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sorry
basic summary of what happened:
1. i watched a bunch of replays to try to get better at tvz, wrote down a basic bo, and i had a couple of extra hours on a friday at work so i explained all of the things and formatted it pretty
2. lower level players thanked me, higher up players made some corrections and helped me make it better. Some terran nerds who write garbage posts and get flamed for what they write flamed me(cus thats what happens to them) about what i wrote (i just copied some replay so wtf does it matter).
3. I end up playing two series of games, one of which is against nintu's supposed b- friend who I went 1:1 with, I played extremely nervous and robotic losing the first game but I was able to compose myself in the second game. After talking about the game and saying gg's to the zerg he apparently said I was an extremely unskilled player and blamed his loss to me on painkillers. I played a second series with this ramen247 guy who dominated me two games in a row (2nd game with 9 pool, my tvz bane for some reason) and I decided to stop playing the game competitively -- I have major stress problems and I'm not able to compose myself in serious matches. Without hope of playing the game at a high level the fun kind of dies out you know?
4. I deleted the guide and my post responses, basically because of negative critiques from a pretty large group of people. Yeah I did it for attention, but not from the community -- from them. If you go back and read their posts I don't see what else they could have wanted other then my reputation trashed and the guide removed -- so there they go.
5. I bought wc3 and I'm probably going to lose a bunch of games because I cant outmacro people with 55 apm and I'm just going to come back to starcraft in a week and just D bash until I feel better.
I figured this would have been done a long time ago but I guess it didnt -- it would be nice if a mod closed this as it hasn't contained any real strategy discussion for the last few days
A noob friend of mine who I didn't even know browsed tl asked me to repost the guide back up but all I have saved is the first two pages or so. If anyone for whatever reason has it saved as a word doc or something if you could pm it to me so I could give it to him that would be great -- thanks
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Wow, this is really useful, especially the part about not moving out with just 1 vessel. I would often roll out whenever I had 1 vessel and 3 tanks, without checking his hive timing. Thanks for the tip. Great guide by the way!
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this is how you write a guide!
goddamn, this is excellent
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wow
so much terran help out here lately.
i haven't read it all the way through yet, but from what i've seen, it looks very comprehensive and well-thought out
good job!
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Terran's are going to take over on icc  Never a good thing
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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This is a great guide that i find really helpful. However, as with any long build order like this, losing econ in the beginning will screw up the rest of the timings.
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thank god you wrote this, I kept having to make little BO guides in about 1567 strategy forum posts before 
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Thanks so much petzergling, you've always been my hero. Any chance sc2gg will let you finish your FUCKING AWESOME terran guide?
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Thank you very much for taking the time to write this up, this seems to be an excellent guide. Really glad to see so much help for Terrans around here, we're in dire need 
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were did you get this build...
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On March 04 2009 08:23 petzergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 08:07 LaLaBye wrote:
Thanks so much petzergling, you've always been my hero. Any chance sc2gg will let you finish your FUCKING AWESOME terran guide? This was my first step of remaking the terran guide, basically my plan was to have three seperate posts like this, and at TL level and not sc2gg level  .
dude, i give you props~~~~
i will have to incorporate this into my t v z build...
nice to keep it within the TL community
but dude, by any chance you have build order for T v P?
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On March 04 2009 08:29 ramen247 wrote:
were did you get this build...
by watching 2149012480192 replays right?
lol anyway great guide petzerlging! :D:D awesome.
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there is no love for zerg... first this, then you have someone bumping super jong min's translation of the 4gate, 2 archon+speedlot build.... sucks to be zerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrg
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nothing to see here terrans, just move right long
keep on beating protoss heads in mirite?
heh....
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
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if only all guides were like this and the majority of them were protoss BOs
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the factory timing is not a good one in this build.
a faster tech should be considered in tvz nowadays.
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On March 04 2009 08:29 ramen247 wrote:
were did you get this build...
He got it from watching ForGG matches.
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Just wondering, but why do you build your 2nd tank so late? Shouldn't you just build 3 in a row as soon as your shop finishes so you get 3 tanks in your nat just before the vessel comes out?
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yay let's make it even harder for zerg
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On March 04 2009 07:20 GrandInquisitor wrote:
excellent guide!
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On March 04 2009 09:39 ramen247 wrote:
the factory timing is not a good one in this build.
a faster tech should be considered in tvz nowadays.
Yea it should, but 1rax or 2 rax tech builds are rarely used because it gives up macro and map control for a vessel at 9 minutes. This build is great for very very aggressive zergs that build a crapload of shit just to force you to stay in or when the map is huge and u are confident in ur expo killing abilities. 4rax after expo is pretty agressive, and 3rax + fac is the safest tech there is.
TvZ pushing should be done whenever the zerg is trying to force you to stay in the map. That is a clear indicator that they do not want you roaming around the map because they are either powering drones, teching, or expoing. The entire purpose of mid game ZvT is for the Z to contain the terran until they have hive tech, and it's the Terran's job to hinder his tech. There are at least 3 exploitable timings that zergs have
1. Before pool is finished - The zerg is vulnerable to their overlord being sniped if they are too careless about their scouting path. The zerg will also be forced to waste 2-4 larvae on lings to deter 4-5 marine harassment at their natural.
2. Muta/Lurk tech transition
This is when the Zerg is still researching lurk tech. If his muta harass is subpar, he will have no choice but to defend ur push. 16-20 marines will easily rip apart through anything he can throw against you with ease, provided you have a couple firebats and don't walk into a trap. Be cautious though, some zergs like to bait you with a seemingly vulnerable position, only to completely wipe out ur force with a muta/ling force the size of the screen.
3. Hive tech
Obviously this is the most critical timing there is. You really don't want him to have map control and hive tech, so at the very least move out and proceed to kill his 3rd gas. This is also the most ideal time so far to start an expansion while you are still competing for map control.
Also, some zergs will also have exploitable timings due to their slower scout/reaction time, so other timings appear such as sunk break timings, run-by, or pushes when they start their 3rd gas.
Pushing is simple enough with pure marine; you just run when they attack you. Most zergs aren't dumbasses and will attack you with a respectable flank. All you gotta do is run back and allow them to funnel, and then proceed to shoot everything. If you get completely surrounded, you didn't scout enough and walked into a freakin trap. If u have tanks, it's almost like a TvP timing push except with MnM.
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SHHHHHHHHH
we dont need any zergs reading those ^_^
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On March 04 2009 10:56 imBLIND wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 09:39 ramen247 wrote:
the factory timing is not a good one in this build.
a faster tech should be considered in tvz nowadays. Yea it should, but 1rax or 2 rax tech builds are rarely used because it gives up macro and map control for a vessel at 9 minutes. This build is great for very very aggressive zergs that build a crapload of shit just to force you to stay in or when the map is huge and u are confident in ur expo killing abilities. 4rax after expo is pretty agressive, and 3rax + fac is the safest tech there is. TvZ pushing should be done whenever the zerg is trying to force you to stay in the map. That is a clear indicator that they do not want you roaming around the map because they are either powering drones, teching, or expoing. The entire purpose of mid game ZvT is for the Z to contain the terran until they have hive tech, and it's the Terran's job to hinder his tech. There are at least 3 exploitable timings that zergs have 1. Before pool is finished - The zerg is vulnerable to their overlord being sniped if they are too careless about their scouting path. The zerg will also be forced to waste 2-4 larvae on lings to deter 4-5 marine harassment at their natural. 2. Muta/Lurk tech transition This is when the Zerg is still researching lurk tech. If his muta harass is subpar, he will have no choice but to defend ur push. 16-20 marines will easily rip apart through anything he can throw against you with ease, provided you have a couple firebats and don't walk into a trap. Be cautious though, some zergs like to bait you with a seemingly vulnerable position, only to completely wipe out ur force with a muta/ling force the size of the screen. 3. Hive tech Obviously this is the most critical timing there is. You really don't want him to have map control and hive tech, so at the very least move out and proceed to kill his 3rd gas. This is also the most ideal time so far to start an expansion while you are still competing for map control. Also, some zergs will also have exploitable timings due to their slower scout/reaction time, so other timings appear such as sunk break timings, run-by, or pushes when they start their 3rd gas. Pushing is simple enough with pure marine; you just run when they attack you. Most zergs aren't dumbasses and will attack you with a respectable flank. All you gotta do is run back and allow them to funnel, and then proceed to shoot everything. If you get completely surrounded, you didn't scout enough and walked into a freakin trap. If u have tanks, it's almost like a TvP timing push except with MnM.
i never said it had to be 1/2 rax tech. you can do 3 rax tech, but getting a factory when the spire is done is ridiculously late. many progamers get it much earlier than that even when 3 raxing with fe.
and by the way you talk about tvz, it seems like a terran should never be in the middle of a flank. sometimes, it is just inevitable. you are not always able to evade a flank.
