EPTI'll just hope that JD holds out for another year or so and we can watch some more JvF.
Jaedong on his future in SC2 - Page 11
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revy
United States1524 Posts
I'll just hope that JD holds out for another year or so and we can watch some more JvF. | ||
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pieisamazing
United States1234 Posts
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
Watch Nal_rA "old boy" series. Listen to what even some of the less skilled pros say. "You lost that battle because you needed 1 more zealot." or "you transfered you probes a little too late so you had a few less dragoons" (these are not the exact examples they use, but very similar). In a game where basically everyone know WHAT to do, it becomes a question of who can do it BEST and FASTEST. That's where Jaedong really shined. Now, that is NOT the case in sc2. Right now, pros are being surprised by new builds and tactics all the time. Mechanics are incredibly important, but vastly superior mechanics do not guarantee a win quite yet in SC2. So basically my point is that Jaedong will not DOMINATE. He will still be beatable. He will be amazing due to those great mechanics and he is also a very smart, innovative player. But, people seem to think that he will just go undefeated as soon as he learns the hotkeys. Now that being said, when many years pass and SC2 becomes as understood as BW, someone like Flash and Jaedong will dominate anyone with inferior mechanics. Note: I realize that I over-simplified what it takes to be good in the BW scene, but my point is still valid (replying here because I don't want to waste my 200th post  ) Reply: Jaedong is an IdrA on steroids with better decision making and amazing innovation. So not really the same because I feel like IdrA hasn't gotten to a point where he needs to base his strategies off his opponents.Reply 2: I do feel like Jaedong will be the best or one of the best, but he will still lose games to stupid "new" builds. I don't want someone to see that and think "how was this guy a sc1 god?" | ||
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lindn
Sweden833 Posts
On October 04 2010 06:50 Newguy wrote: Is this site actually legit? I didn't even know that Jaedong played any starcraft 2. one of the biggest E-sport sites in sweden, at least the biggest for E-sport news. so yeah, they're pretty legit and they go to most E-sport events On October 04 2010 10:34 Beef Noodles wrote: In a game where basically everyone know WHAT to do, it becomes a question of who can do it BEST and FASTEST. That's where Jaedong really shined. Now, that is NOT the case in sc2. Right now, pros are being surprised by new builds and tactics all the time. Mechanics are incredibly important, but vastly superior mechanics do not guarantee a win quite yet in SC2. So basically my point is that Jaedong will not DOMINATE. He will still be beatable. He will be amazing due to those great mechanics and he is also a very smart, innovative player. But, people seem to think that he will just go undefeated as soon as he learns the hotkeys. soooooo... basically you're saying jaedong is a korean idra? | ||
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SoL[9]
Portugal1370 Posts
 I tho that was 5 more years... But he do the right decision for him.GSL 2/3 Winner = Jaedong Edit: If Jaedong thing to change Flash will to so GSL 2/3 Winner = Jaedong or Flash  | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On October 04 2010 10:34 Beef Noodles wrote: Looking at some of the posts, I think people need to remember that the STATE of BW and SC2 are SO different right now. Jaedong was the best of the best because he had the greatest zerg mechanics of all time. He also had AMAZING decision making and inventive builds, but still mechanics played the most important role in a game like BW because everything was pretty much figured out. People understood the game so well that they could just glance at a situation and know exactly what went wrong. Watch Nal_rA "old boy" series. Listen to what even some of the less skilled pros say. "You lost that battle because you needed 1 more zealot." or "you transfered you probes a little too late so you had a few less dragoons" (these not the exact examples they use, but very similar). In a game where basically everyone know WHAT to do, it becomes a question of who can do it BEST and FASTEST. That's where Jaedong really shined. Now, that is NOT the case in sc2. Right now, pros are being surprised by new builds and tactics all the time. Mechanics are incredibly important, but vastly superior mechanics do not guarantee a win quite yet in SC2. So basically my point is that Jaedong will not DOMINATE. He will still be beatable. He will be amazing due to those great mechanics and he is also a very smart, innovative player. But, people seem to think that he will just go undefeated as soon as he learns the hotkeys. Now that being said, when many years pass and SC2 becomes as understood as BW, someone like Flash and Jaedong will dominate anyone with inferior mechanics. Note: I realize that I over-simplified what it takes to be good in the BW scene, but my point is still valid this is a guy who has the apm to never forget that inject larvae, always throw down that mule at around 50 energy, turns on that chronoboost, stays low mineral and gas all game, etc. not to mention that he has a very solid understanding of SC1; that previous knowledge certainly wouldn't hurt in SCII. So if people like cool and idra are doing well right now, considering that JD most certainly has what they have had in order to succeed in esports, how would he do? If you consider cool or basically any other player right now to be "dominant", why would JD not be able to be as dominant? that's why people are so excited lol. | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
