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On December 06 2018 04:32 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 03:14 Plansix wrote: Kushner exists and could very likely be 3. His family is massively in debt and he has been trying to get loans from folks in the Middle East for years. My bet is Flynn knows about something about all the talks Kushner has with folks in Saudi Arabia. That would be well outside Mueller purview. See: multi-billion dollar investment in Kushner's failed NYC skyscraper from a Qatar linked investment fund. At the same time as Kushner was pretty much in charge of Qatar and Saudi Arabia related foreign policy, and was very much on the side of Saudi Arabia as it led a blockade of Qatar. And Kushner had attempted negotiations with Qatar after the election to try to get an investment in teh same building, and they turned him down. Curious if the above is of concern to Danglars and xDaunt? Not really. Shit happens in business for a lot of reasons. And to the extent that there's something there that needs looking into, I don't see Flynn as a viable source. He simply doesn't have the history with Kushner to have the factual foundation to provide anything of use to Mueller on such an investigation. For this reason, among others, I highly doubt that Investigation 1 concerns potential criminal charges against Trump or his people. Flynn has a substantial career that long predates his involvement with Trump. As just an example, he was at the DIA under Obama. Investigation 1 could concern his experience there. We really don't know.
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On December 06 2018 05:18 Danglars wrote:The American left might be turning on Obama-era Title IX changes to sexual assault investigations on campus. Show nested quote +Education Secretary Betsy DeVos’s proposed regulations overhauling how colleges handle sexual assault, which may become law in January, are far from perfect. But there is a big reason to support them: I’m a feminist and a Democrat, and as a lawyer I have seen the troubling racial dynamics at play under the current Title IX system and the lack of due process for the accused. Ms. DeVos’s proposals take important steps to fix these problems.
Consider this scenario: A young black man enrolls at a state university in California on an athletic scholarship. He’s the first person in his family to go to college. His teammate’s white ex-girlfriend matches with him on Tinder, comes to his apartment, has sex with him and, they both agree, returns three days later to have consensual sex.
Weeks later, the young woman, who has reconciled with her boyfriend, claims the Tinder match raped her during the first sexual encounter. The Tinder Match adamantly denies this. Her boyfriend, who is also black, says she is lying. There is no hearing, no chance for the accused to ask her questions.
But the Title IX investigator concludes that he committed sexual assault by finding her more credible than him under the preponderance-of-the-evidence standard, under which the accuser must prove there is a greater than 50 percent chance her claim is true. He’s one of a few black students on campus and worries he may get killed after word spreads.
[Discover the most compelling features, reporting and humor writing from The New York Times Opinion section, selected by our editors. Sign up for the Sunday Best newsletter.]
This happened in early 2018 to a client in the pro bono clinic I direct with my law students. We represent low-income students of color in California who face expulsion based on allegations of sexual assault.
We see what the Harvard Law School professor Janet Halley described in a 2015 law review article: “The general social disadvantage that black men continue to carry in our culture can make it easier for everyone in the adjudicative process to put the blame on them.” That’s why the DeVos regulations are a step forward.
Here is how they would work. Cross-examination would be conducted by an adviser for the accused (not, as some coverage has erroneously said, by the accused.) The accuser may sit in a separate room or participate via videoconference. The right to cross-examine goes both ways: The accused must also answer questions posed by the accuser’s adviser.
The changes would also do away with the problematic “single investigator system” where the person who interviews the witnesses and gathers the facts also serves as the judge and jury — a method the California State University System uses for its 485,000 students across 23 campuses.
Editors’ Picks
Justin Trudeau’s Official Home: Unfit for a Leader or Anyone Else
Cancer Pushes New York’s ‘First Girlfriend,’ Sandra Lee, Onto Political Stage
Tonya Harding Would Like Her Apology Now The revisions are in line with court decisions that have characterized the current system as unfair. In August, the Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, ruling in a case from Michigan, declared that if a public university adjudicates what is essentially a “he said, she said” case, “the university must give the accused student or his agent an opportunity to cross-examine the accuser and adverse witnesses in the presence of a neutral fact-finder.” This year, two California appellate courts have overturned university decisions to suspend students for committing sexual assault because their procedures were so lacking in basic due process.
Meanwhile, my client has been barred from campus for more than nine months. (His suspension was based on this allegation and a second allegation by another accuser, which was found to be unsubstantiated by the evidence; that accuser is appealing.) The DeVos regulations and the two California appellate rulings are most likely his only hope of avoiding an expulsion that would tar him as a campus sex offender and most likely prevent him from getting into another school.
The current system of adjudicating sexual assault complaints is broken. Under the rules set up by the Obama administration, hundreds of colleges, including many in California, were placed under federal investigation and threatened with the loss of funding for failing to adequately investigate sexual assault complaints. The definition of what constituted an assault was vastly expanded. Nonpunitive resolutions such as mediation were forbidden, even if that is what both sides wanted.
The Obama rules were written to address a real problem: a tendency by colleges to sweep sexual assault allegations under the rug. But it also gave risk-averse schools incentives to expel the accused without any reliable fact-finding process.
The Office of Civil Rights does not collect data on race in Title IX cases, but the little we know is disturbing: An analysis of assault accusations at Colgate, for example, found that while only 4.2 percent of the college’s students were black in the 2012-13 school year, 50 percent of the sexual-violation accusations reported to the school were against black students, and blacks made up 40 percent of the students who went through the formal disciplinary process.
We have long over-sexualized, over-criminalized and disproportionately punished black men. It should come as no surprise that, in a setting in which protections for the accused are greatly diminished, this shameful legacy persists.
“I’ve assisted multiple men of color, a Dreamer, a homeless man and two trans students,” Professor Halley told me. “How can the left care about these people when the frame is mass incarceration, immigration or trans-positivity and actively reject fairness protections for them under Title IX?”
