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i'm not totally happy that they balance the game around 2v2 and the lower leagues but i can perfectly understand why.
for the game to be popular, it needs to be balanced around ppl who plays 1-2 hour a day and those who plays 6 hours a day. And if you only have 1 or 2 hour a day to play , you don't want to spend it just making probes and pylon and practicing timings and perfecting build order. You want to build army and fight. The balances ( reapers and zealots ) are necesarry so that these people are not fed up with the game.
E-sports needs this group of people to stay interested in the game as casual fans. No sport can survive without its armchair fans and bandwagoners. Not football ( soccer), basketball, baseball.
We can be elitist and says "ok screw them then who needs casuals" , but this is not how the real world works. casual fans bring sponsorships which brings money and prestige and acknowlegdement towards esports.
I am happy that david kim is actually very upfront and honest about this and he understands the need for casual fans even though he is a top 200 player himself ( guy beat top players like huk etc quite often).
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Q. It's unfortunate that everyone hates you due to the balance issues in this game
Um what? haha what an awkward way to start an interview. I don't think anyone here ever blamed David Kim?
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A. Marauder is one of the units that we are looking at through various data, and we think that we nerfed them indirectly in the recent patch through nerfing Medivacs. We don't think Marauders are, either unit stat wise or statistics-wise, strong, but we are continuing to check the feedback. So, if we find any special overpoweredness, we are willing to provide a solution. For now, we are watching.
Not only not overpowered, but he doesnt even think they're 'strong'. ^^
Thanks for the translation!
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At least we know who dayvie is now...
Thanks, great stuff!
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Nice interview, some interesting things were said, a New League sounds reasonable; BUT, how on earth can someone start an interview with such an stupid question ( they way it was done ).
..."Q. It's unfortunate that everyone hates you due to the balance issues in this game. Tell us what other people are there in the balancing team."...
Loved the answer tho ^^
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United States238 Posts
I've mentioned this a few pages back, but Nios is a Korean. In Korean SC 2 community, David Kim is seen as the "anti-christ" in SC 2 balancing. So...
Also, the interview is not formal. So he can get away with starting an interview with a question like that.
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On October 22 2010 17:07 leomon wrote:
Everyone complaining about the "Grand Master league" name needs to keep in mind that this is a translation of a korean interview, so there might be translation errors.
Nope. It's written phonetically, "Gu Ren Du Ma Su To Ri Gu." "Grandmaster League" is exactly what he meant.
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On October 22 2010 18:22 .Aar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 17:07 leomon wrote:
Everyone complaining about the "Grand Master league" name needs to keep in mind that this is a translation of a korean interview, so there might be translation errors. Nope. It's written phonetically, "Gu Ren Du Ma Su To Ri Gu." "Grandmaster League" is exactly what he meant.
haha reading that is hilarious
On October 22 2010 14:19 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 14:10 frogmelter wrote:On October 22 2010 14:01 Selith wrote:
A. We take teamplay seriously as well as 1v1. Recent 1.1.2 patch changed Reapers. While Reapers had no problem in 1:1, if you look at the top of the 2:2 team ranks, almost half of them are Terran+Zerg, and they all use Reaperling. This problem is same in NA as well as in Korea. This means that you can't succeed all that well in teamplay unless you play a Terran+Zerg combination, so we try to fix it if the problem is as big as that. If not, then we try to balance around 1:1.
Also, forward proxy gate Zealot rush was popular for a bit after release. This didn't get much use among the top players, but it was near impossible to stop at silver-level play. So we pondered how to fix this balance issue without affecting top players, and in the end, we decided to increase the time required to build Zealots to get it balanced.
Ughhhh DO NOT WANT Balanced for silver leagues and team play  Read the bold you made and the underlined i made and stop whining.
Except the last underlined part doesnt make any sense.
Little timings like a 5 second build time increase influences top lvl play WAY, way more than silver level play.
Still, I like David Kim and respect him a lot, he's a strong player and while I dont always agree with their balance decisions they are definitely heading the right direction overall.
I just hope they stop patching because of silver league players from now on ^^
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On October 22 2010 14:01 Selith wrote:
Q. Recent patch changed how Void Rays work?
A. A Korean progamer, who played a Protoss although his main race isn't Protoss, sent us a replay showing a weakness of opponents in a certain specific period of time when a Protoss is using a Void Ray. Through the replay, we gave Void Ray the change that it received.
...We can't do balancing patch around just 1 game or 10 games...
...We don't think Marauders are, either unit stat wise or statistics-wise, strong...
So basically he contradicted himself and then went on to say marauders aren't even considered strong -.-
The reason for the void ray nerf in particular just blows my mind. I wish a korean progamer would send a Terran rep in sometime so they could base a huge balancing decision off of it.
edit: not to mention balance decisions based on Silver league and 2v2
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Yeah i suspected the additional reaper nerfs were due to team games. Kind of unfortunate, but its nice they dont totally neglect the other modes of play, and that they atleast seem thoughtful/careful about it.
