|
the hitler and whatnot arguments are pretty 7th grade level. i feel bad for even bringing it up. we are not in middle skool ne more, so be srs.
What is 7th grade level is failing to understand the sense of a comparison beyond the 1st degree. Of course radical Islamism is not the same creed as Nazism, but they have many common features. I recommend the "Obsession" documentary, which is slightly biased towards the US but nevertheless provides an intense insight at this religious creed.
to better make the u.s. accept this situation, portrayals of iran as irrational religionists are to be suppressed, even if they are irrational religionists, since the u.s. is populated by people who cannot react productively to this fact.
This, on the other hand, is a good point. Though, I fail to perceive what an alternative "productive" reaction would in term of public opinion... Human masses were never recognized for their refined and subtle mastering of complex geopolitical situations.
|
On April 21 2008 00:14 nimysa wrote:
Don't forget guys that Obama favors a national ID system, and supported parts of the patriot act. I say he's just a politican getting too much coverage, and giving false hope to people.
That's a common misrepresentation of Obama's stance on upholding the constitution. The vote for national ID was lumped together with other big ticket items like aid for Hurricane Katrina, so there was really no choice in the matter (it was 100% in favor). Obama voted for an amendment to the Patriot Act, not the original. His goal was to increase the rights of people, but you have to take it one step at a time. There was no way that the Senate would just scrap the Patriot Act altogether, so this was still an improvement.
|
i only follow politic casually.. but there's always one question.. why would anyone vote for Hillary?
|
On April 21 2008 03:34 artofmagic wrote:
i only follow politic casually.. but there's always one question.. why would anyone vote for Hillary?
She's a woman. That, and some people also follow the election casually and fell prey to her lies.
|
McCain: Cutting taxes more important than balanced budget
"The goal right now is to get the economy going again," the GOP presidential nominee-in-waiting said on ABC's "This Week," adding that he would put the country "on a path to a balanced budget" by attacking wasteful spending.
Both Clinton and Obama support higher taxes for people earning more than $200,000 a year. Obama also has said he wants a capital gains tax higher than the current 15 percent.
Reminded me of the previous poster when McCain said the solution was Reagan's approach.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
What is 7th grade level is failing to understand the sense of a comparison beyond the 1st degree. Of course radical Islamism is not the same creed as Nazism, but they have many common features. I recommend the "Obsession" documentary, which is slightly biased towards the US but nevertheless provides an intense insight at this religious creed.
if you look to make first degree comparisons, choose less crass and obviously rhetorical and insidious examples. however, you seemed to be drawing much broader of an analogy there, and since i dont really care to argue with you, i suggest you be honest.
|
A term that is used more and more often to describe radical Islamist extremism (which is quite redundant) is Islamofascism. The comparison is that the power structure of radical Islamism is very similar to that of fascism: Its leaders are venerated as gods (or direct representatives of God), the followers are not only ready and willing but eager to die for their cause, freedom is totally devalued, equality is also totally devalued (contrarily to communism) and violence is considered as a fair mean to have their views asserted.
The point is that Nazism and radical Islamism are two forms of fascism. Where Nazism claimed ethnical superiority, radical Islamism claims spiritual superiority. Where Nazism was a national totalitarianism, radical Islamism is a religious totalitarianism. They also have in common to focus an intense antipathy against the Jews, using anti-Semitism to channel their people’s hate. They both have highly organized systems to indoctrinate their youth in order to turn them into fanatics as adults and they violently suppress any dissidence, even within their own creed.
As for today, most of the Muslim world in the same state as pre-1933 Germany (the fascists holding only a fraction of the power); only Iran having established an actually Islamofascist regime (Afghanistan did it too, but we overthrew it). The good thing that the Western world can do in front of that is to do what it failed to do toward pre-Nazi Germany: Prevent the fascists from taking absolute power. I agree that it was a total blunder to attack Iraq (and, as I said previously, credit to Obama for his original stance) but I can’t understand how it is not obvious to everyone else that it would be a blunder just as grave to leave Iraq unstable and insecure… an easy prey for the Islamofascists.
