PvZ on LT

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

December 04 2002 21:20 GMT

I just played a pvz on LT where i swear i played.. pretty much perfect(of course that cant be true but it felt like it).

It was vs Xd's~kiwi, about 25-30 minutes.

At the end, when i asked what i did wrong he said 'i had 12 hats'.

I then repeated 'what did i do wrong'.

he told me there wasn't anything I could do.

What's your guys' opinion on long range pvz on non island maps?

I find it extremely one sided.

btw all kiwi did was go mass crack/hydra with ups and powered like crazy.

I went dt/zeal/storm/arch/really light goon/obs.

OrangeTerran

United States963 Posts

December 04 2002 21:24 GMT

don't let him contain you with lurker and expand with alot of cannons at each expansion

OrangeTerran

United States963 Posts

December 04 2002 21:24 GMT

get some drop or dt to delay his expanding as well

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

December 04 2002 21:34 GMT

I didn't want *help* i wanted to know your opinions on it.

Also, questions for you guys:

In zvz, what do the gosus do if the opponent goes something like 3hat 1base hydra(cause i always see them go with 11 pool builds).

and one other thing, im dying for good games here.
Im a regular sc player, no one knows me.
I would love to play every person here, so if anyone wants to pls message me on DaRk.Flaw- ill either be on useast or europe(prolly useast).

Liquid`Nazgul

22427 Posts

December 04 2002 21:42 GMT

he told me there wasn't anything I could do.

That pretty much sums it up yes.

Fox

United States408 Posts

December 04 2002 21:47 GMT

Long position z vs p. If you are talking best vs best on LT. 12/6, 3/9, 6/9. Basically you have you outplay him a bunch. But at the top levels it doesn't happen much so zerg win.

Honestly besides microing with perfect timing/macro perfect. You still can lose.

Gl

Shit Naz knows man, sometimes you play at your best and fucking hydra/lurker/ling are just way to much.

Fox

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

December 04 2002 21:51 GMT

Im considering playing zvz instead of pvz.

Oh, and nazgul, could I pvp you sometime?

Just once ;P

rei

United States3594 Posts

December 04 2002 21:54 GMT

On December 05 2002 06:34 Kiddie wrote:
I didn't want *help* i wanted to know your opinions on it.

Also, questions for you guys:

In zvz, what do the gosus do if the opponent goes something like 3hat 1base hydra(cause i always see them go with 11 pool builds).

and one other thing, im dying for good games here.
Im a regular sc player, no one knows me.
I would love to play every person here, so if anyone wants to pls message me on DaRk.Flaw- ill either be on useast or europe(prolly useast).

hey man play with me, I belief we met during a game of wgtour. you defeated me, as protoss. I belief we can be partice partners.. my tvp is very good, but i just keep trying to perfect the bio terran freak taught me earlier on. it is mad power rush at the first 7 mins^^
oh yeah my account is art_of_ntt please look for me on europe and west and some times east

rei

United States3594 Posts

December 04 2002 21:55 GMT

oh yeah "my tvp is very good" i meant vs my tvz is very good O.o please don't take offense on it everybody, i just some newbi hehe

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

December 04 2002 21:58 GMT

#10

Oh yeah
That was an amusing biotech rush.
Should have attacked sooner was its only problem.

AlmostSexy

United States150 Posts

December 04 2002 22:07 GMT

#11

Kiddie, i msged you today and you ignored=p Im on the name Stim)NinjA now

OrangeTerran

United States963 Posts

December 04 2002 22:09 GMT

#12

i don't see what you need an opinion on
there's always something you could do, especially if you got raped by kiwi's zerg

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

December 04 2002 22:12 GMT

#13

ok, im going to try to be good mannered here.

First of all, if you think kiwi's zerg isnt good, try playing it pvz ok?

And second of all, this was a post for friendly conversation, you can't help me with the damn game if you don't even know what happened in it.

And ninja, i didnt ignore you, i dont think i was there ;P

TeCh)PsylO

United States3552 Posts

December 04 2002 22:13 GMT

#14

if pvz gets to crzy crack lings, your chances are limited

but i think the best bet is to not try to work mid, but rather distract/chz with temp drops, sairs, etc.. take islands and fend for life

my thoughts: dont let z get crzy crack lings.

RowdyBob

Australia206 Posts

December 04 2002 22:37 GMT

#15

Fully upg ultras are too powerful pvz imo.

