eSTRO, who was under IEG (International e-Sports Group), a e-Sports centered corporation, has dissolved.
KeSPA announced on the 12th that eSTRO will officially be dissolved. Thus, the team's players will be drafted into the remaining progaming teams.
IEG did not decide to extend eSTRO's operations in August, and from the middle of September, eSTRO's members have been living in an officetel (T/N: Korean term for an "Office Hotel", a type of hostel for working adults in cities, etc) and practiced in the Yongsan e-Sports Stadium (T/N: OGN's stadium), with the help of KeSPA.
As such, the former team's players will be given a chance to be drafted into the remaining teams. However, players who fail to be drafted will be waived, or realistically have to end their careers as progamers.
The method for drafting was not announced, but it is speculated that rankings and past performances in the 09-10 season will be involved in the drafting process. A method involving bidding is also in consideration.
Regarding this issue, KeSPA stated that "the dissolvement process has not be finalised", and that "all details will be officially announced through the press."
eSTRO's players are now: Really, Classic, hyvaa, Action, Flying, Grape, Dear and another player for a total of 8 players for the Brood War side, while the Special Force team's draft details were not announced. Special Force players are said to be continuing their practice in a house provided by Dragonfly.
Estro players to be sent to other teams via a 'Posting System' Source: Daily E-Sports
While the idea of a draft based on a team's finish last season had been floated, a system much like an auction has been selected to decide where the ex-Estro players will end up.
KeSPA will first set a minimum contract for the Estro players, where the bidding will begin. The minimum contract for a player is the average salary of all other players who performed similarly during the 2009~2010 season. The player will be contracted to the team with the highest offer.
On October 12 2010 14:22 Arite wrote: Wait, are they going first to last or last to first? Because giving an already-strong team the choice to get the best player really doesn't seem fair.
He explains in the second sentence that drafting will be done starting from the lowest ranking player.
On October 12 2010 14:22 Arite wrote: Wait, are they going first to last or last to first? Because giving an already-strong team the choice to get the best player really doesn't seem fair.
well from what OP says, i'd say last to first. (see below) i'm very excited to see who goes where.
On October 12 2010 14:19 GTR wrote: Draft is to be ordered based on rankings of last year, lowest to highest (no idea how CJ-hite will be handled).
Draft for the teams is to be ordered based on rankings of last year, lowest to highest (no idea how CJ-hite will be handled, as hite was 11th, CJ 5th IIRC).
"선수들의 드래프트 일정과 방법은 아직 알려지지 않은 가운데 지난 프로리그 09-10 시즌 성적의 역순으로 지명권을 부여하거나, 경쟁 입찰을 통한 방법 등이 논의되고 있는 것으로 알려졌다."
They're actually still trying to decide how they're gonna do it. what you have down is just one method considered.
This is all pretty interesting. As much as I love PL a good thing is this will reduce the amount of matches I need to follow given there are less proteams now. Hope they're all happy wherever they go.
I just really hope that the estro players stay in BW and dont exodus to SC2. And if khan get really i might go back to supporting khan. In form stork + really jangbi and great could be a pretty strong lineup. And if stork can fire maybe they can make it through the playoffs.
I like the ranking based method best. A well-rounded pro-league is the best counter to predictable matches (with the exception of poor ACE). Then again, I feel sorry for the eSTRO players for splitting up.Proteams are a close knit group, if the interviews can be trusted.
If I was any eSTRO player I would strongly consider either retiring or moving on to SC2 (when the alternative is being chucked on to a new BW team all by myself...). Hope those of the eSTRO gamers who do want to continue playing BW can succeed on their new teams.
specialized in e-sports IEG (International e-Sports Group) gave up a pro-game run to the East will be dismantled.
Korea e-Sports Association (the Association) on the 12th, the final dismantling of the East has decided. Accordingly, sosoktim players through the next draft will be promoted to a new team and contract.
IEG East include the parent company ended the contract with the player at the last game teams operating in August to release the consignment sale of the Association as from the middle of last September organized by the Office Building Association while living in the camp, Yongsan secondary e-sports stadium were engaged in the exercise and commute to.