We can fix this. The DeVos reforms are in their public comment period, which gives people on all sides of this debate a chance to weigh in. That is a good thing. I know my allies on the left will criticize my position, but we cannot allow our political divisions to blind us to the fact that we are taking away students’ ability to get an education without a semblance of due process. What kind of lesson is that? NYTA return of due process considerations and more rights afforded to the accused is a good start. This feminist Democrat is willing to speak the truth about current reforms, regardless of her overall opinion about Betsy DeVos. California State College investigative systems, and a host of publicized abuses within them, will be impacted by these reforms.
Reforms were/are necessary but the process is still clearly flawed. Can't imagine "due process" will do anything about the rate at which Black students are accused, processed, or disproportionately punished though. If they figure that part out they should tell the judicial system and the police so they can get their shit together.
From what I read (outside of the oped) there's a lot of shitty changes Devos is tagging along with it so she's still presenting as the totally incompetent shill she has since she was nominated.
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On December 06 2018 06:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 04:32 Doodsmack wrote:On December 06 2018 03:14 Plansix wrote: Kushner exists and could very likely be 3. His family is massively in debt and he has been trying to get loans from folks in the Middle East for years. My bet is Flynn knows about something about all the talks Kushner has with folks in Saudi Arabia. That would be well outside Mueller purview. See: multi-billion dollar investment in Kushner's failed NYC skyscraper from a Qatar linked investment fund. At the same time as Kushner was pretty much in charge of Qatar and Saudi Arabia related foreign policy, and was very much on the side of Saudi Arabia as it led a blockade of Qatar. And Kushner had attempted negotiations with Qatar after the election to try to get an investment in teh same building, and they turned him down. Curious if the above is of concern to Danglars and xDaunt? Not really. Shit happens in business for a lot of reasons. And to the extent that there's something there that needs looking into, I don't see Flynn as a viable source. He simply doesn't have the history with Kushner to have the factual foundation to provide anything of use to Mueller on such an investigation. For this reason, among others, I highly doubt that Investigation 1 concerns potential criminal charges against Trump or his people. Flynn has a substantial career that long predates his involvement with Trump. As just an example, he was at the DIA under Obama. Investigation 1 could concern his experience there. We really don't know.
I see no reason to believe that the sequence of events surrounding uranium one (Russia pays bill for a speech followed by uranium one approval by state dept) is stronger evidence of corruption than the sequence of events surrounding Kushner's skyscraper. It's a sequence that raises the specter of a conflict of interest. You could search for a distinction in "shit happens in business" but you still have a potential conflict of interest. I could say the distinction on uranium one is that many agencies approved of the deal, and that's a complex process involving a lot of variables. The only real reason to distinguish uranium one is partisan bias.
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On December 06 2018 07:01 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 06:23 xDaunt wrote:On December 06 2018 04:32 Doodsmack wrote:On December 06 2018 03:14 Plansix wrote: Kushner exists and could very likely be 3. His family is massively in debt and he has been trying to get loans from folks in the Middle East for years. My bet is Flynn knows about something about all the talks Kushner has with folks in Saudi Arabia. That would be well outside Mueller purview. See: multi-billion dollar investment in Kushner's failed NYC skyscraper from a Qatar linked investment fund. At the same time as Kushner was pretty much in charge of Qatar and Saudi Arabia related foreign policy, and was very much on the side of Saudi Arabia as it led a blockade of Qatar. And Kushner had attempted negotiations with Qatar after the election to try to get an investment in teh same building, and they turned him down. Curious if the above is of concern to Danglars and xDaunt? Not really. Shit happens in business for a lot of reasons. And to the extent that there's something there that needs looking into, I don't see Flynn as a viable source. He simply doesn't have the history with Kushner to have the factual foundation to provide anything of use to Mueller on such an investigation. For this reason, among others, I highly doubt that Investigation 1 concerns potential criminal charges against Trump or his people. Flynn has a substantial career that long predates his involvement with Trump. As just an example, he was at the DIA under Obama. Investigation 1 could concern his experience there. We really don't know. I see no reason to believe that the sequence of events surrounding uranium one (Russia pays bill for a speech followed by uranium one approval by state dept) is stronger evidence of corruption than the sequence of events surrounding Kushner's skyscraper. It's a sequence that raises the specter of a conflict of interest. You could search for a distinction in "shit happens in business" but you still have a potential conflict of interest. I could say the distinction on uranium one is that many agencies approved of the deal, and that's a complex process involving a lot of variables. The only real reason to distinguish uranium one is partisan bias.
Uranium 1 involved many government officials. I'm not that familiar with Kushner's skyscraper deal or the timing of what happened, but I doubt that it was anywhere near the same level as Uranium 1.
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On December 06 2018 07:09 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 07:01 Doodsmack wrote:On December 06 2018 06:23 xDaunt wrote:On December 06 2018 04:32 Doodsmack wrote:On December 06 2018 03:14 Plansix wrote: Kushner exists and could very likely be 3. His family is massively in debt and he has been trying to get loans from folks in the Middle East for years. My bet is Flynn knows about something about all the talks Kushner has with folks in Saudi Arabia. That would be well outside Mueller purview. See: multi-billion dollar investment in Kushner's failed NYC skyscraper from a Qatar linked investment fund. At the same time as Kushner was pretty much in charge of Qatar and Saudi Arabia related foreign policy, and was very much on the side of Saudi Arabia as it led a blockade of Qatar. And Kushner had attempted negotiations with Qatar after the election to try to get an investment in teh same building, and they turned him down. Curious if the above is of concern to Danglars and xDaunt? Not really. Shit happens in business for a lot of reasons. And to the extent that there's something there that needs looking into, I don't see Flynn as a viable source. He simply doesn't have the history with Kushner to have the factual foundation to provide anything of use to Mueller on such an investigation. For this reason, among others, I highly doubt that Investigation 1 concerns potential criminal charges against Trump or his people. Flynn has a substantial career that long predates his involvement with Trump. As just an example, he was at the DIA under Obama. Investigation 1 could concern his experience there. We really don't know. I see no reason to believe that the sequence of events surrounding uranium one (Russia pays bill for a speech followed by uranium one approval by state dept) is stronger evidence of corruption than the sequence of events surrounding Kushner's skyscraper. It's a sequence that raises the specter of a conflict of interest. You could search for a distinction in "shit happens in business" but you still have a potential conflict of interest. I could say the distinction on uranium one is that many agencies approved of the deal, and that's a complex process involving a lot of variables. The only real reason to distinguish uranium one is partisan bias. Uranium 1 involved many government officials. I'm not that familiar with Kushner's skyscraper deal or the timing of what happened, but I doubt that it was anywhere near the same level as Uranium 1.