I like David Kim's interviews. Kind of funny he has to request a Korean account hehe. They need to fix that somehow.
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Except the last underlined part doesnt make any sense.
Little timings like a 5 second build time increase influences top lvl play WAY, way more than silver level play.
Still, I like David Kim and respect him a lot, he's a strong player and while I dont always agree with their balance decisions they are definitely heading the right direction overall.
I just hope they stop patching because of silver league players from now on ^^
Exactly, it is completely impossible to balanced for 2v2 or silver league players without affecting high level players. I don't understand how a high level player like him can believe something else.
It really disturbs me that they are making balance changes in what sounds like a haphazard way. How do they even know what the changes will do to the game when there are probably only a handful of people at Blizzard testing the changes?
They need to do what they did for WOW and have a test server that has potential changes that players can test. That way they can test how the changes will affect actual play and they can spot bugs before they push the patch to millions of people. Stuff like the phoenix bug wouldn't happen.
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On October 22 2010 18:39 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 14:01 Selith wrote:
Q. Recent patch changed how Void Rays work?
A. A Korean progamer, who played a Protoss although his main race isn't Protoss, sent us a replay showing a weakness of opponents in a certain specific period of time when a Protoss is using a Void Ray. Through the replay, we gave Void Ray the change that it received.
...We can't do balancing patch around just 1 game or 10 games...
...We don't think Marauders are, either unit stat wise or statistics-wise, strong... So basically he contradicted himself and then went on to say marauders aren't even considered strong -.- The reason for the void ray nerf in particular just blows my mind. I wish a korean progamer would send a Terran rep in sometime so they could base a huge balancing decision off of it. edit: not to mention balance decisions based on Silver league and 2v2
Regarding the void ray, I assume that the rep showed a bigger problem that they where able to reproduce and verify. They did not change it because of the rep, they changed it because of a timing issue, wich the rep showed.
The marauders quote is blowing my mind tho...
And he states that they primarily balance based in1v1 and only balance around other/lower leages if there is some really big issue (Reaperling was absolutely horrible).
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The pros in chess are called grand masters, I think that's where they picked it from.
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This was a slightly infuriating interview.
ofc. an offrace player sent a voidray nerf. The zealot timing was really appreciated too -.- Silver level... srysly? I mean plat low D I could well not really understand, but silver?
Marauders aren't strong... Yeah They clearly watch the tournaments. -.-
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The voidray replay was obviously a timing exploit against proabbly Zerg. There was probably a timing where a Zerg player cannot stop a voidray rush no matter what he does, Blizzard assessed and obviously thought it was appropriate for void rays to be nerfed.
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They are doing the right thing.
If they will focus only on 1v1 at pro level then they will ruin lower leagues and team games which is 90% of gamers.
This is the only way to balance:
1. Play yourselves in different levels.
2. Listen to pro's
3. Community feedback.
4. And the last, statistics (not so important)
I don't see any other way to fix the balance imo
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On October 22 2010 14:17 Zerksys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2010 14:14 skindzer wrote:
There should be 2 leagues above diamond. I agree with this guy. The skill level difference from the top of diamond to the bottom of diamond is almost as big as the skill level difference from diamond to bronze. It's seriously mind blowing the range of players that are in diamond. They should put players into 2 leagues about diamond to give it a better split.
just hope they make an invite-only or have a player-cap on both leagues, or else it will be like diamond all over again - with time, the better will hold the top posisions and the lower will be held by those of "lesser" skill. but, having the new league have a player-cap on 100 is a good start.
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I seriously dot get all the hate here?
This means that you can't succeed all that well in teamplay unless you play a Terran+Zerg combination, so we try to fix it if the problem is as big as that. If not, then we try to balance around 1:1.
He says they balance primarily around 1v1 but if there is an issue breaking 2v2 they have to fix that, and will try to do so in a way that affects 1v1 as little as possible. Same for the silver issue, if there is something breaking a match-up there they have to fix it. Imbalances are fine, a broken game is not and should not be ignored in any league.
If they ignore it a huge % of the players (read FANS) will get frustrated, stop playing, tell thier friend SC2 sucks and stop watching SC2 as an e-sports. And it will suffer way more.
When I read that interview I was pleasantly suprised, they balance around 1v1 top diamond, but if there is an issue breaking the game at any other level they deal with it, and try to deal with it in a way that has as little impact as possible for 1v1 top. Exactly as i would want it...
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Marauders are quite a balanced unit. It's just that its abilities are imba, specifically concussive shells. 50% slow wtf. reduce the slow percentage to 40 or 30%
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New league should be cool. Wonder when it will be implemented.
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EPT
