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On October 11 2007 17:57 LosingID8 wrote:
a lot of people have the misconception that EVERYONE at TL play starcraft at a high level. thus, you (being anti-MBSers) claim that we're elitist and we want to be able to retain our skill from bw to sc2
however, this is definitely not the case for MANY TLers, including myself. i'll be the first to admit that i suck at starcraft. on abyss i was 5-4 D rank--not exactly what you would call "elite". but do i blame the interface for me sucking so badly? no, rather i know it's due to my lack of practice, my lack of hotkeys, and my lack of ability to multitask.
i enjoy a good game of starcraft, WITHOUT mbs. in fact, before i played starcraft i played AOE2, and MBS is implemented into that game. after i played starcraft for a while i realized just how much AOE2 sucks, and how ridiculously easy it is.
and i'm into the pro scene. why are the pros so impressive? because i know from first-hand experience that as they are doing these ridiculous micro moves with their armies, they are able to look away from the battle scene momentarily to continue their production cycles because they have such great knowledge about when it's appropriate to do so. to me and to most others, that's simply awe-inspiring. MBS would take away from that.
noobs should be able to have fun playing other noobs.
good players should be able to have fun playing other good players.
neither require MBS, and in fact have already been proven to be true with the SC:BW model.
I like what you have to say. Fun is the most important issue. 
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On October 09 2007 14:09 Aphelion wrote:
I wonder how many noobs are going to sign up just to vote in this.
Too many :<
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On October 11 2007 21:37 Equinox_kr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2007 14:09 Aphelion wrote:
I wonder how many noobs are going to sign up just to vote in this. Too many :<
already seems like a lot, cuz mbs selection was at about 15 the other day
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someone is seriously rigging the poll with a bot or something
cause mbs just went up about 70 in two hours during TLs least active time
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Sweden33719 Posts
On October 11 2007 13:33 randombum wrote:
I read all of the posts, but it seems to me that a lot of people are upset that other people can and out voted (well voted agaisnt) the general population of TL.net, but I would like to point out, how many times has TL.net banded together to rig other polls?
On, the otherhand I'm a bad player, and I would enjoy the luxory of not having to be super speed to micro and macro well at the same time. Or in otherwords I'm the noobish player (whom a lot of people on TL bash) who is not good enough to play like a pro without praticing like a pro, IE MBS will make me a lot better.
Then again, while thinking of MBS I'm applying it to SC:BW and War3, therefore my opinion on this is worthless having not played SCII yet. On War3 though, I personally had a lot of fun having shorter macro so I could micro my army and hero.
Wow, a pretty useless post, but this is a forum and I figured I would share my thoughts. (and this is bringing up my post count so you elitists (thats what many of you sound like, you guys use nice words like misimformed (or worse), but in the end it says the same thing; we are better than you therefore our opinion means more.) stop picking on people like me who have a rather low post count.)
There's a difference, somewhat, since this is a poll supposed to represent THIS community, unlike many others ("Greatest game of all time?" etc).
But it's still a good point.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
i am Anti-MBS and this pool is being manipulated for someone
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Poor tl.net, not safe against cheaters.
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On October 11 2007 13:33 randombum wrote:
I read all of the posts, but it seems to me that a lot of people are upset that other people can and out voted (well voted agaisnt) the general population of TL.net, but I would like to point out, how many times has TL.net banded together to rig other polls?
On, the otherhand I'm a bad player, and I would enjoy the luxory of not having to be super speed to micro and macro well at the same time. Or in otherwords I'm the noobish player (whom a lot of people on TL bash) who is not good enough to play like a pro without praticing like a pro, IE MBS will make me a lot better.
Then again, while thinking of MBS I'm applying it to SC:BW and War3, therefore my opinion on this is worthless having not played SCII yet. On War3 though, I personally had a lot of fun having shorter macro so I could micro my army and hero.
Wow, a pretty useless post, but this is a forum and I figured I would share my thoughts. (and this is bringing up my post count so you elitists (thats what many of you sound like, you guys use nice words like misimformed (or worse), but in the end it says the same thing; we are better than you therefore our opinion means more.) stop picking on people like me who have a rather low post count.)
No, this is not useless post. Your honest input leads me to conclude, just as orangedude has eloquently explained in his thread, that Blizzard will not ignore the casual crowd--that the solution is to appease both camps. The default solution is toggle, but for now, let's think of other solutions.
Both experts and novices will buy SC2 just for the franchise name alone, but for new initiates, the expectation is a modernized UI which includes MBS.
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On October 12 2007 02:33 Prose wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2007 13:33 randombum wrote:
I read all of the posts, but it seems to me that a lot of people are upset that other people can and out voted (well voted agaisnt) the general population of TL.net, but I would like to point out, how many times has TL.net banded together to rig other polls?
On, the otherhand I'm a bad player, and I would enjoy the luxory of not having to be super speed to micro and macro well at the same time. Or in otherwords I'm the noobish player (whom a lot of people on TL bash) who is not good enough to play like a pro without praticing like a pro, IE MBS will make me a lot better.
Then again, while thinking of MBS I'm applying it to SC:BW and War3, therefore my opinion on this is worthless having not played SCII yet. On War3 though, I personally had a lot of fun having shorter macro so I could micro my army and hero.
Wow, a pretty useless post, but this is a forum and I figured I would share my thoughts. (and this is bringing up my post count so you elitists (thats what many of you sound like, you guys use nice words like misimformed (or worse), but in the end it says the same thing; we are better than you therefore our opinion means more.) stop picking on people like me who have a rather low post count.) No, this is not useless post. Your honest input leads me to conclude, just as orangedude has eloquently explained in his thread, that Blizzard will not ignore the casual crowd--that the solution is to appease both camps. The default solution is toggle, but for now, let's think of other solutions. Both experts and novices will buy SC2 just for the franchise name alone, but for new initiates, the expectation is a modernized UI which includes MBS.
