EPTa faster tech should be considered in tvz nowadays.
[G] The art of TvZ Han Bang-1 Vessel 3 Tank Timing - Page 2
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
a faster tech should be considered in tvz nowadays. | ||
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theconartist
62 Posts
On March 04 2009 08:29 ramen247 wrote: were did you get this build... He got it from watching ForGG matches. | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
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Zapdos_Smithh
Canada2620 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
On March 04 2009 07:20 GrandInquisitor wrote: excellent guide! | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
On March 04 2009 09:39 ramen247 wrote: the factory timing is not a good one in this build. a faster tech should be considered in tvz nowadays. Yea it should, but 1rax or 2 rax tech builds are rarely used because it gives up macro and map control for a vessel at 9 minutes. This build is great for very very aggressive zergs that build a crapload of shit just to force you to stay in or when the map is huge and u are confident in ur expo killing abilities. 4rax after expo is pretty agressive, and 3rax + fac is the safest tech there is. TvZ pushing should be done whenever the zerg is trying to force you to stay in the map. That is a clear indicator that they do not want you roaming around the map because they are either powering drones, teching, or expoing. The entire purpose of mid game ZvT is for the Z to contain the terran until they have hive tech, and it's the Terran's job to hinder his tech. There are at least 3 exploitable timings that zergs have 1. Before pool is finished - The zerg is vulnerable to their overlord being sniped if they are too careless about their scouting path. The zerg will also be forced to waste 2-4 larvae on lings to deter 4-5 marine harassment at their natural. 2. Muta/Lurk tech transition This is when the Zerg is still researching lurk tech. If his muta harass is subpar, he will have no choice but to defend ur push. 16-20 marines will easily rip apart through anything he can throw against you with ease, provided you have a couple firebats and don't walk into a trap. Be cautious though, some zergs like to bait you with a seemingly vulnerable position, only to completely wipe out ur force with a muta/ling force the size of the screen. 3. Hive tech Obviously this is the most critical timing there is. You really don't want him to have map control and hive tech, so at the very least move out and proceed to kill his 3rd gas. This is also the most ideal time so far to start an expansion while you are still competing for map control. Also, some zergs will also have exploitable timings due to their slower scout/reaction time, so other timings appear such as sunk break timings, run-by, or pushes when they start their 3rd gas. Pushing is simple enough with pure marine; you just run when they attack you. Most zergs aren't dumbasses and will attack you with a respectable flank. All you gotta do is run back and allow them to funnel, and then proceed to shoot everything. If you get completely surrounded, you didn't scout enough and walked into a freakin trap. If u have tanks, it's almost like a TvP timing push except with MnM. | ||
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deathgodtoss
Korea (North)189 Posts
On March 04 2009 09:22 T.O.P. wrote: There were some really awesome zerg guides that were written not too long ago. Check these two out. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=73314 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=72062 SHHHHHHHHH we dont need any zergs reading those ^_^ | ||
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
On March 04 2009 10:56 imBLIND wrote: Yea it should, but 1rax or 2 rax tech builds are rarely used because it gives up macro and map control for a vessel at 9 minutes. This build is great for very very aggressive zergs that build a crapload of shit just to force you to stay in or when the map is huge and u are confident in ur expo killing abilities. 4rax after expo is pretty agressive, and 3rax + fac is the safest tech there is. TvZ pushing should be done whenever the zerg is trying to force you to stay in the map. That is a clear indicator that they do not want you roaming around the map because they are either powering drones, teching, or expoing. The entire purpose of mid game ZvT is for the Z to contain the terran until they have hive tech, and it's the Terran's job to hinder his tech. There are at least 3 exploitable timings that zergs have 1. Before pool is finished - The zerg is vulnerable to their overlord being sniped if they are too careless about their scouting path. The zerg will also be forced to waste 2-4 larvae on lings to deter 4-5 marine harassment at their natural. 2. Muta/Lurk tech transition This is when the Zerg is still researching lurk tech. If his muta harass is subpar, he will have no choice but to defend ur push. 16-20 marines will easily rip apart through anything he can throw against you with ease, provided you have a couple firebats and don't walk into a trap. Be cautious though, some zergs like to bait you with a seemingly vulnerable position, only to completely wipe out ur force with a muta/ling force the size of the screen. 