As the decision to dismantle part of the East players through the draft contract to propel a new team, and if I do not selected in the draft waiver disclosure or fact to be a gamer activity seems to be interrupted.
Athlete of the draft schedule and the unknown of how the professional league last season, 09-10 to clinch the reverse order of scores given, or by way of competitive bidding, and is said to be discussing.
Association officials about it "with regard to dismantling the East has not been decided yet," was repeatedly told that, "If it is determined the contents will distribute a press release the official," he said.
Meanwhile, the remaining players in the current East Terran Park Sang Woo, gimdowoo, sindaegeun Zerg, Protoss gimseongdae sinjaeuk, yubyeongjun, baekdongjun and eight persons, Special Forces was not known whether the players' draft. Dragon Fly Special Forces players continued to practice in the established housing and known.
Don't use Google Translator please. This gibberish only makes heads hurt.
eSTRO, who was under IEG (International e-Sports Group), a e-Sports centered corporation, has dissolved.
KeSPA announced on the 12th that eSTRO will officially be dissolved. Thus, the team's players will be drafted into the remaining progaming teams.
IEG did not decide to extend eSTRO's operations in August, and from the middle of September, eSTRO's members have been living in an officetel (T/N: Korean term for an "Office Hotel", a type of hostel for working adults in cities, etc) and practiced in the Yongsan e-Sports Stadium (T/N: OGN's stadium), with the help of KeSPA.
As such, the former team's players will be given a chance to be drafted into the remaining teams. However, players who fail to be drafted will receive a public notification for waver (T/N: No idea what this means?), or realistically, have to end their careers as progamers.
The method for drafting was not announced, but it is speculated that rankings and past performances in the 09-10 season will be involved in the drafting process.
Regarding this issue, KeSPA stated that "the dissolvement process has not be finalised", and that "all details will be officially announced through the press."
eSTRO's players are now: Really, Classic, hyvaa, Action, Flying, Grape, Dear and another player for a total of 8 players for the Brood War side, while the Special Force team's draft details were not announced. Special Force players are said to be continuing their practice in a house provided by Dragonfly.
On October 12 2010 15:21 Craton wrote: Classic was up-and-coming. I wonder if any team would pick him up to try and develop him given the current BW climate.
On October 12 2010 15:21 Craton wrote: Classic was up-and-coming. I wonder if any team would pick him up to try and develop him given the current BW climate.
SKT or KT fuck yeah
Or hopefully Woongjin if they miss out on Really D:
On October 12 2010 15:21 Craton wrote: Classic was up-and-coming. I wonder if any team would pick him up to try and develop him given the current BW climate.
SKT or KT fuck yeah
KT's already got a chin. Besides, w/ Flash around he'd never get to play anyway (like Barracks).
I really don't want to see any of them get picked up by SKT1 or KT (except for perhaps grape and dear - and only if they would otherwise retire). Those 2 teams have so much talent and dominance already.
All of the other teams desperately need more strength.
Oh man shit is going in BW 2 Teams gone. o.q It kinda shows us that there wont be a new BW Team anymore. So I guess that what is left will be all that we will ever see ;(. Man I wonder what the Prolegauge 2012 will look like. Damn the Mayas and 2012 damn u.
Iam really sad for the players for losing their "home and friends". I hope the get around in their new teams. If I were a lesser player on estro/hite I would retire.
On October 12 2010 14:57 JIJIyO wrote: Kinda sucks that they have to break up a family T_T God I feel so bad for eStro. Keep your heads up boys and fighting!
Well, at least we'll get some interesting players in new teams, that's always sort of exciting. ^__^ Really to Samsung please. And Action has to go to some cool team.
Koreans play Special Force? Why do they refuse to play games the rest of the world plays? Quake, Counter Strike, COD, play something that other people play.