I know you like to lean on what has been legally proven (except for things like Uranium 1) but you don't actually think Trump doesn't or at least wouldn't prioritize his own wealth over national security do you?
If you do I have to ask what gives you that impression? There's plenty I disagree with you on but can at least see how you arrive at your conclusion, this one bewilders me a bit.
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On December 06 2018 07:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 07:09 xDaunt wrote:On December 06 2018 07:01 Doodsmack wrote:On December 06 2018 06:23 xDaunt wrote:On December 06 2018 04:32 Doodsmack wrote:On December 06 2018 03:14 Plansix wrote: Kushner exists and could very likely be 3. His family is massively in debt and he has been trying to get loans from folks in the Middle East for years. My bet is Flynn knows about something about all the talks Kushner has with folks in Saudi Arabia. That would be well outside Mueller purview. See: multi-billion dollar investment in Kushner's failed NYC skyscraper from a Qatar linked investment fund. At the same time as Kushner was pretty much in charge of Qatar and Saudi Arabia related foreign policy, and was very much on the side of Saudi Arabia as it led a blockade of Qatar. And Kushner had attempted negotiations with Qatar after the election to try to get an investment in teh same building, and they turned him down. Curious if the above is of concern to Danglars and xDaunt? Not really. Shit happens in business for a lot of reasons. And to the extent that there's something there that needs looking into, I don't see Flynn as a viable source. He simply doesn't have the history with Kushner to have the factual foundation to provide anything of use to Mueller on such an investigation. For this reason, among others, I highly doubt that Investigation 1 concerns potential criminal charges against Trump or his people. Flynn has a substantial career that long predates his involvement with Trump. As just an example, he was at the DIA under Obama. Investigation 1 could concern his experience there. We really don't know. I see no reason to believe that the sequence of events surrounding uranium one (Russia pays bill for a speech followed by uranium one approval by state dept) is stronger evidence of corruption than the sequence of events surrounding Kushner's skyscraper. It's a sequence that raises the specter of a conflict of interest. You could search for a distinction in "shit happens in business" but you still have a potential conflict of interest. I could say the distinction on uranium one is that many agencies approved of the deal, and that's a complex process involving a lot of variables. The only real reason to distinguish uranium one is partisan bias. Uranium 1 involved many government officials. I'm not that familiar with Kushner's skyscraper deal or the timing of what happened, but I doubt that it was anywhere near the same level as Uranium 1. I know you like to lean on what has been legally proven (except for things like Uranium 1) but you don't actually think Trump doesn't or at least wouldn't prioritize his own wealth over national security do you? If you do I have to ask what gives you that impression? There's plenty I disagree with you on but can at least see how you arrive at your conclusion, this one bewilders me a bit. I'm not presuming anything with Uranium 1 that I would not with Kushner's skyscraper deal. I'm merely pointing out that each deal is too dissimilar structurally and with regards to who was involved to even be remotely comparable. As for Trump, I haven't seen any real evidence that he has sacrificed national security for his own personal wealth.
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On December 06 2018 07:22 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 07:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 06 2018 07:09 xDaunt wrote:On December 06 2018 07:01 Doodsmack wrote:On December 06 2018 06:23 xDaunt wrote:On December 06 2018 04:32 Doodsmack wrote:On December 06 2018 03:14 Plansix wrote: Kushner exists and could very likely be 3. His family is massively in debt and he has been trying to get loans from folks in the Middle East for years. My bet is Flynn knows about something about all the talks Kushner has with folks in Saudi Arabia. That would be well outside Mueller purview. See: multi-billion dollar investment in Kushner's failed NYC skyscraper from a Qatar linked investment fund. At the same time as Kushner was pretty much in charge of Qatar and Saudi Arabia related foreign policy, and was very much on the side of Saudi Arabia as it led a blockade of Qatar. And Kushner had attempted negotiations with Qatar after the election to try to get an investment in teh same building, and they turned him down. Curious if the above is of concern to Danglars and xDaunt? Not really. Shit happens in business for a lot of reasons. And to the extent that there's something there that needs looking into, I don't see Flynn as a viable source. He simply doesn't have the history with Kushner to have the factual foundation to provide anything of use to Mueller on such an investigation. For this reason, among others, I highly doubt that Investigation 1 concerns potential criminal charges against Trump or his people. Flynn has a substantial career that long predates his involvement with Trump. As just an example, he was at the DIA under Obama. Investigation 1 could concern his experience there. We really don't know. I see no reason to believe that the sequence of events surrounding uranium one (Russia pays bill for a speech followed by uranium one approval by state dept) is stronger evidence of corruption than the sequence of events surrounding Kushner's skyscraper. It's a sequence that raises the specter of a conflict of interest. You could search for a distinction in "shit happens in business" but you still have a potential conflict of interest. I could say the distinction on uranium one is that many agencies approved of the deal, and that's a complex process involving a lot of variables. The only real reason to distinguish uranium one is partisan bias. Uranium 1 involved many government officials. I'm not that familiar with Kushner's skyscraper deal or the timing of what happened, but I doubt that it was anywhere near the same level as Uranium 1. I know you like to lean on what has been legally proven (except for things like Uranium 1) but you don't actually think Trump doesn't or at least wouldn't prioritize his own wealth over national security do you? If you do I have to ask what gives you that impression? There's plenty I disagree with you on but can at least see how you arrive at your conclusion, this one bewilders me a bit. I'm not presuming anything with Uranium 1 that I would not with Kushner's skyscraper deal. I'm merely pointing out that each deal is too dissimilar structurally and with regards to who was involved to even be remotely comparable. As for Trump, I haven't seen any real evidence that he has sacrificed national security for his own personal wealth.
