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TechniQ.UK
United Kingdom391 Posts
So even though im not good I know quite a lot just dont put it into practice, so like can anyone make up a list of what I should perhaps teach him, and in what kinda order. I mean tonight i was speaking to him explaining how the supply count works etc... He's coming round tomorrow I'm gonna show him about hotkeys n' stuff. I was thinking like basic keyboard use n' stuff (like using shift, ctrl, hotkey etc...) then perhaps some build orders for toss. What you guys think? I need some helpz. ty | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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micronesia
United States24753 Posts
Most importantly he needs time to practice and get used to the interface before you can teach him much of anything significant. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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Pholon
Netherlands6142 Posts
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Dgtl
Canada889 Posts
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minus_human
4784 Posts
sadly, Starcraft has gotten so IMBA for any potential new players | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
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Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
Definitely show him how competitive 1v1 works by demonstrating, don't make him plays lots of 1v1 though, he'll just suck for a long time and get bored. After a while, when he's played quite a bit, you can start showing him vods/replays and explaining what's going on. If he likes what he sees he'll be motivated to improve. | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
On February 24 2009 09:05 3clipse wrote: The very first thing I would teach, before even build orders, unit counters, scouting, basic strategy, etc is macro. As obvious as it is, new players just don't seem to "get" that you should always be pushing to the absolute extreme of your means- pumping workers constantly, keeping a decent infrastructure/supply count and keeping minerals low. In fact, when I was a complete and total noob many years ago, I remember thinking that I should actually be spending as few minerals as possible. My rationale was that, since resources are finite (at least minerals are) on low money maps, I should be making the most efficient setup possible- minimum army I need to stay alive, only a couple gates, so I wouldn't be the first to run out of resources. Maybe not all noobs are THIS deluded, but macro makes all the difference in the world when you're starting out. this is really valid noobs never understand that you're in a race from second one to mine and produce as much as possible, as QUICK AS POSSIBLE. Then you'll explain you need certain amounts of worker saturation to obtain the best infrastructure ,depending on how the game evolves and what type of timing you're aiming for | ||
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pyrogenetix
China5098 Posts
i just don't think it's possible for people to get into sc now, the pubbie level is just so high already he will lose interest and would have just wasted his time. its harsh but you know it's true. | ||
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TechniQ.UK
United Kingdom391 Posts
Anyway hmm dunno i mean i could play terran vs him without using my keyboard or something  Thanks for all the advice, I agree about keeping his interest in the game, like any suggestions on how to do that? | ||
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Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
I say ignore all those people telling you what part of competitive broodwar to teach him, just let him play the game and enjoy it. Interest in bw develops naturally, just do what most casual gamers do, UMS, bgh, etc. | ||
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Duke
United States1106 Posts
 i dont think letting him watch you play is a great idea since him playing would be so much better, both for improvement and learning. i suppose to inspire him or something it could be ok, but I think you should let him play around with patrol vultures and mines. and nukes. maybe guiding him through some campaign and teaching the basicsmicro is more fun at first imo you should work on that and maybe play ums if he gets frustrated | ||
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Centric
United States1989 Posts
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ahole-surprise
United States813 Posts
Also, do not force protoss on him even if it is the most noob friendly race. A pure noob is crap regardless of race, only once they get to some level of competency does the protoss noob advantage play out. | ||
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RekY
United States4 Posts
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dhe95
United States1213 Posts
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Tehinf
United States192 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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404.Nintu
Canada1723 Posts
On February 24 2009 09:21 Nytefish wrote: What's wrong with playing a game for fun? I say ignore all those people telling you what part of competitive broodwar to teach him, just let him play the game and enjoy it. Interest in bw develops naturally, just do what most casual gamers do, UMS, bgh, etc. I disagree entirely. I knew SC existed before but when I heard that SC2 was being released, I was bored and it sparked a lot of interest. I went to gosugamers to follow the news of the unveiling and between news posts I saw foreigner rankings and a link to pro-games on youtube. I was shocked to learn that an old RTS had such a following. I was so interested and excited to learn about progamers, build orders, strategy, etc.. that I started playing almost immediately. After learning the absolute basics, like what units did what and what hotkeys were, I jumped right into APM and build orders. You can't force someone to be interested. But if they are genuinely interested and passionate, they can jump right into strategy, build orders and mechanics. Assuming of course that they know what units did what and that basic shit. | ||