If any team has any wits they should really draft Hyvaa, he has sick potential. Btw with 1 team out, time for teamliquid to do their own BW team and send it to korea? :D
I hate to say it and would hate for it to happen, but I feel like this is BW dying and most people will be forced to retire or switch over. SC2 only really has the monthly GSL, what if they start running other tournaments as well? Even though I don't play anymore, it'll be a very sad day when BW dies as an esport.
On October 12 2010 15:01 JWD wrote: If I was any eSTRO player I would strongly consider either retiring or moving on to SC2 (when the alternative is being chucked on to a new BW team all by myself...). Hope those of the eSTRO gamers who do want to continue playing BW can succeed on their new teams.
Well, I think that the better players like Classic, Really, or Action would probably already know people on some of these teams and hopefully they'll go in being respected since people already know that they can perform. Some of the other players though...yeah, I hope they're really dedicated to BW.
On October 12 2010 16:24 JayDee_ wrote: Koreans play Special Force? Why do they refuse to play games the rest of the world plays? Quake, Counter Strike, COD, play something that other people play.
They do. WeMade sent their CS team to WCG this year, Koreans participated in Quake Wars at the same event, COD wasn't at WCG but if it was I'm sure they would play it too. Man, they play everything, don't even worry about that.
i am actually hoping for most of the players to retire and move to SC2 so we get to see more high lvl players in GSL Season 3 / 4. plus if they put up a good show in S3 they might just get seeded.
On October 12 2010 17:39 Fadetowhite wrote: i am actually hoping for most of the players to retire and move to SC2 so we get to see more high lvl players in GSL Season 3 / 4. plus if they put up a good show in S3 they might just get seeded.
That's a selfish attitude... i'd much rather see them in a game where they have been dedicated for years and practiced so heavily for, it's far more impressive use of their skills anyway. Action looked like the potential to be one of the top Zergs in future i'd hate to see someone like that just go and be another boring SC2 Zerg, with no potential for his great defiler skill or anything really. Same with Flying and Classic both looked good, especially impressed with Flyings PvZ.
the bw scene is crumbling, but at least it's not gone. i'm gonna take what i can get and watch PL, even if there are two fewer teams. it'll be interesting to see the new teams and how the new members will contribute.
i hope that bad team dissolving helps the competition to become closer. i hated it, even though im a kt fan, that they were never touched on the top spot until round 5 where it seemed to become close (but luckily every team suddenly started sucking, so in the end the werent even touched in round 5, too)
On October 12 2010 19:15 Sanguinarius wrote: Hopefully drafting does go last to first. I think helping some of the weaker teams could make for a really exciting season.
Hmmm, what would that mean for HITE ENTUS or CJ SPARKYZ or whatever the fuck they're calling the merged team? Does that mean we get Action? Oooh I do hope so :D
Please please please KT, make sure to get Action. I don't care if you're the last team to be able to draft a player, bribe all the other teams with a year long supply of chicken or something, just get Action :<
On October 12 2010 17:39 Fadetowhite wrote: i am actually hoping for most of the players to retire and move to SC2 so we get to see more high lvl players in GSL Season 3 / 4. plus if they put up a good show in S3 they might just get seeded.
Read: "I can't wait for a proleague of my favorite game to develop 2 months after release, so I hope yours dies and joins mine instead!" It's not like there's an influx of great players of all kinds of games already, is there? These kinds of posts make me way too emotional. It's almost like being repeatedly trolled, only that the trolls are completely serious.
So here we are, why KeSPA and their setup is bad: None of these players will have a chance to negotiate a contract on their own (i.e. get best offer), even if their team is disbanding and contracts are terminated. They are going to be drafted like livestock with very little saying of their own. Their only option if they don't like the team that is picking them is to forfeit their progamer license (and/or move to SC2) I might not agree/like with what Blizzard is doing to Proleague, but this modern slavery is just disgusting, rotten and deserves to die.
On October 12 2010 19:15 Sanguinarius wrote: Hopefully drafting does go last to first. I think helping some of the weaker teams could make for a really exciting season.
