• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:59
CEST 22:59
KST 05:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202540Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up5LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments3[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced55
StarCraft 2
General
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Cow Gallstones for sale Whastapp:+44 7944332320 Clem Interview: "PvT is a bit insane right now" Serral wins EWC 2025 Would you prefer the game to be balanced around top-tier pro level or average pro level?
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
How do you go up to people? How do the new Battle.net ranks translate? Nobody gona talk about this year crazy qualifiers? Help, I can't log into staredit.net BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread 9/11 Anniversary Possible Al Qaeda Attack on 9/11
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 581 users

! [G] The Art of ZvP

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
ZerG~LegenD
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Sweden1179 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-10 18:45:33
May 25 2008 10:42 GMT
#1
The Art of ZvP

This guide will deal with zvp in general as well as going a little more into details on three popular zvp styles. The builds will only deal with a fast expanding protoss.

On B.net I'm more known as SieGe. If you happen to have heard of me you may judge me based on that, but it will do you no good.

Beware, it's long! And English isn't my native language.

Table of Contents

0.0 Scouting
0.1 Early Game Scouting
0.2 Mid Game Scouting
0.3 Late Game Scouting
0.4 Pre Game "Scouting"
0.5 Early Game

1.0 Classic Spire Opening
1.1 The Build Order
1.2 The Mid Game Crossroad
1.3 Examples Games

2.0 Mass Hydra
2.1 The Build Order
2.2 The Mid Game Crossroad
2.3 Examples Games

3.0 The Hydra Rush
3.1 The Build Order
3.2 How to Play It
3.3 Examples Games

4.0 War
4.1 The Three Ways of Offense
4.2 The Art of Defense

5.0 Small Pieces of Advice


0.0 Scouting

I'll start out with the scouting section as I'll assume you know certain things about your opponent when explaining the builds in the next section.

0.1 Early Game Scouting

Early game scouting is all about finding out if he's fast expanding or playing one base.

On two player maps you simply send your first overlord to his base. Take a detour if there are any popular proxy spots close to your path. If there are any popular proxy spots close to your main you can check these with your second overlord.

On three player maps you send your first overlord to the base which's natural is the furthest away (!). Then send your second overlord the remaining base. However, send them both so that they will spot a zealot walking the ground path towards your base.

If it's a four player map you twelve drone scout.


0.2 Mid Game Scouting

There's basicly three different approaches to mid game for the Protoss. I'll give you a brief instruction for the counters to each of them. You must use a scouting overlord in his main to find out which approach your opponent is using. Your overlord might die but that's well worth it.

First of all we have the +1 attack zealot push. Begin with checking his forge. If it's not spinning, he's not zealot pushing. Then you want to look for the timing of his gateways. If he's doing a zealot push he's most likely adding two to three gateways shortly after he lays down his citadel. If he lays them down when the citadel is almost completed or shortly after he warps in his templar archives he's likely to have fitted in a stargate too.

If his core is spinning, we can discard the possibility to a zealot push.

The next popular opening is the one stargate to ground build. With this build he might or might not upgrade the ground and air upgrades. Hence we can't catch this build by looking at his upgrade facilities. However, we can still look at his troop production buildings. First of all we want to look for a stargate. However he might be able to hide that one. Then there's the gateways, they'll almost always be placed in an open area in his base. If he adds one gateway shortly after his citadel and then one to two more shortly after his templar archives or simply two to three gateways after his archives he's likely to have done this build.

The last popular approach is the stargate/robotics opening. With this build he'll always be heavy on corsairs and he's very likely to have upgraded air attack as well as very unlikely to have upgraded ground attack. The dead give away for this build is two stargates or a very early robotics facility. With this build he'll add his gateways very late.

0.3 Late Game Scouting

There are basically three things you want to keep tabs on during the late game.

First there's the location of his army. Where's he moving, is he going to attack or is he leaving any areas undefended? Spread speed overlords around the map, or zerglings if you need your overlords for a drop. High ground is preferable for the overlords as they might require some micro in order to avoid getting killed if left in the open.

Then there's the empty expands. You really don't want him to grab another expansion without defending it with his army. Hence we'll place one zergling in every empty expansion. If possible, you can put one on patrol in-between two expansions. If you have enough overlords you also want to place an overlord in every expansion so that your zerglings don't get assassinated by dark templars. You'll still need the zerglings to kill any incoming probes though.

