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On April 18 2007 09:06 XelNaga wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2007 09:04 Bockit wrote:
I'm sorry but to be a christian does not mean you have to be held to all christian theology.
And a "personal relationship with Jesus" is by definition a personal thing, a result of which being that he should be able to choose how he keeps his religion. You're right, I should have better defined what I said. To be a Christian means you have to hold to scriptural (biblical) teaching. Either way, what the person said wasn't holding true to scripture in any way. You can have the Jesus in your head, as you imagine him. And you can have the Jesus of the bible. And you know what? In the end, it's the Jesus of the bible you're going to have to deal with.
the jesus of the bible is just words.
different people interpret words differently.
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On April 18 2007 10:58 XelNaga wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2007 10:58 Hot_Bid wrote:AND I QUOTE NUMBERS 22:21 "And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab." Clearly the bible approves of baal being a homosexual. I think the entire forum can agree on this. Yeah that's real mature, keep going, you'll be a fan favourite.
ROFL, hot bid is a fan favorite here.
people like you are the reason why this nation pushes religion away more and more each day. youre a pushy, arrogant, close-minded, stupid fuck.
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United States43201 Posts
^^ That's what I was thinking, but I have the whole troll image hanging over me so thought I'd just explain he was talking shit politely.
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On April 18 2007 11:10 Kwark wrote:
^^ That's what I was thinking, but I have the whole troll image hanging over me so thought I'd just explain he was talking shit politely.
embrace your trollness with me!
lil.sis's retort was best ;p
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It amazes me how the same topic gets discussed over and over again like 2894243 times in tl.net alone yet whenever a thread with a slightest reference to religion gets created it starts all over again. In some ways it demonstrates the level of interest people have toward religion whether it be hate, longing or seeking for an answer...
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Braavos36379 Posts
yah but it sure is a fun read every time
pwn3d
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 18 2007 10:59 Hot_Bid wrote:
that's what the princes of moab said and that didn't stop baal need more cold resistance
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Question to XelNaga:
Christians believe that once you reach heaven, you'll be in the direct presence of God and pretty much worship him 24/7. There will be no sin and such and you spend eternity in fellowship with him. My question is, if being in God's presence is so great/wonderful/superfatasmic, why did Satan along with a staggering number of 1/3 of the angels fall? I know because of pride, but man, if he's in the direct presence of God shouldn't he be pretty much sinless? Does that mean if Christians reach heaven, there still is the possibility of falling from grace?
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Braavos36379 Posts
thats like asking what yellow would do with the golden mouse if he won it
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On April 18 2007 11:25 Hot_Bid wrote:
thats like asking what yellow would do with the golden mouse if he won it
anyday now...It could still happen
maybe
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On April 18 2007 11:03 Kwark wrote:
You can keep quoting. There are two defences given there. That they said it was 3 but meant pi give or take a little. Which in no way changes the fact that it says it is 3. My point was that the bible has been proven wrong. Your defence is that it has been proven wrong, but they didn't mean what it says. Nice going.
Or the second defence. The subject change mid sentence. You see, the first measurement is for one circle, the second, with absolutely no indication of the presence of a second, is for a completely different circle. If I were to say the cup was 10 across and 30 around you would assume i was describing the rim of the cup. Not so. What I actually mean was that the rim was 10 across and the base 30 around.
So, your defences against this appear to be in the case of the first, absolutely not a defence. My point was the bible says pi = 3. Your defence is it didn't mean that. And in the second, utter nonsense.
Try a bit harder.
Yes.. http://www.tektonics.org/lp/piwrong.html Really, I'll just keep quoting because people have already done the work. I looked it over, I agree with it.
On April 18 2007 11:24 pokeyAA wrote:
Question to XelNaga:
Christians believe that once you reach heaven, you'll be in the direct presence of God and pretty much worship him 24/7. There will be no sin and such and you spend eternity in fellowship with him. My question is, if being in God's presence is so great/wonderful/superfatasmic, why did Satan along with a staggering number of 1/3 of the angels fall? I know because of pride, but man, if he's in the direct presence of God shouldn't he be pretty much sinless? Does that mean if Christians reach heaven, there still is the possibility of falling from grace?
Couldn't tell you? I don't know. I imagine it would have something to do with the fact that Christians have the choice to obey or not, something satan didn't really have, he was kind of just tossed into it. I'd have to look into that more.
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That might be true, still 1/3 of the angels seem like a pretty big number to me. If its an forced obedience issue, it might make more sense to me then to say if he fell out of bitterness, anger, not pride though. Im not asking you to tell me a definite answer though haha, was just wondering if you know more about it than I obviously don't.
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On April 18 2007 11:48 pokeyAA wrote:
That might be true, still 1/3 of the angels seem like a pretty big number to me. If its an forced obedience issue, it might make more sense to me then to say if he fell out of bitterness, anger, not pride though. Im not asking you to tell me a definite answer though haha, was just wondering if you know more about it than I obviously don't.