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On March 04 2009 11:19 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 10:56 imBLIND wrote:On March 04 2009 09:39 ramen247 wrote:
the factory timing is not a good one in this build.
a faster tech should be considered in tvz nowadays. Yea it should, but 1rax or 2 rax tech builds are rarely used because it gives up macro and map control for a vessel at 9 minutes. This build is great for very very aggressive zergs that build a crapload of shit just to force you to stay in or when the map is huge and u are confident in ur expo killing abilities. 4rax after expo is pretty agressive, and 3rax + fac is the safest tech there is. TvZ pushing should be done whenever the zerg is trying to force you to stay in the map. That is a clear indicator that they do not want you roaming around the map because they are either powering drones, teching, or expoing. The entire purpose of mid game ZvT is for the Z to contain the terran until they have hive tech, and it's the Terran's job to hinder his tech. There are at least 3 exploitable timings that zergs have 1. Before pool is finished - The zerg is vulnerable to their overlord being sniped if they are too careless about their scouting path. The zerg will also be forced to waste 2-4 larvae on lings to deter 4-5 marine harassment at their natural. 2. Muta/Lurk tech transition This is when the Zerg is still researching lurk tech. If his muta harass is subpar, he will have no choice but to defend ur push. 16-20 marines will easily rip apart through anything he can throw against you with ease, provided you have a couple firebats and don't walk into a trap. Be cautious though, some zergs like to bait you with a seemingly vulnerable position, only to completely wipe out ur force with a muta/ling force the size of the screen. 3. Hive tech Obviously this is the most critical timing there is. You really don't want him to have map control and hive tech, so at the very least move out and proceed to kill his 3rd gas. This is also the most ideal time so far to start an expansion while you are still competing for map control. Also, some zergs will also have exploitable timings due to their slower scout/reaction time, so other timings appear such as sunk break timings, run-by, or pushes when they start their 3rd gas. Pushing is simple enough with pure marine; you just run when they attack you. Most zergs aren't dumbasses and will attack you with a respectable flank. All you gotta do is run back and allow them to funnel, and then proceed to shoot everything. If you get completely surrounded, you didn't scout enough and walked into a freakin trap. If u have tanks, it's almost like a TvP timing push except with MnM. i never said it had to be 1/2 rax tech. you can do 3 rax tech, but getting a factory when the spire is done is ridiculously late. many progamers get it much earlier than that even when 3 raxing with fe.
and by the way you talk about tvz, it seems like a terran should never be in the middle of a flank. sometimes, it is just inevitable. you are not always able to evade a flank.
isnt it a bitch when you get totally flanked? i love m&m's though.. nothing like retreat a few steps, fire, repeat and cycle~~ or better yet, somehow ur medics were positioned so well they form like a semi circle around your marines... oh god that is lovely
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This is an amazing build
much more economical than artosis's build order he gave in the difference between foreigners and koreans topic.
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On March 04 2009 12:00 petzergling wrote:
sry i have no respect for protoss players that is why this is a TvZ thread, aka the only real matchup in scbw
hence why you should make an awesome BO analysis on TvP ^_^
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On March 04 2009 12:11 Jonoman92 wrote:
God are you like an Idra clone or something? A true BW player loves all MU's!
idra is only joking when he says that. i dont think petzergling is.
This is an amazing build
much more economical than artosis's build order he gave in the difference between foreigners and koreans topic.
i dont understand. the build artosis gave was perfectly fine.
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On March 04 2009 12:35 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 12:11 Jonoman92 wrote:
God are you like an Idra clone or something? A true BW player loves all MU's! idra is only joking when he says that. i dont think petzergling is. Show nested quote + This is an amazing build
much more economical than artosis's build order he gave in the difference between foreigners and koreans topic. i dont understand. the build artosis gave was perfectly fine.
Yes, his build is good
but this one is better
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thnx for explanation good guide
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On March 04 2009 11:19 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 10:56 imBLIND wrote:On March 04 2009 09:39 ramen247 wrote:
the factory timing is not a good one in this build.
a faster tech should be considered in tvz nowadays. Yea it should, but 1rax or 2 rax tech builds are rarely used because it gives up macro and map control for a vessel at 9 minutes. This build is great for very very aggressive zergs that build a crapload of shit just to force you to stay in or when the map is huge and u are confident in ur expo killing abilities. 4rax after expo is pretty agressive, and 3rax + fac is the safest tech there is. TvZ pushing should be done whenever the zerg is trying to force you to stay in the map. That is a clear indicator that they do not want you roaming around the map because they are either powering drones, teching, or expoing. The entire purpose of mid game ZvT is for the Z to contain the terran until they have hive tech, and it's the Terran's job to hinder his tech. There are at least 3 exploitable timings that zergs have 1. Before pool is finished - The zerg is vulnerable to their overlord being sniped if they are too careless about their scouting path. The zerg will also be forced to waste 2-4 larvae on lings to deter 4-5 marine harassment at their natural. 2. Muta/Lurk tech transition This is when the Zerg is still researching lurk tech. If his muta harass is subpar, he will have no choice but to defend ur push. 16-20 marines will easily rip apart through anything he can throw against you with ease, provided you have a couple firebats and don't walk into a trap. Be cautious though, some zergs like to bait you with a seemingly vulnerable position, only to completely wipe out ur force with a muta/ling force the size of the screen. 3. Hive tech Obviously this is the most critical timing there is. You really don't want him to have map control and hive tech, so at the very least move out and proceed to kill his 3rd gas. This is also the most ideal time so far to start an expansion while you are still competing for map control. Also, some zergs will also have exploitable timings due to their slower scout/reaction time, so other timings appear such as sunk break timings, run-by, or pushes when they start their 3rd gas. Pushing is simple enough with pure marine; you just run when they attack you. Most zergs aren't dumbasses and will attack you with a respectable flank. All you gotta do is run back and allow them to funnel, and then proceed to shoot everything. If you get completely surrounded, you didn't scout enough and walked into a freakin trap. If u have tanks, it's almost like a TvP timing push except with MnM. i never said it had to be 1/2 rax tech. you can do 3 rax tech, but getting a factory when the spire is done is ridiculously late. many progamers get it much earlier than that even when 3 raxing with fe. and by the way you talk about tvz, it seems like a terran should never be in the middle of a flank. sometimes, it is just inevitable. you are not always able to evade a flank.
Well you can't always avoid a flank, but that doesn't mean it's insta-win. MIcro a bit yea? You just can't walk wherever you want; you're gonna get pincered. All you gotta do is scout the spots where a flank is most likely and walk with caution
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Out of curiosity, what account did you get C+ on?
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Is it me, or is your 2nd gas really late? I usually grab it around the timing of my 3rd rax, because if the push doesn't kill the zerg, then I usually follow up with skterran, and the built up gas helps for pumping vessels/dualeng upgrades.
edit: Nice guide laying out a standard tvz build. I still need to work on refining my build past the 50 supply mark or so.
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I'm confused. What do you do if you don't see a hatch..when does the CC go down then? right after the depot? or do you keep scv + marine production and then get a CC. I just find that even if I build CC after the depot, it finishes before 34 supply count; if i don't see 12 hatch on the first base i scouted, am i supposed to build it in my main and fly it down?
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15/18 Depot:
Build this with your 14th SCV that comes out. Use a similar position to your first with this one, keep it out of the way and by your minerals
15/18 1 Marine:
Place on ramp to ward off drone scout and to spot zerglings. If you suspect 9 pool you can place marine in your mineral line to ensure they survives.
16/18 Marine:
This marine is massively important so make sure you watch this more then anything else. You will only have this lone marine when zerglings come if early pool.
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Nice work, terran guides have been a bit rare for a while so its nice to finally see some up-to-date ones.