Hmmm, what would that mean for HITE ENTUS or CJ SPARKYZ or whatever the fuck they're calling the merged team? Does that mean we get Action? Oooh I do hope so :D
the only fair way to do it is to pick from cj's spot. having a team make the playoffs and then improve through getting leta, horang2 and other bitpart players on a free getting the first pick would be absurd. cj hite's current zergs will just have to put in more effort to get to action's level.
actually, thinking about it, there's probably a decent chance that CJ do get action. if we assume that they draft in proleague finishing order, it might look something like:
khan - probably take really, need a terran oz - their current zerg is quite good, terran options ok, maybe take flying? stars - need terran badly, take classic. obv don't need zerg as we have zero/soulkey and kwanro was surplus to requirements cj - action obv wemade - possibly grape? don't think that hyvaa is any better than roro/shine and they only really have pure in terms of protoss mbc - hyvaa obv
Samsung Khan: Will pick Really or Classic OZ: Sames goes for what KHAN Woongjin Stars: Action or hyvaa Hite Entus: They need a zerg since Hogil isn't cut for it. So what I put in Woongjin Stars Wemade Fox: Protoss so I suggest Flying MBC : Protoss or Zerg KT: No Need SKT1: No need
This is great and much needed for BW to become a solid force. Weak teams all over the place is much worse for BW than disbandment of a single team strengthening all the others. Same goes for the Hite+CJ combo.
On October 12 2010 20:05 bluesoup wrote: So here we are, why KeSPA and their setup is bad: None of these players will have a chance to negotiate a contract on their own (i.e. get best offer), even if their team is disbanding and contracts are terminated. They are going to be drafted like livestock with very little saying of their own. Their only option if they don't like the team that is picking them is to forfeit their progamer license (and/or move to SC2) I might not agree/like with what Blizzard is doing to Proleague, but this modern slavery is just disgusting, rotten and deserves to die.
This is fucking ridiculous. modern slavery, are you nuts?
Why is everyone talking about Really getting drafted ? I am almost sure he said he hated to be a progamer and would retire in the case eSTRO disbanded.
But I thought that a few less teams would've been better. There was no audience for matches with eSTRO v. ACE for example. Ideally, they should have 8 teams, I think that would provide the best matches without having too few players.
On October 12 2010 20:05 bluesoup wrote: So here we are, why KeSPA and their setup is bad: None of these players will have a chance to negotiate a contract on their own (i.e. get best offer), even if their team is disbanding and contracts are terminated. They are going to be drafted like livestock with very little saying of their own. Their only option if they don't like the team that is picking them is to forfeit their progamer license (and/or move to SC2) I might not agree/like with what Blizzard is doing to Proleague, but this modern slavery is just disgusting, rotten and deserves to die.
This is fucking ridiculous. modern slavery, are you nuts?
So do you agree with setup where players absolutely have no control (except bailing out) on the team where they end up ? What rights do they have if they want to keep their license ? They even do not qualify for the, ridiculous by itself (see Jaedong), free-agent treatment. Can you quote example in any sport where players have less rights on choosing a team ?
So yes, I consider this to be form of modern slavery. You can voluntarily put your self in such position by signing a contract in any sport, however what bothers me in this case is that their contracts with the team are terminated due to "Force majeure" and they should be able to freely negotiate with other teams...
But no... They are still slaves to KeSPA... They are "owned" by KeSPA. They are going to be "drafted"...
To be honest, I don't really think losing eSTRO is that big of a deal. They really weren't so great of a team, at times doing worse than ACE. Hopefully good teams pick them up.
I hope Grape ends up somewhere since he really just started and has been showing some promise. It would be nice to see Classic play for Woongjin as well. I wonder if they would go after both Classic and Really now that they let some other players go.
On October 12 2010 23:47 McDonalds wrote: I hope Grape ends up somewhere since he really just started and has been showing some promise. It would be nice to see Classic play for Woongjin as well. I wonder if they would go after both Classic and Really now that they let some other players go.
Yeah, I hope someone signs Grape. He reminds me of Jonghyun from Shinee.