Well yeah, I'd have to agree that while pride is probably viewed as the key issue. They were probably angry, bitter etc.
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dinosaur bones and the ancestry of humans is far from not being true.
where did the bones come from? i suppose someone planted billions of them all over the world in an effort to disrupt christianity?
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On April 18 2007 11:56 ZaplinG wrote:
dinosaur bones and the ancestry of humans is far from not being true.
where did the bones come from? i suppose someone planted billions of them all over the world in an effort to disrupt christianity?
They existed at the same time is what I was getting at.
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On April 18 2007 10:47 ZaplinG wrote:
and uh, what about the dinosaurs or the other skeletal remains of older human species?
and how do you refute evolution? that is directly disagreeing with the idea that god put everything on this earth.
Evolution is clearly a lie created by scientists to take over the world. Here is proof:
+ Show Spoiler +
Creationism wins again
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United States43201 Posts
On April 18 2007 11:36 XelNaga wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2007 11:03 Kwark wrote:
You can keep quoting. There are two defences given there. That they said it was 3 but meant pi give or take a little. Which in no way changes the fact that it says it is 3. My point was that the bible has been proven wrong. Your defence is that it has been proven wrong, but they didn't mean what it says. Nice going.
Or the second defence. The subject change mid sentence. You see, the first measurement is for one circle, the second, with absolutely no indication of the presence of a second, is for a completely different circle. If I were to say the cup was 10 across and 30 around you would assume i was describing the rim of the cup. Not so. What I actually mean was that the rim was 10 across and the base 30 around.
So, your defences against this appear to be in the case of the first, absolutely not a defence. My point was the bible says pi = 3. Your defence is it didn't mean that. And in the second, utter nonsense.
Try a bit harder. Yes.. http://www.tektonics.org/lp/piwrong.html Really, I'll just keep quoting because people have already done the work. I looked it over, I agree with it. Show nested quote +On April 18 2007 11:24 pokeyAA wrote:
Question to XelNaga:
Christians believe that once you reach heaven, you'll be in the direct presence of God and pretty much worship him 24/7. There will be no sin and such and you spend eternity in fellowship with him. My question is, if being in God's presence is so great/wonderful/superfatasmic, why did Satan along with a staggering number of 1/3 of the angels fall? I know because of pride, but man, if he's in the direct presence of God shouldn't he be pretty much sinless? Does that mean if Christians reach heaven, there still is the possibility of falling from grace? Couldn't tell you? I don't know. I imagine it would have something to do with the fact that Christians have the choice to obey or not, something satan didn't really have, he was kind of just tossed into it. I'd have to look into that more.
So, is the bible infallible or more or less correct.
Your original post was that it was all true.
I responded with the pi = 3.
You respond with "it's roughly true".
I respond with no, it really is 3.
You say it was a rough estimate.
Rough estimates do not equal truth. How can you not see this contradiction in your argument?!?!
You start off saying it is absolute truth and defend it as being more or less in the general area give or take some.
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On April 18 2007 11:56 ZaplinG wrote:
dinosaur bones and the ancestry of humans is far from not being true.
where did the bones come from? i suppose someone planted billions of them all over the world in an effort to disrupt christianity?
Oh crap, evolution debate! My quick thoughts before I duck out: Evolution happened. I'm pretty sure God is smart enough to be able to engineer something like that.
I am a Christian...but, unlike Xelnaga, I am not a Biblical literalist...there are many denominations and beliefs, etc. I admire him for being so adamant in his beliefs, and he is surely expressing true faith.
I have several problems with taking the Bible literally....here are some of them, in brief form:
1. The Bible, while written by those who supposively are writing the Word of God, still were humans. Humans have flaws. We have no way in distinguishing what was written by the Human and what was written 'directly' from God. Evidence of human 'bias' in the Bible is slightly more evident than one might believe...comparing the Old Testament with the New Testament shows a major shift in the way that God is viewed. This, in my opinion, is due to the common beliefs of the time written...a more unforgiving God versus a more merciful God (it isn't exactly that way, but that is a basic summary). While many things in the Bible might be written with Holy inspiration, the hand was still that of a human.
2. In alignment with the above statement, many traditions/practices in the Bible reflect not those of God but those of the culture at that time. For example, the whole conundrum with menstruation and cleansing yourself...in my opinion those aren't the Words of God.
3. If you knew everything in the world....you were God...then how could you explain to humans the process of DNA replication? The motion of the heavens? You can't. So, what do you do? You tell a fable of sorts (think Jesus and his fables that he used to teach lessons)...a story that helps people understand the concept but doesn't necessarily reflect the actual occurence (in my opinion this is what happened to Adam and Eve...I therefore believe in evolution (O GOD THE FLAMING IS COMING ><)).