So you think he hasn't/wouldn't or is "I have seen no 'real' evidence" is as far as you're willing to go?
______________________________________________________________________________________
Trump's thank you at the end had a very strange inflection to it. Good speech on US imperialism delivered at the UN to Trumps face.
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Oh look, Morales is pointing out the obvious. The US acts in its own rational self-interest instead of some misplaced sense of idealism.
And of course Morales's big ask at the end of his diatribe is for a multi-polar world -- because that is in his country's best interest.
EDIT: And GH, if you're going to make some asinine charge or insinuation of corruption, feel free to make the case.
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On December 06 2018 07:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 05:18 Danglars wrote:The American left might be turning on Obama-era Title IX changes to sexual assault investigations on campus. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos’s proposed regulations overhauling how colleges handle sexual assault, which may become law in January, are far from perfect. But there is a big reason to support them: I’m a feminist and a Democrat, and as a lawyer I have seen the troubling racial dynamics at play under the current Title IX system and the lack of due process for the accused. Ms. DeVos’s proposals take important steps to fix these problems.
Consider this scenario: A young black man enrolls at a state university in California on an athletic scholarship. He’s the first person in his family to go to college. His teammate’s white ex-girlfriend matches with him on Tinder, comes to his apartment, has sex with him and, they both agree, returns three days later to have consensual sex.
Weeks later, the young woman, who has reconciled with her boyfriend, claims the Tinder match raped her during the first sexual encounter. The Tinder Match adamantly denies this. Her boyfriend, who is also black, says she is lying. There is no hearing, no chance for the accused to ask her questions.
But the Title IX investigator concludes that he committed sexual assault by finding her more credible than him under the preponderance-of-the-evidence standard, under which the accuser must prove there is a greater than 50 percent chance her claim is true. He’s one of a few black students on campus and worries he may get killed after word spreads.
[Discover the most compelling features, reporting and humor writing from The New York Times Opinion section, selected by our editors. Sign up for the Sunday Best newsletter.]
This happened in early 2018 to a client in the pro bono clinic I direct with my law students. We represent low-income students of color in California who face expulsion based on allegations of sexual assault.
We see what the Harvard Law School professor Janet Halley described in a 2015 law review article: “The general social disadvantage that black men continue to carry in our culture can make it easier for everyone in the adjudicative process to put the blame on them.” That’s why the DeVos regulations are a step forward.
Here is how they would work. Cross-examination would be conducted by an adviser for the accused (not, as some coverage has erroneously said, by the accused.) The accuser may sit in a separate room or participate via videoconference. The right to cross-examine goes both ways: The accused must also answer questions posed by the accuser’s adviser.
The changes would also do away with the problematic “single investigator system” where the person who interviews the witnesses and gathers the facts also serves as the judge and jury — a method the California State University System uses for its 485,000 students across 23 campuses.
Editors’ Picks
Justin Trudeau’s Official Home: Unfit for a Leader or Anyone Else
Cancer Pushes New York’s ‘First Girlfriend,’ Sandra Lee, Onto Political Stage
Tonya Harding Would Like Her Apology Now The revisions are in line with court decisions that have characterized the current system as unfair. In August, the Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, ruling in a case from Michigan, declared that if a public university adjudicates what is essentially a “he said, she said” case, “the university must give the accused student or his agent an opportunity to cross-examine the accuser and adverse witnesses in the presence of a neutral fact-finder.” This year, two California appellate courts have overturned university decisions to suspend students for committing sexual assault because their procedures were so lacking in basic due process.
Meanwhile, my client has been barred from campus for more than nine months. (His suspension was based on this allegation and a second allegation by another accuser, which was found to be unsubstantiated by the evidence; that accuser is appealing.) The DeVos regulations and the two California appellate rulings are most likely his only hope of avoiding an expulsion that would tar him as a campus sex offender and most likely prevent him from getting into another school.
The current system of adjudicating sexual assault complaints is broken. Under the rules set up by the Obama administration, hundreds of colleges, including many in California, were placed under federal investigation and threatened with the loss of funding for failing to adequately investigate sexual assault complaints. The definition of what constituted an assault was vastly expanded. Nonpunitive resolutions such as mediation were forbidden, even if that is what both sides wanted.
The Obama rules were written to address a real problem: a tendency by colleges to sweep sexual assault allegations under the rug. But it also gave risk-averse schools incentives to expel the accused without any reliable fact-finding process.
The Office of Civil Rights does not collect data on race in Title IX cases, but the little we know is disturbing: An analysis of assault accusations at Colgate, for example, found that while only 4.2 percent of the college’s students were black in the 2012-13 school year, 50 percent of the sexual-violation accusations reported to the school were against black students, and blacks made up 40 percent of the students who went through the formal disciplinary process.
We have long over-sexualized, over-criminalized and disproportionately punished black men. It should come as no surprise that, in a setting in which protections for the accused are greatly diminished, this shameful legacy persists.
“I’ve assisted multiple men of color, a Dreamer, a homeless man and two trans students,” Professor Halley told me. “How can the left care about these people when the frame is mass incarceration, immigration or trans-positivity and actively reject fairness protections for them under Title IX?”
We can fix this. The DeVos reforms are in their public comment period, which gives people on all sides of this debate a chance to weigh in. That is a good thing. I know my allies on the left will criticize my position, but we cannot allow our political divisions to blind us to the fact that we are taking away students’ ability to get an education without a semblance of due process. What kind of lesson is that? NYTA return of due process considerations and more rights afforded to the accused is a good start. This feminist Democrat is willing to speak the truth about current reforms, regardless of her overall opinion about Betsy DeVos. California State College investigative systems, and a host of publicized abuses within them, will be impacted by these reforms. Reforms were/are necessary but the process is still clearly flawed. Can't imagine "due process" will do anything about the rate at which Black students are accused, processed, or disproportionately punished though. If they figure that part out they should tell the judicial system and the police so they can get their shit together. From what I read (outside of the oped) there's a lot of shitty changes Devos is tagging along with it so she's still presenting as the totally incompetent shill she has since she was nominated. I’m still caught up by the idea that the left is inline with the NYT Editoral team. The relationship would be characterized as pure animosity by anyone who pays attention.