Lastly you don't want to be caught off guard by a tech switch. Fly an overlord into his main every now and then to check his buildings. If his army is smaller than it should be, get paranoid!

0.4 Pre Game "Scouting"

Is your opponent notorious for using a certain build? Make sure your build counters his, but don't discard the possibility of him using another build unless you think it's your only chance to win. I.e your opponent is much better than you.


0.5 Early Game

This is not about scouting but it still applies to all different styles and you'll need to know it before the next section. So I'll post it here anyway.

The idea of the early game is to get away with an as good economy as possible. I've found it most efficient to defend the first three zealots using only zerglings, and then add sunkens after that.

So, first you make four zerglings (see the build order) to chase their scouting probe. These four also serve as defense against their first zealot.

Now you have to use your scouting overlord to see when he gets his second zealot. When you see him having two zealots you add four more lings. Then you add four more once again when you see him having a third zealot.

If he gets even more zealots he'll often stay in his base with them, saving them for a larger attack later on and not wanting to risk their lives. After all, you'll have zergling speed by now so he'll have a hard time knowing what you really have. If he moves out anyway, he might have gone a 2 gate strategy or some other abnormal thing, add sunkens. Think of one sunken as the equal of two zealots. If you clearly see which one of your bases he's going to attack, then only make sunkens in that base.

1.0 Classic Spire Opening

An old favorite often used by Koreans. This is my own adaptation of it.

1.1 The Build Order

12 Expand
11 Spawning Pool
13 or 15 Expand (You don't know what he's doing: 13, You know he's doing FE: 15)
14 Four Zerglings (Assuming you by now know he's going FE)
17 Extractor
18 Hatchery
18 Overlord
18 Lair
The next 100 gas goes into the zergling speed upgrade.
21 Overlord
24 Extractor
Spire as soon as Lair finishes. This will probably at, or close to, 30 supply.

1.2 The Mid Game Crossroad

You'll deal with the zealot push by cutting drones at 35 supply and making as many mutalisks as you can afford when your spire finishes. If you can't afford at the very least seven mutalisks there's probably something wrong with your early game. In that case, please ask for specific advice.

Anyway, after you've hatched your mutalisks you want to spend your next mineral wave on two sunken colonies in every chokepoint he's likely to attack. Also, remove two zerglings from your zergling group and put them to guard any empty mineral line he's likely to expand too. After all, we don’t want him to cannon up an expansion while we're busy defending his zealots.

Then lay your hydra den and take your third gas if there's a gayser in your expansion. Finally you upgrade lurkers and expand with your fifth hatchery.

---------------------------------------

If he's doing a stargate build you want to lay down a hydralisk den as soon as you realize that it's a stargate build and use ten zerglings to run into his main (the remaining two shall be to scout the empty expansions, as in the earlier case) in order to find out if he's going ground or robo. You might also be able to kill some probes, but scouting is the number one priority. No matter what you find you can lay down a fifth hatchery and make some more drones compared to if he'd been zealot pushing.

If he appears to be going ground after the initial corsair(s) you upgrade lurkers and make scourges to fend of his corsairs. You might want to get one hydra per choke to fend of the first corsair if he teched very fast and one or both of your scouting overlords got killed by a dragoon. Make sure that you make at least two hydras, which can be morphed into lurkers, in your expansion so that you don't have to walk them there from your main. Also make three lurkers in your.

Your lurkers will finish before he can do a major ground attack. Invest in one sunken colony per choke before your lurkers have finished in order to fend off minor zealot attacks and dark templar harassment

---------------------------------------

If he instead went for a mass corsair and robotics build you want to upgrade hydralisk speed and range, as well as burrow. Burrow can be a life saver for your drones and allows for some sexy shuttle pick-off micro. If you got the balls that is.

Also upgrade air armor. An air switch can be devastating if he stops making corsairs. Also, upgraded devourers are awesome in late game if he really devotes himself to air units.

Play defensively; you have a lot of expansions already. But use speedlings to make sure he doesn't grab another expansion. You don't want him to grow too big.

1.3 Examples Games

Replays with me:
Vs Sair/Ground I forgot to make a fourth overlord this game. Don't do the same mistake.

