EPT
! [G] The Art of ZvP - Page 2
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Blu-Ray
Poland93 Posts
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Blu-Ray
Poland93 Posts
When I play Tau Cross/Wuthering Heights is this really neccesary to have this Drone on chockepoint? I have owned numerous cannon rushes with my initial ling canceling my expo Hatchery and moving it onto the next expo and dealing with rush via Zerglings. When he is really behind and mass Ling/Hydra finishes him. Is this good approach? | ||
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
Nice guide btw. Will have to re-read. | ||
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
On May 26 2008 02:00 zulu_nation8 wrote: right so why not just build the amount of lurkers necessary to defend and spend your gas elsewhere like on ultras with which you can actually attack with. More importantly the point I'm trying to make is there is no rule that zerg shouldn rarely attack the protoss, it doesn't make sense at all. Cause lurkers are far stronger when used correctly? And why waste gas on lurker if you're not bringing them into your attacks? Then you'll be at an even huger disatvantage. Your ideas simply doesn't makes sense if you want to be efficient. Any strategican should really know that the defender is always at an advantage when prepared. Hence you'll try to make every battle into a defensive one. If you catch your opponent off-gaurd, sure go ahead and attack (I think I mentioned it in the op?) but don't attack a prepared opponent. You'll destroyed if the armys are even. | ||
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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
 ) but otherwise really nice and good work, it's nice to see people contributing to the community! And I didn't notice that English wasn't your native language ! | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
On May 26 2008 03:10 Superiorwolf wrote: Cool, it's great to see more ZvP guides (I think we only have one other than this eh?). Albeit it's not very informative for the higher-caliber player, it's very useful for lower skilled people imo. I think there are a few things which could be improved on (you don't describe a few things thoroughly enough, the main thing I think is just you didn't really explain when you needed +1 carapace. Generally players like mondragon get it at or slightly after protoss begins it during a +1 speedzeal rush. I think you might have wanted to tell how to do just a standard macro counter to +1 speedzeal rush with a +1 carapace ling + sunk defense) and a couple of tips you could add in, too (my favorite is taking a defiler + lings in an ovie, drop them at expo and d swarm and focus on nexus ) but otherwise really nice and good work, it's nice to see people contributing to the community! And I didn't notice that English wasn't your native language !Thanks. The +1 build develops into a whole other playstyle, which I've forgone from describing entirely. Besides, we already have a guide for that style of play. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On May 26 2008 03:04 ZerG~LegenD wrote: Cause lurkers are far stronger when used correctly? And why waste gas on lurker if you're not bringing them into your attacks? Then you'll be at an even huger disatvantage. Your ideas simply doesn't makes sense if you want to be efficient. Any strategican should really know that the defender is always at an advantage when prepared. Hence you'll try to make every battle into a defensive one. If you catch your opponent off-gaurd, sure go ahead and attack (I think I mentioned it in the op?) but don't attack a prepared opponent. You'll destroyed if the armys are even. 1.Lurkers are not stronger than ultras. I'm saying to use the lurkers as a transition before hive tech. Attacking with a lot of lurkers isn't efficient period because storms will rape them. 2. That's not true at all, if you're zerg and at a good position to flank with equal units or at any position with more units you should always attack. I think your view comes from being used to having smaller armies than the toss. A prepared toss army is basically one that sits there, a prepared zerg army is one that can flank, you're making it sound like it's rarely smart to attack tosses which is just simply untrue. A lot of strategy in starcraft comes from highly specific subjective experiences and that's why it's hard to make guides that cover all aspects. My point is that the way you play sounds like you play a lot of tosses who macro better than you. Not everyone or I hope not everyone has such a conservative mindset when ZvPing. Turtling is key to a zerg if he's at a disadvantage and need to build or he has obtained more resources than the toss and is going through a tech transition. Otherwise it's just an ugly way to play and prolongs the game unnecessarily. A zerg in my opinion should take advantage of any opportunity to attack and be super aggressive but only if he has more resources and don't waste them in battle tradeoff. | ||
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w3jjjj
United States760 Posts
one suggestion: for the war section, a good tactic is distraction. while it is rarely wise to attack the protoss army head on, zerg can often temporarily remove the protoss army from specific areas by creating a distraction elsewhere, and overwhelm the cannons when his army is not there. ie, small distraction drop in main, followed by a frontal attack on toss 3rd base when his army goes back to save the main. regardless of how big the toss army is, if it is absent in a battle, zerg wins. i have agree with zerg-legend on the idea of playing defensively. every good toss who trained me in pvz told me the same thing: its the protoss' job to kill the zerg, not vice versa, just keep growing like a virus and toss will be forced to attack despite zerg having defensive advantages. trying to gain defensive advantage is a must, we should not confuse that with passive turtling. | ||
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
On May 26 2008 05:26 zulu_nation8 wrote: Lurkers are not stronger than ultras. I'm saying to use the lurkers as a transition before hive tech. Attacking with a lot of lurkers isn't efficient period because storms will rape them 1: You're greatly underestimating lurkers. Their spines tear anything melee to pieces. A lurker/ultra/defiler combination is far deadlier than just ultras or ultra/defiler. 2: Hence you force him to come at you. If you just leave them behind you're locking up rescources and will get raped if an equal toss brings his whole army. That's not true at all, if you're zerg and at a good position to flank with equal units or at any position with more units you should always attack. I think your view comes from being used to having smaller armies than the toss. A prepared toss army is basically one that sits there, a prepared zerg army is one that can flank, you're making it sound like it's rarely smart to attack tosses which is just simply untrue. A prepared zerg army is one which makes full use of their every resource. By attacking you're not making full use of the lurker, one of your greatest assets, hence attacking is not making full use of all available resources. My point is that your play is unefficient, hence your opponents play must be even more unefficient if you're winning your games. Starcraft is alot about quick decision making, but you still need a foundation to build your play upon. And that's why you read guides. Player 1 has 12 zerglings above a ramp, player 2 has 12 zerglings below the ramp? Who will win when they clash? Player 1 has 4 zerglings, Player 2 has one zealot. Who will win when they clash? Player 1 has 6 lurkers, Player 2 has 5 lurkers. Who will win when they clash? The answer is that it depends on the circumstances of the battle. Player 2 could win each and every one of these if he secures a favorable battle ground and defends it. On the other hand Player 1 could turn the battle into a real slaughter if he applies the same tricks. There is no reason to discard using every advantage available. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
Not to mention reavers just make popcorns with lurkers. | ||
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inlagdsil
Canada957 Posts
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sprawlers
Norway439 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28711 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25988 Posts
Cloud, you're retarded. "Lurkers suck against Protoss"?????? What the fuck man? | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28711 Posts
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Kakashi[Black]
84 Posts
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Kakashi[Black]
84 Posts
In terms of Mondragon build I know BO a bit (but still this would be great if u would tell correct BO). I don't know how to proceed with upgrades, attacking, expanding, generally with gameplay of Mondi build. Are there any other ZvP main strategies that u don't mentioned in ur guide? Thx in advance. 9 ol pool 10 gas (3 drones after finished , mine till 100) 16 hatch (nat) , following 12 lings. 13 3rd hatch - 13 cuz thats most often supply count after lings runby 19 4th hatch 23 evo, drones back to mine gas 33 Lair 38 2nd gas/den 46 5th hatch 80 6th hatch in expo 90-100 7th hatch then around 120 +2-3 hatch <>< | ||
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Kakashi[Black]
84 Posts
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