Liquid`Ret

Netherlands4522 Posts

December 04 2002 22:45 GMT

#16

gotta expand fast....

then just upgrade/power with cannons to 10 gates.
zvz vs 3 hatch hydra...u just mutal gensei~
mass mutals with quicker expand as usual...and whenever he moves out of his base u hit his main hard..and put as many sunks up at ur exp as u need to stop his hydras...this could involve 8 sunks or so

but the thing is..whenever he moves u just comletely kill his main or drones..just do heavy damage...while he cant kill u cuz of the sunks...gg~ hydra sucks

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

December 04 2002 22:50 GMT

#17

so u dont go lurker contain?

Cause the one game i tried 3hat hydra vs fast muta/ling i attacked as his expo was finishing, and i had 3 spores up at my main

Stim_Abuser

United States1277 Posts

December 04 2002 23:15 GMT

#18

you said you played "perfect" hm i doubt it because you could obviously of stormed better,expanded more, herrassed better i could go on all day :p maybe you just played to the best of your abilities which made it feel perfect but it wasnt enough as we all see

(

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

December 04 2002 23:19 GMT

#19

i played.. pretty much perfect(of course that cant be true but it felt like it).

;D

Rekrul

Korea (South)17174 Posts

December 04 2002 23:27 GMT

#20

hydra suck in zvz really bad :o

Liquid`Drone

Norway28820 Posts

December 04 2002 23:31 GMT

#21

okay what you need to do is you need to put on some sweather with long arms and then you put tricks up their sleeves.

toss needs to make the zerg worried about what the fuck he's going to do this game so the zerg is afraid to power. 9 vs 6 and 6 vs 9 is still incredibly hard.. (I tend to win that matchup very often by doing weird shit like 4 zealot dropping into reaver into 2 stargate sair, or just 4-5 gateway zealot goon rush.. )

but don't be afraid to proxy gate.. and then every now and then you just straight out beat them with standard 2 gate into zeal temp too.. =]

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

December 04 2002 23:38 GMT

#22

lol@drone ;D
so awesome

ToKoreaWithLove

Norway10161 Posts

December 04 2002 23:40 GMT

#23

mass reavers is ghey late game .. 12 reavers with goon and templar support is always usefull

maleorderbride

United States2916 Posts

December 05 2002 00:04 GMT

#24

do u have the rep kiddie? im not sure if i have ever played someone as skilled as Xd's~Kiwi, but professional players are certainly above his level, and i seriously doubt there is "nothing [they] can do". if anyone here has an excellent zvp, i would love to play you. im BwG-ToasT on USWEST or maleorderbride on EUROPE, i am in wgtour also with that same name.

p.s. im not saying im "excellent", ive simply found that the best way to get better is find someone who completely owns you and play them until you can actually win occasionally.

maleorderbride

United States2916 Posts

December 05 2002 01:27 GMT

#25

i just watched the rep of that game...he really didnt make any errors, excect possible making more archons, or harrrassment of some kind. those cracklings truyl were completely overpowering. and if someone suggest expanding more, it was impossible, he already had all the expands he could hold.

option4

United States104 Posts

December 05 2002 01:28 GMT

#26

one of the best things you can do pvz imo is what drone and psylo said. very rarely can you just out power a zerg so you need some type of cheeze~~ dt and storm drops work well on lotem, but on other maps reaver drops and stockpiling sairs can be real effective too. personally i think the key is just to constantly adjust to what the other player is doing. no 1 strat works all the time. keep scouting and countering and never go into a flank position on lotem (meanwhile the entire time gogoggoog cheeze) and you will notice a big improvement in your pvz imho. o and orangeterran

there is nothing wrong with 'kiwi's zerg' lay off and quit being such a fag off battle net too. idiot.

btw
hi drone ^______________________________________________^
hi naz ^________________________________________________^

FeeLdAfuRy

Australia290 Posts

December 05 2002 01:56 GMT

#27

Proxy gates aren't really an option unless you trust the player, Proxy gate VS a 9 pool and your a dead man, if they hack you die regardless of skill. THats just my 2 cence anyhoo.
I seem to recall Kiwi's zerg bitchslapping smuft, and a great deal of the b.net community I just remember that 1 game particuarly, in wgtour season 1. I really dont think you can call his zerg bad by anyones standards!

