okay what you need to do is you need to put on some sweather with long arms and then you put tricks up their sleeves.

toss needs to make the zerg worried about what the fuck he's going to do this game so the zerg is afraid to power. 9 vs 6 and 6 vs 9 is still incredibly hard.. (I tend to win that matchup very often by doing weird shit like 4 zealot dropping into reaver into 2 stargate sair, or just 4-5 gateway zealot goon rush.. )

but don't be afraid to proxy gate.. and then every now and then you just straight out beat them with standard 2 gate into zeal temp too.. =]

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

December 04 2002 23:38 GMT

#22

lol@drone ;D
so awesome

ToKoreaWithLove

Norway10161 Posts

December 04 2002 23:40 GMT

#23

mass reavers is ghey late game .. 12 reavers with goon and templar support is always usefull

maleorderbride

United States2916 Posts

December 05 2002 00:04 GMT

#24

do u have the rep kiddie? im not sure if i have ever played someone as skilled as Xd's~Kiwi, but professional players are certainly above his level, and i seriously doubt there is "nothing [they] can do". if anyone here has an excellent zvp, i would love to play you. im BwG-ToasT on USWEST or maleorderbride on EUROPE, i am in wgtour also with that same name.

p.s. im not saying im "excellent", ive simply found that the best way to get better is find someone who completely owns you and play them until you can actually win occasionally.

maleorderbride

United States2916 Posts

December 05 2002 01:27 GMT

#25

i just watched the rep of that game...he really didnt make any errors, excect possible making more archons, or harrrassment of some kind. those cracklings truyl were completely overpowering. and if someone suggest expanding more, it was impossible, he already had all the expands he could hold.

option4

United States104 Posts

December 05 2002 01:28 GMT

#26

one of the best things you can do pvz imo is what drone and psylo said. very rarely can you just out power a zerg so you need some type of cheeze~~ dt and storm drops work well on lotem, but on other maps reaver drops and stockpiling sairs can be real effective too. personally i think the key is just to constantly adjust to what the other player is doing. no 1 strat works all the time. keep scouting and countering and never go into a flank position on lotem (meanwhile the entire time gogoggoog cheeze) and you will notice a big improvement in your pvz imho. o and orangeterran

there is nothing wrong with 'kiwi's zerg' lay off and quit being such a fag off battle net too. idiot.

btw
hi drone ^______________________________________________^
hi naz ^________________________________________________^

FeeLdAfuRy

Australia290 Posts

December 05 2002 01:56 GMT

#27

Proxy gates aren't really an option unless you trust the player, Proxy gate VS a 9 pool and your a dead man, if they hack you die regardless of skill. THats just my 2 cence anyhoo.
I seem to recall Kiwi's zerg bitchslapping smuft, and a great deal of the b.net community I just remember that 1 game particuarly, in wgtour season 1. I really dont think you can call his zerg bad by anyones standards!

Liquid`Drone

Norway28747 Posts

December 05 2002 02:18 GMT

#28

I've often won games with proxy gate even when the zerg discovered in time

and maphack isn't even an issue now a days.. I really haven't suspected my opponent of hacking in more than 1000 games.. =/

btw option why do you keep giving naz the bigger smile?

another btw regarding kiwi, keep in mind that he did beat naz zvp in the teamliquid tournament. :p

RowdyBob

Australia206 Posts

December 05 2002 02:53 GMT

#29

Kiwi's Z owned me zvt on WgTour

Suicide

United States475 Posts

December 05 2002 04:12 GMT

#30

P doesn't need to proxy gate, if P powers along with Zerg and has a 1:3 Expo ratio they can generally still win thanks to Storm. Whats even better for that is if they try to contain you. Its amazing how many people will contain you and then lose 2-3 expos to a 4 dt drop. And what i like even more about that is If i have dts, call me what you want but i make dark archons and get maelstorm. No more running from storm for those hydras. Or Even stopping 2 ultras from attacking is good.

Elsi

United Kingdom8173 Posts

December 05 2002 04:23 GMT

#31

Practise makes perfect.

Practise Practise Practise.

Ask Kiwi for a RE, Best out of 5 on the same MAP and same MU.

HF~^~!

[GiTM]-Ace

United States4935 Posts

December 05 2002 04:33 GMT

#32

goon/reaver ownz about anything imo. Well except those mass drops.But usually opponent sees ur goons goes mass lings then bam reavers its funny

Roman

United States2595 Posts

December 05 2002 08:14 GMT

#33

ive found that arbs work well when you need to get out of a mess. If you are being contained real hard, and dont think you can break it without losing army, take an island (already have ur nat ofcourse), and get arbs. You might also want to shuttle of units and some probes to a ledge of another main and cannon it and expo it. After that when you get recall, what I have found works well is either:
1) if your opponent has mostly hydra contain, recall on one of his expos, prefferably another main with about 1/4 of your army, if he recalls his army, run a bit behind him and trap his hydras and flank/storm them... slaughters lots of numbers. If he doesnt send most of his forces back to help, and if you cant break him with what you have, stay patient, get another arb, and switch off recalling expos. Make sure ur arbs dont die, get some cannons so u can dance around scourge
2) if he contains with lurks, either sair/stasis his ovies and use arbs for cloack, or if that cant work (which it usually cant) just guerrilla recalls, plan and time ur attack make him recall his supoort units to help, and use your remaining forces to break. You can recall your z/temp and keep your goon for the break.

I hope that helped...

Roman

United States2595 Posts

December 05 2002 08:16 GMT

#34

P.S. Timing, good scouting is everything

halpmeh

United States333 Posts

December 05 2002 08:34 GMT

#35

expand vs 1 base hydra and get a bunch of sunkens with ur extra minerals as you mass upgraded muta...he won't be able to stop you as it's dangerous for him to move out without all his hydra upgrades and at least +1 attack...

-angel

Rekrul

Korea (South)17174 Posts

December 05 2002 11:41 GMT

#36

option speaks from experience -_-
kakakakakaakakak

Pomozite

Croatia647 Posts

December 05 2002 12:13 GMT

#37

On December 05 2002 13:33 [GiTM]-Ace wrote:
goon/reaver ownz about anything imo. Well except those mass drops.But usually opponent sees ur goons goes mass lings then bam reavers its funny

Mass mutas own Goons.
PvZ on lt is unbalanced. When I watch gosu PvZ replays zerg can make some mistakes, but still win. There is no good toss counter vs ultras and defilers spells.

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

December 05 2002 12:24 GMT

#38

actually archon/dt is incredible vs ultra/def.
but its hard to have that much gas.

[GiTM]-Ace

United States4935 Posts

December 05 2002 14:04 GMT

#39

On December 05 2002 21:13 Pomozite wrote:

Show nested quote +

Mass mutas own Goons.
PvZ on lt is unbalanced. When I watch gosu PvZ replays zerg can make some mistakes, but still win. There is no good toss counter vs ultras and defilers spells.

yea but u would scout that and not go that.I was talking about a/g crack/dra.If they go mass mutas then chnge the strat

FeeLdAfuRy

Australia290 Posts

December 05 2002 16:34 GMT

#40

hmmm I disagree Ace, the zerg has alot more flexibility than you do. They also dont have to go "mass" mutas as such either, 12 will do for the purpose of making reavers die. Switching tech takes 2 seconds for a zerg whereas its longer and more expensive for the toss player!@

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