VODs of pros:
Jaedong vs Bisu, Sair/Robo His bo is alittle different but in the end they play out in approximately the same way.

Note that I don't encourage the use of every single move made in the examples. They're not there so that you can copy every single little detail, they're simply there so that you can get an idea of how the build is supposed to look. I often do a lot of mistakes, especially when I'm ahead. The pros do mistakes too. You don't want to pick those up. "Do what I say, not what I do".

2.0 Mass Hydra

In my opinion this build is superior to the spire build on maps with very close second expansions while the spire build is preferred on maps where all expansions (or at least all gas expansions) are far away, think Lost Temple (far away) compared to Tau Cross (close).

2.1 The Build Order

12 Expand
11 Spawning Pool
13 or 15 Expand
14 Four Zerlings
16 Overlord
21 Hatchery
21 Extractor
21 Overlord

Get a fifth hatch as soon as you get 300 minerals and you're out of spare larva.

Lair with your first 100 gas, ~32 supply. Also get your second gas at the same time.

Zergling speed with your next 100 gas, ~36 supply.

Hydralisk Den with your next 50 gas, ~38.

When your Hydralisk Den completes you should have ~44 supply. This will be enough drones to support your mass. First get the hydralisk speed upgrade and the overlord speed upgrade, then start massing hydralisks.

Get a spire around the same time as you start the hydralisk range upgrade, also take your third gas at this time.

Get the lurker upgrade as soon as the hydralisk range upgrade finishes.

2.2 The Mid Game Crossroad

If he's zealot pushing you might, or might not need to make one to two sunkens to defend. It will depend a little on the distances and your current opponent. After you've defended, pressure him to prevent a possible expansion attempt but back off if he's got templars. Now get nine mutalisks (nine is the minimum for one-hit kills on templars) and check out if his main is vulnerable. Then start picking off his templars whenever he moves them away from cannon protection. If you can get his templars you can move in with your hydralisks and you'll be in a really good position.

If there isn't a geyser in your second exp you'll still be able to play this build. However, you won't be able to do a mutalisk tech switch. Instead, you want an earlier 3rd expand (with at least one geyser).

--------------------------------------

If he instead made corsairs you want to start pressuring as soon as your overlord speed upgrade finishes. He must not secure another expansion. If he only made one corsairs you might still be able to do a mutalisk switch. Else you'll rely on your mass and his slightly delayed tech until you've got lurkers.

--------------------------------------

Vs a sair/robo opening you want upgrade air armor as well as burrow. An air switch might come in handy later. Hence you also want to mine the third geyser if possible, in order to save up a stack of gas. Play defensively at first but move to the offense if you see an opportunity, like if you killed his shuttle.

2.3 Example Games

Replays with me:
Vs Zealot Push
Vs Zealot Push, No Gas In 2nd Exp I did a few mistakes in the early game here, so the bo isn't 100%. Also, note my attack on his min only at 11:00. That one makes no sense at all and is a big mistake, because my economy was much better than his, hence I would only have needed to defend in order to win.

VODs of Pros:
Jaedong vs Bisu, Ground Only
Jaedong vs Best, Sair/Ground
Jaedong vs Bisu, Sair/Robo

3.0 The Hydralisk Rush

This is the cheese you throw in when your opponent expects it the least. Not the funniest build in the world but it's good for ladder climbing and important games where you think you're the worse player.

3.1 The Build Order

9 Overlord
9 Spawning Pool
9 Extractor
Get lingspeed asap then pull the drones off gas.
9 Get six zerglings
15 Expand
15 Start mining gas again
16 Hydra Den
16 Overlord
16 Mass Hydras

Get the hydralisk range upgrade first, then the speed upgrade.

3.2 How to Play It

When your first six zerglings hatch you send one after his probe and use the other five to fake aggression but return shortly after you left your base and try to kill the probe instead. The only thing you want out of the fake is to force cannons.

The absolutely most important thing with this build is to not let him scout it. Kill all scouting probes that leaves his base using speed lings and always have enough lings around to be able to defeat his zealots, should they move out.

You mustn't start mining gas again before you've rid yourself of his scouting probe. Note that there'll only be a few seconds in-between when your zergling speed upgrade completes and when you want to start mining gas again. Wait until you've killed his probe before you start mining gas, however, don't use the spare larva on anything. Even if we have to delay our hydralisk den a little we'll still get the same amount of hydras, only slower upgrades.