On March 04 2009 12:00 petzergling wrote:
sry i have no respect for protoss players that is why this is a TvZ thread, aka the only real matchup in scbw
lol (i'm not a protoss just fyi.)
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should always get fac before +1 and marine range, regardless of 2 or 3 rax (vs 3 hat)
and your opening build is ok but if you dont scout them in time to do 1 depot cc its better to
barracks depot marine cc barracks gas acad, all off 1 marine. bunker only if you scout 8 initial lings, also start building marines if you see that. bats and meds will be out in time to block 3 hat speedling.
generally want your 2nd gas as your fac is 90%~ done, varying slightly with how quick youve teched and a few other things. do not wait for starport to get it, you'll be gas starved in most circumstances
you didnt cover it but assuming your opponent is going normal hive timing you should get your 3rd cc and 2nd starport as well as switching to mines during your first tank/vessel timing push.
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oh in your last post you advocated continuing tanks. dont (vs 3 gas hive). it is good to switch back into tanks once youve secured a 3rd gas for a while, but you need all your gas for 2 port vessels and mines are more useful against lurk/defiler anyway, so you should cut tanks for mines for a while before you both get better econ established.
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Factory before +1? When do you get your 2nd gas, idra? Oh and if you get acad before second barracks, when do you add your 2nd and possibly 3rd barracks?
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[B]On March 04 2009 09:39 ramen247 wrote:
i never said it had to be 1/2 rax tech. you can do 3 rax tech, but getting a factory when the spire is done is ridiculously late. many progamers get it much earlier than that even when 3 raxing with fe.
and by the way you talk about tvz, it seems like a terran should never be in the middle of a flank. sometimes, it is just inevitable. you are not always able to evade a flank.
...Not you again.
The factory timing here's is fine....Why do you keep coming onto TvZ threads and posting incorrect information? Does it make you happy or something?
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He is right, factory after the spire is done? thats ridiculously late. With factory that late, his ebay is late as well. should start before the acad is finished, immediately after at the latest.
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On March 05 2009 00:32 Cloud wrote:
Factory before +1? When do you get your 2nd gas, idra? Oh and if you get acad before second barracks, when do you add your 2nd and possibly 3rd barracks?
i said in that post, before the fac finishes. 90 percent complete is a rough estimate.
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You sure about that idra...I mean I don't want to argue with you cause that would obviously be a stupid thing to do, but in almost all pro reps I've seen fact is gotten around 6:00-6:40 after +1 and range
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Well, im pretty sure factory is always before range (and 2nd gas right after factory), but i never build it before +1, although i also take my gas later, since i usually go 2 barracks before gas.
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+1 isnt gonna finish in time for mutas, but will easily be done in time for any timing push either way. marine range will finish in time for muta harass either way. why not get the factory first? getting it 250 gas later makes a serious dent in your timing push. the 3rd gas starts to kick in on their lurker count.
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hmmm, I might be wrong bout this after all. Was just judging from what I've seen. Don't see any reason why range before fac is necessary at all now that I think about it.
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awesome. Well ty for that.
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+1 first isnt necessary either, although it can be better in some situations. +1 is a big help vs mutas, so if theyre doing extended muta harass the faster you have +1 the better, but its hard to know how much theyre gonna dedicate to mutas before you have to decide. that ones more of a judgement call, but always fac before range.
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Thx for the additional info Idra, keep it coming if possible, you're an important source.
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It would be nice if it was against P considering that P is 99% on ICC .
Great guide nevertheless :D
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Just finished reading the whole thing =D
That is one awesome guide, will put this in my favorite forum bookmarks under guides/strats ^^
I'll also show this to one of my newbie terran friends, been wanting to teach him some good build orders but I don't know any very well myself, lol. ^^
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Ahhh but your sc2gg guides were still really good...
Well, no doubt your posted guides here will be just as good/better :D
<3
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why is it whenever i see reps of pros playing TvZ, they always get their turrets up at 52 psi, not 62? oO isn't a factory at 60 too late for timing attack?
And for idra, i thought it was 1 rax, to 1 academy + 1 ebay, get stim + 1 attack, and then get 2 more rax totalling to 3 rax. Then you start factory with the next 100 gas....
But in your post you said you get fax before +1 attack... That must be some pretty fast factory........
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On March 05 2009 00:33 Piy wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On March 04 2009 09:39 ramen247 wrote:
i never said it had to be 1/2 rax tech. you can do 3 rax tech, but getting a factory when the spire is done is ridiculously late. many progamers get it much earlier than that even when 3 raxing with fe.
and by the way you talk about tvz, it seems like a terran should never be in the middle of a flank. sometimes, it is just inevitable. you are not always able to evade a flank. ...Not you again. The factory timing here's is fine....Why do you keep coming onto TvZ threads and posting incorrect information? Does it make you happy or something?
no it makes me happy to be right.
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On March 05 2009 06:43 YPang wrote:
why is it whenever i see reps of pros playing TvZ, they always get their turrets up at 52 psi, not 62? oO isn't a factory at 60 too late for timing attack?
And for idra, i thought it was 1 rax, to 1 academy + 1 ebay, get stim + 1 attack, and then get 2 more rax totalling to 3 rax. Then you start factory with the next 100 gas....
But in your post you said you get fax before +1 attack... That must be some pretty fast factory........
'it was' ?
thats a different build designed specifically for fast upgrades
not what we're talking about
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petzergling, sick guide man. i like how i was sorta mentioned in the intro =P yeah.. its been awhile and i switched to zerg. lets game!
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Please, teach the terrans to play vs the protoss mob, stop picking on us few and noble zergs.
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On March 04 2009 06:56 petzergling wrote:
46/52 Sunken Threat:
Once stim and medic+firebat finishes you can move to zerg natural to force zerg to place sunken colony. If you are against ICC or noob user this will be the first time you will know If your opponent is good. If he is playing properly he will only have 1 sunken as you leave your base and as you go he will build more. As you reach his base if he has more then 1 just hang out there for a minute and then retreat back to your base. Also as you are doing this try to do anything you can to be annoying to zerg/demoralize them/get advantage. This can mean
This is the only part I don't like. You don't want to go all the way to his nat, since there is no way for you to tell whether he has 12 speedlings ready to counter. Push out 1/3 distance is enough to force sunkens. If you really want to push, push out with first bat and medic but hang close to your nat until you have an additional bat and medic to block the ramp.
Best way to tell how good Z is at this point is to see whether his lings are keeping track of your army. Good Z will run lings close by to see exactly where you are, this is difficult for lower level or just slower Z players cuz they have to multitask while keeping contant check on his lings so they don't run into marines and die.
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i cant even trust the guide... tl members, use stylish's guides over this one.
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ok so can you push out of ur natural before you get tanks so you wont contained completly?to you have to wait for tanks and vessel?
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I always noticed forgg always moves out with 2 tanks and has the vessel and third tank catch up.
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On March 05 2009 12:56 ZzZzAnG wrote:
ok so can you push out of ur natural before you get tanks so you wont contained completly?to you have to wait for tanks and vessel?
Lurker contain is not a problem, siege up ur tanks and scan to drive the lurkers back. This is a balanced build with relatively fast vessels, no need to risk pushing out early.
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why do i always think that 60 psi factory is WAY too late........
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On March 05 2009 13:33 YPang wrote:
why do i always think that 60 psi factory is WAY too late........
cuz it is...
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On March 05 2009 12:56 ZzZzAnG wrote:
ok so can you push out of ur natural before you get tanks so you wont contained completly?to you have to wait for tanks and vessel?
if you opened 3 rax you can move your mm out (for example on destination go out in front of your bridges, or on chupung go up to your front high ground) when +1 finishes, because their mutas wont be able to do much to you. on most maps its not really necessary though, just on maps with unique features that make it hard to push back a lurk contain.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
mmm can you post some reps of you doing this build? It can be vs comp or whatever you want.
It looks like a pretty good guide though. I'll use it to get back into TvZ
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On March 05 2009 14:49 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2009 13:33 YPang wrote:
why do i always think that 60 psi factory is WAY too late........ cuz it is...
As long as you get it by 60 psi, your push should come before defilers kick in.