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SCC-Bean
United States17 Posts
Then like everyone said, just play for fun: 3v3BGH, UMSs like Team Micro Arena, watch reps, or join 1v1play/ob games. | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
One day I found a link to an old Nada game (might have been vs Yellow?). They were playing in a huge outdoor stadium. This blew my mind. There was a place in the world where people would sit in a crowd and watch people play this game. There had to be something more to it. After that I started watching some old pro vods and was blown away at both the strategic depth of the game and the lightning fast dexterity of the pros. If something had this kind of fanbase and this sort of absurd skill ceiling it had to be worth playing. That said, I watched reps, vods and obs games for a loooooong time to get a feel for the game (and just for entertainment) before I even started playing. I became a member at gosugamers for all the top foreigner replays, but TL eventually won me over as my #1 site with it's superior progaming coverage. | ||
Arrian
United States889 Posts
I got my friend to buy the game. He became interested in multiplayer soon thereafter, so I taught him two builds, which he repeats to no end: 5pool, and proxy hatch. He finds it endlessly amusing. | ||
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Ethelis
United States2397 Posts
i agree about teaching him macro and make sure to let him know not to tech in so many directions (i.e upgrading infantry armor for terran if hes getting mech and whatnot) | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
Based on my experience, you should let him play (campaign or 2vCpu with him) and explain stuff when he asks. For example if he's a total noob, as soon as he understands the worker/army concept, he'll be making tons of zealots. Now when he makes his first dragoon (or when a CPU controled muta comes bugging him), you should be there to explain how dragoons work and how handling his zeal/goon ratio has got to be an important part of his gameplay. Then you do the same when he makes a DT for the first time etc... I'd say keep the damage/armor spreadsheets for when he's hooked  . | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Play one Mu and One BO agianst him repeatedly until he starts to get a hang of things. Give him pointers, etc. MORE SCVS GOOD TO GO SIRRRRRRRR | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
Until he's comfortable playing at around 80APMish at least and his mechanics are starting to cohere, don't worry about BOs and timings and whatnot. | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On February 24 2009 10:26 404.Nintu wrote: I disagree entirely. I knew SC existed before but when I heard that SC2 was being released, I was bored and it sparked a lot of interest. I went to gosugamers to follow the news of the unveiling and between news posts I saw foreigner rankings and a link to pro-games on youtube. I was shocked to learn that an old RTS had such a following. I was so interested and excited to learn about progamers, build orders, strategy, etc.. that I started playing almost immediately. After learning the absolute basics, like what units did what and what hotkeys were, I jumped right into APM and build orders. You can't force someone to be interested. But if they are genuinely interested and passionate, they can jump right into strategy, build orders and mechanics. Assuming of course that they know what units did what and that basic shit. A person who's just started the game won't have a clue as to what to do when first starting out. It's dumb to teach someone a 1 rax FE if he has absolutely no clue why he's doing it. Until he's at the level where he understands, even just a little bit, how much of a difference getting that CC up that much faster makes, it's pointless teaching him stuff he won't understand until he's played the game more. You can throw someone straight into the competitive playstyle and gamble his interest. Most likely he will become frustrated as hell and become inactive. If he's one of the few, he'll stick to it and finally manage to break into the D- range sooner than otherwise. Or...you can let him build his own interest and let him learn because he wants to. He'll be more likely to stick with SC, even if it takes him longer to break into D-. | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
On February 24 2009 09:21 Nytefish wrote: What's wrong with playing a game for fun? Yeah just let him play the campaign to learn the ropes of the game, and make sure he reads the "starcraft tips" that show up at the beginning of each campaign mission. That's how I learned about hotkeys and such. Once he beats all the campaign missions, he'll be a 40APM D--- player, and you can start to mold him into a competitive player from there if he's interested. | ||
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404.Nintu
Canada1723 Posts
On February 24 2009 12:01 PH wrote: A person who's just started the game won't have a clue as to what to do when first starting out. It's dumb to teach someone a 1 rax FE if he has absolutely no clue why he's doing it. Until he's at the level where he understands, even just a little bit, how much of a difference getting that CC up that much faster makes, it's pointless teaching him stuff he won't understand until he's played the game more. You can throw someone straight into the competitive playstyle and gamble his interest. Most likely he will become frustrated as hell and become inactive. If he's one of the few, he'll stick to it and finally manage to break into the D- range sooner than otherwise. Or...you can let him build his own interest and let him learn because he wants to. He'll be more likely to stick with SC, even if it takes him longer to break into D-. As I said in 2 different places in my post, once you have the basics down, what all the units do and the tech trees, and if he's genuinely interested, then you may aswell start teaching builds, economics, mechanics, etc.. The sooner you start, the sooner you compete at a decent level, the sooner you find competitive brood war rewarding. Ionno, there's nothing wrong with fun. I guess my idea of fun is winning against a gosu practice partner, not strip jessica alba. So many players that want me to teach them tell me that "I've been playing for years, but doing fastest and UMS. I wish I played low-money sooner." I've heard it enough to think that it's best to guide the competitive players down the "right" road instead of throwing them into a pile of "find your own ways to have fun in broodwar" | ||
