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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On May 19 2008 14:38 HeadBangaa wrote: Nice fucking post, Moltke. And a synopsis of a-game: Your definition of socialism sucks. What a-game was advocating would best be described as being Third Way. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32165 Posts
On May 20 2008 01:47 Jibba wrote: No Child Left Behind was never a good idea. The states are meant to be the ultimate authority on education, not the federal government. Well Im kind of on the fence about this. How are you supposed to compare an A student from Jersey with an A student from Cali if one state doesnt require 3 years of language, or four years of science (things I believe my state is doing next year?) for colleges? | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On May 20 2008 04:13 Hawk wrote: Well Im kind of on the fence about this. How are you supposed to compare an A student from Jersey with an A student from Cali if one state doesnt require 3 years of language, or four years of science (things I believe my state is doing next year?) for colleges? Look at the classes they took and hold an interview. Curriculum should be custom tailored on a somewhat local level, and really can't be unified with a country as large as the United States. Do you think a kid growing up in CA should have the exact same education as a kid growing up in NJ? They're totally different environments. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On May 20 2008 10:46 HeadBangaa wrote: My sister is a math teacher at some inner-city San Diego school (blacks and mexicans only, pretty much) and she often goes off on this "no child left behind" business. Not sure myself. I will bug her about it. Imagine if your school's federal funding was based off of its average SAT score. Teachers would then start teaching to pass the SATs, not actually teaching to teach. That's actually a horrible example, because the federal government provides little funding for education to states. Again, education has always been in the states' realm of power and they're the ones who do most of the funding for it, not Washington. Here's some quotes from the Department of Education's webpage: 10 Facts About K-12 Education Funding 1. The U.S. Constitution leaves the responsibility for public K-12 education with the states. 3. States and localities are the primary sources of K-12 education funding and always have been. 9. There are no unfunded federal education "mandates." Every federal education law is conditioned on a state or other grantee's decision to accept federal program funds. What #9 means is that the federal government threatens to withhold funds if the states don't accept, thus the states have "agreed" to the program. A similar situation is in place with the legal drinking age. The states actually get to decide what the age limit is but if they don't comply with the government's standard, a large portion of their road maintenance funding is withheld. I'm not trying to derail the thread any further, but it's an enormous issue and it boggles the mind that the executive chief of the country's 48th (something around there) worst education system was allowed to restructure the national education system. | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
Something similar happened in Singapore years ago, when the opposition contested fewer than half the seats for parliament and won more of them than they ever have since (they won 4 out of 80+, which is a landslide victory in Singapore politics). The idea was that voters could happily vote for the opposition without worrying about "accidentally" voting in a new government, which nobody wanted to do. So I'm guessing that Clinton will actually get more votes now because lots of people who are a little doubtful about Obama will think they can vote for her to make a statement without worrying about her actually being the nominee. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32165 Posts
what a coinkydink, a story about NCLB! Jibba, why wouldn't you wanna have everyone at more or less the same level? | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Furthermore, the federal government has very little direct incentive or feedback (ie. money) from the program, so it's less likely to fix things than the state governments that have a lot at stake. It's very communist in that way. You can say the government's incentive for wanting an educated populace is adequate, but in reality it's not. Their money isn't at stake, so they're less accountable. Hell, all I needed to say is that it's unconstitutional. Even if it were a perfect plan, they can't simply pass a law to get it done. If it got taken to court, they'd find that the money is significant enough that it isn't optional so the states are being coerced into accepting the program and not really agreeing to it. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32165 Posts
 So I don't get it, how does NCLB get a pass on being constitutional? | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On May 20 2008 22:33 Hawk wrote: Fair enough So I don't get it, how does NCLB get a pass on being constitutional? Because it would need to be challenged by the defendant (a state.) There's a few similar things that are unconstitutional, but have yet to be challenged. The Defense of Marriage Act signed in by President Clinton is another one of those. Point 1: No state (or other political subdivision within the United States) need treat a relationship between persons of the same sex as a marriage, even if the relationship is considered a marriage in another state. That's illegal. Every state must recognize the laws that another state has passed, so every single state needs to recognize the legitimacy of a gay marriage from MA. The reason it hasn't gone to court is because gay couples are not the defendants, as they aren't being infringed upon. For the case to go to trial, a state like MA, whose constitutional authority is being ignored, would need to file suit. Of course an amendment would make this all moot, but not simply a law. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32165 Posts
You a law student or something? | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
I'm a poli sci student but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. + Show Spoiler + I took constitutional law and a state & local gov't class from a former member of the House. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32165 Posts
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gwho
United States632 Posts
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a-game
Canada5214 Posts
On May 21 2008 11:06 gwho wrote: McCain, Hilary and Obama are all CFR members. the race is already over. CFR won the moment Ron Paul, Kucinich, and Gavel were out of the race. But technically Ron Paul is still in the race, so i'm voting for him. got a source for obama being a CFR member? | ||
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geometryb
United States1249 Posts
i think a lot of hillary supporters hate obama. there's a deeply divided party! In Kentucky, "just half of the Democratic voters said in exit polls that they would back him in the general election this fall." | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
I can't find a credible source that lists any of them as being CFR members. A certain spouse of one of the candidates; yes. The candidates themselves... not so much. | ||
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a-game
Canada5214 Posts
found this little gem: i'm willing to accept that for now. you had me scared for a second there gwho, i don't trust obama unconditionally but i'd been hoping he was clean, so it would be disappointing if we were to find some dirt on him PS. here's a written summary of the video for those who prefer that method of imbibing http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Obama_no_secret_trade_deals_0331.html | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On May 21 2008 14:36 geometryb wrote: democrats are so fucked i think a lot of hillary supporters hate obama. there's a deeply divided party! In Kentucky, "just half of the Democratic voters said in exit polls that they would back him in the general election this fall." Kentucky is not a battle ground state. gwho, you really are a crazy ass Ron Paul supporter. I'm glad you know how to read conspiracy blogs by 30 year old basement dwellers, but come on. They've all got some connection to just about every think tank. Next you can bring up Obama and socialism, uncovered by 60 year old McCarthy-ites who don't know what the fuck socialism is. I'd be much more worried about McCain's connection with Heritage than his connection with CFR. And sorry, but globalization is very real and there's not much you can do it stop it. There needs to be some type of regulatory commission to stop Bayer from shipping AIDS to 10 million people in Africa. The United States is not a pristine little island anymore. It hasn't been for 70 years. I really liked Obama's comments towards McCain on foreign policy last night. McCain keeps being touted as a foreign relations expert, but his attitude thus far has been purely for vote getting. He is too intelligent to actually believe in the good vs. evil, war on terror propaganda we've been fed for 7 years. If he just took a more Hagel-like approach (YES, A CFR MEMBER OH GOD), I wouldn't be completely opposed to him. I just want to further add that it's ridiculous that Ron Paul supporters jump on CFR because of the imaginary "one government" crap. It's so predictable. "BUT LOOK, DICK CHENEY WAS IN IT!!!!!!!" Yeah, so was Madeleine Albright, Tom Brokaw, Fareed Zakaria, etc. It's not a secret underground association, it's a think tank with a lot of different opinions and for anyone unfamiliar with it, my guess is that most of the posters here agree with its views. It's moderate-liberal, along with the Brookings Institute. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Crazy bitch. | ||
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