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On March 06 2009 04:21 petzergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2009 12:30 w3jjjj wrote:
This is the only part I don't like. You don't want to go all the way to his nat, since there is no way for you to tell whether he has 12 speedlings ready to counter. Push out 1/3 distance is enough to force sunkens. If you really want to push, push out with first bat and medic but hang close to your nat until you have an additional bat and medic to block the ramp.
Best way to tell how good Z is at this point is to see whether his lings are keeping track of your army. Good Z will run lings close by to see exactly where you are, this is difficult for lower level or just slower Z players cuz they have to multitask while keeping contant check on his lings so they don't run into marines and die. read the spoiler under it
The spoiler isn't accurate. Z doesn't have to sacrifice anything to get 12 speedlings at that push timing. The indicators such as low drones or faster speed upgrade that you gave point to a mass lings rush, but Z can play normal and still have that counter option available. So those indicators cannot predict whether you can safely push to their nat. What I'm suggesting is that there is no need to take that risk, you can push out 1/3 distance and accomplish the goal of forcing sunkens, so why bother going to their nat and risk a counter when there is no additional gains to be made.
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I dont see any rangers in this build order.
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On March 06 2009 05:04 w3jjjj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 04:21 petzergling wrote:On March 05 2009 12:30 w3jjjj wrote:
This is the only part I don't like. You don't want to go all the way to his nat, since there is no way for you to tell whether he has 12 speedlings ready to counter. Push out 1/3 distance is enough to force sunkens. If you really want to push, push out with first bat and medic but hang close to your nat until you have an additional bat and medic to block the ramp.
Best way to tell how good Z is at this point is to see whether his lings are keeping track of your army. Good Z will run lings close by to see exactly where you are, this is difficult for lower level or just slower Z players cuz they have to multitask while keeping contant check on his lings so they don't run into marines and die. read the spoiler under it The spoiler isn't accurate. Z doesn't have to sacrifice anything to get 12 speedlings at that push timing. The indicators such as low drones or faster speed upgrade that you gave point to a mass lings rush, but Z can play normal and still have that counter option available. So those indicators cannot predict whether you can safely push to their nat. What I'm suggesting is that there is no need to take that risk, you can push out 1/3 distance and accomplish the goal of forcing sunkens, so why bother going to their nat and risk a counter when there is no additional gains to be made.
I always try to sneak out and scan to see if i can run up their ramp =p
If he scouts you, then he still has to put sunks up anyways
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On March 05 2009 17:07 alphafuzard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2009 14:49 ramen247 wrote:On March 05 2009 13:33 YPang wrote:
why do i always think that 60 psi factory is WAY too late........ cuz it is... As long as you get it by 60 psi, your push should come before defilers kick in.
the 3 tanks barely make any difference if you push that late due to such late tech.
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On March 04 2009 06:56 petzergling wrote:
Introduction
For a while in my SC career I was D/D+ and just playing on ICC and east, but I wanted to practice a little and get better. I met a few guys and played with them almost daily and after a few days the other terran in the group asked me a few questions on my build order. The concept, being completely foreign to me, I just told him the truth -- I kind of built stuff whenever I had the money and didn't really have supply timings memorized. He was completely shocked, and afterward he showed me the standard "FD" build order for TvP, and within a few weeks I had a major increase of skill level and ICC rank (easily C- after this point) now that I had learned a build order. After this success I started researching some more BO's, and eventually I reached where I am at now, about a C+ level(still horrible).
Here's my problem with Petzergling. A few months ago I played him on day 1 of the season and raped him. He went on my youtube videos and posted irate comments.. After 25 minutes or so of him doing this, he started spamming me on iccup. Saying I suck, I just cheese newbs on iccup. (I did standard 11-rax and then bunker rushed him when I saw he was a poor zerg.)
He convinced me to give him vent info and he came into vent and said he just wanted my attention for a rematch. After I said I don't play BM players, he continued to harass me. Finally I offraced him ZvT and he lost because he didn't understand the concept of scv blocking your ramp from zerglings. (I think it was an overpool without speed. :\) He became irate again. "How did you know I was there? It was a lucky guess." "Yeah, it was lucky that my overlord skimmed your CC and then skimmed your cliffs."
I wish that was all. A month after that, he makes a post on sc2gg claiming that I suck because I downranked on the first day of the season. (playing D's as D+) He started flaming violently but it didn't really matter because he sucked and it was SC2gg... So to stand up for myself I just laddered hard for a week, got C+ and then he shut up.
He used to write Terran guides claiming to be C/C+ when he was in reality, D/D+. A lot of his guide and strategy responses on SC2gg were literally copy pastes from TL threads or other sources.
And finally, on an iccup thread where he had to list his accounts, (A week or so ago,) over 180~ games, his best account was C- with like, 50-48 stats.
So, I guess my point is.. I'm still annoyed at this kid for flaming me and being the creepiest BM sore loser I've ever played.
All that said, you seem to put a lot of work into this and it's a relatively solid build... But I'm still skeptical of you as a player/person.
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That's funny, I remember seeing those comments on your FPVOD.
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i cant even trust the guide... tl members, use stylish's guides over this one.
QFT.
i have nintu to back me. personally i dont think petzergling is good enuff to be instructing others as well.
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Earlier in the thread, I asked for his account which he got C+ on and he dodged it and brushed me off by calling me a troll. The reason I asked was because I saw him playing about a month ago (in a TvP, not a TvZ) and I would put it at D+ at best. I was curious if his TvP was just horrendous or if he was extrapolating his rank like so many people annoyingly enjoy doing, or he had really just had a super rank jump in a couple weeks.
Still a nice guide though.
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On March 06 2009 10:10 404.Nintu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 06:56 petzergling wrote:
Introduction
For a while in my SC career I was D/D+ and just playing on ICC and east, but I wanted to practice a little and get better. I met a few guys and played with them almost daily and after a few days the other terran in the group asked me a few questions on my build order. The concept, being completely foreign to me, I just told him the truth -- I kind of built stuff whenever I had the money and didn't really have supply timings memorized. He was completely shocked, and afterward he showed me the standard "FD" build order for TvP, and within a few weeks I had a major increase of skill level and ICC rank (easily C- after this point) now that I had learned a build order. After this success I started researching some more BO's, and eventually I reached where I am at now, about a C+ level(still horrible). Here's my problem with Petzergling. A few months ago I played him on day 1 of the season and raped him. He went on my youtube videos and posted irate comments.. After 25 minutes or so of him doing this, he started spamming me on iccup. Saying I suck, I just cheese newbs on iccup. (I did standard 11-rax and then bunker rushed him when I saw he was a poor zerg.) He convinced me to give him vent info and he came into vent and said he just wanted my attention for a rematch. After I said I don't play BM players, he continued to harass me. Finally I offraced him ZvT and he lost because he didn't understand the concept of scv blocking your ramp from zerglings. (I think it was an overpool without speed. :\) He became irate again. "How did you know I was there? It was a lucky guess." "Yeah, it was lucky that my overlord skimmed your CC and then skimmed your cliffs." I wish that was all. A month after that, he makes a post on sc2gg claiming that I suck because I downranked on the first day of the season. (playing D's as D+) He started flaming violently but it didn't really matter because he sucked and it was SC2gg... So to stand up for myself I just laddered hard for a week, got C+ and then he shut up. He used to write Terran guides claiming to be C/C+ when he was in reality, D/D+. A lot of his guide and strategy responses on SC2gg were literally copy pastes from TL threads or other sources. And finally, on an iccup thread where he had to list his accounts, (A week or so ago,) over 180~ games, his best account was C- with like, 50-48 stats. So, I guess my point is.. I'm still annoyed at this kid for flaming me and being the creepiest BM sore loser I've ever played. All that said, you seem to put a lot of work into this and it's a relatively solid build... But I'm still skeptical of you as a player/person.
Here's my problem with Nintu.
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3002/iccbashkz7.jpg
maybe you should spend more time WATCHING fpvods and less time MAKING them
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On March 06 2009 12:27 petzergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 10:57 ramen247 wrote:
i cant even trust the guide... tl members, use stylish's guides over this one.
QFT. i have nintu to back me. personally i dont think petzergling is good enuff to be instructing others as well. hi game? icc name petzergling i am under PetZergling on quakenet irc
im F- on iccup, but ill msg you sometime to play. ill offrace/zerg against you and see how snazzy your terran is.