That being said, I don’t think it is a crass and insidious example to compares radical Islamism to Nazism but I understand how you can be repulsed by it since it is true that many people compare Nazism with anything they don’t like (I am also very opposed to such despicable rhetoric since it minimises the horror of Nazism). On the other hand, I strongly believe that radical Islamism is the single contemporary reality which really deserves that comparison.
|
United States22883 Posts
The biggest fascists in the Arab world are the United States' bff.
|
Have you ever read anything about what is happening in the Muslim world?
You may also watch a segment of the documentary "Obsession".
The most vehement denunciators of Islamofascism are moderate Muslims because they are the first and most immediate victims of it. You may be one of those who choose to close their eyes in front of these events but that would make you a highly egoistical person; worst than the corporatists that you hate within your country.
|
United States22883 Posts
I'm not quite sure if or why that post was directed at me.
|
Ehm, yes it was; maybe I misunderstood you?
You said the biggest fascists in the Arab world were the United States, so I replied that the Islamofascists are way more fascist than the United States and that it is irresponsible to see our local problems as much graver than the foreign problems when they clearly are not.
|
"islamofascists" did not bomb 911. 911 could have only been carried out from the inside.
definition of terrorism. using violence to create mass fear to control/submit.
the neocons with machiavelian philosophies and New World Order agenda are the biggest terrorists.
We need to go back to honoring the constiuttion and listening. to the founding fathers. trade with all, alliance and war with none. think of all the places we have been with our military. do we honestly believe that suddenly we're doing such a wonderful thing and spreading democracy and fighting off evil, when in old times we have a greedy, world domination bent mentality of virtually every state? what has been consistent throughout the centuries is also demoestic propaganda in persuading the aggressing country that they are righteous. we took the carribean. the two ww have settled europe. the east and southeast have been touched. africa was subjugated long ago. central banks hold everything and now what's left are the arabs.
here comes new babylon, the world soon sending massive army of 200 million to israel, the antichrist taking his "seat" (ex cathedra) from the city of 7 hills. watch revelations unfold.
|
United States22883 Posts
On April 22 2008 06:05 War_Minister wrote:
Ehm, yes it was; maybe I misunderstood you?
You said the biggest fascists in the Arab world were the United States, so I replied that the Islamofascists are way more fascist than the United States and that it is irresponsible to see our local problems as much graver than the foreign problems when they clearly are not.
I said the biggest fascists were our bffs. "United States' bff." = United States' best friends forever = Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
EDIT: The post above this one makes me laugh every time. If only we had reverted to the gold standard, we could've prevented the Rapture.
|
please
never use the word islamofascism again
it only makes you sound stupid
|
I said the biggest fascists were our bffs. "United States' bff." = United States' best friends forever = Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
Oups, I missed the "bff" (I supposed it was some typo); sorry for my comment that you didn't deserve. Saudi Arabia certainly has a dangerous regime but I think Iran is quite more dangerous because it is more openly promoting fanaticism... but I admit this can be debated.
never use the word islamofascism again
it only makes you sound stupid
And certainly, this kind of deep, subtle and refined comment demonstrates your wonderful intelligence.
|
islamofascism is a loaded word, used for propaganda. There is a reason you primarily hear it in the American bible belt. It allows people to inspire fear and competitive nationalism by using words with strong emotional links. It is used to further "war on terror" and make it not just combating individual extremists, but fostering an us vs them, ultranationalist mentality. Its the same reason people use "axis of evil," and it deserves to be laughed down.
'islamofascism' is not generally a government system. It doesnt have Mussolini's corporatism, or squadristi.
If you wanted to link it to a World War II era word for dramatic effect, you would be better off referencing volkish thought, or radical nationalism (which also, in that period contained the same longing for a golden age, call for unity against lesser countries/races).