Attack whenever you think you can beat him. However, generally your chances of beating him grows the longer into the game you get, assuming he hasn't scouted your build yet. If he scouts it, you need to attack asap.

3.3 Example Games

Replay with me:
Some poor Toss dies

VODs of Pros:
July vs Bisu

4.0 War

Often you see the protoss move out into the middle with a large army only to be attacked by the zerg army. However, more often than not do the protoss wins the battle and then moves on to win the game. This is because attacking the protoss rarely makes sense.

In battle the defender is favored. This is especially true if defensive units such as the siege tank or the lurker is used. In order to maximize the efficiency of our lurkers we must be the defender. However, this doesn't mean that we'll be the passive the whole game. It just means that we will force him to make the last move towards us.

The one exception to this is when our army is clearly the largest. This could for example be when you're sitting with two groups of ultras vs his 130 supply army or when you've just picked off all his templars with your mutalisks or when he've clearly over extended himself by expanding and/or teching too much.

However, just because he's expanding he's not overextending himself. You must also judge the size of his army, can he defend that expansion? If you're unsure it's often best to not attack it. If you attack and fail, take it as a learnt lesson; you've just gotten slightly better at judging the strength of your army compared to your opponent's! This is one of the most valuable skills in the game.

4.1 The Three Ways of Offense

Knowing that we'll be the defender in battle we must find ways to make him come to us. This can be done is several ways.

First of all we might set up our troops in a way so that he must kill them in order to extend himself. Ie a contain.

--------------------------------

The second method is to move into an undefended or weakly defended area controlled by him and set up a defensive position there, and then wait for him to come and reclaim the area. For example, you could move into his poorly defended expansion just as he moves away from it and burrow your lurkers in position. Then you'll be the defender when he arrives five seconds later, yet you're attacking him.

This method can also be applied by dropping your units straight into his main. If you brought hydras and lurkers with the drop you can try to pick of his observer(s) in order to maximize the damage done by your lurkers.

---------------------------------

The third method is taking an expansion and then setting up your army so that he must defeat you in order to kill the expansion. If he doesn't attack it, fine, you've gotten yourself another expansion! If he attacks it, fine yet again, you've got a positioning advantage!

However, beware; he might try to apply method number two by attacking another one of your bases. Hence you must keep track of his army and move your army accordingly. In the end it doesn't matter which base he attacks if you're already there to defend it.


4.2 The Art of Defense

The first and foremost important thing when defending is the positioning of your lurkers. They must be spread out so that he can't storm many at a time. Then they must be placed slightly in front of the rest of your army. If possible you also want to place them with a choke point in-between your lurkers and the enemy. However, that is rarely possible.

Spreading out your lurkers quickly is quite hard to do. However, it's a skill, hence you'll get better at it when you practice it.

-------------------------------

Then you want to think of destroying his observers. If he carelessly lets one fly into your army you kill it with hydras. If he defends them better you can still take them out with scourges. Always keep a few scourges around for this purpose. When his army is busy attacking yours your scourges will be able to fly in without getting killed. Prior to the battle you can also try to sacrifice a few zerglings to draw fire while you kill the observer with your scourge.

-------------------------------

Lastly we have the storm dodging. First of all we want to avoid creating blood fests by spreading out our army as much as possible prior to the battle. Then we want to move hydralisks out of storms whenever they get stormed. This has become much more efficient since the introduction of LatencyChanger.

The more advanced form of storm dodging is to predict where he'll storm based on where your units are clumped up the most and when he'll storm based on the distance to his high templars and their movements, ie the time it will take him to move into range. And then move the group of units you think will get stormed slightly before he actually storms them.