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On March 06 2009 12:26 daz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 10:10 404.Nintu wrote:On March 04 2009 06:56 petzergling wrote:
Introduction
For a while in my SC career I was D/D+ and just playing on ICC and east, but I wanted to practice a little and get better. I met a few guys and played with them almost daily and after a few days the other terran in the group asked me a few questions on my build order. The concept, being completely foreign to me, I just told him the truth -- I kind of built stuff whenever I had the money and didn't really have supply timings memorized. He was completely shocked, and afterward he showed me the standard "FD" build order for TvP, and within a few weeks I had a major increase of skill level and ICC rank (easily C- after this point) now that I had learned a build order. After this success I started researching some more BO's, and eventually I reached where I am at now, about a C+ level(still horrible). Here's my problem with Petzergling. A few months ago I played him on day 1 of the season and raped him. He went on my youtube videos and posted irate comments.. After 25 minutes or so of him doing this, he started spamming me on iccup. Saying I suck, I just cheese newbs on iccup. (I did standard 11-rax and then bunker rushed him when I saw he was a poor zerg.) He convinced me to give him vent info and he came into vent and said he just wanted my attention for a rematch. After I said I don't play BM players, he continued to harass me. Finally I offraced him ZvT and he lost because he didn't understand the concept of scv blocking your ramp from zerglings. (I think it was an overpool without speed. :\) He became irate again. "How did you know I was there? It was a lucky guess." "Yeah, it was lucky that my overlord skimmed your CC and then skimmed your cliffs." I wish that was all. A month after that, he makes a post on sc2gg claiming that I suck because I downranked on the first day of the season. (playing D's as D+) He started flaming violently but it didn't really matter because he sucked and it was SC2gg... So to stand up for myself I just laddered hard for a week, got C+ and then he shut up. He used to write Terran guides claiming to be C/C+ when he was in reality, D/D+. A lot of his guide and strategy responses on SC2gg were literally copy pastes from TL threads or other sources. And finally, on an iccup thread where he had to list his accounts, (A week or so ago,) over 180~ games, his best account was C- with like, 50-48 stats. So, I guess my point is.. I'm still annoyed at this kid for flaming me and being the creepiest BM sore loser I've ever played. All that said, you seem to put a lot of work into this and it's a relatively solid build... But I'm still skeptical of you as a player/person. Here's my problem with Nintu. http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3002/iccbashkz7.jpgmaybe you should spend more time WATCHING fpvods and less time MAKING them
As I said, I downranked first day of the season. I'm not embarassed by it really. It's legal and me and 2 other people were racing for C on day 1. (All of us downranked.)
I got C+ 51-24 stats last season while being stupidly rusty and without a single down-rank.
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On March 06 2009 10:57 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +
i cant even trust the guide... tl members, use stylish's guides over this one.
QFT. i have nintu to back me. personally i dont think petzergling is good enuff to be instructing others as well.
Wait wtf you quoted yourself and said QFT?
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why the hell would he play your offraces if your terrible? Maybe if you train for a few months you can get as good as nintu so petzergling can offrace against you and actually get a bit of a challenge
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On March 06 2009 12:31 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 12:27 petzergling wrote:On March 06 2009 10:57 ramen247 wrote:
i cant even trust the guide... tl members, use stylish's guides over this one.
QFT. i have nintu to back me. personally i dont think petzergling is good enuff to be instructing others as well. hi game? icc name petzergling i am under PetZergling on quakenet irc im F- on iccup, but ill msg you sometime to play. ill offrace/zerg against you and see how snazzy your terran is.
He won't block his ramp. EZPZ. =)
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On March 06 2009 12:15 petzergling wrote:
hiyo
to nintu -- i fuckin love u bro
dr.dragoon i got c+ on petzergling last season, as anyone who has played iccup knows the season 10 stats arent showing up on the site so I didn't bother linking you to account
IC now that a few of the people posting in this thread are just nintu's friends so that explains alot of the random trash
I've literally never spoken to anyone who has replied so far. By judging by their content, I'd love to chill with Ramen and DRDragoon sometime.
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On March 06 2009 12:34 daz wrote:
why the hell would he play your offraces if your terrible? Maybe if you train for a few months you can get as good as nintu so petzergling can offrace against you and actually get a bit of a challenge
If people want I can upload both games against petzergling. I also have 2 friends in vent who can quite accurately retell the story of Petzergling in vent with us, asking me for tips, apologizing for what he said on youtube because he wanted my "attention."
I'll never forget: "u bunkr rush me! u cant win n e other way."
"THAT WAS AN 11RAX. Did you fuckin' 16pool?"
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On March 06 2009 12:34 daz wrote:
why the hell would he play your offraces if your terrible? Maybe if you train for a few months you can get as good as nintu so petzergling can offrace against you and actually get a bit of a challenge
i was fucking kidding smart one. there is no f- on iccup.
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regardless of whether or not there is an F- im sure your still terrible so my comment applies
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On March 06 2009 13:08 daz wrote:
regardless of whether or not there is an F- im sure your still terrible so my comment applies
You're not doing this right. You're just being openly offensive and obnoxious. Atleast Petzergling made an effort and said he loved me. I remember when disagreements were settled with subtle passive aggressiveness and trying to obtain moral high-ground. There's no room for "your bad lololol"
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Pet. Hop on by our server? We'll give you some games. I'll be fair with my assessment and if you're truly C/C+ it will show. You don't have to win, I just wanna make sure you're not like D, y'know? I'll PM vent info.
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On March 06 2009 13:08 petzergling wrote:
ramen game pls?
i said i would. you are on all the time anyways. just be patient. and i need to train my offrace xD.
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YES I LOVE WHERE THIS THREAD IS GOING
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On March 06 2009 12:33 skyglow1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 10:57 ramen247 wrote:
i cant even trust the guide... tl members, use stylish's guides over this one.
QFT. i have nintu to back me. personally i dont think petzergling is good enuff to be instructing others as well. Wait wtf you quoted yourself and said QFT?
lmfao shhh...
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you mentionaed pros go 3rax until their tech tree is complete if you can add more rax before u get science fac. when do you add more rax?
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On March 06 2009 13:41 ZzZzAnG wrote:
you mentionaed pros go 3rax until their tech tree is complete if you can add more rax before u get science fac. when do you add more rax?
about adding more rax, why dont you just add them when you have the minerals to...
and idra said, when you first push, get eh 3rd cc.
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thanks for your work pet. im cunty from the localsc days. you did great commentary for milky and me.. that was when i first started and played noobtoss... this guide prompted me to study and start playing more Terran...'preesh
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On March 06 2009 13:41 ZzZzAnG wrote:
you mentionaed pros go 3rax until their tech tree is complete if you can add more rax before u get science fac. when do you add more rax?
You can add 2 or 3 raxes if u don't build tanks while teching to vessels
Although that's not the smartest idea unless you really know what you're doing
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add more barracks after you build your 2nd ebay and sci fac
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I don't know anything about your dispute or anythin like that but I just want to tell you guys that lowranking on D or C isnt that uncommon early season.
I for example accept 1 rank under, same rank and 1 rank above when i create a game, and if anyone meets those standards i start the game. If it said D D+ C- mostly D will join in the early season hence you will get alot of games vs -1 rankers.
So drop that stuff will ya..
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Yea I'm sure nintu painstakingly picked out his opponent by looking at their profiles and only playing people who have done badly in previous seasons. You sound really dumb right now.... And it would probably be more beneficial for you to play people of C- rank anyway. If you play a B rank player you probably aren't going to learn much because you just get rolled.
If you want to support your OP and topic you should just ignore people who are criticizing your character because, assuming the content is correct, it shouldn't really matter.
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On March 08 2009 05:55 Jonoman92 wrote:
Yea I'm sure nintu painstakingly picked out his opponent by looking at their profiles and only playing people who have done badly in previous seasons. You sound really dumb right now.... And it would probably be more beneficial for you to play people of C- rank anyway. If you play a B rank player you probably aren't going to learn much because you just get rolled.