No. There's the problem: the UI is not like graphics or a piece of technology to be endlessly improved. It is a part of the game which must be balanced for optimum play. That balance is achieved without MBS.
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Canada7170 Posts
On October 11 2007 21:37 Equinox_kr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2007 14:09 Aphelion wrote:
I wonder how many noobs are going to sign up just to vote in this. Too many :<
You don't need an account to vote in polls, I'm pretty sure.
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CA10829 Posts
reading battle.net forums hurts my brain
there are a few decent posters in there, but most of them have no clue what they are talking about
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On October 11 2007 14:28 TheShizno wrote:
One problem with pushing the button tab to tab through the buildings is the addition of the alt to show unit hp function.
I am not sure what you mean, but if pressing alt reveals unit hp, then your selection mode changes to your unit. If you go back to by pressing hotkey for your buildings, your first highlighted building will have the least queue.
But I agree with Aphelion about MBS not being able to really be solved by button presses, because instead of only being able to select at most ten buildings in SC, with MBS you could have all of your buildings in one hotkey, ....
Aphelion mentioned more presses, but it does not involve more button presses. It stays the same as Brood War macro. For example, to make 3 zealots, 1 dragoon, 1 high templar:
5,z,6,z,7,z,8,d,9,t = ten button presses
5,z,tab,z,tab,z,tab,d,tab,t = ten button presses
In fact, you can still bind one building per hotkey if you wish, as in the first instance above (no tab would be needed). In which case, it is pure Brood War macro.
... and therefore you would never need to go back to your base except to add in buildings or change hotkeys.
Activating MBS forces you to go back to your base:
hotkey,holdhotkey,unit
By pressing 5 twice, your screen switches to your hotkeyed buildings, just as pressing twice on a hotkey centers your screen on your hotkeyed units.
To activate MBS, simply hold 5 on the second press while you press unit key.
5,hold5,z = to command all buildings to make zealots.
Your screen will center on each building for .25 seconds. If there are 8 gateways hotkeyed to 5, then this means a total of 2 seconds that you'll be at your base. Away from battlefield. If 4 gateways, then only 1 second. You can queue other commands, be it pressing 1 for your unit 1, or pressing another building group hotkey to mass-produce other units. Press hotkey 6 which has 8 more gateways, and that's another 2 seconds' worth. For a total of 4 seconds away from battlefield.
It's all explained in my post, but I'll repeat it:
* With two buttons, you can mass-produce one unit at an expert rate: four per second. In other words, the task of clicking on your buildings, one by one, to produce one unit, has been automated. Does this require you to leave your units, your attention turned elsewhere? Yes. Does this take time? Yes.
* Hotkey2x forces centering on hotkeyed buildings, away from the battlefield.
* Hotkey2x,hold,unit allows mass-building of unit.
* Cursor/selection/highlight cycles (the screen transitions smoothly, not abruptly) from building to building with subtle special effects (maybe a grotesque root-like adrenaline vein that branches from one hatchery to the next... or a phasing out/cloaking effect of one gateway to the next... or a Terran battle cry that varies according to the number of buildings bound to a hotkey: "Move it out, move it out, move it out! One, two, three, four, five, six, seven! Aaarrrrr, absolutely badassess! Let's pack 'em in! Get in there!" Apone, Aliens.)
* Naturally, the more buildings bound, the longer the cycle.
* You can queue in other commands while this cycle is happening, including pressing another hotkey to mass-build another unit from a different set of buildings.
I call this applying a scale factor to MBS. The more units involved, the longer your screen dances in your base as center of your screen slides from one building to the next.
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I believe he was bringing up the issue of alt+tab minimizing the screen which if the mbs was set to tab during a fight it would be very likely to hit alt tab since you are checking unit health while trying to macro.
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On October 11 2007 23:17 Highways wrote:
someone is seriously rigging the poll with a bot or something
cause mbs just went up about 70 in two hours during TLs least active time
Somewhat ironic, cuz that's what we do to other website's polls lulz
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Sweden33719 Posts
On October 12 2007 03:39 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2007 23:17 Highways wrote:
someone is seriously rigging the poll with a bot or something
cause mbs just went up about 70 in two hours during TLs least active time Somewhat ironic, cuz that's what we do to other website's polls lulz
Not with a bot (mostly not with a bot, I'm sure it's happened), and generally not in polls supposed to represent the opinion of members only..
But yeah, it's karma kind of 
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On October 12 2007 03:33 NotSorry wrote:
I believe he was bringing up the issue of alt+tab minimizing the screen which if the mbs was set to tab during a fight it would be very likely to hit alt tab since you are checking unit health while trying to macro.
Tab is in War3 as well as the alt function... Never been a problem there.
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On October 12 2007 04:54 SoleSteeler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2007 03:33 NotSorry wrote:
I believe he was bringing up the issue of alt+tab minimizing the screen which if the mbs was set to tab during a fight it would be very likely to hit alt tab since you are checking unit health while trying to macro. Tab is in War3 as well as the alt function... Never been a problem there. I'll admit, I've personally had issues with it when playing war3 in a highly micro battle I've alt+tabbed dozens of times and lost because of it.
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On October 09 2007 20:28 EpiK wrote:
no mbs. This is exactly what will ruin sc2 for the real sc fans.
x2
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its kind of nice actually. even with people attempting to flood the pro-mbs side (with or without a bot) no mbs is still winning.
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this poll is getting ridiculous, both sides are spamming now.
there is no reason for this poll any more
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EPT