Liquid`Drone

Norway28820 Posts

December 05 2002 02:18 GMT

#28

I've often won games with proxy gate even when the zerg discovered in time

and maphack isn't even an issue now a days.. I really haven't suspected my opponent of hacking in more than 1000 games.. =/

btw option why do you keep giving naz the bigger smile?

another btw regarding kiwi, keep in mind that he did beat naz zvp in the teamliquid tournament. :p

RowdyBob

Australia206 Posts

December 05 2002 02:53 GMT

#29

Kiwi's Z owned me zvt on WgTour

Suicide

United States475 Posts

December 05 2002 04:12 GMT

#30

P doesn't need to proxy gate, if P powers along with Zerg and has a 1:3 Expo ratio they can generally still win thanks to Storm. Whats even better for that is if they try to contain you. Its amazing how many people will contain you and then lose 2-3 expos to a 4 dt drop. And what i like even more about that is If i have dts, call me what you want but i make dark archons and get maelstorm. No more running from storm for those hydras. Or Even stopping 2 ultras from attacking is good.

Elsi

United Kingdom8173 Posts

December 05 2002 04:23 GMT

#31

Practise makes perfect.

Practise Practise Practise.

Ask Kiwi for a RE, Best out of 5 on the same MAP and same MU.

HF~^~!

[GiTM]-Ace

United States4935 Posts

December 05 2002 04:33 GMT

#32

goon/reaver ownz about anything imo. Well except those mass drops.But usually opponent sees ur goons goes mass lings then bam reavers its funny

Roman

United States2595 Posts

December 05 2002 08:14 GMT

#33

ive found that arbs work well when you need to get out of a mess. If you are being contained real hard, and dont think you can break it without losing army, take an island (already have ur nat ofcourse), and get arbs. You might also want to shuttle of units and some probes to a ledge of another main and cannon it and expo it. After that when you get recall, what I have found works well is either:
1) if your opponent has mostly hydra contain, recall on one of his expos, prefferably another main with about 1/4 of your army, if he recalls his army, run a bit behind him and trap his hydras and flank/storm them... slaughters lots of numbers. If he doesnt send most of his forces back to help, and if you cant break him with what you have, stay patient, get another arb, and switch off recalling expos. Make sure ur arbs dont die, get some cannons so u can dance around scourge
2) if he contains with lurks, either sair/stasis his ovies and use arbs for cloack, or if that cant work (which it usually cant) just guerrilla recalls, plan and time ur attack make him recall his supoort units to help, and use your remaining forces to break. You can recall your z/temp and keep your goon for the break.

I hope that helped...

Roman

United States2595 Posts

December 05 2002 08:16 GMT

#34

P.S. Timing, good scouting is everything

halpmeh

United States333 Posts

December 05 2002 08:34 GMT

#35

expand vs 1 base hydra and get a bunch of sunkens with ur extra minerals as you mass upgraded muta...he won't be able to stop you as it's dangerous for him to move out without all his hydra upgrades and at least +1 attack...

-angel

Rekrul

Korea (South)17174 Posts

December 05 2002 11:41 GMT

#36

option speaks from experience -_-
kakakakakaakakak

Pomozite

Croatia647 Posts

December 05 2002 12:13 GMT

#37

On December 05 2002 13:33 [GiTM]-Ace wrote:
goon/reaver ownz about anything imo. Well except those mass drops.But usually opponent sees ur goons goes mass lings then bam reavers its funny

Mass mutas own Goons.
PvZ on lt is unbalanced. When I watch gosu PvZ replays zerg can make some mistakes, but still win. There is no good toss counter vs ultras and defilers spells.

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

December 05 2002 12:24 GMT

#38

actually archon/dt is incredible vs ultra/def.
but its hard to have that much gas.

[GiTM]-Ace

United States4935 Posts

December 05 2002 14:04 GMT

#39

On December 05 2002 21:13 Pomozite wrote:

Show nested quote +

Mass mutas own Goons.
PvZ on lt is unbalanced. When I watch gosu PvZ replays zerg can make some mistakes, but still win. There is no good toss counter vs ultras and defilers spells.

yea but u would scout that and not go that.I was talking about a/g crack/dra.If they go mass mutas then chnge the strat

FeeLdAfuRy

Australia290 Posts

December 05 2002 16:34 GMT

#40

hmmm I disagree Ace, the zerg has alot more flexibility than you do. They also dont have to go "mass" mutas as such either, 12 will do for the purpose of making reavers die. Switching tech takes 2 seconds for a zerg whereas its longer and more expensive for the toss player!@

surv

Belgium337 Posts

June 21 2003 10:18 GMT

#41

My opinion is, toss will always lose vs a good zerg on non island maps unless u have a almost perfekt sair/reaver. And not a lot toss players have the speed and skilz to pull that strat off. Zerg CAN counter but this still doesnt mean that toss will lose the game if very litlle mistakes are made.
^_^ V