If you want to support your OP and topic you should just ignore people who are criticizing your character because, assuming the content is correct, it shouldn't really matter.
yes, that is how newb stomping works. thats exactly what he did. why would calling him out on it be stupid? and i dont think he was saying he played B players on purpose, its just that early in the season everyone is still low ranks so your going to run into B players that are still at D or D+. Unless of course your nintu who can play 36 games and not play anyone over the C- level
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On March 08 2009 13:06 daz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2009 05:55 Jonoman92 wrote:
Yea I'm sure nintu painstakingly picked out his opponent by looking at their profiles and only playing people who have done badly in previous seasons. You sound really dumb right now.... And it would probably be more beneficial for you to play people of C- rank anyway. If you play a B rank player you probably aren't going to learn much because you just get rolled.
If you want to support your OP and topic you should just ignore people who are criticizing your character because, assuming the content is correct, it shouldn't really matter. yes, that is how newb stomping works. thats exactly what he did. why would calling him out on it be stupid? and i dont think he was saying he played B players on purpose, its just that early in the season everyone is still low ranks so your going to run into B players that are still at D or D+. Unless of course your nintu who can play 36 games and not play anyone over the C- level
but it doesnt matter...savior can go on iccup and downrank to A+. we would still love him. it doesnt matter if nintu downranks. he still beats petzergling.
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I'm sorry I posted in this, but daz I think it's much more likely nintu played his opponents based on chance rather than by selecting the weakest ones he could find. I don't know him at all, but if he really does do that it's punishment enough in itself that anyone would be low enough to do that and there isn't much need for anyone else to spend their time pointing it out.
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On March 08 2009 13:54 Jonoman92 wrote:
I'm sorry I posted in this, but daz I think it's much more likely nintu played his opponents based on chance rather than by selecting the weakest ones he could find. I don't know him at all, but if he really does do that it's punishment enough in itself that anyone would be low enough to do that and there isn't much need for anyone else to spend their time pointing it out.
its not chance when it happens 36 times in a row. Also think you underestimate how nerdy people are, this is quite common, its not like nintu is the only guy doing this.
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On March 08 2009 14:08 daz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2009 13:54 Jonoman92 wrote:
I'm sorry I posted in this, but daz I think it's much more likely nintu played his opponents based on chance rather than by selecting the weakest ones he could find. I don't know him at all, but if he really does do that it's punishment enough in itself that anyone would be low enough to do that and there isn't much need for anyone else to spend their time pointing it out. its not chance when it happens 36 times in a row. Also think you underestimate how nerdy people are, this is quite common, its not like nintu is the only guy doing this.
Okay. Let's end this debate.
First of all, yes I down-ranked. Secondly, no I did not check their online profile. Do you really believe that iccuppers have the patience to wait in game lobby while I check their fucking match list? No. Who on fucking earth would stay for that? Also, anyone who knows me at all knows that my SC can't alt-tab without resulting in me having to end-task. But whatever.
It doesn't even matter. I got C+ with 51-24 record over the course of a few days with 0 downranks, playing against tons of blue ranks. I can show anyone, any replay of me against good players like Inka, sortof, machine, whoever the fuck. If I've ever claimed to have played someone, I have a replay to back it up and will give it to anyone upon request. Case closed. I have nothing to hide. I did downranked, which is legal, early season.
And finally. Since Zergling and Daz are being immature about this, they both joined my vent server as discussed and they started Bming and calling me names and shit. I set him up to play against my offracing friend, where he got raped, making tons of D+ level mistakes. (Replay/vod anyone? I recorded and saved)
The highest rank that any of the observers were comfortable to give him was C-. After the fact, when Daz learned his place and openly admitted to "trolling" the vent server, and apologized for how BM he was, I said I wouldn't post results in this thread.
Seeing now that they still think I'm some random iccup abuser, and the risk of any D through C Terran taking advice from a C-(atbest) newbie, I decided to post results.
Sorry man. Why would you continue to BM me after you've proven yourself to be a much weaker player than you let on. (Sorry, but C+ is a rofl.)
Have anything else you'd like to say? Wanna talk more about downranks, and about how even B+ players do this? Or about your record vs me? anything? Okay. Back on topic.
This guide is not bad. It's not a terrible build though I disagree with parts of it. I still think zergling is a lying BM dick and any advice that he hasn't regurgitated from talented players, is highly suspect.
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I worded that slightly wrong. It's fine if a C- gives D/C- advice. But not if he claims to be better than he is, and not if he starts personally attacking me.
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Yes i do have some more things to say. here they go
1. yes i do believe you really checked profiles and stats and bashed newbs
2. i do not believe you were 51-24 C+ while playing blue ranks and shit, especially cause i checked your iccup page today and it said 51-32. and i also believe that anyone who cares enough about stats to newb bash at any point probably does it all the time and you probably did last season too.
3. stop fucking bragging about being C+. I mean really who the fuck cares, there are hundreds of C+ players just getting to C+ is not hard, settle down. stop acting like your some gosu player. just cause your good enough to bash all your friends in vent that you play with that doesnt mean your a fucking progamer and need to be teaching everyone starcraft. Im happy for you that you arent totally awful at starcraft but stop rubbing it in everyones face.
4. petzergling didnt say shit i was the only one who was bming you he was actually being pretty nice. And i did offer you to play me to shut me up but instead you set up a game for your friend to play petzergling. And nowhere in that time did you or any of your friends say anything about him offracing, and also i love how you dont mention that petzergling beat your friend in the second game. how convenient to leave that out. Did you record and save that replay/vod too?
5. Who cares what rank your vent friends were comfortably able to give him? The fact is that he was C+ last season too and he DIDNT bash newbs and thats more then I can say about you. Also please dont make it seem like i was apologizing to you cause i was embarassed and didnt want you to "post results" or some stupid shit like that. I didnt really apologize at all i just told you why i was talking shit to you and told you that you gained some respect from me cause you werent the huge faggot i was expecting. Oh and also when the hell did anyone bring up anything about "posting results" the other night. Making shit up is not cool.
6. When i "learned my place"??? What the fuck are you talking about, just becuase i stopped making fun of you constantly doesnt mean i "learned my place" its actually fucking tiring and hard to constantly rip on someone for more then 15 minutes, especially when that person is actually being cool about it like you were, and thats why i stopped talking shit to you, cause you reacted like a man and not a little girl and i respected that. And besides what possibly could have happened last night to make me learn my place? None of you played me...
7. Dont act like "not posting results" would have been a favor to us, especially as that conversation didnt even actually happen. By all means, please post all the results you want. You make it seem like we were embarassed or something. Your friend won a game and lost a game vs petzergling. So what? How the fuck did that teach me my place?
8. I dont see how you dodging me the other night has proven me to be a weaker player then i let on. Im still perfectly willing to crush you any time.
9. Petzergling isnt bming you and hasnt been, and not only that but i dont see how going 1-1 proves him to be a weaker player. Why the hell are you directing your posts to him when IM the one whos talking shit to you?
10. If any B+ players downranked to get to B+ then they arent really B+ fucking players are they?
Your record vs me is 0-0. Im perfectly willing to change that.
11. Its pretty fucked up for you tell people that his advice is suspect and accuse him of "regurgitating" it when you give out tons of advice yourself and your just as much if not more suspect then he is with your newb bashing and lying about stats when he doesnt do any of that shit.
12. Petzergling is a BM dick and so am I but your the only nerd here who is lying.
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rage is too strong. i would say moderate irritation
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i disagree, good sir.
raged are you
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i meant like mma cagefight you goofy nerd
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fuck a cage lets just brawl, i wanna tear you apart with my bare hands
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Iccup didn't have previous season statistics until like.. Today? I really, genuinely did not believe pet got to C+. I am surprised to see it, but good on him. The assessment from fortehswarm of C- and all that shit was not made up.
Yes, you guys are huge BM dicks. (you more than zergling.)
I never, ever brag about C+. I don't think it's worth bragging about in the slightest. That C+ record from last season, which I honestly thought was 51-24 (again, no previous season statistics, and that was the last record I remember.) didn't have a single down-rank. I only played my rank or above.
Daz. You're so fucking obnoxious. You come into a SC vent and say "I would be better than you guys but I'm not a fucking nerd like you." You troll on vent, you troll on TL and that's that. Perhaps I am taking you too seriously, but it's only because you keep using the same material, that's already been discussed and acknowledged by me.. seriously. If you wanna troll go ahead, but stay relevant.