5.0 Small Pieces of Advice


  • Start upgrading directly after you've started your first wave of lurkers. If he's going corsair/reaver you won't need lurkers, instead, start upgrading when both hydralisk upgrades have finished.
  • Get all three ground upgrades when playing the mass hydra build but skip the ranged attack upgrade when using the spire build. Unless the plays corsair/reaver, then you want to get the ranged attack upgrade no matter your build.
  • Learn to master the defiler, it's the most devastating unit in the game. It's not too hard to get a good plague off before the battle, and it can easily remove several hundred hit points. Swarm is awesome too, if he's dragoon and archons heavy.
  • In the late game, use defiler/zergling raids against his expansions while using your main army to occupy his main army. You don't necessarily have to engage him, just show him that you're near.
  • If he tries to block your expand with his scouting probe you lay your first hatchery in the second exp. If the second exp is too far away you lay the hatchery in your expansion but not in the expansion spot. You'll need to bring out two drones in either case.
  • On maps like Wuthering Highs and Tau Cross you want to place a drone on hold position in the mini choke to avoid getting cannon rushed.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
ZerG~LegenD
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Sweden1179 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-25 10:45:44
May 25 2008 10:43 GMT
#2
There's probably plenty of errors in it. Let me know when you find one so I can fix it please.

I mean lanuage errors, not strategical ones.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
grobo
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Japan6199 Posts
May 25 2008 10:52 GMT
#3
Cool, i never thought you would be SeiGe

Anyway, i've only read the first two chapters and it's great so far, really in depth which is great.
We make signature, then defense it.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 25 2008 10:52 GMT
#4
can i tell you about the strategical ones i find or no
Blu-Ray
Profile Joined May 2008
Poland93 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-25 12:32:34
May 25 2008 11:52 GMT
#5
Cool. Ur really good Zerg player. I reccomend to copy this guide to ur own blog and add next guides (ZvT and ZvZ). :D

That would be great when good Protoss player will do guide like this. Every Protoss guide is outdated. I must switch from Toss to Zerg because of "guideless"! :D

IMHO this should go to reccomended threads.
sprawlers
Profile Joined June 2007
Norway439 Posts
May 25 2008 11:56 GMT
#6
Great guide, but I cant find the "12 Hatch Vs Double Gate Rush" part.
ZerG~LegenD
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Sweden1179 Posts
May 25 2008 12:03 GMT
#7
Ops. It's not in there. I decided that I couldn't write it accurately enough atm.

Zulu, sure you can, But I'll defend my points.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-25 13:56:47
May 25 2008 13:51 GMT
#8
On May 25 2008 19:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:
can i tell you about the strategical ones i find or no


Considering how sycophantic this forum is towards "News" contributors and staff, you are remarkably mean-spirited and unhelpful to someone who is contributing towards the Strategy forum. There's things in there I find questionable too (such as the rather late upgrading) but you may as well be constructive and point out what you think is wrong.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
Blu-Ray
Profile Joined May 2008
Poland93 Posts
May 25 2008 14:11 GMT
#9
I have question, Siege. Do u play Ling+Lurker strats with quick evo (just as Mondragon plays) or do u play popular nowadays 3 evo "Sauron Zerg"? If yes how should peple play it?
Tropics
Profile Joined August 2007
United Kingdom1132 Posts
May 25 2008 14:30 GMT
#10
I've only read the scouting section so far, but you don't seem to provide a reason for doing things. The most notable one being "Send your overlord to the base with the furthest natural". Why should I do that? You don't give a reason.

It's also unbelievably rigid.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 25 2008 14:44 GMT
#11
On May 25 2008 22:51 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2008 19:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:
can i tell you about the strategical ones i find or no


Considering how sycophantic this forum is towards "News" contributors and staff, you are remarkably mean-spirited and unhelpful to someone who is contributing towards the Strategy forum. There's things in there I find questionable too (such as the rather late upgrading) but you may as well be constructive and point out what you think is wrong.


GI stop owning me
ZerG~LegenD
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Sweden1179 Posts
May 25 2008 14:48 GMT
#12
You send it to the furthest position because it let's you see two paths instead of one. The thing that matters is whether you find that zealot walking towards your base or not. If you send your first one to the closest and he is there you'll see the zealot well in time but if he's not there you won't see it in time.

By instead sending the first one to the furthest base you'll find both just in time.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
trickser
Profile Joined October 2006
Germany139 Posts
May 25 2008 15:30 GMT
#13

1.1 The Build Order

12 Expand
11 Spawning Pool
13 or 15 Expand (You don't know what he's doing: 13, You know he's doing FE: 15)
14 Four Zerglings (Assuming you by now know he's going FE)
17 Extractor
18 Hatchery
18 Overlord
18 Lair
The next 100 gas goes into the zergling speed upgrade.
21 Overlord
24 Extractor
Spire as soon as Lair finishes. This will probably at, or close to, 30 supply.