The tyrant is coming. | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
His point remains valid actually. Look how far Idra got compared to Cool. Idra has fantastic mechanics, but pure mechanics will not get you as far as they would in BW. However, Nada showed in his match against TLO that BW mechanics definitely help a lot, even if you're unfamiliar with SC2 strategy/tactics. Also, if there's a race that rewards top notch mechanics, it is Zerg. | ||
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zoLo
United States5896 Posts
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On October 04 2010 10:34 Beef Noodles wrote: Looking at some of the posts, I think people need to remember that the STATE of BW and SC2 are SO different right now. Jaedong was the best of the best because he had the greatest zerg mechanics of all time. He also had AMAZING decision making and inventive builds, but still mechanics played the most important role in a game like BW because everything was pretty much figured out. People understood the game so well that they could just glance at a situation and know exactly what went wrong. Watch Nal_rA "old boy" series. Listen to what even some of the less skilled pros say. "You lost that battle because you needed 1 more zealot." or "you transfered you probes a little too late so you had a few less dragoons" (these are not the exact examples they use, but very similar). In a game where basically everyone know WHAT to do, it becomes a question of who can do it BEST and FASTEST. That's where Jaedong really shined. Now, that is NOT the case in sc2. Right now, pros are being surprised by new builds and tactics all the time. Mechanics are incredibly important, but vastly superior mechanics do not guarantee a win quite yet in SC2. So basically my point is that Jaedong will not DOMINATE. He will still be beatable. He will be amazing due to those great mechanics and he is also a very smart, innovative player. But, people seem to think that he will just go undefeated as soon as he learns the hotkeys. Now that being said, when many years pass and SC2 becomes as understood as BW, someone like Flash and Jaedong will dominate anyone with inferior mechanics. Note: I realize that I over-simplified what it takes to be good in the BW scene, but my point is still valid (replying here because I don't want to waste my 200th post ) Reply: Jaedong is an IdrA on steroids with better decision making and amazing innovation. So not really the same because I feel like IdrA hasn't gotten to a point where he needs to base his strategies off his opponents.Reply 2: I do feel like Jaedong will be the best or one of the best, but he will still lose games to stupid "new" builds. I don't want someone to see that and think "how was this guy a sc1 god?" I would actually argue that the SC2 "metagame" (what people seem to call it) is actually pretty stable. Of course it's not as stable as Brood War, but the huge community of experienced RTS players along with replays and match histories has actually caused the game to stabilize fairly quickly. Of course you still have the occasional creative or suprising play here and there and each patch will change things, but I think people don't really see how much of SC2 has already been "figured out". Just look at tournaments like the GSL. We do have standard play and precision timing builds. Of course trends slowly change, but a large part of that is due to the evolution of maps, which is also constantly fueling the evolution of Brood War as well. The concepts that govern Brood War are, for the most part, the same concepts that govern SC2. Economics, unit control, scouting, territory control, etc. Good RTS players are successful not just because they memorize a particular game, but because they display mastery of these concepts and are able to make use of them better than other players. The units, build orders, and other game mechanics are merely details. This can be seen by the fact that the top gamers in SC2, are unsurprisingly, people that were also very good at previous RTS games. People like Jaedong and Flash don't shine in Brood War because they are just mechanically good in a game that has been "figured out". They shine because the way they are able to think and manage their gameplay is simply on another level. Of course Jaedong will lose games. He loses plenty of games in Brood War too. But "new builds" already are few and far inbetween in SC2 and the ones that do show up are only new until they are used for the first time. The vast majority of games in SC2 are still incredibly predictable and will, for the most part, likely stay that way even as people transition between different trends in gameplay. | ||
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