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On December 06 2018 07:48 xDaunt wrote: Oh look, Morales is pointing out the obvious. The US acts in its own rational self-interest instead of some misplaced sense of idealism.
And of course Morales's big ask at the end of his diatribe is for a multi-polar world -- because that is in his country's best interest.
EDIT: And GH, if you're going to make some asinine charge or insinuation of corruption, feel free to make the case.
It would behoove the US to not rhetorically dress up it's naked imperialism as democratic empowerment of oppressed people then.
As for Trump we know he's making money off of stuff as absurd as charging the secret service to protect him and his family by way of golf carts, space at Trump tower, and so on. So to me when I saw some rapid growth of Trump's businesses and profit margins at places like Mar-a-Lago I think "yeah, sure. That guy is loyal only to himself and maybe his family, given the ultimatum between saving himself and his fortune and fleeing to China or some shit or losing everything protecting the country Trump has never once in his life given any indication he would choose the country."
With that in mind, presented with less dramatic circumstances like trading away some national interest for personal interest I have a hard time imagining what about his behavior would lead you or any other thinking person to the conclusion that Trump cares more about some esoteric idea of a nation than he does himself (and maybe his family). I was just curious if you believe he hasn't/wouldn't or if you were staying at the point of "you hadn't seen any real evidence". Leaving ambiguous whether you believe he is or may have a propensity for such
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Who gives a shit if Trump is staying at his own resort and charging necessary government personnel to stay there, too? Presidents and their families go on vacations. They stay at resorts and hotels. Who do you think goes with them? That's right: the Secret Service. Do you think that those other resorts and hotels give the Secret Service a free ride? Fuck no!
When Trump starts selling out the US for his own personal gain (or for other nefarious reasons), then we can talk. Until then, don't waste people's time with frivolous nonsense.
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you know dude youve brought up uranium one so much recently that i just tried to read through the wiki article on it, but i gave up trying to understand why you think its so significant in comparison to trump
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On December 06 2018 07:09 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 07:01 Doodsmack wrote:On December 06 2018 06:23 xDaunt wrote:On December 06 2018 04:32 Doodsmack wrote:On December 06 2018 03:14 Plansix wrote: Kushner exists and could very likely be 3. His family is massively in debt and he has been trying to get loans from folks in the Middle East for years. My bet is Flynn knows about something about all the talks Kushner has with folks in Saudi Arabia. That would be well outside Mueller purview. See: multi-billion dollar investment in Kushner's failed NYC skyscraper from a Qatar linked investment fund. At the same time as Kushner was pretty much in charge of Qatar and Saudi Arabia related foreign policy, and was very much on the side of Saudi Arabia as it led a blockade of Qatar. And Kushner had attempted negotiations with Qatar after the election to try to get an investment in teh same building, and they turned him down. Curious if the above is of concern to Danglars and xDaunt? Not really. Shit happens in business for a lot of reasons. And to the extent that there's something there that needs looking into, I don't see Flynn as a viable source. He simply doesn't have the history with Kushner to have the factual foundation to provide anything of use to Mueller on such an investigation. For this reason, among others, I highly doubt that Investigation 1 concerns potential criminal charges against Trump or his people. Flynn has a substantial career that long predates his involvement with Trump. As just an example, he was at the DIA under Obama. Investigation 1 could concern his experience there. We really don't know. I see no reason to believe that the sequence of events surrounding uranium one (Russia pays bill for a speech followed by uranium one approval by state dept) is stronger evidence of corruption than the sequence of events surrounding Kushner's skyscraper. It's a sequence that raises the specter of a conflict of interest. You could search for a distinction in "shit happens in business" but you still have a potential conflict of interest. I could say the distinction on uranium one is that many agencies approved of the deal, and that's a complex process involving a lot of variables. The only real reason to distinguish uranium one is partisan bias. Uranium 1 involved many government officials. I'm not that familiar with Kushner's skyscraper deal or the timing of what happened, but I doubt that it was anywhere near the same level as Uranium 1.
Right, many government officials, as opposed to just one where the chance of corruption would be greater. The evidence that uranium 1 involved corruption is merely the sequence of events- first bill received money from Russia, then uranium 1 was approved. The same sequence of events-based inference is applicable in these situations:
- Kushner treatment of Qatar followed by Qatari investment in his failed property for which he had long been seeking Qatari investment.
- China approves trump trademarks followed soon thereafter by trump abandoning his threat to reverse the one China policy.
- China invests $500M in trump hotel in Indonesia followed by trump lifting sanctions on a Chinese telecom giant as Xi Jinping had requested.
- Saudi Arabia invests $100M in a charity run by Ivanka at the same time as trumps visit to SA (careful about making an argument that donations to a charity cant be corrupt).
These sequences of events are just the facts.
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On December 06 2018 07:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 05:18 Danglars wrote:The American left might be turning on Obama-era Title IX changes to sexual assault investigations on campus. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos’s proposed regulations overhauling how colleges handle sexual assault, which may become law in January, are far from perfect. But there is a big reason to support them: I’m a feminist and a Democrat, and as a lawyer I have seen the troubling racial dynamics at play under the current Title IX system and the lack of due process for the accused. Ms. DeVos’s proposals take important steps to fix these problems.
Consider this scenario: A young black man enrolls at a state university in California on an athletic scholarship. He’s the first person in his family to go to college. His teammate’s white ex-girlfriend matches with him on Tinder, comes to his apartment, has sex with him and, they both agree, returns three days later to have consensual sex.
Weeks later, the young woman, who has reconciled with her boyfriend, claims the Tinder match raped her during the first sexual encounter. The Tinder Match adamantly denies this. Her boyfriend, who is also black, says she is lying. There is no hearing, no chance for the accused to ask her questions.
