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i like the idea that roaches are getting a range increase..but with that given, the build time for roaches should also be increased because the 5 roach build would easily overpower a lot of early game defense providing the zerg can macro correctly.
the supply depot as a pre req is pretty dumb, and for people that say that toss need a pylon to build a gateway...let's look at how that works -- pylon build time?...chrono boosted a zealot vs 2 rines? who wins. yea i'm pretty sure the protoss were meant to have that constraint because their tier 1 unit is pretty superior to the marine.
i'm still playing terran regardless of this -- there's always a way with terran lol. but i would like to see all those noobs that go MMM against everything to stop playing terran and play the race for what it's really capable of.
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i dont think 5-rax reapers are a big problem right now.
Z- make spine crawler. roach. muta.
P- duh. stalker.
T- bunker.
i have NO problem defending a reaper rush.
i however do have a problem vs a toss that hardcore cannons b/c then i am forced to go tanks b/c everything else would just get owned.
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On October 08 2010 08:23 obnoxkid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 05:02 Champ24 wrote:On October 08 2010 04:59 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
I'd like to hear what Idra has to say about this. I don't. The dance he did when he heard about the first round of reaper nerfs made me shutter. LOL! You do know it's not him right?
Of course, it's him!
Don't pay attention that he doesn't look like idra or that idra can't speak russian or that the subtitles have nothing to do with what's actually spoken or that there's lots of different variants of the subtitles, which are about different things.
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I am so damn happy, this is pretty insane... I don't know what to say... I'd like to thank the acadamy, Idra, my parents...
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I'm not quite sure what to think of supply before rax. Something about balancing a race by tweaking with its quintessential flavor bothers me. It's like they're biting into some forbidden fruit.
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I'm a zerg player and I am slightly confused because their stats suggest that in TvZ Zergs win more than 50% of the time in all but one league. But oh well, it will all get balanced eventually I suppose.
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10387 Posts
barracks requires supply depot.. literally the stupidest thing I've heard all day, wow..
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Reapers aren't a problem anymore right now in 1v1 why add a factory requirement. By the time you get a factory.....why would u be using reapers anyway. 5 rax reaper isn't really super viable anymore imo against good zergs. reapers are becoming utterly useless.
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what i would like to see is the micro aspect of the game to be put back to pre release patch when my reactor would be grouped with factories only with reactors and tech labs with tech labs respectively so i don't make make a helion on reactor and one on the tech lab with a queued up thor or tank on the tech lab -- THAT IS REALLY ANNOYING lol.
i do like the zerg buffs tho --they really need it. i find a lot of zerg almost impossible to defend against any terran with a good tech and they're forced to go ultras, but u need like at least 2 bases to do that with some defense. at least we'll get to see plenty of tech builds with some great defense techniques now.
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On October 08 2010 09:03 ArvickHero wrote:
barracks requires supply depot.. literally the stupidest thing I've heard all day, wow..
It's actually sound. Now Terrans will have to take an eco hit (SD so early) when attempting abusive play, just like the other 2 races. There is no such thing, as free lunch. Best you get used to it.
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Banshees kill Hydras (Zergs "anti-air") cost for cost.
Marauders with Stim beat any groundunit cost for cost.
etc. etc.
Roaches defending the base got owned by-every-single-possible-attacker. Let's complain about them getting some +1 range. When getting Zerglings against Hellions is your only option, something is really going wrong...
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The entire concept of balancing that the balance team is taking now is just.... I don't know what to say. I wouldn't say much if not for the fact that this game were being so heavily marketed towards esports. Seriously, balance PvT at the lower levels so P doesnt win 60+% anymore? It's not like Terran doesn't already have a advantage early through mid against Protoss at high level.... which while hard is just being played through at the moment. But if you make T even stronger in TvP to help lower levels.. jesus...
And as many people have said, supply before barracks to nerf reapers is just silly when reaper speed is already nerfed to factory. I don't want to sound arrogant here, but Blizzard's balance philosophy just sounds fundamentally wrong.
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On October 08 2010 09:04 ReachTheSky wrote:
Reapers aren't a problem anymore right now in 1v1 why add a factory requirement. By the time you get a factory.....why would u be using reapers anyway. 5 rax reaper isn't really super viable anymore imo against good zergs. reapers are becoming utterly useless.
yea i haven't used reapers since like pre patch beta release --- any good scouter that sees it will react quickly and counter it...and now ur behind some gas and nowadays with the patch u'll be behind in minerals a lot too.
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Stegosaur
Netherlands1231 Posts
As a Zerg player I must say the Roach buff was a good call, they'll be a lot less clunky even with 4 range instead of 3 (which is a 33% upgrade, just to drive home the point). The blinking while in fungal growth thing annoyed me greatly when I've had it happen to me and I guess it's nice.
But the real meat of this announcement is in the Terran nerfs which, in my opinion, are over the top and incredibly harsh  It seems like Blizzard really hates cheese and I have to disagree with that, cheese is good for the game since it makes you actually consider being punished for a sub-optimal build (or just a greedy one) with the threat of your opponent doing something gay.
