friend who graduated from University recently now works as a trainee manager for Charles and Kleith, as well as a few others, works 10-12 hours a day, 6 days a week.. It is much worse in places like Japan (average get-home time 9pm? o.O).. Just because in the US people get off work asap doesnt mean that culture applies everywhere in the world.. More to the point: the progamers' working condition isnt even close to being bad.. Plus getting to work towards ur dreams is a luxury enjoyed by few.. Most wither away behind a generic office table. Since more discussions and analogies and such wont be appreciated by most.. I would just express my hope that Blizzard fail to exert their dominance and that the e-Sport scene will continue to flourish. PS: For the guys that claims that SC2 is a great game.. Sorry to offend, but in my honest opinion you are likely newbies to the gaming scene to be able to pass SC2 off as "great".. If you can, you can look up (or try playing) their older products and list down on paper their pros, cons and features of innovation, you will be able to see for yourself the general trend of quality in their releases. For a quick reference, SC:BW and Diablo2 was legendary, WC3 + TFT was good, SC2 is ... Also many seem to consider The Burning Crusade to be much better than Wrath of the Lich King. I love posts like these. Games been out 4 months and tournaments are paying out 100k. There's no league yet for SC2 so there cannoy be salaried players. But, look at how many "small" SC2 tournaments are out there. Comparing a salaried league vs prize winning tournaments is a joke argument. And as for your "PS" claim... you're blinding yourself by your own prejudice. Yes, D2 is legendary. Broodwar, if it wasn't for Korea, would not be "Legendary" and in 10 years, SC2 will be called "Legendary" while SC3 threatens it. Anyway, as to the purpose of this thread. Blizzard is doing what Blizzard thinks is best to protect IP rights. For those out there that honestly believe this is to kill the BW scene so SC2 erupts... HAHAHAHAHA. Blizzard has made a killing on SC2 release and inevitably the SC2 competitive scene will take off. Korean proleague will form under sc2. What Blizzard is doing is protecting themselves from losing THEIR GAME. It's not like this is football or basketball... Blizzard created the product and should have it protected. Plain and simple. Now for those that claim "If it wasn't for BW success in Korea..." Are u kidding me? Blizzard success is not dependant on Korea Proleague. If you believe this, I feel bad for you. Did the BW proleague create SC2? I don't believe so. Blizzard was creating SC2 way before the Proleague scene really took off. They just failed at it early and then focused on Diablo and WoW before trying the SC2 project again. (Wasn't it called Ghost?)
Lol, dude, ghost was not StarCraft 2. It wasn't even an RTS. Also, they started working on SC2 after The Frozen Throne, and the proleague existed before that. So get your fucking facts straight, man.
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Considering BoxeR getting a 200$k sponsorship from "I",as well as 250k+ for a team, this early. I think it's safe to say SC2 will profit just as much as BW, if not more.
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I don't know what side to choose.
I want Blizzard to get money for the amazing professional gaming scene their game has launched.
I also want these Korean pro-leagues to make money and not be bankrupt due to outrageous fees, as well as get the recognition for their accomplishments in the field of e-sports.
In the end, I just want to see a growing e-sports community. In my opinion, I think SC2 is a game that will inevitably replace its predecessor (go ahead and blast me for that, I know its coming), but that matters less than the desire to have a good, high quality, sustained pro-gaming scene.
E-sports still has a long way to go before being where us fans want it to be. Like it or not, the BW scene in Korea is not enough to satisfy a large and growing professional gaming community. Lawsuits like this only seem to hurt everyone and the fact that we're all wont to pick sides is just throwing fuel on the fire.
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I love posts like these. Games been out 4 months and tournaments are paying out 100k. There's no league yet for SC2 so there cannoy be salaried players. But, look at how many "small" SC2 tournaments are out there. Comparing a salaried league vs prize winning tournaments is a joke argument.
Now for those that claim "If it wasn't for BW success in Korea..." Are u kidding me? Blizzard success is not dependant on Korea Proleague. If you believe this, I feel bad for you. Did the BW proleague create SC2? I don't believe so. Blizzard was creating SC2 way before the Proleague scene really took off. They just failed at it early and then focused on Diablo and WoW before trying the SC2 project again. (Wasn't it called Ghost?)
Again I like SC2 but there is a reason why there are decent sized SC2 tournaments - hardware companies like EVGA and Zotac or whatever can advertise through a maaaaaassive PC game launch and hopefully get people to buy their discrete graphics cards.
The launch was this massive because it was the sequal to that game that people making a living off in Korea. "Blizzard making balanced games" is a reputation the pro Brood War scene has given them; infact its the only "balanced" game they've (note: it was players like Savior and Flash who did the shit to make it "balanced") made to date.
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Unfortunate OGN shoulda just done what they had to to obtain the rights and they wouldnt be in a shit storm. :/
its just unfortunate that another cool league could have gone up, i personally dont see it happening now but if it does hell ya SC/SC2 are awesome.
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lol the funny thing is, suppose blizz wins the case. which means OGN has to pay damage. however, the licensing rights was already assigned to Gretech, so OGN would be paying Gretech instead. but at the end of the day both Gretech and OGN is owned by CJ anyways.
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I think blizzard is going to win. Its a business vs business matter and in any court in any case Blizzard is going to win.
If OGN and MBC did not make any profits from broadcasting, than Blizzard might loose, but since they are making a profit out of it, Blizzard is right to look for compensation.
Its dame basically as if Barcelona asks for television broadcast money from a TV station and they don't pay and continue broadcasting without consent from Barcelona, its just not possible.
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i just hope this gets settled soon. this disorderly conduct by kespa and the companies is a disgrace.