Petzergling is in vent right now and we're calmly discussing things in a productive way. You're the only one sitting here throwing flames. I acknowledge that Pet is not BAD, and most of the anger is stemming from you trolling the shit out of me and saying I bash newbs on iccup, which I don't. I downrank appropriately at early season, which is LEGAL and COMMON. I never hid that and I have no idea why it's even a topic of conversation.
I will not play you for the same reason I would not play Petzergling from before. If I lose, I will be ridiculed. If I win I will be BM'd, spammed, trolled, attacked, etc... It's lose fucking lose. I do not play BM trolls. That's that. If you'd like you can take that as a "ZOMG NINTU DODGE," I really don't care how you take it. =)
Anyway. Rofl? Let's just let it die. This is like, the least interesting TL drama ever. Nobody cares. This thread shouldn't be bumped except for discussion based on the OP.
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On March 08 2009 14:02 petzergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2009 13:36 ramen247 wrote:On March 08 2009 13:06 daz wrote:On March 08 2009 05:55 Jonoman92 wrote:
Yea I'm sure nintu painstakingly picked out his opponent by looking at their profiles and only playing people who have done badly in previous seasons. You sound really dumb right now.... And it would probably be more beneficial for you to play people of C- rank anyway. If you play a B rank player you probably aren't going to learn much because you just get rolled.
If you want to support your OP and topic you should just ignore people who are criticizing your character because, assuming the content is correct, it shouldn't really matter. yes, that is how newb stomping works. thats exactly what he did. why would calling him out on it be stupid? and i dont think he was saying he played B players on purpose, its just that early in the season everyone is still low ranks so your going to run into B players that are still at D or D+. Unless of course your nintu who can play 36 games and not play anyone over the C- level but it doesnt matter...savior can go on iccup and downrank to A+. we would still love him. it doesnt matter if nintu downranks. he still beats petzergling. 1v1?
dont worry i will. i want to humiliate you with my offrace so i have to practice.
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ramen play me right now i wanna fucking crush you
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On March 08 2009 17:32 daz wrote:
ramen play me right now i wanna fucking crush you
I endorse this. I'm really very bored.
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On March 09 2009 07:10 petzergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2009 17:34 404.Nintu wrote:On March 08 2009 17:32 daz wrote:
ramen play me right now i wanna fucking crush you I endorse this. I'm really very bored. nintu I think you should stop with the d+/c- shit you are giving this kid false hopes =(
LOL? that was all with zerg noob. remember? my OFFRACE.
and a lot of those losses camefrom zvp. you are not p. kk?
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United States17042 Posts
I am so confused. I remember this thread being up, and then I checked it like 5 days later, and now i'm here -_-;;
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On March 09 2009 09:06 petzergling wrote:
k i just uninstalled starcraft, im heading up to wal mart after i make a few web updates for my business and im buying warcraft three
sorry everyone for the worst d+ drama ever
i dont get it bro
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On March 09 2009 09:39 daz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2009 09:06 petzergling wrote:
k i just uninstalled starcraft, im heading up to wal mart after i make a few web updates for my business and im buying warcraft three
sorry everyone for the worst d+ drama ever i dont get it bro
LOLOLOLOLOLOLLOOL!!!!
oh cmon pet, you are such a loser.
i will make a separate thread with replays in them.
edit: actually i wont. any one want the replays pm.
it was a bo5 showmatch...but after 2-0 he left. there is text in the replays.
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On March 09 2009 10:23 zulu_nation8 wrote:
make a blog to gloat imo
yea...we got like 4 pages of flamethrowers
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On March 09 2009 10:32 petzergling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2009 09:39 daz wrote:On March 09 2009 09:06 petzergling wrote:
k i just uninstalled starcraft, im heading up to wal mart after i make a few web updates for my business and im buying warcraft three
sorry everyone for the worst d+ drama ever i dont get it bro idk what there is to get i explained it pretty well im gonna play terran in wc3, i watched 1 progame vod now i understand everything about the game -- updating bnet now
you mean "human"
or do you mean NE, cuz imo NE is most similar to terran.
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On March 04 2009 06:56 petzergling wrote:
sorry for plagueing the community with terrible advice i am a terrible starcraft player
XD
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why did he erase the guide ?is it bad?or cuz he lost to someone
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On March 09 2009 11:44 ZzZzAnG wrote:
why did he erase the guide ?is it bad?or cuz he lost to someone
Must a ego thing, but honestly, if he REALLY believes that he's fit and good enough to write this guide, then no amount of cut downs would affect him... but however this is not the case.
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On March 09 2009 11:44 ZzZzAnG wrote:
why did he erase the guide ?is it bad?or cuz he lost to someone
yea i beat him.
pm for replays.
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So how was the quality of this guide? Preferably an objective opinion. Too much drama imo.
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On March 09 2009 11:50 Archaic wrote:
So how was the quality of this guide? Preferably an objective opinion. Too much drama imo.
the guide is outdated and bad. many ppl support that it is bad, including cloud and idra, both prominent members of this forum.
artosis' build is much better with minor tweaks, and even stylish's 9 minute push would make for a better standard build than this.
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wat
edit: wow... lol. i have nothing else to say.
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the last half of this thread disgusts me.
some of you guys are pathetic
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petzergling, if you're really qutting, then i hope you quit because you're not having fun anymore, not because you lost a BO5, or just not good enough in general. how are you ever suppose to get good at anything if u just quit as soon as you see an obstacle? This doesn't refer to only SC, but everything in general...
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lol just read some of the drama posts, I think a blog battle report with screen shots is necessary. and reps, reps are good, especially the kind with text.
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On March 09 2009 12:50 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
lol just read some of the drama posts, I think a blog battle report with screen shots is necessary. and reps, reps are good, especially the kind with text.
i dont really wanna do that. someone else is welcome to do it.
and you can get reps from me thru pm.
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Umm what happened to the post?
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You know you need a hobby when you start flaming yourself. Seriously though, I don't now how bad or good the guide was cause I came to late to read it so I can't say who is right or wrong but I can say that it was a dick move deleting the build because this has now become a flame thread which last time I checked, don't have anything to do with Strategy in starcraft.
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On March 09 2009 13:02 ilistis wrote:
Umm what happened to the post?
read the thread.
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this is why you need to learn to ignore dumbasses like ramen247 and nintu
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On March 06 2009 13:36 zulu_nation8 wrote:
YES I LOVE WHERE THIS THREAD IS GOING WENT
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I dont understand why you would delete the opening post because some people had different oppinions. It will always be the case.
Did you write this to help people or for your own attention?
Anyway I would suggest that you either re-write the guide to help people improve or that the admins close this thread because it will continue with the flamewar.
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those people admitting to being bm? there's a hint of pride in those admissions. horrible people. bm is basically unsportsmanlike conduct. terrible behavior as players
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On March 09 2009 18:08 StylishVODs wrote:
I dont understand why you would delete the opening post because some people had different oppinions. It will always be the case.
Did you write this to help people or for your own attention?
Anyway I would suggest that you either re-write the guide to help people improve or that the admins close this thread because it will continue with the flamewar.
ding ding ding
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Entertaining read, but some of you guys are taking this game waaay too seriously.
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1) Cloud plays zerg and there are many Clouds, so you are probably confused.
2) Quitting over what someone says over the internet is pretty stupid. If they told you what went wrong, then you should fix it, not throw away everything over minor issues.
You still sound like you want attention based on your last few comments @_@.
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This is sad. If his BO really did suck, then let it die out for gods sake.
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On March 10 2009 05:28 dhe95 wrote:
This is sad. If his BO really did suck, then let it die out for gods sake.
best bump ever
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On March 04 2009 06:56 petzergling wrote:
sorry
basic summary of what happened:
1. i watched a bunch of replays to try to get better at tvz, wrote down a basic bo, and i had a couple of extra hours on a friday at work so i explained all of the things and formatted it pretty
2. lower level players thanked me, higher up players made some corrections and helped me make it better. Some terran nerds who write garbage posts and get flamed for what they write flamed me(cus thats what happens to them) about what i wrote (i just copied some replay so wtf does it matter).