But the Title IX investigator concludes that he committed sexual assault by finding her more credible than him under the preponderance-of-the-evidence standard, under which the accuser must prove there is a greater than 50 percent chance her claim is true. He’s one of a few black students on campus and worries he may get killed after word spreads.
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This happened in early 2018 to a client in the pro bono clinic I direct with my law students. We represent low-income students of color in California who face expulsion based on allegations of sexual assault.
We see what the Harvard Law School professor Janet Halley described in a 2015 law review article: “The general social disadvantage that black men continue to carry in our culture can make it easier for everyone in the adjudicative process to put the blame on them.” That’s why the DeVos regulations are a step forward.
Here is how they would work. Cross-examination would be conducted by an adviser for the accused (not, as some coverage has erroneously said, by the accused.) The accuser may sit in a separate room or participate via videoconference. The right to cross-examine goes both ways: The accused must also answer questions posed by the accuser’s adviser.
The changes would also do away with the problematic “single investigator system” where the person who interviews the witnesses and gathers the facts also serves as the judge and jury — a method the California State University System uses for its 485,000 students across 23 campuses.
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Tonya Harding Would Like Her Apology Now The revisions are in line with court decisions that have characterized the current system as unfair. In August, the Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, ruling in a case from Michigan, declared that if a public university adjudicates what is essentially a “he said, she said” case, “the university must give the accused student or his agent an opportunity to cross-examine the accuser and adverse witnesses in the presence of a neutral fact-finder.” This year, two California appellate courts have overturned university decisions to suspend students for committing sexual assault because their procedures were so lacking in basic due process.
Meanwhile, my client has been barred from campus for more than nine months. (His suspension was based on this allegation and a second allegation by another accuser, which was found to be unsubstantiated by the evidence; that accuser is appealing.) The DeVos regulations and the two California appellate rulings are most likely his only hope of avoiding an expulsion that would tar him as a campus sex offender and most likely prevent him from getting into another school.
The current system of adjudicating sexual assault complaints is broken. Under the rules set up by the Obama administration, hundreds of colleges, including many in California, were placed under federal investigation and threatened with the loss of funding for failing to adequately investigate sexual assault complaints. The definition of what constituted an assault was vastly expanded. Nonpunitive resolutions such as mediation were forbidden, even if that is what both sides wanted.
The Obama rules were written to address a real problem: a tendency by colleges to sweep sexual assault allegations under the rug. But it also gave risk-averse schools incentives to expel the accused without any reliable fact-finding process.
The Office of Civil Rights does not collect data on race in Title IX cases, but the little we know is disturbing: An analysis of assault accusations at Colgate, for example, found that while only 4.2 percent of the college’s students were black in the 2012-13 school year, 50 percent of the sexual-violation accusations reported to the school were against black students, and blacks made up 40 percent of the students who went through the formal disciplinary process.
We have long over-sexualized, over-criminalized and disproportionately punished black men. It should come as no surprise that, in a setting in which protections for the accused are greatly diminished, this shameful legacy persists.
“I’ve assisted multiple men of color, a Dreamer, a homeless man and two trans students,” Professor Halley told me. “How can the left care about these people when the frame is mass incarceration, immigration or trans-positivity and actively reject fairness protections for them under Title IX?”
We can fix this. The DeVos reforms are in their public comment period, which gives people on all sides of this debate a chance to weigh in. That is a good thing. I know my allies on the left will criticize my position, but we cannot allow our political divisions to blind us to the fact that we are taking away students’ ability to get an education without a semblance of due process. What kind of lesson is that? NYTA return of due process considerations and more rights afforded to the accused is a good start. This feminist Democrat is willing to speak the truth about current reforms, regardless of her overall opinion about Betsy DeVos. California State College investigative systems, and a host of publicized abuses within them, will be impacted by these reforms. Reforms were/are necessary but the process is still clearly flawed. Can't imagine "due process" will do anything about the rate at which Black students are accused, processed, or disproportionately punished though. If they figure that part out they should tell the judicial system and the police so they can get their shit together. From what I read (outside of the oped) there's a lot of shitty changes Devos is tagging along with it so she's still presenting as the totally incompetent shill she has since she was nominated. It really is in the article. Black students were disproportionately affected by the policy, particularly black men accused of sexual assault by white women. They had a whole article on it in the Atlantic last year.
The Question of Race in Campus Sexual-Assault Cases Is the system biased against men of color?
Since there are no national statistics on how many young men of any given race are the subject of campus-sexual-assault complaints, we are left with anecdotes about men of color being accused and punished. There are many such anecdotes. In 2015, in The New Yorker, Jeannie Suk Gersen, a Harvard Law School professor, wrote that in general, the administrators and faculty members she’d spoken with who “routinely work on sexual-misconduct cases” said that “most of the complaints they see are against minorities.” For two years I have received a daily Google Alert on college sexual assault. It captures only those cases that make it into the news, and is not a comprehensive or statistically valid measure. But it is illuminating. Usually the reports don’t disclose race, but sometimes it is mentioned, and if the accused is named, it’s often possible to determine his race through photo searches or other online information. Black men make up only about 6 percent of college undergraduates. They are vastly overrepresented in the cases I’ve tracked. [...]
In several recent civil lawsuits against their schools, male students found responsible in campus tribunals for sexual misconduct have made the racial aspects of their experience explicit. These include cases involving Amherst College, in Massachusetts (which recently settled for undisclosed terms); Butler University, in Indiana; Drexel University, in Pennsylvania; Indiana University of Pennsylvania; Swarthmore College, in Pennsylvania; the University of Findlay, in Ohio; the University of Pennsylvania; and William Paterson University, in New Jersey. Each suit says a student or students were subject to specious charges and in some cases abrupt expulsions because they were minorities.
