should always get fac before +1 and marine range, regardless of 2 or 3 rax (vs 3 hat)

and your opening build is ok but if you dont scout them in time to do 1 depot cc its better to
barracks depot marine cc barracks gas acad, all off 1 marine. bunker only if you scout 8 initial lings, also start building marines if you see that. bats and meds will be out in time to block 3 hat speedling.

generally want your 2nd gas as your fac is 90%~ done, varying slightly with how quick youve teched and a few other things. do not wait for starport to get it, you'll be gas starved in most circumstances

you didnt cover it but assuming your opponent is going normal hive timing you should get your 3rd cc and 2nd starport as well as switching to mines during your first tank/vessel timing push.

IdrA

United States11541 Posts

March 04 2009 15:27 GMT

#44

oh in your last post you advocated continuing tanks. dont (vs 3 gas hive). it is good to switch back into tanks once youve secured a 3rd gas for a while, but you need all your gas for 2 port vessels and mines are more useful against lurk/defiler anyway, so you should cut tanks for mines for a while before you both get better econ established.

Cloud

Sexico5880 Posts

March 04 2009 15:32 GMT

#45

Factory before +1? When do you get your 2nd gas, idra? Oh and if you get acad before second barracks, when do you add your 2nd and possibly 3rd barracks?

Piy

Scotland3152 Posts

March 04 2009 15:33 GMT

#46

[B]On March 04 2009 09:39 ramen247 wrote:

i never said it had to be 1/2 rax tech. you can do 3 rax tech, but getting a factory when the spire is done is ridiculously late. many progamers get it much earlier than that even when 3 raxing with fe.

and by the way you talk about tvz, it seems like a terran should never be in the middle of a flank. sometimes, it is just inevitable. you are not always able to evade a flank.

...Not you again.

The factory timing here's is fine....Why do you keep coming onto TvZ threads and posting incorrect information? Does it make you happy or something?

Cloud

Sexico5880 Posts

March 04 2009 15:35 GMT

#47

He is right, factory after the spire is done? thats ridiculously late. With factory that late, his ebay is late as well. should start before the acad is finished, immediately after at the latest.

IdrA

United States11541 Posts

March 04 2009 15:35 GMT

#48

On March 05 2009 00:32 Cloud wrote:
Factory before +1? When do you get your 2nd gas, idra? Oh and if you get acad before second barracks, when do you add your 2nd and possibly 3rd barracks?

i said in that post, before the fac finishes. 90 percent complete is a rough estimate.

Cloud

Sexico5880 Posts

March 04 2009 15:38 GMT

#49

Oh sorry, missed that.

Piy

Scotland3152 Posts

March 04 2009 15:40 GMT

#50

You sure about that idra...I mean I don't want to argue with you cause that would obviously be a stupid thing to do, but in almost all pro reps I've seen fact is gotten around 6:00-6:40 after +1 and range

Cloud

Sexico5880 Posts

March 04 2009 15:43 GMT

#51

Well, im pretty sure factory is always before range (and 2nd gas right after factory), but i never build it before +1, although i also take my gas later, since i usually go 2 barracks before gas.

IdrA

United States11541 Posts

March 04 2009 15:45 GMT

#52

+1 isnt gonna finish in time for mutas, but will easily be done in time for any timing push either way. marine range will finish in time for muta harass either way. why not get the factory first? getting it 250 gas later makes a serious dent in your timing push. the 3rd gas starts to kick in on their lurker count.

Piy

Scotland3152 Posts

March 04 2009 15:46 GMT

#53

hmmm, I might be wrong bout this after all. Was just judging from what I've seen. Don't see any reason why range before fac is necessary at all now that I think about it.

Piy

Scotland3152 Posts

March 04 2009 15:46 GMT

#54

awesome. Well ty for that.

IdrA

United States11541 Posts

March 04 2009 15:48 GMT

#55

+1 first isnt necessary either, although it can be better in some situations. +1 is a big help vs mutas, so if theyre doing extended muta harass the faster you have +1 the better, but its hard to know how much theyre gonna dedicate to mutas before you have to decide. that ones more of a judgement call, but always fac before range.

d1v

Sweden868 Posts

March 04 2009 16:10 GMT

#56

Thx for the additional info Idra, keep it coming if possible, you're an important source.

Debeli

Croatia93 Posts

March 04 2009 18:09 GMT

#57

It would be nice if it was against P considering that P is 99% on ICC

.
Great guide nevertheless :D

Phearlock

Norway400 Posts

March 04 2009 18:21 GMT

#58

Just finished reading the whole thing =D

That is one awesome guide, will put this in my favorite forum bookmarks under guides/strats ^^
I'll also show this to one of my newbie terran friends, been wanting to teach him some good build orders but I don't know any very well myself, lol. ^^

LaLaBye

United States90 Posts

March 04 2009 21:02 GMT

#59

Ahhh but your sc2gg guides were still really good...

Well, no doubt your posted guides here will be just as good/better :D

<3

YPang

United States4024 Posts

March 04 2009 21:43 GMT

#60

why is it whenever i see reps of pros playing TvZ, they always get their turrets up at 52 psi, not 62? oO isn't a factory at 60 too late for timing attack?

And for idra, i thought it was 1 rax, to 1 academy + 1 ebay, get stim + 1 attack, and then get 2 more rax totalling to 3 rax. Then you start factory with the next 100 gas....

But in your post you said you get fax before +1 attack... That must be some pretty fast factory........