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On November 05 2010 11:17 thehitman wrote:
I think blizzard is going to win. Its a business vs business matter and in any court in any case Blizzard is going to win.
If OGN and MBC did not make any profits from broadcasting, than Blizzard might loose, but since they are making a profit out of it, Blizzard is right to look for compensation.
Its dame basically as if Barcelona asks for television broadcast money from a TV station and they don't pay and continue broadcasting without consent from Barcelona, its just not possible.
Pretty sure that OGN and MBC didn't make any profits out of it. BUT the thing is really the sponsors of teams that made profits. SKT and Samsung probably made TONS of profits of SC.
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Can anyone translate a well thought-out netizen response to this issue? Especially pertaining to the continued prevalence of BW? I'd really be interested to hear the Korean community's opinion on the continued existence of BW as an eSport.
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On November 05 2010 02:40 Spazer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 02:14 Salv wrote:
I haven't been following the Blizzard vs Kespa/OGN debate too closely, mostly because I never watched the Korean proscene to begin with, so I could care less what happens now, but from a legal standpoint, does Blizzard not have every right to do this? I mean, pushing aside whether or not it screws over the fans, and whether or not Blizzard benefited from Kespa making the game so popular, the fact is that Blizzard does own the game, and you cannot broadcast it without their consent no? Or is that the debate going on right now? IP rights aren't that cut and dry. Yeah Blizzard made the game, but to what extent should that give them control over an entire e-sport? It's arguable that BW as an e-sport is the creation of progamers and the like, and Blizz should have no jurisdiction over that. That's what most of the debate is about.
People should stop ignoring good posts like this.
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I'm still completely neutral on all of the BS thats been going on between Blizzard and KeSPA and all that jazz. To be honest, I think they are both acting like blithering idiots. The Brood War scene wasn't as near and dear to my heart as most TL users express in these kind of threads, but its sad to see such a great televised eSport slowly die. I play SC2 because, honestly, I got into competitive 1v1 on Brood War far too late to really be competitive and not burn out because I was only D+ for the year I tried to play. So, I'm just going to enjoy SC2 for what it is and hopefully it can rise up from Brood War's ashes into something great, especially with players like NaDa and BoxeR hitting the scene.
As previous tip-top developers have demonstrated, "boycotting" doesn't seem to work well, so I feel people complaining should just give it a shot instead of being left in the dark when Brood War finally crumbles at the professional level, as it is inevitable, regardless of what Blizzard says about wanting to keep it alive. Lawsuits are probably going to go in Blizzard's favor, in my opinion.
Anyhow, best of luck to hopefully finding some sort of resolution to keep Brood War alive for a couple more years, but I'm not sure KeSPA and Blizzard are up to the task at this point.
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No one messes with blizzard :/
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I'm sure this is legit, but the facts seem skewed to me. If nobody but GOM can broadcast, why does MLG broadcast events? There are countless others, to be sure, but that one jumped out at me.
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MLG has the broadcast rights for North America from Blizzard I believe.
EDIT- Gretech/GomTV has broadcast rights for Blizzard games in Korea.
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On November 05 2010 11:25 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 02:40 Spazer wrote:On November 05 2010 02:14 Salv wrote:
I haven't been following the Blizzard vs Kespa/OGN debate too closely, mostly because I never watched the Korean proscene to begin with, so I could care less what happens now, but from a legal standpoint, does Blizzard not have every right to do this? I mean, pushing aside whether or not it screws over the fans, and whether or not Blizzard benefited from Kespa making the game so popular, the fact is that Blizzard does own the game, and you cannot broadcast it without their consent no? Or is that the debate going on right now? IP rights aren't that cut and dry. Yeah Blizzard made the game, but to what extent should that give them control over an entire e-sport? It's arguable that BW as an e-sport is the creation of progamers and the like, and Blizz should have no jurisdiction over that. That's what most of the debate is about. People should stop ignoring good posts like this.
Its not that great of a post. The NFL owns anything NFL related, including all broadcast rights. If you want to create a spinoff, you need to invest the money to create your own game. What this means, is that if KeSPA wants to continue on with BW, they need to create their own version of BW.
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On November 05 2010 11:37 Kogut wrote:
I'm sure this is legit, but the facts seem skewed to me. If nobody but GOM can broadcast, why does MLG broadcast events? There are countless others, to be sure, but that one jumped out at me.
MLG doesn't broadcast on television.
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On November 05 2010 11:37 Kogut wrote:
I'm sure this is legit, but the facts seem skewed to me. If nobody but GOM can broadcast, why does MLG broadcast events? There are countless others, to be sure, but that one jumped out at me.
GOM owns korean broadcast.
I believe MLG owns american broadcast, as I havent seen any other event in NA (or there may not be one for america yet, as there are no channels for SC... I think internet broadcasts may be different too)
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It's always sad to see things like this happen. No one would have been playing Starcraft in 2008 if there wasn't a competitive scene for it. The reason that SC1 still sells copies today is indirectly because of the actions of these Korean leagues. Activision/Blizzard can only see the short term profit involved in controlling/charging these leagues. They don't understand that these actions are threatening the long term health of their game.
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On November 05 2010 11:42 TurtlePerson2 wrote:
It's always sad to see things like this happen. No one would have been playing Starcraft in 2008 if there wasn't a competitive scene for it. The reason that SC1 still sells copies today is indirectly because of the actions of these Korean leagues. Activision/Blizzard can only see the short term profit involved in controlling/charging these leagues. They don't understand that these actions are threatening the long term health of their game.
Then you realize this wouldnt be happening if they had just cooperated in the first place. Initial demands from blizzard were pretty small, but KeSPA ignored them.
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EPT