On October 04 2010 10:41 Navi wrote: this is a guy who has the apm to never forget that inject larvae, always throw down that mule at around 50 energy, turns on that chronoboost, stays low mineral and gas all game, etc. not to mention that he has a very solid understanding of SC1; that previous knowledge certainly wouldn't hurt in SCII. So if people like cool and idra are doing well right now, considering that JD most certainly has what they have had in order to succeed in esports, how would he do? If you consider cool or basically any other player right now to be "dominant", why would JD not be able to be as dominant? that's why people are so excited lol. Well, of course he'd be dominant, but if you look at SC2 right now, it's not the high APM or super mechanics people that are winning, it's those who are grasping the entire scope of what is possible in the game faster. It's why Fruit Dealer won the GSL. He has the best command of what is possible (right now) in the game, combined with the skill to pull it off. Not saying that JD couldn't also do this of course, but I agree with Beef Noodles that the game is so young, and so not hashed out yet at all, that there will be surprises in every new tourney as people figure out the game more and more. And if you don't keep up with it, you lose. Really, it's why I find SC2 more entertaining now than BW even though all the best players still play BW. Watching the game transform before our eyes as people figure out new strats and counters to those strats, etc, is so damn exciting to see. | ||
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Domonic
United States135 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
On October 04 2010 10:37 SoL[9] wrote: I'm betting my balls that even if JD and Flash switch right now, they won't participate / qualify for the finals of GSL 2/3. Really, it takes some time. A lot of the skills from BW need to be unlearned first.GSL 2/3 Winner = Jaedong Edit: If Jaedong thing to change Flash will to so GSL 2/3 Winner = Jaedong or Flash | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
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Kpyolysis32
553 Posts
All of us Protoss players are doomed. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On October 04 2010 06:48 Tabbris wrote: HOLYY.....Shit! Cool may lose his zerg hero statues Nope, Boxer maintained his hero status. Cool will forever be known as the first tourney winner. Although he really needs to win the main tourney to cement his name, and I will be pulling for him to do it! Also, Jaedong in sc2... I'd never watch broodwar again. | ||
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XFire
United States131 Posts
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NewDeal
Sweden26 Posts
What? I tried to get my head around this statement but alas, I could not. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On October 04 2010 10:34 Beef Noodles wrote: Looking at some of the posts, I think people need to remember that the STATE of BW and SC2 are SO different right now. Jaedong was the best of the best because he had the greatest zerg mechanics of all time. He also had AMAZING decision making and inventive builds, but still mechanics played the most important role in a game like BW because everything was pretty much figured out. People understood the game so well that they could just glance at a situation and know exactly what went wrong. Watch Nal_rA "old boy" series. Listen to what even some of the less skilled pros say. "You lost that battle because you needed 1 more zealot." or "you transfered you probes a little too late so you had a few less dragoons" (these are not the exact examples they use, but very similar). In a game where basically everyone know WHAT to do, it becomes a question of who can do it BEST and FASTEST. That's where Jaedong really shined. Now, that is NOT the case in sc2. Right now, pros are being surprised by new builds and tactics all the time. Mechanics are incredibly important, but vastly superior mechanics do not guarantee a win quite yet in SC2. So basically my point is that Jaedong will not DOMINATE. He will still be beatable. He will be amazing due to those great mechanics and he is also a very smart, innovative player. But, people seem to think that he will just go undefeated as soon as he learns the hotkeys. Now that being said, when many years pass and SC2 becomes as understood as BW, someone like Flash and Jaedong will dominate anyone with inferior mechanics. Note: I realize that I over-simplified what it takes to be good in the BW scene, but my point is still valid (replying here because I don't want to waste my 200th post ) Reply: Jaedong is an IdrA on steroids with better decision making and amazing innovation. So not really the same because I feel like IdrA hasn't gotten to a point where he needs to base his strategies off his opponents.Reply 2: I do feel like Jaedong will be the best or one of the best, but he will still lose games to stupid "new" builds. I don't want someone to see that and think "how was this guy a sc1 god?" Ya, pretty much. But, seriously, Cool had some good tactics and good build orders but I duno, to me, nothing wow spectacular. In the end, it was his mechanics that won imo. He out-macroed ITR like a king, and Jaedong is going to do the same. I, from day one, never fell into the camp of sc2 is too easy. That's just lol. | ||
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