If the draft goes from lowest to highest ranked teams, corresponding picks may be the following:
1. Samsung Khan => Terran (Classic or Really) 2. Hwaseung OZ => Protoss (Flying) or Zerg (Action or Hyvaa) * 3. Woongjin Stars => Terran (remaining Classic or Really) 4. Hite Entus => Zerg (Action or Hyvaa) 5. WeMade FOX => Protoss (Flying) or Zerg (remaining Action or Hyvaa) 6. MBCGame Hero => B Team Player 7. SK Telecom => B Team Player 8. STX Soul => B Team Player 9. KT Rolster => B Team Player
*No idea who OZ will pick because of the team's previous Zerg + Terran success.
On October 12 2010 20:05 bluesoup wrote: So here we are, why KeSPA and their setup is bad: None of these players will have a chance to negotiate a contract on their own (i.e. get best offer), even if their team is disbanding and contracts are terminated. They are going to be drafted like livestock with very little saying of their own. Their only option if they don't like the team that is picking them is to forfeit their progamer license (and/or move to SC2) I might not agree/like with what Blizzard is doing to Proleague, but this modern slavery is just disgusting, rotten and deserves to die.
This is fucking ridiculous. modern slavery, are you nuts?
So do you agree with setup where players absolutely have no control (except bailing out) on the team where they end up ? What rights do they have if they want to keep their license ? They even do not qualify for the, ridiculous by itself (see Jaedong), free-agent treatment. Can you quote example in any sport where players have less rights on choosing a team ?
So yes, I consider this to be form of modern slavery. You can voluntarily put your self in such position by signing a contract in any sport, however what bothers me in this case is that their contracts with the team are terminated due to "Force majeure" and they should be able to freely negotiate with other teams...
But no... They are still slaves to KeSPA... They are "owned" by KeSPA. They are going to be "drafted"...
R.I.P. Estro. F*#$&^*&k KeSPA.
The contract rules are to stop teams who are willing to put more money in, dominate everything easily - which would make proleague extremely boring. Stop even using the term slavery it's an insult to people actually under those conditions. There's plenty of other sports with young athletes where the situation is far worse (notoriously child gymnasts for one).
The above also goes for hite sparkyz and cj entus. I know it's a merge and not a dissolve but my preschool soccer team merged with another team and basically it's not the same team anymore, it's a whole new team, full of awful.
Wow, so it might not be Jaedong Oz anymore? Also, I hope that the drafting order will be weighted not only on past performance but also on how many players a team lost (due to scandal or SC2) over the past years.
... however what bothers me in this case is that their contracts with the team are terminated due to "Force majeure" and they should be able to freely negotiate with other teams...
The contract rules are to stop teams who are willing to put more money in, dominate everything easily - which would make proleague extremely boring. Stop even using the term slavery it's an insult to people actually under those conditions. There's plenty of other sports with young athletes where the situation is far worse (notoriously child gymnasts for one).
I am certainly no expert, but drafts in most sports are for fresh talent (i.e. new progamers, just out of courage tornaments etc..) and they are tied to few seasons. They are legal if there is a peer union of players with which terms are also negotiated (like minimum salary for new players, etc...). If such tiny details are not followed they became modern slavery contracts and lead to bad things like current eSTRO situation.
In this case they seem only serve for lowering salaries of all progamers (since KeSPA is the teams, i.e. sponsoring corporations) and banning anybody who wishes to try different e-sport (i.e. SC2) due to their daily politics... KeSPA should be plainly illegal under any normal legal system which has anti-trust provisions, if there is no peer player union which has singed collective agreement.
I have not heard of such players union for BW or in any other e-sport. Consider another specific to e-sports that players retire very young and that any rookie binding contracts should be relatively short as players generally have short career. Recently added free-agent status in BW is a joke anyway and only applies to very seasoned players (like free, stork, etc...) in e-sport terms...
There might be worse things in world, i give you that. Existence of such does not make KeSPA any better at what they do... Or to be worthy of anybody's support. They should be publicly condemned for what they do and called the with the right name even if it hurts.