3. Hive tech Obviously this is the most critical timing there is. You really don't want him to have map control and hive tech, so at the very least move out and proceed to kill his 3rd gas. This is also the most ideal time so far to start an expansion while you are still competing for map control. Also, some zergs will also have exploitable timings due to their slower scout/reaction time, so other timings appear such as sunk break timings, run-by, or pushes when they start their 3rd gas. Pushing is simple enough with pure marine; you just run when they attack you. Most zergs aren't dumbasses and will attack you with a respectable flank. All you gotta do is run back and allow them to funnel, and then proceed to shoot everything. If you get completely surrounded, you didn't scout enough and walked into a freakin trap. If u have tanks, it's almost like a TvP timing push except with MnM. i never said it had to be 1/2 rax tech. you can do 3 rax tech, but getting a factory when the spire is done is ridiculously late. many progamers get it much earlier than that even when 3 raxing with fe. and by the way you talk about tvz, it seems like a terran should never be in the middle of a flank. sometimes, it is just inevitable. you are not always able to evade a flank. | ||
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deathgodtoss
Korea (North)189 Posts
On March 04 2009 11:19 ramen247 wrote: i never said it had to be 1/2 rax tech. you can do 3 rax tech, but getting a factory when the spire is done is ridiculously late. many progamers get it much earlier than that even when 3 raxing with fe. and by the way you talk about tvz, it seems like a terran should never be in the middle of a flank. sometimes, it is just inevitable. you are not always able to evade a flank. isnt it a bitch when you get totally flanked? i love m&m's though.. nothing like retreat a few steps, fire, repeat and cycle~~ or better yet, somehow ur medics were positioned so well they form like a semi circle around your marines... oh god that is lovely | ||
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SaveYourSavior
United States1071 Posts
much more economical than artosis's build order he gave in the difference between foreigners and koreans topic. | ||
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deathgodtoss
Korea (North)189 Posts
On March 04 2009 12:00 petzergling wrote: sry i have no respect for protoss players that is why this is a TvZ thread, aka the only real matchup in scbw hence why you should make an awesome BO analysis on TvP ^_^ | ||
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
On March 04 2009 12:11 Jonoman92 wrote: God are you like an Idra clone or something? A true BW player loves all MU's! idra is only joking when he says that. i dont think petzergling is. This is an amazing build much more economical than artosis's build order he gave in the difference between foreigners and koreans topic. i dont understand. the build artosis gave was perfectly fine. | ||
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SaveYourSavior
United States1071 Posts
On March 04 2009 12:35 ramen247 wrote: idra is only joking when he says that. i dont think petzergling is. i dont understand. the build artosis gave was perfectly fine. Yes, his build is good but this one is better | ||
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ZzZzAnG
United States109 Posts
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
On March 04 2009 11:19 ramen247 wrote: i never said it had to be 1/2 rax tech. you can do 3 rax tech, but getting a factory when the spire is done is ridiculously late. many progamers get it much earlier than that even when 3 raxing with fe. and by the way you talk about tvz, it seems like a terran should never be in the middle of a flank. sometimes, it is just inevitable. you are not always able to evade a flank. Well you can't always avoid a flank, but that doesn't mean it's insta-win. MIcro a bit yea? You just can't walk wherever you want; you're gonna get pincered. All you gotta do is scout the spots where a flank is most likely and walk with caution | ||
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Dr.Dragoon
United States1241 Posts
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bugus
Romania133 Posts
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
edit: Nice guide laying out a standard tvz build. I still need to work on refining my build past the 50 supply mark or so. | ||
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knightpraetor
United States180 Posts
" 15/18 Depot: Build this with your 14th SCV that comes out. Use a similar position to your first with this one, keep it out of the way and by your minerals 15/18 1 Marine: Place on ramp to ward off drone scout and to spot zerglings. If you suspect 9 pool you can place marine in your mineral line to ensure they survives. 16/18 Marine: This marine is massively important so make sure you watch this more then anything else. You will only have this lone marine when zerglings come if early pool. " | ||
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Puosu
7034 Posts
On March 04 2009 12:00 petzergling wrote: sry i have no respect for protoss players that is why this is a TvZ thread, aka the only real matchup in scbw lol (i'm not a protoss just fyi.) | ||
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