In the University of Findlay case, Justin Browning and Alphonso Baity II, two black athletes, each had a separate sexual encounter with a white female student one Saturday night in September 2014. According to their federal suit, the encounters were consensual and the female student spent the night with Browning and bragged about it afterward to her friends. But a week and a half later, on a Wednesday, she filed a written complaint of sexual assault. That Friday, the two young men were expelled. The school then issued a campus-wide alert announcing their expulsion, and their names and photos were printed in the local paper. Findlay’s president, Katherine Fell, said that the university had dealt with “a serious incident of sexual assault on our campus, and we’ve done it with compassion, thorough research and effectiveness.”
Browning and Baity’s suit says that the university’s probe and disciplinary proceedings were a “sham” and that its actions were “motivated by race.” The suit notes that fewer than 2 percent of Findlay’s students are black men and that the only other student expelled in the prior two years for sexual misconduct was a black man accused of sexually assaulting a white woman. To date, Browning and Baity have been unable to resume their education at a four-year school. The university said in a statement that it conducted its investigation and appeal process “with integrity and fairness” and “will vigorously defend the process and our decision.” In a court filing, the university denied the allegations in the suit; the case is ongoing.
In November 2014, five 18-year-old black male freshmen at William Paterson University were arrested for allegedly holding a female student in a room and forcing her to perform sexual acts. In their suit, two of the students, Garrett Collick and Noah Williams, say they had consensual sex with the woman on the night in question—Collick says she initiated it with him—and that she had initiated sex with each of them on at least one previous occasion. Right after the arrests, the president of the university, Kathleen Waldron, released a statement in which she said, “I am angry and dismayed that this crime was committed on our campus and allegedly by students. My deepest concern is for the victim of this criminal act who has courageously stepped forward to take legal action and seek justice.” Collick and Williams were jailed for nine days. Ultimately, a grand jury, which decides whether there is sufficient evidence for formal charges—a very low evidentiary standard—declined to indict the men, and they were freed. About 50 William Paterson students showed up in court to support their classmates. [...]
Melissa Kagle is one of three people who brought the race-discrimination complaint about Colgate to OCR. Kagle is a former assistant professor of educational studies at the school who, over the course of her last three years at the university, became a prominent critic of Colgate’s handling of sexual misconduct. (She left after being denied tenure in 2016 and now works at an education nonprofit.) Her co-complainants were minority students who’d been accused of assault or harassment, and to whom Kagle had become an informal adviser. Kagle viscerally understands the horror of rape because as a young woman she experienced it herself. But she told me that over the past several years, she’d become deeply concerned that in some cases fear of assault on campus was clouding people’s judgment and creating a reflex to presume guilt. In several cases that she’d come to know closely, at first by happenstance and then because minority men began to seek her out for assistance, “people believed something terrible happened when it hadn’t.”
Kagle believes that men of color—and especially foreign men of color, students from Africa and Asia—were uniquely defenseless when charged with sexual assault, typically lacking financial resources, a network of support, and an understanding of their rights. She told me that university administrators, in their zeal to address an issue that was a top priority of federal regulators, had gone after rumors and third-party reports of assaults, pressuring some female students to pursue complaints. I spoke with two women who made harassment complaints against a Rwandan student who was later expelled. One said she hadn’t wanted to make a complaint, but was told that it would help another woman feel safer; neither believed expulsion was the right outcome.
“We have laws and rules to make sure people’s rights aren’t violated. When you take away those protections, then you get what’s happening here,” Kagle said of Colgate. She also told me that she and her co-complainants are appealing OCR’s finding, noting that they believe the available numbers do demonstrate significant disparate treatment, and that in any case, the numbers alone do not tell the full story. Colgate declined to comment on the inquiry other than to say in a statement that it has “cooperated fully with the OCR investigation.” Atlantic
Simply how hard it is to clear your name, or even get a fair investigation, basically means the positive changes proposed cannot fail but change the rate of punishment and long process. You might be right on the rate of accusations ... there's more social and other dynamics at work ... and I'll just say the helpful thing is a false accuser will now have to face examination by someone working on behalf of the accused instead of just a campus administration investigator.
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On December 06 2018 09:14 IgnE wrote: you know dude youve brought up uranium one so much recently that i just tried to read through the wiki article on it, but i gave up trying to understand why you think its so significant in comparison to trump If you want to understand Uranium One, you need to read this piece by John Solomon. Frankly, his reporting is must-read right now anyway because he's someone who obviously has sources who are in the know regarding whatever investigation is currently taking place (and as an aside, he was getting ready to drop some really big news on Monday before Bush died over the weekend). Here's a brief summary of Uranium One:
1) At the time of the Uranium One deal, the FBI was aware of significant criminal activity (including bribes and kickbacks) regarding the Russian nuclear industry (reminder: the purchaser was the Russian nuclear industry);
2) Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder were among the people on the board whose decision it was to approve the deal;
3) Officials from the Russian nuclear industry gave the Clinton Foundation millions of dollars of donations at the time of the transaction, including a $500,000 speaking fee to Bill Clinton;
4) The DOJ (ie Holder) never notified the board responsible for approving the Uranium One deal of the ongoing criminal investigation into the Russian nuclear industry;
5) After the Uranium One deal was approved, the FBI seems to have buried the evidence that it collected on the matter, including prohibiting an FBI informant from speaking about what he learned; and
6) During the relevant time period, the FBI and the investigation into the Russian nuclear industry were run by a very familiar bunch of people: Mueller, Rosenstein, McCabe -- basically all of the same people investigating Trump.
This is just scratching the surface. But what distinguishes it from anything that might be remotely attributable to Trump is its scale and the sheer number of government officials that are implicated in it.
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On December 06 2018 07:48 xDaunt wrote: Oh look, Morales is pointing out the obvious. The US acts in its own rational self-interest instead of some misplaced sense of idealism.
And of course Morales's big ask at the end of his diatribe is for a multi-polar world -- because that is in his country's best interest.
EDIT: And GH, if you're going to make some asinine charge or insinuation of corruption, feel free to make the case. I fail to see how anybody (not playing a humorous angle) would cite that speech as a good speech on US imperialism. It's just a snide hit job on the US for our interventions, citing the same kind of idiotic international utopian urges that flip around to push to the US to "do something" when that's more favorable.