My thoughts are with former eSTRO players, and by no means i would like to insult them (or any korean progamer), but the situation in which they are in the present is just ridiculous thanks to KeSPA.
On October 13 2010 04:02 dRaW wrote: WOW, yeah looks like SC is pretty dead, HITE+CJ now estro is done... so crazy
Hite was crippled after the matchmaking scandal, estro has been floundering for years. neither of these moves are surprising nor are they indicative of brood war doomsday
... however what bothers me in this case is that their contracts with the team are terminated due to "Force majeure" and they should be able to freely negotiate with other teams...
The contract rules are to stop teams who are willing to put more money in, dominate everything easily - which would make proleague extremely boring. Stop even using the term slavery it's an insult to people actually under those conditions. There's plenty of other sports with young athletes where the situation is far worse (notoriously child gymnasts for one).
I am certainly no expert, but drafts in most sports are for fresh talent (i.e. new progamers, just out of courage tornaments etc..) and they are tied to few seasons. They are legal if there is a peer union of players with which terms are also negotiated (like minimum salary for new players, etc...). If such tiny details are not followed they became modern slavery contracts and lead to bad things like current eSTRO situation.
In this case they seem only serve for lowering salaries of all progamers (since KeSPA is the teams, i.e. sponsoring corporations) and banning anybody who wishes to try different e-sport (i.e. SC2) due to their daily politics... KeSPA should be plainly illegal under any normal legal system which has anti-trust provisions, if there is no peer player union which has singed collective agreement.
I have not heard of such players union for BW or in any other e-sport. Consider another specific to e-sports that players retire very young and that any rookie binding contracts should be relatively short as players generally have short career. Recently added free-agent status in BW is a joke anyway and only applies to very seasoned players (like free, stork, etc...) in e-sport terms...
There might be worse things in world, i give you that. Existence of such does not make KeSPA any better at what they do... Or to be worthy of anybody's support. They should be publicly condemned for what they do and called the with the right name even if it hurts.
My thoughts are with former eSTRO players, and by no means i would like to insult them (or any korean progamer), but the situation in which they are in the present is just ridiculous thanks to KeSPA.
I am very ignorant to this conversation but I find it very interesting. It would seem if they were not made free agents and allowed to find a team then its not like any other sport out there. They are established pro's, they should have a choice and if no team wanted them... sucks?
The whole system seems fucked up. The fact ppl get upset because they are called "modern slaves" could be relavent but explain to us why that is a terrible generalization and why its is so inaccurate. I understand that you love the sport but that has nothing to do with how it is ran.
Also saying something is worse in another sport as a defense is not a valid argument. (another poster said "child gymnist are treated worse, like that somehow made it ok to treat programers like cattle)
I hope the system does not work like how it has been explained but how does it work? It seems like they are almost forced into a situation after a while...
(i quoted this post because it seems to make alot of sense not because i was disagreed)
Honestly this isn't the worst thing that could happen. Bad teams fusing into stronger teams and creating more competition at the top is overall better or at least more exciting to watch. I liked eSTRO as a team but a Khan with Really? An Oz with Protoss (in case the bonjwa injures his back again)? Infinitely more interesting dynamic at the top than having some Fox vs. eSTRO matches that had like five pages of LR.
On October 12 2010 21:31 xxpack09 wrote: Hm, did TL remove the sig logos? Because I find it odd that no one ITT has one
Those are only enabled in the Broodwar forums, this is in Community News
Being an SKT fan this development is awesome, but seeing as how Proleague is in jeopardy and we are now raking over the bones of eSTRO i feel pretty ambivalent at the moment.
On October 13 2010 17:24 Waxangel wrote: Updated the OP with details on how the players will be drafted.
In short, it's pretty much a free auction to acquire a player's services. So, don't be surprised to see the rich teams get even stronger.
I am actually glad that there was more reasonable solution for the fate of players. So while it is not fun that richest teams got best of it, looking form the side of the players is they got the best (highest) offer available and were at least protected with some minimal provisions.
EPT
Really, 
hyvaa, 
Flying, 