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Volshok
United States349 Posts
1) Campaign: Explains all units in a simple and strait forward manner, and will help him build basic game sense. Ensure he plays every game without cheating. 2) Racial Selection: Have him select a race. Base the selection on what he finds the most fun. 3) Maps: Download the mappack from ICCUP. http://www.iccup.com/files/view/iCCup_Season_7_Full_mappack_02.html From here on out, all games he plays should be on these maps. Have him play 10+ games on each map before moving to the next. Prior to moving to the next map he should know both the layout of the current one, as well as the location of all expos (Even under the fog of war. Especially needed if he plays Terran). 4) BWChart: Download BWChart http://www.iccup.com/files/view/BWChart_1.03G.html Have him save all his replays and us BW's charts function to rename them. This helps him track his advancement (which can be very hard to gauge at times). It also also gives him a past record of all his games, so that he can see aspects of his gameplay that he needs to work on. 5) Basic Macro: The best way I've seen to practice this for new players is to play 1v 2/3/4 FFAs against the computer. FFA's encourage turtling, which isn't what we want, so in addition; give him a mineral limit to always be under during these games, and start high. It doesn't matter what he is building, as long he stays under the mineral cap you assign him. This should force him to sacrifice forces in order to produce more, which should help his game sense as his playstyle progresses. From my experience best way to culture macro skill is to work on one thing at a time. Starting with; a) Basic Economy: Ensure he has enough SCVs, and that he protects them from harassment. b) Production: Make sure he has enough production facilities. If anything, try to overdo his production, just so hes used to it. Tell him to attempt to have every building constantly producing units. Unit control is secondary at this point, so just create and throw away armies. He can attack move to the corners for the map if he wants, but he needs to be comfortable with constantly losing and creating units. c) Expansions: Try to win every FFA with at least 4 bases at the end (He needs to get used to expanding and defending, timing expansions comes later). d) Supply: If he hits his supply cap, he needs to move his army out and attack. 6) Basic Micro: It's time to stop throwing away the units he produces. Have him maintain his macro level and actually controlling his army in fights. Sounds like a small step but this is massively important. I could keep going, but I need to get back to my paper. I'll continue some other time if you want. Also, I'm not an amazing SC player, so I help my friends practice a lot. Feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt. | ||
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MONSTEr2
United States43 Posts
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Reason
United Kingdom2770 Posts
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x89titan
Philippines1130 Posts
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
once he gets better (if he still likes the game) show him more advanced stuff, and show him some vods and stuff. also introduce him to UMS maps for fun | ||
LosingID8
CA10829 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
1. So, expose him to the game. Campaigns are the best. That's what I do when I learn a new game, is to jump to campaigns first to get the hang of it. Let him complete all 6 chapters his own. If he has trouble, get him to read guides, or give him a tip or 2. Screw the macro part. Who cares if he turrets/turtles in every mission, and move out with 200/200 fully upgraded pure Hydra/Dragoon/Tank army. He's just learning the game atm. 2. Now that he's familiar, expose him to 1v1 games, 1v2, 2 vs comps or whatever. Be it low money or fastest or BGH. Go easy on him definitely. Let him do whatever build he wants. This is where you try to teach abit of macro. Tell him he should try to be constantly producing units. Don't bother with other mini aspects like constant SCV production etc. Focus on just the main units first. Its just the exposure. Let him know why you're usually winning, with more focus on the units. Let him know how Hydras rape Dragoons, Dragoons rape Vultures etc. This way, he would know more on how each unit works, and which is more effective than the other etc. 3. Perhaps show him some cool videos. Pimpest plays would be great of course. It would certainly amaze him since he is now able to understand why they're considered 'pimp. Maybe expose him to some progaming games, or even the scene itself. He might not be willing to commit to watching them though, but it's certainly worth a try. 4. Hopefully with interest, he's now willing to give proper 1v1 a shot. The videos should give him a rough feel on how 1v1 is, how there's usually a certain build order, scouting etc. From here, teach him some standard build orders on popular maps. Teach macro etc etc. From here on, its actually up to you, since if he's at this point, he probably is rather interested in learning. It's pretty much a step by step thing. Kinda applies to most games as well. Just don't rush things =] | ||
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