Not saying that Blizz is removing cheese altogether but it's a slippery slope.
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I don't get why Terran's are complaining about the supply before rax restriction. Removing cheesy/luck based builds from the game is a good thing for everybody. I would actually prefer if they did the same thing to Zerg, as pool before lord is pretty much suicide anyway, and it would create more standard ZvZ builds.
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On October 08 2010 09:14 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
I don't get why Terran's are complaining about the supply before rax restriction. Removing cheesy/luck based builds from the game is a good thing for everybody. I would actually prefer if they did the same thing to Zerg, as pool before lord is pretty much suicide anyway, and it would create more standard ZvZ builds.
The problem with zerg is that the 'tech requirement' wouldn't make as much sense as with toss and terran simply because the hatchery only provides 2 control.
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On October 08 2010 09:11 Stegosaur wrote:As a Zerg player I must say the Roach buff was a good call, they'll be a lot less clunky even with 4 range instead of 3 (which is a 33% upgrade, just to drive home the point). The blinking while in fungal growth thing annoyed me greatly when I've had it happen to me and I guess it's nice. But the real meat of this announcement is in the Terran nerfs which, in my opinion, are over the top and incredibly harsh It seems like Blizzard really hates cheese and I have to disagree with that, cheese is good for the game since it makes you actually consider being punished for a sub-optimal build (or just a greedy one) with the threat of your opponent doing something gay. Not saying that Blizz is removing cheese altogether but it's a slippery slope.
Cheese results in less skilled players defeating more skilled players, and adding an element of chance/randomness to the game, which I completely disagree with. In a game with less cheese, the better player is rewarded more for his skill, and the newby cheeser has to learn how to actually play the game.
Besides, Blizzard rightly wants SC2 to be a spectator sport, and with a large number of cheesey games under 10 minutes, its bad for the game.
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On October 08 2010 09:11 Stegosaur wrote:As a Zerg player I must say the Roach buff was a good call, they'll be a lot less clunky even with 4 range instead of 3 (which is a 33% upgrade, just to drive home the point). The blinking while in fungal growth thing annoyed me greatly when I've had it happen to me and I guess it's nice. But the real meat of this announcement is in the Terran nerfs which, in my opinion, are over the top and incredibly harsh It seems like Blizzard really hates cheese and I have to disagree with that, cheese is good for the game since it makes you actually consider being punished for a sub-optimal build (or just a greedy one) with the threat of your opponent doing something gay. Not saying that Blizz is removing cheese altogether but it's a slippery slope.
i completely agree with you. any good player can fend off cheese. (i must admit i have some trouble with 6 pool but as soon as i scout it (by this time my rax is ~50% built) i just waste minerals and throw down a bunker or depot and keep repairing with 3-4 SCV on both depots.
I DONT KNOW WHAT T IS GOING TO DO VS 6 POOL NOW! =(
(thts me whining)
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On October 08 2010 02:34 NATO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 02:31 snowdrift wrote:On October 08 2010 02:29 FabledIntegral wrote:
If they really want to make roaches useful mid/late game, make it an UPGRADE not standard 4 range!!! They already need a speed upgrade, I don't want it to be a crappy unit that needs ten thousand upgrades to be simply decent. That's how Terran works 
How sadly misinformed you are. Look at the units Terran has, without upgrades, and then compare them to the units Zerg has, without upgrades. Terran is in such a good position, comparatively, because their units are actually good without ups.
Have you ever seen slow lings, roaches, or blings do anything significant past the early game? Absolutely not. Can you use Hellions or Marauders without their respective upgrades and have them still be useful? Of course.
If you were being sarcastic, I apologize.
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On October 08 2010 09:19 WLV wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 09:11 Stegosaur wrote:As a Zerg player I must say the Roach buff was a good call, they'll be a lot less clunky even with 4 range instead of 3 (which is a 33% upgrade, just to drive home the point). The blinking while in fungal growth thing annoyed me greatly when I've had it happen to me and I guess it's nice. But the real meat of this announcement is in the Terran nerfs which, in my opinion, are over the top and incredibly harsh It seems like Blizzard really hates cheese and I have to disagree with that, cheese is good for the game since it makes you actually consider being punished for a sub-optimal build (or just a greedy one) with the threat of your opponent doing something gay. Not saying that Blizz is removing cheese altogether but it's a slippery slope. i completely agree with you. any good player can fend off cheese. (i must admit i have some trouble with 6 pool but as soon as i scout it (by this time my rax is ~50% built) i just waste minerals and throw down a bunker or depot and keep repairing with 3-4 SCV on both depots. I DONT KNOW WHAT T IS GOING TO DO VS 6 POOL NOW! =( (thts me whining)
You waste minerals defending a 6 pool? All you have to do is survive and its gg, as Zerg's economy is completely in shambles.
Terran is the strongest race against a 6 pool, its called a wallin, and it completely shuts down 6 pool. No zerg in his right mind would 6 pool a terran before or after this patch, except possibly at low levels of play. This is a complete non-issue.
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