3. I end up playing two series of games, one of which is against nintu's supposed b- friend who I went 1:1 with, I played extremely nervous and robotic losing the first game but I was able to compose myself in the second game. After talking about the game and saying gg's to the zerg he apparently said I was an extremely unskilled player and blamed his loss to me on painkillers. I played a second series with this ramen247 guy who dominated me two games in a row (2nd game with 9 pool, my tvz bane for some reason) and I decided to stop playing the game competitively -- I have major stress problems and I'm not able to compose myself in serious matches. Without hope of playing the game at a high level the fun kind of dies out you know?
4. I deleted the guide and my post responses, basically because of negative critiques from a pretty large group of people. Yeah I did it for attention, but not from the community -- from them. If you go back and read their posts I don't see what else they could have wanted other then my reputation trashed and the guide removed -- so there they go.
5. I bought wc3 and I'm probably going to lose a bunch of games because I cant outmacro people with 55 apm and I'm just going to come back to starcraft in a week and just D bash until I feel better.
I figured this would have been done a long time ago but I guess it didnt -- it would be nice if a mod closed this as it hasn't contained any real strategy discussion for the last few days
A noob friend of mine who I didn't even know browsed tl asked me to repost the guide back up but all I have saved is the first two pages or so. If anyone for whatever reason has it saved as a word doc or something if you could pm it to me so I could give it to him that would be great -- thanks
Couple things I'd just like to say:
1. I think you were taking this game way too seriously. Based on your comments, you seem to believe that it is impossible to play for fun AND play @ a high level/seriously, which is simply not true. I am going to guess that you just are spending too much time revolving your life around the game but not actually playing it that much, and you are disappointed with the results when you do play. I've done that before, but eventually I learned that I get a lot more out of starcraft when I play for fun (playing for fun does not necessarily mean bashing lower-level players all day, you can play competitively and have fun at the same time, I mean isn't that the point of iccup/most ladders since they are not worth money anyway?). Though I am just guessing that this is relevant to your situation based on your comments, ignore this if I am completely off.
2. Just because you lose to a B- and some other guy w/200 apm, why should that be a reason to quit playing? Perhaps they are simply better than you (and probably have been playing a lot longer as well)? Can't you just admit they are better players then move on? See this is why bming and shit-talking is bad because it leads to situations like this.
I think you need to chill out a bit and have fun with the game.
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btw the second game wasnt a 9 pool.
it was overpool XDDDDD.
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United States3824 Posts
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Resonance summed it up well, keep playing, have fun!
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United States3824 Posts
By the way you can probably piece it back together from the quotes.
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after reading this i gotta say is...
ramen your a douche bro. even if you won a bo5 in that manner there's no point in flaunting it like that
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Vatican City State21 Posts
This thread is fucking disgusting. It's just a bunch of the flamers on TL bashing this guy for trying to do a service, calling him noob, blahlbah, when he very very clearly stated that he didn't want any argument over skill levels, that he wasn't that good, and that he was just copying the BO straight from a large number of replays.
Instead we get this circle jerk of 404.Nitrogen, 404.Nintu, and RamenNumbers blowing each other and high fiving as they carry this thread into the bowels of x17 hell. This shit is fucking pathetic. Since when has "RAGE ESSAY IMO LOL" been an acceptable post? Where the fuck is the moderation in the strategy forum? The reason this forum sucks so much is because every fucking strategy thread just degenerates into a bunch of dick measuring pissing contests between the fucking clowns from East who populate this site but barely hold their retarded BM in check. Then when anyone who isn't a known player suggests they have any modicum of skill these East scrotums feel that it's their duty to put them down and be a dick, as if it's some sort of sick brag and they're justified in humiliating the person.
Please, get the fuck out of the strategy forum, because you don't contribute jack fucking shit to anything, and all you do is flame people who are trying to make a decent strategy post. Go fucking whack off on East to your buddies and ROFL LMAO with them as you rape D- noobs in UMS pub obs games.
This kind of bullying garbage is fucking pathetic. Yea, I guess he "learned his place," are you fucking kidding me? Grow the fuck up you infantile little prick.
On second thought, you're all dickhead, petzergling included. This thread is just a dickhead paradise.
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On March 10 2009 06:35 WildRed wrote:
This thread is fucking disgusting. It's just a bunch of the flamers on TL bashing this guy for trying to do a service, calling him noob, blahlbah, when he very very clearly stated that he didn't want any argument over skill levels, that he wasn't that good, and that he was just copying the BO straight from a large number of replays.
Instead we get this circle jerk of 404.Nitrogen, 404.Nintu, and RamenNumbers blowing each other and high fiving as they carry this thread into the bowels of x17 hell. This shit is fucking pathetic. Since when has "RAGE ESSAY IMO LOL" been an acceptable post? Where the fuck is the moderation in the strategy forum? The reason this forum sucks so much is because every fucking strategy thread just degenerates into a bunch of dick measuring pissing contests between the fucking clowns from East who populate this site but barely hold their retarded BM in check. Then when anyone who isn't a known player suggests they have any modicum of skill these East scrotums feel that it's their duty to put them down and be a dick, as if it's some sort of sick brag and they're justified in humiliating the person.
Please, get the fuck out of the strategy forum, because you don't contribute jack fucking shit to anything, and all you do is flame people who are trying to make a decent strategy post. Go fucking whack off on East to your buddies and ROFL LMAO with them as you rape D- noobs in UMS pub obs games.
This kind of bullying garbage is fucking pathetic. Yea, I guess he "learned his place," are you fucking kidding me? Grow the fuck up you infantile little prick.
On second thought, you're all dickhead, petzergling included. This thread is just a dickhead paradise.
are you a lurker? you made your first post on THIS?
lol....
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On March 10 2009 05:47 Resonance wrote:
alot of text
I decided to stop playing the game competitively -- I have major stress problems and I'm not able to compose myself in serious matches. Without hope of playing the game at a high level the fun kind of dies out you know?
and I'm just going to come back to starcraft in a week and just D bash until I feel better.
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On March 10 2009 06:49 petzergling wrote:Show nested quote +
I decided to stop playing the game competitively -- I have major stress problems and I'm not able to compose myself in serious matches. Without hope of playing the game at a high level the fun kind of dies out you know?
Show nested quote +
and I'm just going to come back to starcraft in a week and just D bash until I feel better.
-.-
Whatever works for you.
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i had no idea how epic this got. i kind of feel bad now cause i talked more shit then anyone. whoops
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On March 10 2009 06:29 nujabes wrote:
after reading this i gotta say is...
ramen your a douche bro. even if you won a bo5 in that manner there's no point in flaunting it like that
flaunt? you have no idea wat flaunting on tl.net means. if i flaunted and bragged you would see an entire THREAD dedicated to saying how i beat petzergling with screeshots, comical text, and some PUBLIC replays. i am not even close to doing that right now. i am keeping it within this thread and not giving out replays unless you pm. you see screenshots anywere of how petzerglling got raped?
no.
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On March 10 2009 07:27 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2009 06:29 nujabes wrote:
after reading this i gotta say is...
ramen your a douche bro. even if you won a bo5 in that manner there's no point in flaunting it like that flaunt? you have no idea wat flaunting on tl.net means. if i flaunted and bragged you would see an entire THREAD dedicated to saying how i beat petzergling with screeshots, comical text, and some PUBLIC replays. i am not even close to doing that right now. i am keeping it within this thread and not giving out replays unless you pm. you see screenshots anywere of how petzerglling got raped? no.
didnt i challenge you first?
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On March 10 2009 07:29 daz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2009 07:27 ramen247 wrote:On March 10 2009 06:29 nujabes wrote:
after reading this i gotta say is...
ramen your a douche bro. even if you won a bo5 in that manner there's no point in flaunting it like that flaunt? you have no idea wat flaunting on tl.net means. if i flaunted and bragged you would see an entire THREAD dedicated to saying how i beat petzergling with screeshots, comical text, and some PUBLIC replays. i am not even close to doing that right now. i am keeping it within this thread and not giving out replays unless you pm. you see screenshots anywere of how petzerglling got raped? no. didnt i challenge you first?
no.
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On March 08 2009 17:32 daz wrote:
ramen play me right now i wanna fucking crush you
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Belgium8305 Posts
what the fuck
what did you monkeys do to this thread
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Zurich15361 Posts
Seriously what the fuck has been going on here? Seems like Chill needs to get more strict again.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/113/iccupramen.jpg)