If you wanted to be accurate, you would just say Islamic radicalism, or Islamic extremism.
But thats not a strong enough propaganda word.
On War & Peace: Islamofascism must disappear from the face of the earth
It is right for us to be on the offense against Islamofascism, and not wait until they attack us on our soil. Unlike any war we have ever fought in this nation, this is not a war for soil. It is a war for our soul. We will either win it or we will lose it. This nation must rally to the point where we recognize there is no compromise. There is no alternative. We must win; they must lose. Islamofascism must disappear from the face of the earth, or we will.
Source: Mike Huckabee, Speeches to 2008 Conservative Political Action Conference Feb 7, 2008
See what he did?
|
Aaah, better. Thank you for the elaboration.
I will not deny that this word was certainly invented for propaganda purposes. On the other hand, it must be realised that what some call “sensitization” will be called “propaganda” by others. I am of those who call the use of the term Islamofascism sensitization because radical Islamism appears to be the gravest human threat of our era and, as you said, radical Islamism is not “catchy” enough for people to really pay attention. Just like how liberals say “racism” instead of “ethnical discrimination” to increase the psychological effect of their message, I think it’s fair when conservatives say “Islamofascism” instead of “radical Islamism” for the same reason
Though, I disagree that radical Islamism does not deserve a parallel with fascism. It may not be a government system in most cases but it strives to be so (just like every fascist movement was before to take control of a government)! In all cases, it is a structure of power and, ultimately, power is what decides the day.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
oy, you think fascism is some kind of bossu level monsta in politics, no. be creative and generous enough, mostly all authoritarian systems can be called fascist. to use fascism nowadays is to write a book on nonliberal politics. the word has moved on from a concrete political reality to an analytical term. it has no impact. you are better off talking in terms of rights and social conditions, if you want to get a rise out of contemporary political theory
naziism on the other hand, is a specific and particular historical situation with a body of empirically relevant features. one could show naziism is this and this by showing what the nazis did historically. it is not enough to point to fascism and pretend you have a substantial analogy. for instance, much of the nazi fear is in the geopolitical threat nazis pose. to say iran is of the same level as fucking nazi germany would be taken as a poor attempt at a joke in most circles.
anyway, i was bored so i wrote so much, but you are obviously operating in ideologue mode. i do not care to make you realize as much, i am just interested in laughing at you.
anyway, take a softer tact, and i'll ease up on you.
|
I'm going to laugh when after all of this shit for the democratic nominee, Mccain wins it.
|
to say iran is of the same level as fucking nazi germany would be taken as a poor attempt at a joke in most circles.
anyway, i was bored so i wrote so much, but you are obviously operating in ideologue mode. i do not care to make you realize as much, i am just interested in laughing at you.
I am actually studying philosophy of law and regularly attend conferences given by great political and social thinkers. If, according to you, comparing Nazi Germany to contemporary Iran would be a joke in "most circles", this means that your circles are all conformist intellectually because, in my academic circles, the comparison is taken very seriously (even if some disagree with it). The idea of you laughing at me for my ideological reflection (because it is indeed what it is) does not make me laugh: it rather makes me pity you for your intellectual shallowness. I guess you just need a way to value yourself...
As for the core of your comment, I don't have much to answer. I stressed a series of analogies and common features between fascism and radical Islamism, and also the specific points where they must be dissociated. It is not true that fascism is just any authoritarianism because it is an absolute brand of it called totalitarianism. Fascism is a specific type of totalitarianism and radical Islamism is very similar to that; replace the corporate bodies with religious bodies as its source of power and it's pretty much the same. About Nazism, your comment only demonstrates how meaningful the comparison is: at that time, nobody realised how dangerous it was until it was too late... the point is that the same may very well happen again. If you can't discern the relevance of this comparison (without necessarily agreeing with it), I cannot help you to deepen your understanding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