4. You cannot solve every conflict or event in the world using the Bible...it simply isn't comprehensive enough. No book could be. There will always be gray areas...places where people have to interpret. The Bible has guidelines but not explanations for every event that you will encounter in your life.
So sum it up...I respect the Bible and take it as a guideline for how to live my life, but only loosely. I am not a Biblical literalist.
But I do believe in God and Jesus Christ. That is the one thing that makes the the same as all of you other Christians :D
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On April 18 2007 08:55 XelNaga wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2007 08:37 lil.sis wrote:
see that's exactly the kind of shit i'm talking about
i hope YOU don't go around calling yourself a Christian
judge not lest you be judged etc That's an interesting verse, mind quoting it? Well, I know where it is, in Matthew. You familiar with 2 Timothy 3:16? All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousnessInteresting verse isn't it? You know why I said that? Lets recap some of what he said. However, abusing anything is wrong. U can get drunk with ur friends, but its wrong to drink every day coz its ruining ur body.Okay, so you think it's okay to get drunk with your friends? Romans 13:13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousyGalations 5:19-21 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.Uh oh.. Did those verses just condemn being drunk in any situation? Yes, they did. What bible is he reading from? Not the same one I am... Moving along. U can have a girlfriend, perhaps even have sex before marriage if u really like her and feel its ok.Really eh? Where did you come up with this? What did Galations 5:19-21 just say? How about.. Hebrews 13:4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.1 Corinthians 7:2 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husbandMark 10:6-8 But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know GodI'm sorry to be so "judgmental", but there's a thing called "Sunday Christianity" and then there's a thing called a "personal relationship with Christ". What this kid said, at this point in time, he's a Sunday Christian. And until he gets his life right, he has no business going around saying he's a Christian (assuming that he is). Oh, and for all you people who don't understand. I compared his behavior to scripture and called him out on it. A little different than judging him because of my person opinion. If he's going to call himself a Christian, then he's expected to be held to Christian theology. And for that email, it's general correct in my experience with others.
Amen brother, good find of the Bible verses... I sometimes find myself in hard times, like in church I'm singing and praising and when I come back home I feel the urge to whack off which I know is bad and I've been doing this double life for 3 years, it's hard... need help plz!!
Also, during school, we learned about ancestry of humans and evolution to even life and I start to doubt but then I think about how our bodies are capable of fighting off diseases, and that so many things in life fit together, like our DNA, brain, sensing things, even things like urinating and taking a dump, you rid of your wastes which is a VERY good thing. Even bugs and other animals have feelings, I saw a little document and it was cool how gorillas had all these human like feelings and another document on this one huge gorilla that knows sign language and can say stuff, like I'm hungry, or I'm hungry, and even expressions for sadness.
This is a big topic
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On April 18 2007 12:08 Kwark wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2007 11:36 XelNaga wrote:On April 18 2007 11:03 Kwark wrote:
You can keep quoting. There are two defences given there. That they said it was 3 but meant pi give or take a little. Which in no way changes the fact that it says it is 3. My point was that the bible has been proven wrong. Your defence is that it has been proven wrong, but they didn't mean what it says. Nice going.
Or the second defence. The subject change mid sentence. You see, the first measurement is for one circle, the second, with absolutely no indication of the presence of a second, is for a completely different circle. If I were to say the cup was 10 across and 30 around you would assume i was describing the rim of the cup. Not so. What I actually mean was that the rim was 10 across and the base 30 around.
So, your defences against this appear to be in the case of the first, absolutely not a defence. My point was the bible says pi = 3. Your defence is it didn't mean that. And in the second, utter nonsense.
Try a bit harder. Yes.. http://www.tektonics.org/lp/piwrong.html Really, I'll just keep quoting because people have already done the work. I looked it over, I agree with it. On April 18 2007 11:24 pokeyAA wrote:
Question to XelNaga:
Christians believe that once you reach heaven, you'll be in the direct presence of God and pretty much worship him 24/7. There will be no sin and such and you spend eternity in fellowship with him. My question is, if being in God's presence is so great/wonderful/superfatasmic, why did Satan along with a staggering number of 1/3 of the angels fall? I know because of pride, but man, if he's in the direct presence of God shouldn't he be pretty much sinless? Does that mean if Christians reach heaven, there still is the possibility of falling from grace? Couldn't tell you? I don't know. I imagine it would have something to do with the fact that Christians have the choice to obey or not, something satan didn't really have, he was kind of just tossed into it. I'd have to look into that more. So, is the bible infallible or more or less correct. Your original post was that it was all true. I responded with the pi = 3. You respond with "it's roughly true". I respond with no, it really is 3. You say it was a rough estimate. Rough estimates do not equal truth. How can you not see this contradiction in your argument?!?! You start off saying it is absolute truth and defend it as being more or less in the general area give or take some.
Kwark, noone nows pi with absolute precision, and most likely noone will ever do.
3 is just a rougher estimate than 3,14.
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