I think you wrote something wrong in this build. You go 4 hatch but 17 extractor. Somehow i think this does not work out. Did you make a mistake there?
Heart Catch Pre-Cure. Saa Mina De! Heart Catch Pre-Cure Hanasaka Seyo!
Blu-Ray
Profile Joined May 2008
Poland93 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-25 16:02:52
May 25 2008 16:01 GMT
#14
Siege do u use Mondragon build? I mean pretty fast evo and getting almost pure Ling+Lurker+Scourge while advancing to Ultra-Ling. How should it be played properly? I have hard time to play this style... Help plz... :D

P.S. ZvT guide! ZvT guide! ZvT guide! :D
ZerG~LegenD
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Sweden1179 Posts
May 25 2008 16:15 GMT
#15
On May 26 2008 01:01 Blu-Ray wrote:
Siege do u use Mondragon build? I mean pretty fast evo and getting almost pure Ling+Lurker+Scourge while advancing to Ultra-Ling. How should it be played properly? I have hard time to play this style... Help plz... :D

P.S. ZvT guide! ZvT guide! ZvT guide! :D

I don't play that style. Though I could probably help anyway. Do you want a bo or some general gameplay advice?

ZvT Guide 1
ZvT Guide 2

trickster, it's not a mistake. It do work out.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
parkin
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
1080 Posts
May 25 2008 16:25 GMT
#16
Interresting guide, nice work ^^
mostly harmless
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 25 2008 16:38 GMT
#17
Just wanna say one thing is that most of your views are very specific and subjective.

"Often you see the protoss move out into the middle with a large army only to be attacked by the zerg army. However, more often than not do the protoss wins the battle and then moves on to win the game. This is because attacking the protoss rarely makes sense."

I rarely experience this, if I can kill off toss's army completely I win the game most of the time. And I initiate the attacks all the time. The only times when I avoid toss' army is when it's signicantly larger which in that case I turtle hard with resources and try to build my own army and harass.
ZerG~LegenD
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Sweden1179 Posts
May 25 2008 16:50 GMT
#18
The nature of the lurker makes the zerg army much stronger in defense. Hence you'll need a larger army to win when you attack compared to when you defend..Of course you'll win anyway if your army is large enough but we can't assume that you've already outmacroed your opponent.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 25 2008 17:00 GMT
#19
right so why not just build the amount of lurkers necessary to defend and spend your gas elsewhere like on ultras with which you can actually attack with. More importantly the point I'm trying to make is there is no rule that zerg shouldn rarely attack the protoss, it doesn't make sense at all.
Exteray
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1094 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-25 17:01:44
May 25 2008 17:01 GMT
#20
I always have trouble defend against 2gate zeal rush--> forge -->expand.. cuz early game i tend to make a lot of lings/sunkens to defend that constant zeal pump. then when he takes his 2nd nexus my econ is then way behind and i won't have enough units to defend if i take my 3rd. So can you please go over the right BOs or just what i should do against that? Thx
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RotterdaM Event
16:00
Rotti's All Random #2
RotterdaM1329
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1329
IndyStarCraft 253
UpATreeSC 122
Nathanias 83
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3170
Mini 568
ggaemo 321
Larva 261
BeSt 239
firebathero 165
Barracks 118
Mong 57
IntoTheRainbow 11
Dota 2
capcasts311
Counter-Strike
fl0m2260
Stewie2K1106
byalli402
Foxcn257
Super Smash Bros
PPMD45
Mew2King38
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu678
Other Games
Grubby5738
Beastyqt668
shahzam272
KnowMe225
Pyrionflax86
Sick57
ZombieGrub31
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 253
• StrangeGG 49
• davetesta45
• musti20045 18
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 39
• FirePhoenix8
• Pr0nogo 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22583
League of Legends
• Doublelift3638
• TFBlade846
Other Games
• imaqtpie1891
• WagamamaTV373
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 1m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
14h 1m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
18h 1m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 3h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 14h
Stormgate Nexus
1d 17h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 19h
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
LiuLi Cup
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
RotterdaM Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
HCC Europe
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.