[translation]In no way is the United States interested in upholding Democracy. ... It would not have threatened Democratically elected governments, as it has done in Venezuela Maduro thanks Ecuador for connecting the "responsibility ... to hand over a fairer and more secure world to the following generation" with support for his Democratically elected government.
Do we have to have another Kosovo to prove all the multipolar discussions and internationally signed agreements don't prevent war and constrain evil? That speech was ridiculously stupid and self-serving.
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On December 06 2018 09:53 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 07:48 xDaunt wrote: Oh look, Morales is pointing out the obvious. The US acts in its own rational self-interest instead of some misplaced sense of idealism.
And of course Morales's big ask at the end of his diatribe is for a multi-polar world -- because that is in his country's best interest.
EDIT: And GH, if you're going to make some asinine charge or insinuation of corruption, feel free to make the case. I fail to see how anybody (not playing a humorous angle) would cite that speech as a good speech on US imperialism. It's just a snide hit job on the US for our interventions, citing the same kind of idiotic international utopian urges that flip around to push to the US to "do something" when that's more favorable. Show nested quote +[translation]In no way is the United States interested in upholding Democracy. ... It would not have threatened Democratically elected governments, as it has done in Venezuela Maduro thanks Ecuador for connecting the "responsibility ... to hand over a fairer and more secure world to the following generation" with support for his Democratically elected government. Do we have to have another Kosovo to prove all the multipolar discussions and internationally signed agreements don't prevent war and constrain evil? That speech was ridiculously stupid and self-serving.
I think I agree more with xDaunt that he was just saying what US officials wont. The judgements that his preference is fantastical is less important than the constant lying the US does to the world and itself and they got called out on.
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On December 06 2018 09:48 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 09:14 IgnE wrote: you know dude youve brought up uranium one so much recently that i just tried to read through the wiki article on it, but i gave up trying to understand why you think its so significant in comparison to trump If you want to understand Uranium One, you need to read this piece by John Solomon. Frankly, his reporting is must-read right now anyway because he's someone who obviously has sources who are in the know regarding whatever investigation is currently taking place (and as an aside, he was getting ready to drop some really big news on Monday before Bush died over the weekend). Here's a brief summary of Uranium One: 1) At the time of the Uranium One deal, the FBI was aware of significant criminal activity (including bribes and kickbacks) regarding the Russian nuclear industry (reminder: the purchaser was the Russian nuclear industry); 2) Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder were among the people on the board whose decision it was to approve the deal; 3) Officials from the Russian nuclear industry gave the Clinton Foundation millions of dollars of donations at the time of the transaction, including a $500,000 speaking fee to Bill Clinton; 4) The DOJ (ie Holder) never notified the board responsible for approving the Uranium One deal of the ongoing criminal investigation into the Russian nuclear industry; 5) After the Uranium One deal was approved, the FBI seems to have buried the evidence that it collected on the matter, including prohibiting an FBI informant from speaking about what he learned; and 6) During the relevant time period, the FBI and the investigation into the Russian nuclear industry were run by a very familiar bunch of people: Mueller, Rosenstein, McCabe -- basically all of the same people investigating Trump. This is just scratching the surface. But what distinguishes it from anything that might be remotely attributable to Trump is its scale and the sheer number of government officials that are implicated in it.
So what is your theory on why this large number of government officials suppressed all this evidence of the Clintons receiving a quid pro quo? Kickbacks that we don't know about? Pure political favor?
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On December 06 2018 13:45 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 09:48 xDaunt wrote:On December 06 2018 09:14 IgnE wrote: you know dude youve brought up uranium one so much recently that i just tried to read through the wiki article on it, but i gave up trying to understand why you think its so significant in comparison to trump If you want to understand Uranium One, you need to read this piece by John Solomon. Frankly, his reporting is must-read right now anyway because he's someone who obviously has sources who are in the know regarding whatever investigation is currently taking place (and as an aside, he was getting ready to drop some really big news on Monday before Bush died over the weekend). Here's a brief summary of Uranium One: 1) At the time of the Uranium One deal, the FBI was aware of significant criminal activity (including bribes and kickbacks) regarding the Russian nuclear industry (reminder: the purchaser was the Russian nuclear industry); 2) Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder were among the people on the board whose decision it was to approve the deal; 3) Officials from the Russian nuclear industry gave the Clinton Foundation millions of dollars of donations at the time of the transaction, including a $500,000 speaking fee to Bill Clinton; 4) The DOJ (ie Holder) never notified the board responsible for approving the Uranium One deal of the ongoing criminal investigation into the Russian nuclear industry; 5) After the Uranium One deal was approved, the FBI seems to have buried the evidence that it collected on the matter, including prohibiting an FBI informant from speaking about what he learned; and 6) During the relevant time period, the FBI and the investigation into the Russian nuclear industry were run by a very familiar bunch of people: Mueller, Rosenstein, McCabe -- basically all of the same people investigating Trump. This is just scratching the surface. But what distinguishes it from anything that might be remotely attributable to Trump is its scale and the sheer number of government officials that are implicated in it. So what is your theory on why this large number of government officials suppressed all this evidence of the Clintons receiving a quid pro quo? Kickbacks that we don't know about? Pure political favor? The real question is why wasn't the evidence from the investigation brought to the attention of the board. Once the deal was approved, the reason for suppressing the evidence is self-evident. It would be politically devastating for it to come out that the Obama administration green-lit the sale of 20% of America's uranium supply to a bunch of Russian crooks who were under investigation that led to prosecutions at the time of the sale. Holder sure as hell doesn't want that on his resume. Nor does Obama. Nor do the FBI and DOJ. With regards to the latter, just look at the lengths to which they are going to cover up their abusive FISA surveillance of Trump's campaign.
As to that real question, I really don't know what the answer is. I think that there are three possibilities. The first is that Holder is simply incompetent. The second is that Holder (and potentially others) got suckered by the Clintons into keeping the evidence away from the board. The third is that the Clintons promised or gave Holder (and potentially others) something to keep the evidence away from the board.
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